Adventist view on Hell/Hades the Lake of Fire

Adventist believe the "lake of fire" described in Revelation is the ultimate destiny of the wicked. It is the Hell/Hades we find where the wicked will meet their ultimate fate and are punished with eternal separation from God as they perish. The lake of fire is the Second Death from which the wicked meet their end which scripture shows happens at the end of the thousand years of the Millennium..

Revelation 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The wicked perish in the fire from God after the thousand year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven, all those who have not received the mark of the beast or its image scripture shows.

We see the words of Christ Himself of what will happen to the wicked at the end in the lake of fire/Hell/Hades...

Matthew 7:13 King James Version (KJV)
"13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

Matthew 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
"28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matthew 13:40-42 King James Version (KJV)
"40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
"41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

We have to repent or we shall perish as is see here, and how will the wicked perish is shown above, thrown into the lake of fire...

Luke 13:3 King James Version (KJV)
"3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

And Christ gives us eternal life...

John 3:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
"14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The wicked will be separated from God forever and ever, it is the end of sin and sinners as they will be destroyed and perish in the lake of fire.

But the saints have nothing to fear, Christ will take the saints to heaven when He comes at the Second Coming as He promised.

John 14:1-3
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So there has been much confusion brought in by the pagan Greek ideas mixed in, but Adventist believe that
the lake of fire that the Bible speaks of, is it what Christian call 'Hell' or 'Hades'. Christ gives us some clues when He said 'As in the Days of Lot', we find it in Luke 17:28.
Luke 17:28
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

It was just another day, and was starting as usual, and folks were waking up and eating their morning meal and having their morning beverage and doing everything they did every other morning, it looked like another great day and then suddenly everything changed. We see it in the next part of the text:
Luke 17:29-30
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

So what did Jesus mean by this. Well lets look what was happening 'in the days of Lot'.
10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.
11 Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from the other.
12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward Sodom.
13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly.

Lot had picked out a place to settle in and it looks like a good choice with good sources of refreshing water and nice vegetation all around, but there was a problem. The people there it says 'were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly.' and as a result of that, after years of patience God sent two angels to Sodom and we know how they were treated by the people of Sodom. The angels went to Lot’s home. Abraham meanwhile, was certainly praying for Lot who was his nephew because God had clued him in that Sodom was doomed. And the angels told Lot to basically, get out of town, and escape for your life, and dont look behind you, escape to the mountains lest you be,” what? The angels say to get out lest you be 'consumed', lest you be burnt up. We see it in Genisis

12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

You see Lot went and grabbed his family and the Bible says he got out of town and the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven. It rained down and it destroyed the city in basically a lake of fire, not the one that will be at the end, but Christ was giving a very true picture of what will happen at the end. Jesus speaks also of Noah's day with the same warning He gives about Lot and his family in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Matthew 24:36-39
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The wages of sin for the wicked is they perish in the lake of fire, which is the final place for the wicked and sinners before the Lord, which is the hell we are shown by scripture. Now the destruction of the wicked is said to be "everlasting" or "eternal." Some have assumed that the wicked will burn in hellfire for eternity, but even in our courts that would not be considered 'just' and God wouldnt do that.

Jesus said: "The chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire" which we know are the same as the fires/smoke given in Revelations descriptions of the same event. .

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Luke 3:17
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

The fact is that an eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out as we find same expression is used in Jude concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha.

Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

In this use for the fire in the destruction of the wicked of 'unquenchable', 'eternal' 'everlasting', most people today are applying modern definitions without understanding their context.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not burning today, yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we are told that it was an example of something, lets look..
2 Peter 2:6
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Sodom and Gomorrah suffered a punishment of 'eternal fire' . But the wicked people in those cities are not still burning. Those cities and their inhabitants were reduced to ashes. The eternal fire which brought Sodom to ashes is an example of what will finally happen to the wicked. So the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. This is a eternal fire as like Sodom and Gomorrha.

The Liturgist said:

And once again we find an Adventist doctrine which differs from the plain meaning of Scripture as understood by most Christians. “And their worm dieth not,” that is to say, the torment of those would be unending.

But the actual Patristic interpretation, of the early Christians who gave us the Nicene Creed - is enlightening and consistent with Scripture.

