If Worship on Sunday is wrong, then why do SDA parishes rent their churches to Traditional Christians?

The Liturgist · 2026-06-08T03:20:30-0500

On this forum Sunday-worshipping Christians are relentlessly criticized by some Adventist members, but meanwhile a great many SDA churches rent their premises out to Orthodox, Anglican and other traditional churches for use in Sunday worship.

If worship on the First Day is, as has been argued, “the mark of the beast” or some act of eschatological disloyalty or defiance to God, then how is it ethical for SDA congregations to charge rent and make money off of Christians worshipping in such a manner?

Indeed I attended a church that worshipped in an Adventist church this morning; I won’t say which church I attended or which Adventist church they worshipped in to preclude harassment, but it is quite common. The Adventists even made their social hall available, and a very friendly Adventist was present to assist the traditional denomination I visited in accessing the facilities, and he did so without commenting on their faith.

Also it was interesting to note that the main sanctuary featured a pipe organ, paraments and other fittings and was basically identical to any Presbyterian, Methodist or Baptist or low church Anglican parish from the mid 20th century; indeed its appearance strongly reminded me of the USAF Academy in Colorado Springs (albeit without the particularly lovely architecture of Skdmore Owings and Merrill, but the overall layout of the primary and secondary worship spaces was very much in keeping with it).

reddogs · 2026-06-08T05:04:03-0500

The Liturgist said:
On this forum Sunday-worshipping Christians are relentlessly criticized by some Adventist members, but meanwhile a great many SDA churches rent their premises out to Orthodox, Anglican and other traditional churches for use in Sunday worship.

If worship on the First Day is, as has been argued, “the mark of the beast” or some act of eschatological disloyalty or defiance to God, then how is it ethical for SDA congregations to charge rent and make money off of Christians worshipping in such a manner?

Indeed I attended a church that worshipped in an Adventist church this morning; I won’t say which church I attended or which Adventist church they worshipped in to preclude harassment, but it is quite common. The Adventists even made their social hall available, and a very friendly Adventist was present to assist the traditional denomination I visited in accessing the facilities, and he did so without commenting on their faith.

Also it was interesting to note that the main sanctuary featured a pipe organ, paraments and other fittings and was basically identical to any Presbyterian, Methodist or Baptist or low church Anglican parish from the mid 20th century; indeed its appearance strongly reminded me of the USAF Academy in Colorado Springs (albeit without the particularly lovely architecture of Skdmore Owings and Merrill, but the overall layout of the primary and secondary worship spaces was very much in keeping with it).

Christians must love each other and help one another as their fellow man...
1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

The Liturgist · 2026-06-08T05:25:59-0500

reddogs said:
Christians must love each other and help one another as their fellow man...
1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Indeed but, that doesn’t answer the question:

If it is a danger to our souls to be worshipping on Sunday, why rent a traditional church the worship space?

That doesn’t sound like helping, even if it was offered gratis. The fact that rent is charged that is proportionate to time and space utilization (at my local Adventist church between one traditional liturgical church that uses a conference room twice a month, and another that uses the chapel weekly, with the more frequent use of the larger chapel being more expensive) changes the equation.

If worship on Sunday is dangerous for our souls (and neither traditional church using the SDA building has regular Sabbath services, unlike the Eastern Orthodox, so its not a case of a denomination that is objectively keeping the Sabbath even while celebrating the Resurrection on the First Day), it seems like the proper thing for SDAs to do would be to not let out that space to other Christians but to insist that the building be closed except to like-minded denominations with compatible doctrine (Seventh Day Baptists perhaps?)

And to be clear, both traditional denominations that use the building are very liturgical churches that make use of iconography and prayer for the dead, and venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary as the Mother of God, and while neither are Roman Catholic or recognize Papal authority, they are otherwise very similar; indeed both of them even use Catholic-style vestments for clergy.

reddogs · 2026-06-08T06:12:29-0500

The Liturgist said:
Indeed but, that doesn’t answer the question:

If it is a danger to our souls to be worshipping on Sunday, why rent a traditional church the worship space?

