what does this verse mean?

David1701 · Saturday at 9:05 PM

Junotheservant said:
What in the carnal mind is going on here??

https://imgur.com/ZPQusZ9

Romans 8: 5 - 7
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Please understand that there are two laws. The ministry of death is the law of animal sacrifice.

The Old Covenant Vs The New Covenant

The purpose of this thread is to show clearly the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant. The million dollar question is: What is a covenant??? A covenant is simply an agreement between two or more parties. In fact in our legal world we call them contracts. Let's examine...

www.christianforums.com

The carnal mind (i.e. the mind of an unregenerate person) is death; it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. This is precisely why the law is the ministry of death and condemnation! By the law is the knowledge of sin; and the law stirs up sin, even in Christians (see Rom. 7).

For someone who is born again, on the other hand:

Rom. 6:14,15 (A.V.)
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

One of the reasons why sin does not have dominion over the born again Christian, is because he is NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE.

The Christian is not justified by law; he is not sanctified by law; he does not live by law; but he does live by grace, being led by the Holy Spirit; and that is why sin is no longer his master. He does not need the ten commandments to tell him to love God and others, not to murder, not to steal, not to commit adultery, etc., because he is a new creation, in Christ Jesus, with a new heart/spirit and he has fellowship with God, by the Holy Spirit.

I can never understand Christians who want to bring themselves back under the bondage of law, effectively denying the New Covenant, the cross and Jesus' bodily resurrection. We live in the newness of the Spirit, not the oldness of the letter of the law.

If you really don't like confusion, then stop trying to mix law and grace - they don't go together.

David1701 · Saturday at 9:15 PM

Christ's Bride said:
David,

I love God’s Truth, And I hate confusion.

1 Peter 1: 25 But the “word” of the Lord endureth for ever.

And this IS the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

The only WORD Peter can be referring to, is what we call today -- the O T and that Word is what the Apostles used to preach the Good News.

Does God do anything without first revealing it to His prophets?

Amos 3:

7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

For something as major as ending the 10 Commandments, this must be revealed by God’s Prophets or God is a liar.

And as you wrote they were not written on paper, but stone and they are in the Ark under the Mercy Seat of The Father. So abolishing or ending the commandments is a HUGE thing,

please show us the prophecy by one of God’s Prophets showing Christ came to do away with the 10 commandments.

One thing I believe you are missing, yes, the O C gave physical blessings for obedience and death for transgressions, that is IT, --- but, and this is a HUGE, but, only the Few had the Holy Spirit until Pentecost when the Father poured it out on 120.

Now with the indwelling of that ONE Spirit, the power to obey had come.

David, I began obeying in 1969, not perfectly, but growing year by year.

I cannot imagine not living by God’s HOLY LAW, I have friends and relatives that do not, their lives are a mess, and if you are watching the whole world is about to implode and you know they never have.

God’s Law of Righteousness’ brings peace, joy, prosperity and every good thing a sound mind could desire.

God's law brings death and condemnation, as the Scripture I posted proves. By the law is the knowledge of sin. Christians are not under law but under grace. We live by faith and the law is not of faith, as Scripture plainly states.

Gal. 3:1-3 (A.V.)
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Gal. 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

If a Christian tries to live by law, then he ends up in Romans 7; the solution is in Romans 8:1-4.

Rom. 8:1-4 (A.V.)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

In verse 2, the "law" of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus means the principle that we live by the Spirit of life in Christ, by which we are set free from the law of sin and death.

David1701 · Saturday at 9:20 PM

timothyu said:
Nor followers of God. Being a Christian does nor mean perfection. All still put their will ahead of others at times. Those who seek division are not loving all as self etc.

Those who try to get Christians back under the yoke of bondage (the law) are seeking division. We need to recognise such people and avoid them.

Gal. 4:29-31 (A.V.)
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

The "children of the bondwoman" are under law; the "children of freewoman" are under grace.

Rom. 16:17,18 (A.V.)
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Christ's Bride · Sunday at 4:35 AM

David1701 said:
God's law brings death and condemnation, as the Scripture I posted proves. By the law is the knowledge of sin. Christians are not under law but under grace. We live by faith and the law is not of faith, as Scripture plainly states.

Gal. 3:1-3 (A.V.)
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Gal. 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

If a Christian tries to live by law, then he ends up in Romans 7; the solution is in Romans 8:1-4.

Rom. 8:1-4 (A.V.)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

In verse 2, the "law" of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus means the principle that we live by the Spirit of life in Christ, by which we are set free from the law of sin and death.

Christ's Bride · Sunday at 4:38 AM

David1701 said:
God's law brings death and condemnation, as the Scripture I posted proves. By the law is the knowledge of sin. Christians are not under law but under grace. We live by faith and the law is not of faith, as Scripture plainly states.

Gal. 3:1-3 (A.V.)
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Gal. 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

If a Christian tries to live by law, then he ends up in Romans 7; the solution is in Romans 8:1-4.

Rom. 8:1-4 (A.V.)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

In verse 2, the "law" of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus means the principle that we live by the Spirit of life in Christ, by which we are set free from the law of sin and death.