God is infinitely loving, and is likened in Scripture to a consuming fire. Since He will be physically present, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, in the World to Come, this would be an unbearable torment for those who hate him, since their hatred will cause them to experience his love as wrath, and thus as a final mercy God will send them to the outer darkness. However, as St. John Chrysostom, the greatest Christian preacher since the Apostles, one unmatched since (at best Jonathan Edwards or Martin Luther only approach his skill; he has never been equalled let alone exceeded) pointed out, knowledge as to what one was missing out in the life of the world to come would be the ultimate torment, but it would not be enough to cause those who are truly hateful to change their mind.

Hence the exquisite observation from CS Lewis that the gates of Hell are locked on the inside.

Click to expand...

Well lets take a closer look and see what we find...

Mark 9:43-48
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

If this language had never been used before the New Testament, we would have nothing to compare and one would say this is a imagery of eternal torment. But this expression was one which was well known and understood by those whom Christ was addressing. And was used by Isaiah, Ezekiel and we see also Jeremiah who frequently used the figure of the undying worm and quenchless fire. Lets look..

Jeremiah 17:27
But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

But is it still burning today, no it is not. So we need to read and see how the Bible uses the word "quench." It does not mean fire that will never go out. Look and see what Isaiah says of that fire that cant be quenched, which they cant deliver themselves from..

Isaiah 47:14
Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.

After it has accomplished its work of destruction, that fire will go out. The eternal fire burns up eternally, so the wicked will die forever. Even Satan, the root of evil, is finally consumed. Ezekiel speaks of unquenchable fire in a similar manner.

Ezekiel 20:47-48
47 And say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the Lord; Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therein.
48 And all flesh shall see that I the Lord have kindled it: it shall not be quenched.

This is the language from which the expression in Mark is borrowed, it is a eternal fire that no man can quench, but like Sodom and Gomorrah, it goes out once it has consumed the object of its flame.

Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

If we were supposed to take "eternal fire" as meaning it would be on fire burning forever, then those cities would still be burning today. So are they, of course not. This means that the results of the fire is eternal; those cities were consumed and have never been rebuilt and will never be.

When it comes to the unquenchable fire that scripture speaks about that burns the wicked, need to read fully what scripture says. Does it mean it will never go out? Of course it doesn't. To quench means to extinguish or put out. No one will be able to put out the fire of hell. That is the strange fire of God. No one will be able to escape from it by extinguishing it.

So we see the same for the gates of Jerusalem...
Jeremiah 17:27
But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

The fire of the Lord cannot be quenched by man, the flames will burn until there is nothing left. Paul simplifies it further with these words: "
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"2 Thessalonians 1:8

In the next verse, Paul tells us what the punishment is. "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." 2 Thessalonians 1:9.

So the punishment is everlasting destruction from which there will be no resurrection or hope of life. and this type of fire will burn until it consumes as punishment, those experience this vengeance of eternal fire.

We need to study Gods Word and look at history and see how the idea of the eternal punishment of the wicked, got into the church from pagan Greek thought and mistranslations of the Greek. Many then come around and say that if the judgment of the wicked is not forever, then salvation of the saints is not forever, because the term of forever is used of both. The adversary then uses this confusion and subtly step by step puts in his deceptions, and brings the lie that there is an escape to the judgment of the wicked. They can escape it by doing a little time in the fires of hell which he has already distorted and then come to heaven purified by it.

We have to study and understand what is meant by the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades/Hell and see how it got twisted into this idea of a fiery underworld with Satan in charge. Its not hard to find where some of the pagan ideas came into the church that caused much of the confusion. Lets start with this idea of Purgatory and the Greek ideas that came in.

Purgatory as a doctrine teaches that a Christian's soul must burn in purgatory after death until all of their sins have been purged. To speed up the purging process, money could be paid to a priest so he could pray and have special masses for an earlier release, and much money was made with this doctrine. Purgatory is given as a way that no matter how sinful or unbelieving, when you die, you go to Purgatory and get things sorted out and finally get to heaven, so no acceptance of Christ is needed, you can buy your way in. But is it in the Bible, if you look it doesnt show it anywhere, so where did it come from. It comes from apostasy, it is a corrupt pagan doctrine, which was allowed into the church.