That doesn’t sound like helping, even if it was offered gratis. The fact that rent is charged that is proportionate to time and space utilization (at my local Adventist church between one traditional liturgical church that uses a conference room twice a month, and another that uses the chapel weekly, with the more frequent use of the larger chapel being more expensive) changes the equation.

If worship on Sunday is dangerous for our souls (and neither traditional church using the SDA building has regular Sabbath services, unlike the Eastern Orthodox, so its not a case of a denomination that is objectively keeping the Sabbath even while celebrating the Resurrection on the First Day), it seems like the proper thing for SDAs to do would be to not let out that space to other Christians but to insist that the building be closed except to like-minded denominations with compatible doctrine (Seventh Day Baptists perhaps?)

And to be clear, both traditional denominations that use the building are very liturgical churches that make use of iconography and prayer for the dead, and venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary as the Mother of God, and while neither are Roman Catholic or recognize Papal authority, they are otherwise very similar; indeed both of them even use Catholic-style vestments for clergy.

My own church rents from our Lutheran brothers, and they are seeing the truth, and even asked what would happen if they decided to begin worshiping on Sabbath. Gods truth is unveil in many ways..

Freth · 2026-06-08T06:21:53-0500

The Liturgist said:
On this forum Sunday-worshipping Christians are relentlessly criticized by some Adventist members, but meanwhile a great many SDA churches rent their premises out to Orthodox, Anglican and other traditional churches for use in Sunday worship.

Many of the churches we own were purchased from other denominations as well. My own local SDA church was a Methodist church and has a huge pipe organ that sounds amazing. The church still has the stained glass from the former denomination, touting things we don't necessarily agree with. The same for my home town church which also has stained glass from another denomination.

Ministry Magazine (an SDA publication) wrote an article in 1998 concerning renting out our churches. My personal view is that Jesus would not look down on renting the church out for additional outreach. Whether Saturday or Sunday, the gospel is being preached.

My guestimation is that if one could put together some statistics on criticism, SDA would be at the top; receiving the most criticism on this forum. So much vitriol has been lobbed at us because we put the Biblical position above that of established tradition. Jesus had something to say about that in Matthew 15:1-9.

SDA present facts from a Biblical and historical viewpoint (fulfilled prophecy, for example). If those facts are not the truth then let it be shown on this forum so all can see the truth. Where facts are concerned, it isn't criticism, but simply facts taken personally as criticism. That's not to say there haven't been personal attacks lobbed from various sides, there have, but they have been addressed over time by the moderation team.

My personal conviction is that the truth needs to be known, and that as many as possible need to be reached so that they can know the truth. What truth? What is written in the Bible. If that steps on a few toes, then it's not me doing it, it's what's written in the Bible. In fact, I make it a point to let the verses I quote speak on their own without me adding much of my own words. I most often echo these Biblical truths in my posts. When my posts are criticized, it isn't me being criticized but what the Bible says, and so I don't take it personally.

Let's address that quote above from Jesus (Matthew 15:1-9). He made three important statements.

Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Full stop. I didn't say it. Jesus did. This is a foundational statement concerning the commandments of God.

God bless!

The Liturgist · 2026-06-08T07:23:10-0500

Freth said:
Whether Saturday or Sunday, the gospel is being preached.

So why are traditional Christians being criticized for worshipping on Sunday?

Also, is it really, from your perspective?

Let us consider the beliefs of the church I worshipped at this morning, in an SDA building (which was originally built for the SDA and was always an SDA building; this is a part of the US where Adventists were historically extremely numerous and the Methodists have not yet had to sell off their real estate):

