The utter failure of Christian influence.

Confused-by-christianity · 2026-06-07T10:28:12-0500

Maine Progressive said:
Honestly, I don't recall claiming you, or anyone here, doesn't agree with the Bible. I just don't agree with the claim that a stronger Christian Influence would make America better. As evidenced by the failures of Christian influence in the Southeast to make the Southeast at least as effective as the more secular areas of the U.S. in addressing divorce; teen pregnancy; obesity; homicide; poverty; smoking; infant mortality; life expectancy. That is a fact. It has nothing to do with claiming "we {whoever that is} do not"...which I have not done.
Honestly, what does anyone posting here think they are accomplishing? Do you know? Is there a list of Things To Accomplish on this website? Do you have a list? For me, I post to express my hopes arising from my faith in Christ. That's it.

First thing i would say is the idea of hypocrisy as i understand it. People put on a face (a mask) that hides who they really are. Anyone can wear the mask of a christian but be a monster on the inside. Especially if being a christian is the "done thing".

Next thing i would say is whether people know any better. People tend to do the best they can with the level of knowledge / character growth they have at the time. Years later they realise they were unwise - but at the time, it's all they knew. I would say that not all religions are created equal. Not all christianities will elevate people above their social level.

I think people need to return to some basics.

1) Focus on truth, beauty and goodness.
2) Accept that people cant ever really be coerced (my big issue with the abortion debate). People need to choose things out of their own free will. This means destroying fear religion and embracing positive religion. Stop trying to get people to do stuff because they are afraid of bad stuff happening, and start getting people to do stuff because it's worthy of your heart.

timothyu · 2026-06-07T10:31:16-0500

Maine Progressive said:
I just don't agree with the claim that a stronger Christian Influence would make America better.

Tough to accomplish considering America is based on the principle of take, not give.

Rescued One · 2026-06-07T20:23:24-0500

The Bible is the absolute Word of God. Christians rely on it for truth. Many people attend churches with God given faith. My MIL from Maine thought church attendance meant you were a Christian.

timothyu · 2026-06-07T20:35:40-0500

Rescued One said:
My MIL from Maine thought church attendance meant you were a Christian.

Oooooooo

David Lamb · 2026-06-08T01:53:15-0500

Rescued One said:
My MIL from Maine thought church attendance meant you were a Christian.

Sadly, far too many people believe that. As a child, I was brought up to attend church, and it always seemed to be assumed that I was a Christian because I did so. Nobody at that church ever told me that I was a sinner who needed saving by Jesus Christ.

bèlla · 2026-06-08T08:19:59-0500

David Lamb said:
Sadly, far too many people believe that. As a child, I was brought up to attend church, and it always seemed to be assumed that I was a Christian because I did so. Nobody at that church ever told me that I was a sinner who needed saving by Jesus Christ.

People walk in the measure of light they possess. Many practices we have today weren't popular years ago like bible study. The majority received instruction through the sermon. We didn't have the extracurricular activities we enjoy now. This is a different time which requires a different address. Christians will find us equally ignorant in the future as society progresses.

~bella

Maine Progressive · 2026-06-08T10:21:54-0500

These latest postings are very thoughtful and I want to express my gratitude for them. Perhaps it can be seen that we don't all share the exact same concept of 'being a Christian'. Since my own life was completely turned around when Christ saved me at a young age, I can appreciate the depth of faith that it engenders in one’s walk with God. But I came to realize that the many shades of Christian ‘faith’ and corresponding ‘creed’ were not the boundaries of who really is and who really isn’t a Christian. So, I admit, here I am with my own beliefs as to who is or isn’t. It doesn’t make me right. But it is real and it is Biblical. So I won’t apologize for it. But when others disagree with me, I don’t regard it as disrespectful. Nor, I hope, should others regard my disagreements as such.

