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what does this verse mean?

timothyu

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Here is a criminal dying a horrendous death for his crimes and all he does is say, “remember me.” And everyone tells us this fellow went to straight heaven that very day, with Christ.
Punctuation was added later thus giving a second way of looking at it which became the official narratve

Can the gift of eternal life come in seconds?
If, as in this case, he put another ahead of self while the other dude was only concerned about saving himself
 
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Junotheservant

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how it is given or received does not say what it actually is.

what is grace?

thks
where does scripture say grace is unmerited favor?

thks
I like you mate. Do not believe nothing anyone say unless they can prove it out of the scripture. They should use more than one witness as well because that's what the Bible said. Now let's take a look at what Grace is

Ephesians 2: 8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Now the question is, what is the gift of God?? Well let's dive deeper into the book.

Isaiah 53: 1 - 7

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? The arm of the LORD is Jesus see John 12: 38

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.


This is the free gift. The blood of Jesus Christ which was shed for your sins.

John 1: 29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Romans 5: 8
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Hope that helped you out. Have a good one.
 
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Christ's Bride

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I like you mate. Do not believe nothing anyone say unless they can prove it out of the scripture. They should use more than one witness as well because that's what the Bible said. Now let's take a look at what Grace is

Ephesians 2: 8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Now the question is, what is the gift of God?? Well let's dive deeper into the book.

Isaiah 53: 1 - 7

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? The arm of the LORD is Jesus see John 12: 38

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.


This is the free gift. The blood of Jesus Christ which was shed for your sins.

John 1: 29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Romans 5: 8
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Hope that helped you out. Have a good one.
Romans 5: 8 defines "Grace": which has become the "get out of jail for free" card
 
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whatdoesthisversemean

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The "good" thief had been born again, whilst on the cross, otherwise he would not have believed in the Lord.

Rom. 8:7-9 (A.V.)
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
he was a born again christian? how if he died before the new covenant? heb 9:16-17

thks
 
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whatdoesthisversemean

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I like you mate. Do not believe nothing anyone say unless they can prove it out of the scripture. They should use more than one witness as well because that's what the Bible said. Now let's take a look at what Grace is

Ephesians 2: 8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Now the question is, what is the gift of God?? Well let's dive deeper into the book.

Isaiah 53: 1 - 7

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? The arm of the LORD is Jesus see John 12: 38

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.


This is the free gift. The blood of Jesus Christ which was shed for your sins.

John 1: 29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Romans 5: 8
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Hope that helped you out. Have a good one.
still not saying what grace is, Jesus the eternal word is our salvation!

what is eternal life?

thks
 
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David1701

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he was a born again christian? how if he died before the new covenant? heb 9:16-17

thks
Being born again is not specific to the New Covenant. Nicodemus (also before the New Covenant), in John 3, was told that you (plural) must be born again. He was also told that he should have known about it, being the teacher of Israel, and they used the Old Testament, so the teaching is from there.
 
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whatdoesthisversemean

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Romans 5: 8 defines "Grace": which has become the "get out of jail for free" card
rom 5:5-8

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

God is love, so grace is the life of God

and brought us to the life of grace

Jn 1:14
Jn 1:16
Jn 1:17
Jn 10:10
Jn 14:6
eph 2:1
Christ by His life, death, (blood) and resurrection obtained the atonement and general redemption making the life of grace possible!

Romans 5:2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

thks
 
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David1701

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I have heard since I can remember, Jesus took the thief to heaven the very day they both died. Can that be true?

Luke 23

...
Verily I say unto thee to day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
It's likely that "paradise" was the compartment in Hades for the righteous dead, and that he was only taken to heaven when Jesus emptied that compartment; however, it's true that the penitent thief was taken to paradise on the day that they died.


Here is a criminal dying a horrendous death for his crimes and all he does is say, “remember me.” And everyone tells us this fellow went to straight heaven that very day, with Christ. Wasn’t Christ suppose to be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights?
Jesus' body was in the tomb for three days, not his Spirit.

Is this reasonable? Utter two words and you are saved?
God looks at the heart. Mute people can be saved.

Is this according to scriptures? No repentance, no baptism, no overcoming, no trials?
The thief clearly did repent and overcome. Being killed by slow torture definitely counts as a trial! There was no opportunity for baptism, which is not necessary to be saved (it's a command to be obeyed after one is saved).

