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Baptism with the Holy Spirit

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Dave...

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Valletta said:
Water is the common sign of the sacrament of Baptism. The Bible explains to us it is not physical mortification ("1 Peter 3 "Not the removal of flesh from the body.") that saves us, but that it is a spiritual saving by God where our sins are forgiven and we are "born again," a saving of the soul.
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When we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit we are saved, when we are not indwelt, we are not saved. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is called the placing into [Christ Jesus] with/by the Holy Spirit. Jesus places Himself in us, and we are simultaneously placed into Him, and His death and resurrection, hence, we are saved "through the resurrection" 1 Peter 3:21. We are saved both judicially and practically. This is all the result of the Holy Spirit indwelling, a baptism by faith Ephesians 1:13-14, 1 Corinthians 12:13.

OT- John 14:19-20 "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

The baptism that places us into Christ was given when the Holy Spirit was given. That's what makes us born again, and justified. That's what birthed the Church.

OT- John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

OT- John 7:38-39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Dave
 
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Valletta

Valletta

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Dave... said:
When we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit we are saved, when we are not indwelt, we are not saved. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is called the placing into [Christ Jesus] with/by the Holy Spirit. Jesus places Himself in us, and we are simultaneously placed into Him, and His death and resurrection, hence, we are saved "through the resurrection" 1 Peter 3:21. We are saved both judicially and practically. This is all the result of the Holy Spirit indwelling, a baptism by faith Ephesians 1:13-14, 1 Corinthians 12:13.

Dave
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Indeed, that indwelling of the Holy Spirit first happens at Baptism, when we are saved. 1 Peter 3 tells us that Baptism saves us.
 
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Dave...

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Valletta said:
Indeed, that indwelling of the Holy Spirit first happens at Baptism, when we are saved. 1 Peter 3 tells us that Baptism saves us.
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Just to be clear, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the baptism that places us in Christ and saves us, called the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Water baptism comes after that fact as a public testimony.


Dave
 
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Valletta

Valletta

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Dave... said:
Just to be clear, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the baptism that places us in Christ and saves us, called the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Water baptism comes after that fact as a public testimony.


Dave
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The sacrament of Baptism, where water is the common sign, is given to infants just like circumcision was for Jews in the OT, based on the faith of the parents. For adult converts to Christianity they must first believe, then they are baptized. This is the way it has been for almost 2000 years.
 
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Aussie52

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Valletta said:
The sacrament of Baptism, where water is the common sign, is given to infants just like circumcision was for Jews in the OT, based on the faith of the parents. For adult converts to Christianity they must first believe, then they are baptized. This is the way it has been for almost 2000 years.
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The parents cannot believe on behalf of the infant; this is neither possible nor scriptural. Each person must believe for themselves. In the case of infants, this should happen when they reach the age of accountability.
 
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Jeff Carr said:
The parents cannot believe on behalf of the infant; this is neither possible nor scriptural. Each person must believe for themselves. In the case of infants, this should happen when they reach the age of accountability.
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Actually Jews were circumcised as infants based on the faith of the parents. Baptism replaced circumcision, whole households were baptized. Infants have been baptized now for almost 2000 years. There is nothing in the Bible stating Baptism cannot take place until "the age of accountability." In fact, we know from the Bible that Jesus wanted the children to come to him.
 
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Valletta said:
Actually Jews were circumcised as infants based on the faith of the parents. Baptism replaced circumcision, whole households were baptized. Infants have been baptized now for almost 2000 years. There is nothing in the Bible stating Baptism cannot take place until "the age of accountability." In fact, we know from the Bible that Jesus wanted the children to come to him.
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There is no Biblical basis that baptism replaced circumcision. Baptism in the New Testament is for believers only and the mode is immersion. It symbolizes our identification with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection There is no New Testament evidence that children were baptized. The households that were baptized were believing individuals.
Infant baptism was introduced in the late second century when the Church introduced the idea of 'baptismal regeneration', which is totally unscriptural, as regeneration comes through faith in Jesus Christ, not baptism.
 
