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Apology for role in slavery

Akita Suggagaki

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VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Leo XIV made a historic apology on Monday for the role the Holy See played in legitimizing slavery and for having failed to condemn it for centuries, calling the Vatican’s record a “wound in Christian memory.”


A small step in the right direction.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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The Catholic Church's official condemnation of slavery evolved over centuries, with significant milestones occurring in the late 19th century, culminating in a clear stance against slavery in 1993.

Key Historical Milestones​

  1. Early Condemnations: The Church began addressing slavery as early as 1435, when Pope Eugene IV issued the bull Sicut Dudum, condemning the enslavement of the Indigenous peoples of the Canary Islands. This marked one of the first papal condemnations of slavery.
  2. Continued Resistance: Throughout the 16th and 17th centuries, various popes issued bulls that condemned the enslavement of native peoples, including Pope Paul III in 1537 with Sublimus Dei, which stated that Indigenous peoples should not be enslaved. However, these condemnations often went unheeded in practice.
  3. 19th Century Developments: The Church's position began to shift more decisively in the 19th century. In 1839, Pope Gregory XVI condemned the transatlantic slave trade in his bull In Supremo Apostolatus, but he did not outright condemn slavery itself.
  4. Final Condemnation: It wasn't until 1993 that St. Pope John Paul II offered an unequivocal condemnation of slavery, declaring it an "objective evil" that contradicts human dignity in his encyclical Veritatis Splendor. This marked a significant moment in the Church's moral teaching regarding slavery.
There isn't a culture which did not have slavery. Even today, there are places especially in Islamic nations where slavery is still
done.

Is Pope Leo XIV living in the past? The apology of the Church's involvement in the past has been made by various popes over the centuries. Christ is in the present and union with him is in the now.
 
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Basil the Great

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Based upon the article that I read, Pope Leo is the first Pope to specifically apologize for the Church having given authority to European sovereigns to use infidels as slaves. I give Pope Leo high marks for his statement.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Is Pope Leo XIV living in the past? The apology of the Church's involvement in the past has been made by various popes over the centuries. Christ is in the present and union with him is in the now.
No denying that.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Today there is a trend by some to walk into what Gad Saad a evolutionary psychologist
calls, "suicidal empathy." Professor | Gad Saad

This is when a person or group of persons feel guilty for sins of the past which they had
nothing to do with but feel the need to rectify those sins according to their own feelings of
misplaced compassion.

It doesn't work and only creates guilt which they try to place on others as they see themselves as
more compassionate and empathetic than anyone who disagrees with them.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Today there is a trend by some to walk into what Gad Saad a evolutionary psychologist
calls, "suicidal empathy." Professor | Gad Saad

This is when a person or group of persons feel guilty for sins of the past which they had
nothing to do with but feel the need to rectify those sins according to their own feelings of
misplaced compassion.

It doesn't work and only creates guilt which they try to place on others as they see themselves as
more compassionate and empathetic than anyone who disagrees with them.
So there is no place for communal repentance? No sense of continuity with the past? Even racism no longer exists?
 
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JimR-OCDS

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So there is no place for communal repentance? No sense of continuity with the past? Even racism no longer exists?
Live in the present and be responsible for yourself. If you oppose racism, don't be a racist. In the words of Gandhi,
be the change you want to see in the world.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Live in the present and be responsible for yourself. If you oppose racism, don't be a racist. In the words of Gandhi,
be the change you want to see in the world.
Yes, live in the present and take responsibility. But there is still need for examination of conscience at the personal and national level.
 
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jamiec

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Today there is a trend by some to walk into what Gad Saad a evolutionary psychologist
calls, "suicidal empathy." Professor | Gad Saad

This is when a person or group of persons feel guilty for sins of the past which they had
nothing to do with but feel the need to rectify those sins according to their own feelings of
misplaced compassion.

It doesn't work and only creates guilt which they try to place on others as they see themselves as
more compassionate and empathetic than anyone who disagrees with them.
Well said. This was a stupid move, like all the asinine apologies - over 90 of them - from JP2. All that this nonsense achieves, is to remind people that the “infallible” Church could be, and was, extremely & disastrously wrong in a matter of morals, namely, the morality of slavery; and wrong, not once, but for almost all her life, for many centuries. This apology is an implicit denial of a dogma. That makes Uncle Bob a heretic, and, at most, an ex-Pope. Maybe he would be more at home as a Mormon “prophet” or as a member of the Jehovah’s Witness Governing Body.