David

Jesus Christ is GOD, not Paul. Jesus Christ is GOD that Made man and all things.

Paul’s letters must not, cannot contradict Words from the Mouth of GOD.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. pléroó: To fill, to make full, to complete, to fulfill

The word “fulfil” does not mean end, stop, abolish --- It means to fill, to add to, to make complete, make full.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. pléroó: To fill, to make full, to complete, to fulfill

You must agree heaven and earth are still here! So, God’s plan is not complete.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

David, verse 19 states whosoever shall “do” and teach the Commandments shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Please explain how verse 19 can mean “Christians are not under law but under grace.”

Then Christ continues and explains, physically transgressing the commandments has now been expanded, made full, to transgressing only in one’s mind is now sin. Christ just expanded the Law making it utterly impossible for man to live by.

Here is what the vast majority of the churches do not understand. Christ made it possible for those the Father calls to Him to receive the Holy Spirit, the Spirit gave Christ the power to obey to perfection and it gives those called by the Father, the power to obey.

Without the Spirit we are not HIS.

Here is a verse I never ever see any one quote, that hates the Law,

Numbers 15

15 One ordinance [shall be both] for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth [with you], an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye [are], so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

16 One law (Torah#8451) and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

The Torah is THE LAW for all mankind and will be the LAW Jesus Christ will rule the entire earth by as KING of Kings. The Prophets of God confirm this fact.

David1701 · Sunday at 8:17 AM

Christ's Bride said:
David

Jesus Christ is GOD, not Paul. Jesus Christ is GOD that Made man and all things.

Paul’s letters must not, cannot contradict Words from the Mouth of GOD.

...

The apostle Paul's words obviously DO NOT contradict words from the mouth of God; in fact, Paul's letters, just as the rest of the Holy Bible, were breathed out by God.

In trying to set the apostle Paul's letters against other parts of God's word, you are sowing lies and division. You need to repent.

David1701 · Sunday at 8:20 AM

Junotheservant said:
I'm not interested in your opinion. A carnal mind is one not subjected to the royal law. It's obvious Paul is speaking of two laws in his writings. Since you can't get Jesus or the prophets to teach that foolishness yall sit in Paul's writing. You cannot commit sin if there is no law. Paul tells you clearly the law is not sin. The Law identifies sin, once you commit sin something has to die. Every time man sin under the old covenant the blood of animals were shed according to law of animal sacrifice which is why it's the administration of death.

Born again means change in body. Only Jesus Christ is born again. Everyone else is waiting for the change.

Jesus breaks this down clearly in John 3. You need to study. .

You are not under the Law of animal sacrifice but under the blood of Jesus Christ. If you sin (by breaking God's royal law) just because you are not under the law of animal sacrifice you are crucifying Christ a fresh because Jesus is a sin offering.

Hebrews 6: 6
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You put Christ to shame by breaking the commandments. I break down the covenants in another thread go and read.

I can never understand why drunk people want to brainwash others with bad doctrine. You don't even know what justification means. Nor do you understand what grace is, you're just repeating what your false minister stated because people think they go to school and buy the holy ghost and that's what people trust in today. The book said blessed are those that do his commandments it did notsay curse are they that do them.

Romans 2: 13
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Luke 4: 4
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

The problem with false Christians is that they living by Paul's word and they don't understand it. Every book in this bible literally tells you you need to keep commandments, you don't have to do it but stop lying on Paul is honestly sad. Destroying yourself and others.

This is an utterly disgraceful post. You're going on "ignore".

Christ's Bride · Sunday at 9:09 AM

David1701 said:
The apostle Paul's words obviously DO NOT contradict words from the mouth of God; in fact, Paul's letters, just as the rest of the Holy Bible, were breathed out by God.

In trying to set the apostle Paul's letters against other parts of God's word, you are sowing lies and division. You need to repent.

20 To the law (TORAH) and to the (COMMANDMENTS) testimony:

if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light (Truth) in them.

If this is sowing lies and division, I am guilty.

David1701 · Sunday at 10:05 AM

Christ's Bride said:
20 To the law (TORAH) and to the (COMMANDMENTS) testimony:

if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light (Truth) in them.

If this is sowing lies and division, I am guilty.

1) Testimony does not mean "commandments".

2) That was written to Israel, under law.

3) The New Covenant is in force now and that is based on faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, not on law-keeping.

Christ's Bride · Sunday at 10:42 AM

David1701 said:
1) Testimony does not mean "commandments".

2) That was written to Israel, under law.

3) The New Covenant is in force now and that is based on faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, not on law-keeping.

18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

on the two tables of Stone are written the 10 Commandments ---- two tables of testimony,
the Torah requires 2 witnesses and their "Testimony" before the sentence of death can be carried out

the TWO Tables are two witnesses Testifying as to our guilt

15 One ordinance [shall be both] for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth [with you], an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye [are], so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

16 One law and one manner (judgment) shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you .

the word "Law" is Torah --David, the WORD has you boxed in. I wrote none of this --- this is all from Jesus Christ your problem is with HIM>

if you consider your self to be a stranger i.e. not an Israelite --- you are to obey

Here is what Paul told the Romans -- all gentiles

Romans 2:
13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

That word "law" must be Torah,,

timothyu · Sunday at 10:45 AM

David1701 said:
The New Covenant is in force now and that is based on faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, not on law-keeping.