This pagan idea began creeping into the church around the end of the sixth century, and it has no scriptural support. In fact, Jesus warned us about this pagan practice in Matthew 23:14 when He spoke of those who devoured widows houses and made long prayers for a pretense. Psalm 49:6-7 tells us that a person couldn't redeem a loved one, even if such a place did exist: "They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:"
Peter addresses this issue in Acts 8:20 when he says, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." God's word is clearly against the doctrine of purgatory.

The Greeks, as in some measure the Egyptians before them, created myths of the afterlife which spread throughout the Hellenistic world, and even into words which were used when the Hebrew text was translated into the Greek. Scripture clearly rejects the Greek notion of the immortality of the soul disembodied from the here and now as spirit beings, and early Christians affirmed the resurrection of the body just as Lazuras was resurrected by Christ. So there is no place for a underworld depicted in Greek myths or place of cleansing by fire such as purgotary where spirit beings are left till they are ready to be reunited with God, it comes from other origins which we shall see.

Purgatory as a transitional condition has from many sources, a origin from the pagan belief of caring for the dead and praying for them, and to the belief that prayer for the dead contributed to their afterlife purification. Pagan tradition created this place of purgatory which leaves hope after death for the wicked, who, at the time of their death, are unrepentant and cling to their love of sin.

In Egypt, substantially the same doctrine of purgatory was taught as in modern times and its priests created grand funerals and masses for the dead, along with celebration of prayer and other services for the soul of the dead. The priest who officiated at the burial service was selected from the grade of Pontiffs who wore the leopard skin; but various other rites were performed by one of the minor priests to the mummies, previous to their being lowered into the pit of the tomb after that ceremony. They practiced elaborate ceremonies to prepare the pharaohs for their next life, constructing massive pyramids and other elaborate tombs filled with luxuries the deceased were supposed to need in the hereafter. The famous Book of the Dead, a collection of ancient Egyptian funerary and ritual texts, describes in great detail how to meet the challenges of the afterlife. The pagan Egyptian belief was when the body died, parts of its soul known as ka (body double) and the ba (personality) would go to the Kingdom of the Dead. While the soul dwelt in the Fields of Aaru, Osiris demanded work as restitution for the protection he provided. Statues were placed in the tombs to serve as substitutes for the deceased.

The Egyptian belief in the immortality of the soul existed centuries before Judaism, Hellenism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam. According to Herodotus, eventually the Greeks adopted from the Egyptians the belief in the immortality of the soul. He wrote: 'The Egyptians also were the first who asserted the doctrine that the soul of man is immortal . . . This opinion, some among the Greeks have at different periods of time adopted as their own.' The Greek philosopher Socrates (470-399 B. C.) traveled to Egypt to consult the Egyptians on their teachings on the immortality of the soul. Upon his return to Greece, he imparted this teaching to his most famous pupil, Plato.......

In Greece the doctrine of a purgatory was spread through the Greek mystery religions and even was spoken by one of its major philosophers. Plato, speaking of the future judgment of the dead, holds out the hope of final deliverance for all, but maintains that, of "those who are judged," some must first "proceed to a subterranean place of judgment, where they shall sustain the punishment they have deserved." The ancient Greeks sacrificed on the thirteenth day (after death) to Mercury as the conductor of the dead, they also had sacrifice which, according to Plato, "was offered for the living and the dead, and was supposed to free them from all the evils to which the wicked are liable when they have left this world.

In ancient Rome, the pagan priests also picked up and spread purgatory to the pagans, but as a belief in the early church it was not immediately picked up. From earliest times Greek religious beliefs were a strong influence in Italy, and the Graeco-Roman world was essentially one in its religious and philosophic views of the afterlife. There was no mention of the doctrine during the first two centuries of the church, it has no basis in scripture, the apostles did not teach it, nor did Christ. In short, it is clearly a deception brought in by the adversary which then spread throughout the church.

The Liturgist said:

Precisely. Unquenched - that is to say, unending. And the nature of the undying worm, since God does not create torments (this would be contrary to His nature as being infinitely good and loving) is the human worm of sinful desire and hatred, which manifests in the form of resentment for and regret at not having the joys which are experienced by those in Paradise.

This directly refutes the possibility of Annhilationism, which would require a dying worm, since the act of Annhilation is quenching per se, that is to say, the quenching of life, but such a quenching, while those who were tormented in the Outer Darkness would surely desire it, would be inconsistent with divine love.

Click to expand...

Well lets look at the fire in which the wicked perish, eternal fire which brings the Second Death in the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out as we find same expression is used in Jude concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha. "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 7.