Can the gift of eternal life come in seconds?
Yes; it comes no other way; although, the build-up can take years.

Then we have 10 “Virgins”; we must assume they have repented, been baptized, given the promise of the Holy Spirit therefore; spiritual virgins, "Christians in God’s Church".
We do not need to make any of those assumptions. The ten "virgins" represent those who profess to belong to God, but the inner reality is different between the two sets of five.

How can we determine all ten are Christians? The Five wise “Virgins” go in to the wedding with Christ.
Five are real, five not...

Foolish "virgins" are those who profess to be Christians, but do not have the oil of the Holy Spirit (they have not been saved).

The Bible says that this is eternal life, to know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. Jesus told the foolish virgins that he did not know them, so they never had eternal life.

The penitent thief had faith in Jesus, that was his obedience.

Here are more “Christians” doing wonderful works, preaching, teaching, feeding the poor, declaring Christ is their lord and Christ says depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

How are we to understand these three events...?
You can hang gifts on a dead tree, but only a living tree bears fruit.

The five foolish virgins had not been saved; all they had was their profession; they did not have the reality.

the others, claiming Christ as their Lord, doing wonderful works, were not following the ONE Lawful narrow Way, otherwise Christ could not accuse them of iniquity?
Yes

Jesus Christ had Matthew include the two situations where many Christians were rejected and then this thief met Christ for the first time, for a few minutes and He is granted the gift of eternal life for speaking two words?
Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works lest anyone should boast.

How can these events be justified, one gets “saved” in minutes and the others, after possibly years, are rejected?
...
Faith is given to one in an instant (along with repentance and love for the Lord), when God gives a new heart/spirit.

Years of dead works, flowing from an unregenerated heart, and mere outward religion, does not help anyone.
 
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David1701

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I like you mate. Do not believe nothing anyone say unless they can prove it out of the scripture. They should use more than one witness as well because that's what the Bible said. Now let's take a look at what Grace is

Ephesians 2: 8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Now the question is, what is the gift of God?? Well let's dive deeper into the book.

Isaiah 53: 1 - 7

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? The arm of the LORD is Jesus see John 12: 38

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.


This is the free gift. The blood of Jesus Christ which was shed for your sins.

John 1: 29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Romans 5: 8
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Hope that helped you out. Have a good one.
That's not what grace is. Grace is undeserved favour. Salvation from sin and hell, because of the shed blood and broken body of the Lord, on the cross, and his bodily resurrection from the dead, is a wonderful example of God's grace, but it is not what the word means.
 
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Christ's Bride

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Being born again is not specific to the New Covenant. Nicodemus (also before the New Covenant), in John 3, was told that you (plural) must be born again. He was also told that he should have known about it, being the teacher of Israel, and they used the Old Testament, so the teaching is from there.

David did you read all the words??

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Nicodemus understood,, birth, an actual birth, not spiritual!

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
our first birth is in to flesh, water is 70% of flesh and in the womb we are in water. we are born when "the water breaks."

our Second birth is in to "Spirit" ---flesh can not enter the kingdom, if you bleed you are flesh.

6 That which is born of the flesh ---- is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit --- is spirit.

we are flesh now, when we are "Born from Above" we will be Spirit --- not flesh 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto
his glorious (SPIRIT) body,

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be "born again". this is also translated as:: "to bring forth from above", born from above

Here in verse 8 Christ explains when born into Spirit -- we will be like the wind, you know its there,, but invisible.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Born again?? NO! I have that ONE Spirit in me and I am waiting to be born into Spirit -- no longer in this body of sin.
 
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David1701

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David did you read all the words??

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Nicodemus understood,, birth, an actual birth, not spiritual!
Nicodemus misunderstood the Lord, thinking that he was speaking about a second physical birth; but, Jesus was speaking about an inner, spiritual birth, when he said that we must be born again.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
our first birth is in to flesh, water is 70% of flesh and in the womb we are in water. we are born when "the water breaks."

our Second birth is in to "Spirit" ---flesh can not enter the kingdom, if you bleed you are flesh.
Humans are flesh, soul and spirit. Our spirit is that which is born again.