Why did He give us 2 laws?

Christ's Bride · Sunday at 11:11 AM

timothyu said:
Why did He give us 2 laws?

Christ's Bride said:
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

on the two tables of Stone are written the 10 Commandments ---- two tables of testimony,
the Torah requires 2 witnesses and their "Testimony" before the sentence of death can be carried out

the TWO Tables are two witnesses Testifying as to our guilt

15 One ordinance [shall be both] for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth [with you], an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye [are], so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

16 One law and one manner (judgment) shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you .

the word "Law" is Torah --David, the WORD has you boxed in. I wrote none of this --- this is all from Jesus Christ your problem is with HIM>

if you consider your self to be a stranger i.e. not an Israelite --- you are to obey

Here is what Paul told the Romans -- all gentiles

Romans 2:
13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

That word "law" must be Torah,,

David, one more nail, for a Covenant or a contract, same thing, there must be a "consideration"
example: in the sale of a home the buyers consideration is the purchase price

In the Old C, Israel's consideration is;
1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God. 2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD. 3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
obeying the Voice of GOD
the New Covenant must also have a consideration the House of Israel must come with and Paul stated the only change is with the Promises.

I know you will never keep the Fourth until the Rod of Iron is upon earth and it is coming
23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another,

and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

David1701 · Sunday at 11:31 AM

Christ's Bride said:
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

on the two tables of Stone are written the 10 Commandments ---- two tables of testimony,
the Torah requires 2 witnesses and their "Testimony" before the sentence of death can be carried out

the TWO Tables are two witnesses Testifying as to our guilt

15 One ordinance [shall be both] for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth [with you], an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye [are], so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

16 One law and one manner (judgment) shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you .

the word "Law" is Torah --David, the WORD has you boxed in. I wrote none of this --- this is all from Jesus Christ your problem is with HIM>

if you consider your self to be a stranger i.e. not an Israelite --- you are to obey

Here is what Paul told the Romans -- all gentiles

Romans 2:
13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

That word "law" must be Torah,,

Two witnesses refers to two people independently witnessing to a crime or an event. It's nothing to do with the fact that the ten commandments were written on two stone tablets.

One law was indeed to be applied to Israel, and any foreigners who sojourned with them, which has absolutely nothing to do with the New Covenant.

Romans 2 refers to that legal righteousness which could, hypothetically, be obtained by perfect obedience to the law; however, no sinful human ever has, or will, keep the law perfectly, which is why we need the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, who has delivered his people from bondage to law, to live unto the risen Christ.

Rom. 6:14 (A.V.) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gal. 3:10-14
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal. 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal. 4:21-26
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

David1701 · Sunday at 11:33 AM

Christ's Bride said:
David, one more nail, for a Covenant or a contract, same thing, there must be a "consideration"
example: in the sale of a home the buyers consideration is the purchase price

In the Old C, Israel's consideration is;
1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God. 2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD. 3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
obeying the Voice of GOD
the New Covenant must also have a consideration the House of Israel must come with and Paul stated the only change is with the Promises.

I know you will never keep the Fourth until the Rod of Iron is upon earth and it is coming
23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another,

and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Aha, are you S.D.A.? That would explain a lot.

Christ is our Sabbath rest, in the New Covenant.

David1701 · Sunday at 11:53 AM

timothyu said:
Why did He give us 2 laws?

What do you mean by "2 laws"?

timothyu · Sunday at 1:07 PM

David1701 said:
What do you mean by "2 laws"?

Matthew 22: 37Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Christ's Bride · Sunday at 1:34 PM

David1701 said:
Two witnesses refers to two people independently witnessing to a crime or an event. It's nothing to do with the fact that the ten commandments were written on two stone tablets.

One law was indeed to be applied to Israel, and any foreigners who sojourned with them, which has absolutely nothing to do with the New Covenant.

Romans 2 refers to that legal righteousness which could, hypothetically, be obtained by perfect obedience to the law; however, no sinful human ever has, or will, keep the law perfectly, which is why we need the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, who has delivered his people from bondage to law, to live unto the risen Christ.

Rom. 6:14 (A.V.) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gal. 3:10-14
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal. 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal. 4:21-26
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

When Satan is removed, the truth will be known, until then
have a nice day

David1701 · Sunday at 1:36 PM

timothyu said:
Matthew 22: 37Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Those were the two most important laws - the foundation for all the other laws and O.T. prophecies.

David1701 · Sunday at 1:37 PM

Christ's Bride said:
When Satan is removed, the truth will be known, until then
have a nice day

The truth is known. We are not under law but under grace.

timothyu · Sunday at 2:28 PM

David1701 said:
Those were the two most important laws - the foundation for all the other laws and O.T. prophecies.

Yes and still laws that people say we no longer need follow, or so they think. Jesus gave them to us. He didn't cancel them out. They revolve around putting God's will ahead of our own, as does the Lord's prayer and the Bible from start to finish.

what does this verse mean?

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