In this use for the fire of "eternal" "everlasting" many are applying modern definitions without reference to their ancient contextual usage and violates one of the most fundamental rules of interpretation.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning today, yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we are told that it was an example of something. So what example is it of?

"And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly." 2 Peter 2:6.

The eternal fire which brought Sodom to ashes is an example of what will finally happen to the wicked. So the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. This is a eternal fire as like Sodom and Gomorrha they will be no more as it will burn the wicked to ashes.

The Liturgist said:

Of course it doesn’t mean what it says, why would it literally mean what it says?



Your post (a) assumes that we traditional Christians have not read the Scriptural verses in question which is wrong and insulting, (b) assumes that the Adventist interpretation is the only obvious interpretation of those verses (in fact, I don’t see how you can derive your doctrine from them without the external reference of documents believed to be infallible inspired prophecy) and also, very specifically, (c) the use of the phrase “wicked” is problematic.

The fact that you’re talking about the burning of the wicked appears to suggest that your denomination does not recognize the Scriptural truth that all men are wicked; those who are damned are merely those who reject the forgiveness offered by Christ our True God. This again points to works righteousness and legalism.

We are not saved according to our own merits, but rather, we are saved by grace, through faith, with the righteous works we perform being enabled by God the Holy Ghost, not otherwise being possible (indeed it would not be possible for us to consent to become Christians and receive Baptism were it not for the Holy Ghost overriding our corruption, so that we might be baptized in Christ and put on our Christ, our sins being washed away in the Jordan and remitted through the reception of His Body and Blood in the Holy Eucharist.

Click to expand...

Well, let me ask you this. Do the wicked get eternal life as if it is eternal or unquenchable burning, then they are still being kept alive forever. Of course not. We see clearly from Christ.
John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

So if you believe you have eternal life, otherwise you perish, Christ declares it.

The Liturgist said:

Not quite, since they have died once but remained conscious.

You see, Annhilationism only makes sense as an interpretation of the Second Death verse you quoted if one also believes in “Soul Sleep”, that is to say that those who have reposed in Christ or died an unbeliever are not now conscious but disembodied (except in the case of those taken up to heaven bodily, such as the Holy Prophets St. Moses and St. Elias, also known as St. Elijah, and Our Glorious Lady Theotokos and Ever Virgin Mary, who according to authoritative Church Tradition (2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2:37, 1 Corinthians 11:2) was taken up bodily, which explains why we have no relics of her, but do have relics of everyone else from the early church, even those who were devoured by animals (since devouring destroys the body but does not remove it from this reality) such as St. Ignatius of Antioch, the disciple of St. John the Beloved Disciple fed to lions in the Coliseum around 15 years or so after the repose of his teacher, the theologian, evangelist and author of the Apocalypse also known as Revelation.

Click to expand...

So they have eternal life, of course not.

The Liturgist said:

That’s a fool’s errand since traditional Christians believe in the forgiveness of the wicked, and the ancient Greeks believed everyone was effectively damned to the underworld (hence the Gospel being received by them as very good news), a few similar to the Sadducean rejection of the Resurrection), and since Christian Eschatology is defined in the New Testament including the eternal forgiveness of the wicked, but also the eternal suffering of those who do not engage in metanoia (translated as repentence - but the word literally means “change your mind”) and accept the love and forgiveness of God.

It is impossible to study in Scripture something that is not defined.