6 That which is born of the flesh ---- is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit --- is spirit.

we are flesh now, when we are "Born from Above" we will be Spirit --- not flesh 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto
his glorious (SPIRIT) body,
It is our physical body that will be resurrected, just as Jesus' was bodily resurrected. Genuine Christians have already been born again in spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be "born again". this is also translated as:: "to bring forth from above", born from above

Here in verse 8 Christ explains when born into Spirit -- we will be like the wind, you know its there,, but invisible.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
So it is when God saves someone: the Holy Spirit "blows" where he wills and makes the person born again in spirit. You cannot predict it and it is not under human control.

Born again?? NO! I have that ONE Spirit in me and I am waiting to be born into Spirit -- no longer in this body of sin.
If one is not born again, then he has not been saved. Christians are new creations in Christ Jesus.
 
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Christ's Bride

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It's likely that "paradise" was the compartment in Hades for the righteous dead, and that he was only taken to heaven when Jesus emptied that compartment; however, it's true that the penitent thief was taken to paradise on the day that they died.



Jesus' body was in the tomb for three days, not his Spirit.


God looks at the heart. Mute people can be saved.


The thief clearly did repent and overcome. Being killed by slow torture definitely counts as a trial! There was no opportunity for baptism, which is not necessary to be saved (it's a command to be obeyed after one is saved).


Yes; it comes no other way; although, the build-up can take years.


We do not need to make any of those assumptions. The ten "virgins" represent those who profess to belong to God, but the inner reality is different between the two sets of five.


Five are real, five not...


Foolish "virgins" are those who profess to be Christians, but do not have the oil of the Holy Spirit (they have not been saved).

The Bible says that this is eternal life, to know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. Jesus told the foolish virgins that he did not know them, so they never had eternal life.


The penitent thief had faith in Jesus, that was his obedience.


You can hang gifts on a dead tree, but only a living tree bears fruit.

The five foolish virgins had not been saved; all they had was their profession; they did not have the reality.


Yes


Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works lest anyone should boast.


Faith is given to one in an instant (along with repentance and love for the Lord), when God gives a new heart/spirit.

Years of dead works, flowing from an unregenerated heart, and mere outward religion, does not help anyone.

When Christ returns He will restore ALL THINGS as they were in the Beginning --- as the Garden of Eden. at some point in the 1000 years the entire earth will be restored as the Garden of Eden.

And the word Paradise is also translated as garden,
'I am telling you today --- you will be with Me in the Garden of Eden."
Christ did not say heaven. and there are no commas in Greek or Hebrew

In 60 years of study I have found zero scriptures stating heaven is our reward or whatever. and Christ said clearly no one had been to heaven but HIM.
do not bring up the two taken in to the sky, not the 3rd heaven.. Hebrews 11-- all died not having received the promise.

Jesus' body was in the tomb for three days, not his Spirit. ----WOW if that were so, then our sins are not paid for,,, we will all die.

David, I am not --- at all -- with you --- I tell folks I am of the FEW -- not the MANY.
I hold not one belief of the Many! NOT ONE

You are repeating to me the beliefs of the Many!

final comment:
there could be as many as 45,000 diverse churches, not one like another, some close, but all believing contradicting doctrines.
which, David is the ONE TRUE Church The Father Began on Pentecost?
 
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Christ's Bride

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rom 5:5-8

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

God is love, so grace is the life of God

and brought us to the life of grace

Jn 1:14
Jn 1:16
Jn 1:17
Jn 10:10
Jn 14:6
eph 2:1
Christ by His life, death, (blood) and resurrection obtained the atonement and general redemption making the life of grace possible!

Romans 5:2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

thks
I am very familiar with Paul and his "doctrine" of grace,, I also study what John has written.

this is the "grace/kindness" of God the Father, spoken by Paul to gentiles.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Paul
31 Do we then make void the law (Torah) through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish (Make to stand ) the law.

I am one of the FEW, not at all of the MANY, Matthew 7
 
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Christ's Bride

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I am very familiar with Paul and his "doctrine" of grace,, I also study what John has written.

this is the "grace/kindness" of God the Father, spoken by Paul to gentiles.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Paul
31 Do we then make void the law (Torah) through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish (Make to stand ) the law.

I am one of the FEW, not at all of the MANY, Matthew 7
this is for David, some how I send to the wrong person too often
 
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David1701

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When Christ returns He will restore ALL THINGS as they were in the Beginning --- as the Garden of Eden. at some point in the 1000 years the entire earth will be restored as the Garden of Eden.