Salvation by grace, involving faith, but not sola fide
Prima scriptura but not sola scriptura
That being said, we are not saved on account of our own virtue for we are inherently sinful and require the grace of the Holy Spirit in order to respond to the Gospel and be saved.
Theosis, or deification through grace, that is to say becoming by grace what Christ is by nature
The importance of Holy Tradition as an authoritative guide to Scriptural interpretation
The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
The importance of bishops in Apostolic Succession
The importance of the ecumenical synods as doctrinal standards
The baptism of infants
The real presence of Christ in the Eucharist
The veneration of the saints, especially the Theotokos, and a belief those saints are in Heaven presently, awake and conscious, alive in Christ, even those who have not yet been resurrected bodily such as the Holy Apostles
The veneration of the relics of the saints where they exist (in the case of the Theotokos, there are no bodily relics since this church, like the Roman Catholics, believes not only that she was sinless but that she was assumed bodily like St. Elijah and St. Moses)
The efficacy of prayer for the dead (they do not believe in purgatory but like my church do believe that prayer for the dead is efficacious in improving the eschatological outcome of the deceased)
The efficacy of intercessory prayer
The unity of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost
That Christ Himself shall sit in judgement over us, once, at the end of time
That He shall reign forever and ever, and not for 1,000 years only on this Earth
The Nicene Creed as the authoritative Symbol of Faith
Those who reject Him will not cease to exist

Given these substantial differences from SDA doctrine it’s difficult to say that the same Gospel is being preached in both churches, or between the church I attended and a fundamentalist Calvinist church, or between a fundamentalist Calvinist and the SDA; rather the three positions are three extreme points on a terrain. About the only belief that is held in common is a belief in the Trinity but even here there are differences, since for example the church I attended believes that the Ancient of Days is Christ (their beliefs are fairly similar to the Eastern Orthodox although differ in areas pertaining to some aspects of mystical theology and the exact condition of the soul after death).

Freth said:
My guestimation is that if one could put together some statistics on criticism, SDA would be at the top; receiving the most criticism on this forum

That may be true (although I doubt it; I think the Roman Catholics get the most criticism overall, and that’s not even counting criticism of the Roman Catholic denomination by Roman Catholics since as you may or may not have noticed the RCC is suffering from internal stability problems due to the disconnect between the elegant moral theology of John Paul II and Benedict XVI and the postmodern, Liberation-theology influenced views of Pope Francis and his successor Pope Leo XIV), but it is also certainly the case that Adventists also issue the most criticism of other denominations. I myself would not criticize Adventists at all were it not for the continual criticism of my denomination and our doctrines, up to and including denials of our historic existence and agency recently made by another of your co-religionists, who made an argument that Eastern Orthodox doctrine does not meaningfully differ from Roman Catholic doctrine (!) and that we are and always have been under the control of the Pope of Rome.

In response to such criticism, as well as the promulgation of inaccurate statements about the history of the early church (objectively inaccurate, according to the consensus of scholars at all major accredited universities, from all other denominations and the archaeological and documentary evidence itself), I have felt morally compelled to reply. Likewise many of my Protestant friends have been frustrated by Adventist criticism of their denominations even as Adventists quote the founders of their denominations selectively.

Freth said:
My personal conviction is that the truth needs to be known, and that as many as possible need to be reached so that they can know the truth. What truth? What is written in the Bible.

According to the Gospel of John, Christ is the Truth (Scripture is accurate only if read correctly, as an icon of Christ, for He is Truth, and cannot be false, but Scripture can be quoted out of context in support of false doctrines, but if one does that, it ceases to be an icon of Christ our True God), so even there we are presented with a fundamental disagreement.

reddogs · 2026-06-08T07:25:59-0500

The Liturgist said:
So why are traditional Christians being criticized for worshipping on Sunday?

Also, is it really, from your perspective?

Let us consider the beliefs of the church I worshipped at this morning, in an SDA building (which was originally built for the SDA and was always an SDA building; this is a part of the US where Adventists were historically extremely numerous and the Methodists have not yet had to sell off their real estate):

Salvation by grace, involving faith, but not sola fide

Prima scriptura but not sola scriptura

That being said, we are not saved on account of our own virtue for we are inherently sinful and require the grace of the Holy Spirit in order to respond to the Gospel and be saved.