Now Adventist Annhilationism would itself not be a huge problem were it not also for legalism, the idea that those being annhilated are wicked and those not being annihilated have avoided wickedness and are morally superior by their own merits. This creates a direct soteriological incompatibility with the idea of Sola Gratia (salvation by God’s grace alone) which is the unifying constant that unites Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants and which was established as definitive, along with the unity of the Deity and Humanity in Christ and the rejection of the idea of humans being able to save themselves, and the status of the Blessed Virgin Mary as Theotokos, at the Third Ecumenical Synod in Ephesus in 433 AD (which dealt primarily with Nestorius, who claimed that the human and divine natures in Christ were divided to the point of being separate hypostases, or underlying realities, or even separate persons, and that because of that one could not refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary as Theotokos) but secondarily with Pelagius; fortunately unlike Nestorius, Pelagius was not a major bishop, and Pelagius did not persecute anyone with violence as far as I am aware, but he did teach the major doctrinal error that we are capable of being righteous and saving ourselves with our own works by following in the example of Christ (this belief is, not coincidentally, the foundational idea of several non-Trinitarian forms of Christianity such as Unitarianism and the J/W sect ,which also falsely claims that Jesus Christ is St. Michael the Archangel; if one believes that Christ is a messenger than it makes sense to assume His salvation is in the form of a message to be followed rather than in the form of actual salvific grace freely given; insofar as Christ left a message it can be heard only with grace and is received only subsequent to salvation, since before the action of the Holy Spirit upon us we are depraved and would never chose Christ willingly, as Luther correctly pointed out - in saying this my Lutheran friends @ViaCrucis @MarkRohfrietsch and @Ain't Zwinglian might be interested to note I don’t regard it as a monergist but rather as a synergist perspective, since I believe a divine synergy occurs once one positively responds to this divine grace, but because the essential idea is the same and there is a shared belief in total depravity and that human wickedness precludes reception of the Gospel without the action of the Holy Spirit to open our eyes to it, or our receiving Baptism as infants, which predisposes us to such cooperation from infancy, hence the importance of the baptism of infants, that perhaps what we Orthodox mean when we say we are not monergists is not the same as what Lutherans mean when they identify as monergists.

Food for thought, since aside from this issue of monergism, which I think we should prayerfully study to see if its terminology, as the EO/OO schism turned out to be, a difference in words rather than in meaning, it appears the Lutheran and Orthodox faith are in most respects identical (the sole remaining differences being over minor points such as Luther, even while he used the Orthodox prayer venerating the Theotokos called the Angelic Salutation, and very properly venerating the Theotokos, for which I admire him, disagreeing with actually engaging in intercessory prayer towards the saints; however Orthodoxy does not require intercessory prayer at least on the level of personal devotion, although those strongly opposed to it might find some of our hymns to be vexatious. I would hope that my Lutheran friends would be willing to grant intercessory prayer to the saints the status of adiaphora, since nowhere does Orthodoxy say that one must ask the saints for their intercession; we do it liturgically in the Byzantine Rite but not in some forms of the Western Rite.

Click to expand...

Well, lets take a further look at the Greek words used in translating from the Hebrew text that has become confused with Greek myths. History shows that Christians picked up these false ideas and pagan beliefs of immortality of the soul, that a part of, or essence of, or spirit being of an individual, survives the death of the body of this world and this lifetime, by natural or supernatural means. This is at odds and in contrast to the scriptural teaching that the dead go to the grave and know nothing and at the end, the wicked perish and the saints are givne eternal life.

The Greeks had come up with myths that all the dead dwell below the earth in the realm of Hades and Persephon, good and bad alike, leading a shadowy and cheerless existence. The Greek god Hades was the king of the underworld, a place where souls live after death. The Greek god Hermes, the messenger of the gods, would take the dead soul of a person to the underworld (sometimes called Hades or the House of Hades). Hermes would leave the soul on the banks of the River Styx, the river between life and death. Charon, also known as the ferry-man, would take the soul across the river to Hades, if the soul had gold: Upon burial, the family of the dead soul would put coins under the deceased's tongue. Once crossed, the soul would be judged by Aeacus, Rhadamanthus and King Minos. The soul would be sent to Elysium, Tartarus, Asphodel Fields, or the Fields of Punishment.

From the sixth century BC onwards the Greeks developed pagan ideas for the dead, and of reincarnation and even transmigration of souls. These ideas are particularly associated with the pagan Greek Religious Mysteries or Eleusinian mysteries , where initiation in this life into its 'mysteries' are the prerequisites for getting to paradise in the next life. So you see where the Greek words used came loaded with ideas not in line with the original Hebrew, but since at the time, Greek was used as basically English is used today to communicate between people across the world, it was translated into these Greek words, and we have to go back to what the original Hebrew scribes words they wrote to understand their meaning.

So lets first look at the translation of the words closely to see their original meaning:

· Hades was the Greek work used in some places for the Hebrew term, Sheol or grave as "the place of the dead". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.
· Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation were thrown there to be destroyed. Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.
· Tartaro (the verb "throw to Tartarus") occurs only once in the New Testament in 2 Peter 2:4, and basically means the abyss or oblivion.
· The Hebrew word Abaddon, meaning to perish or "destruction", is sometimes used and basically means the same as the abyss or oblivion.