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Dave...

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Valletta said:
Actually Jews were circumcised as infants based on the faith of the parents. Baptism replaced circumcision, whole households were baptized. Infants have been baptized now for almost 2000 years. There is nothing in the Bible stating Baptism cannot take place until "the age of accountability." In fact, we know from the Bible that Jesus wanted the children to come to him.
Click to expand...

God calls children innocent, not knowing their right from their left. It's the same innocence that Adam and Eve had before they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Only with children, they were created innocent, but they grow out of that innocence with the knowledge of good and evil, as Jeff said.

What isn't in the Bible is water baptizing infants. Baptizing infants testifies of a faith that they don't have. It's from Catholicism, not the Bible.

Dave
 
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Dan Perez

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Dave... said:
You're joking right? "Not the removal of dirt from the body" Not water baptism, but the placing into Christ with the Holy Spirit. (<---VIA this is the answer to the question that I asked in post #77)
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And
Jan001 said:
Luke did not say that baptism was unnecessary for salvation. Obviously, it was, because Peter commanded them to be baptized.

Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

Jesus taught emphatically that if a person is not baptized, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Baptism spiritually regenerates a person because it washes away his sins and gives him the Holy Spirit to dwell in him.

Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,
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And Jan001. quoted 1 Peter 3:21 and is does now BAPTISM , BUT. the Greek text reads in 1 PETER 3:21. The like

the like figure. whereunto. even BAPTISM. , but the Greek TEXT RFEADS IS NOT THE WORD baptism and the GREEK

TEXT READS BAPTISMA NOT BAPTISM , and the the word CALLED BAPTISMA in. a string of 22 verses with this \
\
GREEK WORD , just check and see. !!

dan p
 
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Dan Perez

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Jan001 said:
This scripture passage is using an idiom for the water baptism commanded by Jesus Christ in Matthew 28:18-19.
Performing a baptism using an idiom will not actually save anyone.


God is three divine persons. These three divine persons have divine names corresponding to their relationship with each other. Their divine names are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, respectively.


The Son is also a human being, and so he was given another name, Jesus, aka Jesus Christ, which means "Yahweh saves" or "the Lord is salvation." Matthew 1:21

Jesus commanded his apostles to make disciples for him by baptizing them in God's three divine names, not in his human name alone.


Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. See also Acts 10:48.

Why did Peter say to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?


John the Baptist had previously preached a "water baptism for the repentance of sins." Peter was now preaching the "water baptism for the forgiveness of sins." This new water baptism which literally forgives sins became known by its idioms to differentiate it from John's baptism. Acts 13:24


One of the idioms that was used:

Acts 19:3-5 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


Other idioms that were used:

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.


When the apostles actually baptized people, they called upon his divine name, Son, along with the other two divine names, Father and Holy Spirit, according to Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19. They did not baptize using any of the idioms.
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And ACTS 19:5 SAYS THIS !!

# 1 When // DE. , is a CONJUM,CTION

# 2 THEY HEARD // AKGUW. , in. the AORIST TENSE in the ACTIVE VOICE in the NOMINATIVE C ASE in the PLURAL

# 3 THEY WERE BAPTIZED // BABTIZO in the AORIST TENSE in the PASSIVE VOICE. in the INDIOCATIVE MOOD

in. the PLURAL

# 4 IN // EIS. , is a PREPOSTION

# 5 THE // HO , is a DEFINITGE ARTICLE. in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SIGNULAR in the SINGULAE is NEUTER

# 6. NAME //. ONOMA. in the ACCUSATIVE CASE in the SINGULAR in the NEUTER

# 7. OF THE //. HO iOS. a DEFINITE ARTICLE. in. the SIGNULAR

# 8 LORD. // KYRIOS. in the GENITIVE CASE in. the SIGULAR

# 9 JESUS. // IESOUS. in the GENITE CASE. in the SIGNULAR !!

dan p
 
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