I think of Christ’s prayer just before He was crucified. And then I think of a meme I saw of an adult Bible study of Christian history where the lecturer had a giant organization chart with scads of lines and arrows and bubbles making a huge bird’s nest with the cross at the beginning and a little group of worshippers at the end. The caption for the lecturer was ‘This is how we became true Christians’ and a person in the class remarked ‘Oooo, Jesus must be so proud of us.’. After 2000 years I am doubtful that Christ’s final prayer will ever be fulfilled in the way He desired. For me a Christian is identified as just two things. Someone who identifies the death and resurrection of Christ as central to the Christian faith. And someone who is motivated to actually do the hard and effective work of charity. To me that is the paradox. On the one hand Christ says For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (Mt 11:30) and on the other "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction” Mt 7:13. Accepting Christ is easy, however you choose to define it. Following Christ is hard because the crying needs of charity are huge and no one person can possibly address them all. Few are willing to acknowledge them. Fewer still are willing to set aside all their religious differences and work to accomplish real charity. It is much easier to dismiss or distrust others and find easier ways to look holy.

timothyu · 2026-06-08T11:10:01-0500

David Lamb said:
Nobody at that church ever told me that I was a sinner who needed saving by Jesus Christ.

He saved all mankind whether they know it or not. The door to the Kingdom was opened. Saving is one thing. Accepting God's ultimate rule over our own or our traditional so called leaders is another.

timothyu · 2026-06-08T11:14:00-0500

Maine Progressive said:
Accepting Christ is easy, however you choose to define it. Following Christ is hard because the crying needs of charity are huge and no one person can possibly address them all. Few are willing to acknowledge them. Fewer still are willing to set aside all their religious differences and work to accomplish real charity. It is much easier to dismiss or distrust others and find easier ways to look holy.

The key element is to simply be nice to each other, thus following the 2nd C. Charity of course comes into play but the poor and broken will always be with us. We are not meant to be fixers but simply supporters in the efforts of others that we may encounter willing to upright themselves. Jesus didn't come to start a religion, but rather a way of life.

Maine Progressive · 2026-06-08T15:59:38-0500

timothyu said:
The key element is to simply be nice to each other, thus following the 2nd C. Charity of course comes into play but the poor and broken will always be with us. We are not meant to be fixers but simply supporters in the efforts of others that we may encounter willing to upright themselves. Jesus didn't come to start a religion, but rather a way of life.

Perhaps you are right. Perhaps that’s all we can do. But, personally, I believe we can do better. I don’t think it is beyond reach to significantly reduce the eight ills I listed and others as well. The assets are there. The means and methods are there. Of course, none of it can be fixed entirely. But it only requires the intention of the majority to make a significant difference. So I believe Christians are called to ‘fix’ things. But ‘fix’ as defined by charity, not by creed, not by control, not by dominance. A theocracy fixes nothing. It just enforces the illusion. But history is full of gigantic changes that occurred when the people as a whole acted to change. Slavery, illiteracy, plagues, etc. Sure, there are still pockets. But massive changes can occur.

However, I respect the Christians whose faith is for their own upbuilding. It’s well suited for that and it often provides inner strength to prevail against life’s trials. I would never fault that choice.

timothyu · 2026-06-08T16:13:00-0500

Maine Progressive said:
But massive changes can occur.

Now if we could just get rid of the corporate mentality and free us from reliance on them.

iluvatar5150 · 2026-06-08T16:14:55-0500

Maine Progressive said:
Perhaps you are right. Perhaps that’s all we can do. But, personally, I believe we can do better. I don’t think it is beyond reach to significantly reduce the eight ills I listed and others as well. The assets are there. The means and methods are there. Of course, none of it can be fixed entirely. But it only requires the intention of the majority to make a significant difference. So I believe Christians are called to ‘fix’ things. But ‘fix’ as defined by charity, not by creed, not by control, not by dominance. A theocracy fixes nothing. It just enforces the illusion. But history is full of gigantic changes that occurred when the people as a whole acted to change. Slavery, illiteracy, plagues, etc. Sure, there are still pockets. But massive changes can occur.

That would require Christians to acknowledge that some knowledge comes from outside their sphere, relenquish some amount of control, and work within structures set up and run by others. And we all know how much they hate all of those things.

Rescued One · 2026-06-08T16:54:13-0500

Christians are not spending hours degrading groups of people as I've seen by some on this thread. You cannot condemn or fault Southerners expecting them to meet your expectations of what they must do. No one here knows how many Southerners are Christians. God is their judge and Christians encourage Christians instead of looking for failures.

My parents, and three living grandparents were not Christians. God arranged for me to read my Bible and pray before I became a Chrristian.

The utter failure of Christian influence.

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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The war bow. God uses metaphors.

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The war bow. God uses metaphors.

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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