In most translations they often translate Gehenna as "Hell" which was the Greek closest to the meaning. Young's Literal Translation is a notable exception, simply using "Gehenna".

As you can see, Hades is the Greek word used for the Hebrew word Sheol in Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible. While earlier translations most often translated Hades as "hell", as does the King James Version, modern translations use the transliteration "Hades", or render the word as allusions "to the grave", "among the dead", "place of the dead" and many other like statements in other verses. In Latin, Hades began to incorrectly be translated as Purgatorium (Purgatory in English use) after about 1200 A.D., but no modern English translations put Hades as Purgatory. In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term Sheol is translated as "Hell" 31 times. However, Sheol was translated as "the grave" 31 other times.[54] Sheol is also translated as "the pit" three times. Modern translations, however, no longer translate Sheol as "Hell" at all, instead rendering it "the grave," "the pit," or "death."

In the Hebrew text it teaches that when people die they go to Sheol, the grave, we also have the word Gehenna which is the consuming by fire of the wicked. Which when the grave or the eternal oblivion of the wicked was translated into Greek, the word Hades was sometimes used, which is a term for the realm of the dead. Nevertheless the meaning depending on context was the grave, death, or the end of the wicked in which they are ultimately destroyed in the specific way in which scripture shows at the end, which is a consuming fire which destroys them for eternity at the lake of fire.

So we see where the grave or death or eventual destruction of the wicked, was translated using Greek words that since they had no exact ones to use, became a mix of mistranslation, pagan influence, and Greek myth associated with the word, but its original meaning was simple death or the destruction of the wicked at the end. 'Hades' was simply the word closest in meaning to the Hebrew 'Sheol'. The new versions now leave the word 'Sheol' untranslated, which is better than the Greek words used which cause confusion if the necessary basic Hebrew to Greek word translation used at the time is not understood.

So now that we showed and clarified some of thesw translation issues, we can more clearly see what scripture teaches. If we read the Hebrew text, we see the prophets who wrote the Bible did not know the word "Hell"; they used the Hebrew Sheol, which meant the grave, and also descriptions which with the translation to Greek, three different Greek words are used that are translated as Hell. As shown, there is a meaning for each of them, and its important to know this, for they each mean something different. They are "Tartarus," "Gehenna," and "Hades", and lets look at them.

The Scripture says,
God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment (2 Peter 2:4).

This verse says that "the angels that sinned"(which would include Lucifer, too) have already been cast down "to hell" by God Himself. Yet they arent burning right now, obviously, and they certainly arent suffering somewhere far beneath the earth. Tartarus means "dark abyss" or "place of restraint." It isnt a place of punishment either. Look carefully. 2 Peter 2:4 says Satans angels are "reserved unto judgment," which means their punishment is yet future. For Satan and his evil angels, the fire hasnt started yet.

Next lets look at the word "Gehenna." All authorities admit this word is derived from the name of the narrow, rocky valley of Hinnom just south of Jerusalem where trash, filth, and the bodies of dead animals were burned up in Bible days. Here is a quote from Bible Facts" by Jenny Roberts "..Gehenna meant "the valley of Hinnom", and was originally a particular valley outside Jerusalem, where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch (2 Kings 23:10; 2 Chron. 28:3;Jer. 32:35). In later Jewish literature Gehenna came to be associated with a place of torment and unquenchable fire that was to be the punishment for sinners. It was thought by many that lesser sinners might eventually be delivered from the fires of Gehenna, but by New Testament times punishment for sinners was deemed to be eternal...."

Jesus Christ spoke about Gehenna many times such as in Matthew 5:22, 29,30 where He warned about "the danger of hell [Gehenna] fire"(Matthew 5:22). Gehenna definitely suggests real flames. The key question is when will this fire burn, Christ shows us when the fire will burn:
"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:40-42)

Peter taught the same thing when he wrote:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:7

Peter also adds even more, as to what will come to pass after the wicked are destroyed and the earth is cleansed of all sin and its affects.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10

Now lets look at what will happen to the being created by God who brought sin into the world..

Ezekiel 28 King James Version (KJV)

"11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."

So its clear even the devil will meet his end, so there is no way he will be somewhere under the ground with his minions, overseeing any fiery burning place in the underworld.