Theosis, or deification through grace, that is to say becoming by grace what Christ is by nature

The importance of Holy Tradition as an authoritative guide to Scriptural interpretation

The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

The importance of bishops in Apostolic Succession

The importance of the ecumenical synods as doctrinal standards

The baptism of infants

The real presence of Christ in the Eucharist

The veneration of the saints, especially the Theotokos, and a belief those saints are in Heaven presently, awake and conscious, alive in Christ, even those who have not yet been resurrected bodily such as the Holy Apostles

The veneration of the relics of the saints where they exist (in the case of the Theotokos, there are no bodily relics since this church, like the Roman Catholics, believes not only that she was sinless but that she was assumed bodily like St. Elijah and St. Moses)

The efficacy of prayer for the dead (they do not believe in purgatory but like my church do believe that prayer for the dead is efficacious in improving the eschatological outcome of the deceased)

The efficacy of intercessory prayer

The unity of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost

That Christ Himself shall sit in judgement over us, once, at the end of time

That He shall reign forever and ever, and not for 1,000 years only on this Earth

The Nicene Creed as the authoritative Symbol of Faith

Those who reject Him will not cease to exist

Given these substantial differences from SDA doctrine it’s difficult to say that the same Gospel is being preached in both churches, or between the church I attended and a fundamentalist Calvinist church, or between a fundamentalist Calvinist and the SDA; rather the three positions are three extreme points on a terrain. About the only belief that is held in common is a belief in the Trinity but even here there are differences, since for example the church I attended believes that the Ancient of Days is Christ (their beliefs are fairly similar to the Eastern Orthodox although differ in areas pertaining to some aspects of mystical theology and the exact condition of the soul after death).

That may be true (although I doubt it; I think the Roman Catholics get the most criticism overall, and that’s not even counting criticism of the Roman Catholic denomination by Roman Catholics since as you may or may not have noticed the RCC is suffering from internal stability problems due to the disconnect between the elegant moral theology of John Paul II and Benedict XVI and the postmodern, Liberation-theology influenced views of Pope Francis and his successor Pope Leo XIV), but it is also certainly the case that Adventists also issue the most criticism of other denominations. I myself would not criticize Adventists at all were it not for the continual criticism of my denomination and our doctrines, up to and including denials of our historic existence and agency recently made by another of your co-religionists, who made an argument that Eastern Orthodox doctrine does not meaningfully differ from Roman Catholic doctrine (!) and that we are and always have been under the control of the Pope of Rome.

In response to such criticism, as well as the promulgation of inaccurate statements about the history of the early church (objectively inaccurate, according to the consensus of scholars at all major accredited universities, from all other denominations and the archaeological and documentary evidence itself), I have felt morally compelled to reply. Likewise many of my Protestant friends have been frustrated by Adventist criticism of their denominations even as Adventists quote the founders of their denominations selectively.

According to the Gospel of John, Christ is the Truth (Scripture is accurate only if read correctly, as an icon of Christ, for He is Truth, and cannot be false, but Scripture can be quoted out of context in support of false doctrines, but if one does that, it ceases to be an icon of Christ our True God), so even there we are presented with a fundamental disagreement.

Because they are breaking Gods Commandments, and He declares if you love Him to keep them...

The Liturgist · 2026-06-08T07:51:47-0500

reddogs said:
Because they are breaking Gods Commandments, and He declares if you love Him to keep them...

It seems like the correct response should be for Adventists to push for SDA churches to not rent out space for Sunday worship, based on what you’re saying.

Your church does prohibit its members from selling alcohol, after all, even if they do not consume it, at least according to the baptismal vow contained in this document:

https://documents.adventistarchives.org/Resources/ChurchManuals/CM1986.pdf

By the way did I mention that the church in question uses fermented wine in their Sunday worship?

bèlla · 2026-06-08T07:58:48-0500

They're doing it for income. An empty building with no activity on a day when christians gather is a wasted opportunity. Myles Munroe used to rent his building too. It was the largest in Bahamas at the time and purchased to generate revenue when they weren't operating. Everything isn't religiously motivated.

~bella

SabbathBlessings · 2026-06-08T08:04:43-0500

bèlla said:
They're doing it for income. An empty building with no activity on a day when christians gather is a wasted opportunity. Myles Munroe used to rent his building too. It was the largest in Bahamas at the time and purchased to generate revenue when they weren't operating. Everything isn't religiously motivated.