And the word Paradise is also translated as garden,
'I am telling you today --- you will be with Me in the Garden of Eden."
Christ did not say heaven. and there are no commas in Greek or Hebrew

In 60 years of study I have found zero scriptures stating heaven is our reward or whatever. and Christ said clearly no one had been to heaven but HIM.
do not bring up the two taken in to the sky, not the 3rd heaven.. Hebrews 11-- all died not having received the promise.

Jesus' body was in the tomb for three days, not his Spirit. ----WOW if that were so, then our sins are not paid for,,, we will all die.

David, I am not --- at all -- with you --- I tell folks I am of the FEW -- not the MANY.
I hold not one belief of the Many! NOT ONE

You are repeating to me the beliefs of the Many!

final comment:
there could be as many as 45,000 diverse churches, not one like another, some close, but all believing contradicting doctrines.
which, David is the ONE TRUE Church The Father Began on Pentecost?
The Bible never says that we will be in the Garden of Eden. There will be a new heavens and a new earth.

As for dead Christians being in heaven, have you not read Revelation?

There are two uses of "church" (ecclesia) in the New Testament:

1) A local assembly of believers in Jesus Christ

2) The totality of all believers in Jesus Christ
 
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David1701

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I am very familiar with Paul and his "doctrine" of grace,, I also study what John has written.

this is the "grace/kindness" of God the Father, spoken by Paul to gentiles.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Paul
31 Do we then make void the law (Torah) through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish (Make to stand ) the law.
I was referring to the meaning of the Greek word translated "grace", not to examples of the application of God's grace.

I am one of the FEW, not at all of the MANY, Matthew 7
So you keep saying.

Pro. 27:2 (A.V.) Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.
 
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David Lamb

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he was a born again christian? how if he died before the new covenant? heb 9:16-17

thks
Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again. That, too, was before His death and resurrection. But Jesus didn't say, "You must be born again, but not yet; you'll have to wait until after My crucifixion and resurrection."
 
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Christ's Bride

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Nicodemus misunderstood the Lord, thinking that he was speaking about a second physical birth; but, Jesus was speaking about an inner, spiritual birth, when he said that we must be born again.


Humans are flesh, soul and spirit. Our spirit is that which is born again.


It is our physical body that will be resurrected, just as Jesus' was bodily resurrected. Genuine Christians have already been born again in spirit.


So it is when God saves someone: the Holy Spirit "blows" where he wills and makes the person born again in spirit. You cannot predict it and it is not under human control.


If one is not born again, then he has not been saved. Christians are new creations in Christ Jesus.
David I will stay with the Words of the ONE who Made man, Jesus Christ.

David I have been in my temporary body of flesh and blood for 86 years -- if you want to stay in yours that is up to you and Christ,
Christ has offered me a spirit body like His -- I pass on this painful body I welcome to chance to be LIKE my MAKER.

David , it is hard to misunderstand the Words of Christ, THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH "IS' FLESH!!! ""IS""

But you and 2 billion have.

have a nice day
 
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David1701

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David I will stay with the Words of the ONE who Made man, Jesus Christ.

David I have been in my temporary body of flesh and blood for 86 years -- if you want to stay in yours that is up to you and Christ,
Christ has offered me a spirit body like His -- I pass on this painful body I welcome to chance to be LIKE my MAKER.

David , it is hard to misunderstand the Words of Christ, THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH "IS' FLESH!!! ""IS""

But you and 2 billion have.

have a nice day
Our resurrected bodies will be like Jesus' body; you know, the resurrected, physical body in which he visited his disciples, allowed Thomas to put his hand in his wounds, etc. His resurrected, physical body had abilities that our unresurrected bodies do not have, so we can assume that ours will also have such abilities.

David , it is hard to misunderstand the Words of Christ, THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH "IS' FLESH!!! ""IS""
Indeed it is hard to misunderstand; but, you appear to have managed it anyway. Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about the distinction between natural, physical birth, and being born again (which is when God gives us a new heart/spirit (Ez. 36:26,27)). The resurrection was not in view here.

In the resurrection, our physical bodies are resurrected, so that they are suitable for our resurrected spirit (our spirit is given new life at conversion, when we are born again, a.k.a. born from above or born of God).
 
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Junotheservant

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Romans 5: 8 defines "Grace": which has become the "get out of jail for free" card
That's exactly what grace is however many people don't realize that you can go back to jail by breaking the commandments.
 
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