~bella

Would you happen to have a quote of an Adventist who rents out their church stating this? I know my church temporarily helped out a local Sunday church when their church had a fire and had no where to go for their congregation to meet until it was fixed. I believe my pastor did so as the first motivation to love thy neighbor.

Also what is different with the Adventist church than most churches is that the pastor/church receives almost no money from tithes. All church tithes go to the conference. Money is never a motivation for an SDA pastor because they make the same salary if they have 30 people in the congregation or 1000 and its a very modest salary to say the least. They have to pay church expenses by any additional offerings so many do struggle, but God is good.

bèlla · 2026-06-08T08:09:54-0500

SabbathBlessings said:
Would you happen to have a quote of an Adventist who rents out their church stating this?

No I don't. But why don't you sit with an elder, board member or executive pastor and ask how they generate revenue if you don't like the answer? I'm not SDA and your practices aren't my concern. Don't they publish an annual report?

~bella

SabbathBlessings · 2026-06-08T08:15:55-0500

bèlla said:
No I don't. But why don't you sit with an elder, board member or executive pastor and ask how they generate revenue if you don't like the answer? I'm not SDA and your practices aren't my concern. Don't they publish an annual report?

~bella

I have, which is why I asked you the question, since you claimed you knew the motivation of why they do this all I was doing is asking you to show how you arrived to your conclusion.

bèlla · 2026-06-08T08:34:32-0500

SabbathBlessings said:
I have, which is why I asked you the question, since you claimed you knew the motivation of why they do this all I was doing is asking you to show how you arrived to your conclusion.

I stated the probable reason it occurs.There's numerous factors contributing to the suggestion. Including the average age of SDA members in the US at 49 coupled with declining numbers and a poor economy. Renting space is a common practice with churches to offset the financial demands on the congregation. Some are merging or renting space from one another to survive.

~bella

SabbathBlessings · 2026-06-08T08:37:24-0500

bèlla said:
I stated the probable reason it occurs.There's numerous factors contributing to the suggestion. Including the average age of SDA members in the US at 49 coupled with declining numbers and a poor economy. Renting space is a common practice with churches to offset the financial demands on the congregation. Some are merging or renting space from one another to survive.

~bella

I guess probable was accidently left out...which is why I asked if you had some sort of inside information the rest of us insiders don't have

They're doing it for income

Everything isn't religiously motivated.

I added this after you responded to my post so you may not have seen it.

Also what is different with the Adventist church than most churches is that the pastor/church receives almost no money from tithes. All church tithes go to the conference. Money is never a motivation for an SDA pastor because they make the same salary if they have 30 people in the congregation or 1000 and its a very modest salary to say the least, they receive no personal money from the offering plate, unlike most churches. They have to pay church expenses by any additional offerings by members, so many SDA churches do struggle, but God is good.

And to add SDA churches do not actively seek to rent their church to other denominations. I believe it only happens when Sunday churches approach an SDA church for temporary situations like our church did when another church burned down and asked for our help until their church was rebuilt.

reddogs · 2026-06-08T08:50:13-0500

I guess they missed the part about helping others, I think it was called something like 'the good Samaritan'.....

BobRyan · 2026-06-08T08:56:21-0500

The Liturgist said:
On this forum Sunday-worshipping Christians are relentlessly criticized by some Adventist members

for what?
For attending a worship service on Sunday?? No!

Why not actually pay attention to the discussion?

The Liturgist said:
, but meanwhile a great many SDA churches rent their premises out to Orthodox, Anglican and other traditional churches for use in Sunday worship.

Indeed. Since We have no complaint about having a worship service on Tuesday, or Sunday, or Wednesday or Thursday.

It works better when you pay attention to the discussion and the actual differences.

The Liturgist said:
It seems like the correct response should be for Adventists to push for SDA churches to not rent out space for Sunday worship

If one is not paying attention , I guess that could be the foggy view of the subject from a great distance

holding the facts at such a distance is not helping your case.

hint, SDAs themselves have worship services on Sundays for special occasions.

SabbathBlessings · 2026-06-08T09:13:57-0500

GUIDELINES FOR FACILITY USE OF SDA CHURCHES

The facilities of the local Seventh-day Adventist Church are intended to be the evangelistic center in the community for the proclamation of the remnant message, for worship, nurturing, and fellowship of the believers and the needs of the congregation for weddings, youth activities, and public evangelistic meetings. Since the long-term shared facility agreement could frequently conflict with the needs and purposes of the local congregation, such agreements are discouraged. In cases where nonAdventist evangelical congregations face an emergency and the local congregation desires to assist by leasing, renting, or loaning the use of the Adventists church, the following steps shall be taken: All use agreements for church and school use by another organization must be in writing and approved by the local board and submitted to the appropriate Legal Association of the Conference for their final approval.

MarkRohfrietsch · 2026-06-08T10:43:59-0500

reddogs said:
My own church rents from our Lutheran brothers, and they are seeing the truth, and even asked what would happen if they decided to begin worshiping on Sabbath. Gods truth is unveil in many ways..

Some Lutheran Synods have deviated so far from our confessions and Scripture that many of our Confessional Churches no longer consider them "Lutheran" or even Christian. I would say, they, at the very best, are not very Lutheran.

MarkRohfrietsch · 2026-06-08T10:57:49-0500

Freth said:
Many of the churches we own were purchased from other denominations as well. My own local SDA church was a Methodist church and has a huge pipe organ that sounds amazing. The church still has the stained glass from the former denomination, touting things we don't necessarily agree with. The same for my home town church which also has stained glass from another denomination.

Ministry Magazine (an SDA publication) wrote an article in 1998 concerning renting out our churches. My personal view is that Jesus would not look down on renting the church out for additional outreach. Whether Saturday or Sunday, the gospel is being preached.

My guestimation is that if one could put together some statistics on criticism, SDA would be at the top; receiving the most criticism on this forum. So much vitriol has been lobbed at us because we put the Biblical position above that of established tradition. Jesus had something to say about that in Matthew 15:1-9.

SDA present facts from a Biblical and historical viewpoint (fulfilled prophecy, for example). If those facts are not the truth then let it be shown on this forum so all can see the truth. Where facts are concerned, it isn't criticism, but simply facts taken personally as criticism. That's not to say there haven't been personal attacks lobbed from various sides, there have, but they have been addressed over time by the moderation team.

My personal conviction is that the truth needs to be known, and that as many as possible need to be reached so that they can know the truth. What truth? What is written in the Bible. If that steps on a few toes, then it's not me doing it, it's what's written in the Bible. In fact, I make it a point to let the verses I quote speak on their own without me adding much of my own words. I most often echo these Biblical truths in my posts. When my posts are criticized, it isn't me being criticized but what the Bible says, and so I don't take it personally.

Let's address that quote above from Jesus (Matthew 15:1-9). He made three important statements.

Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Full stop. I didn't say it. Jesus did. This is a foundational statement concerning the commandments of God.

God bless!

Why would the SDA be at the top; receiving the most criticism on this forum.

This sends the message that your group are hypocrites, saying one thing but doing what you tell everyone else, that it is wrong to do. Many in your group have implied and even told us that we are either second rate Christians, or on the road to condemnation.

This should explain why most of Christianity see SDA theology as falling somewhere in the spectrum between miss-guided and confused to that of an over zealous cult.

SabbathBlessings · 2026-06-08T11:10:03-0500

Can you imagine how most the world felt when the messengers and prophets was trying to get people back to God's Word.

2 Chron 36:15 And the Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. 16 But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

I have never read one post where SDA's condemned anyone. What I see is trying to get people to fear the LORD Exo20:20 and keep His commandments Ecc12:13-14 Rev14:6-12, instead of having their fear of the LORD taught by men's traditions making the word of God void. Isa 29:13 Mat15:3-14 which Jesus condemned.

If Worship on Sunday is wrong, then why do SDA parishes rent their churches to Traditional Christians?

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