Who in their right mind is going to accept, tamely, what the Church teaches on morals is reliable, let alone irreformable & unchangeable ? And if the Papacy can “see the light” on this issue, it is totally reasonable to suppose that the Papacy will, a few centuries in the future, also “see the light” on the goodness and rightness of abortion & homosexuality. If the Papacy’s tradition on the morality of slavery or of the DP can be thrown out, there is no reason why the Papacy’s tradition on the morality of abortion & homosexuality cannot also be thrown out. A lesbian Papess (or two, both ”gloriously reigning” as a couple), is only a matter of time, because in today’s cool, with-it, hypermodern, pseudo-merciful, Syn-on-more-odal Church, anything goes. Unless, of course, it is Traditional; in whch case it is totes evil & beyond the pale.
Today there is a trend by some to walk into what Gad Saad a evolutionary psychologist
calls, "suicidal empathy." Professor | Gad Saad

This is when a person or group of persons feel guilty for sins of the past which they had
nothing to do with but feel the need to rectify those sins according to their own feelings of
misplaced compassion.

It doesn't work and only creates guilt which they try to place on others as they see themselves as
more compassionate and empathetic than anyone who disagrees with them.
It’s the now usual papal virtue signalling garbage; very cheap gesture politics which makes the papacy look good to a few, and unprincipled to everyone else. The practical result will be to show how totally unreliable and up its own backside the Papacy is, and how nothing it teaches can be trusted. The Papacy is a champion at undermining its - more accurately, Christ’s - teaching authority. And Catholics are the people who have to put up with this faecal matter. Like an incontinent baby, the Papacy craps in the bed, but Catholics have to clean up the mess & get rid of the stink. Disgusting behaviour.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Yes, live in the present and take responsibility. But there is still need for examination of conscience at the personal and national level.
Examination of conscience and the responsibility at the personal level. The national level may not be your fault and certainly
not those sins committed generations before you were born.
 
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zippy2006

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But there is still need for examination of conscience at the personal and national level.
The "personal" and "national" level literally have nothing to do with the point at stake, namely the past.
 
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zippy2006

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It’s the now usual papal virtue signalling garbage; very cheap gesture politics which makes the papacy look good to a few, and unprincipled to everyone else.
Yeah.

This apology is an implicit denial of a dogma.
What dogma?

Cardinal Dulles wrote a piece that focused to a large extent on the morality of slavery. Nathan Jacobs also has some interesting reflections, starting with this one.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Examination of conscience and the responsibility at the personal level. The national level may not be your fault and certainly
not those sins committed generations before you were born.
It’s not my fault that I had opportunities in education, housing and work while others were banned. I cant help it that I benefit to this day for those advantages the dominant culture and its systems provided. It seems to me that the only way to bring about justice is first to acknowledge that wrong has been done by the dominant culture of which I am a part and benefited.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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It’s not my fault that I had opportunities in education, housing and work while others were banned. I cant help it that I benefit to this day for those advantages the dominant culture and its systems provided. It seems to me that the only way to bring about justice is first to acknowledge that wrong has been done by the dominant culture of which I am a part and benefited.

You got opportunities in education, housing and work because you are not a minority?
Does this justify guilt for not being a minority? Does it justify making others pay
for your benefits?

You could've given up those benefits and given them to others whom you
feel have been oppressed. Does that make yourself a racist and now
you feel the need to punish others for it?

Such things have more to do with being part of the majority. Go to China and
see if being Chinese gets a person more opportunities than not being Chinese.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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You got opportunities in education, housing and work because you are not a minority?
Does this justify guilt for not being a minority? Does it justify making others pay
for your benefits?

You could've given up those benefits and given them to others whom you
feel have been oppressed. Does that make yourself a racist and now
you feel the need to punish others for it?

Such things have more to do with being part of the majority. Go to China and
see if being Chinese gets a person more opportunities than not being Chinese.
Where do you get “ punishment “?
I am talking simple acknowledgement. Now even that is shunned.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Where do you get “ punishment “?
I am talking simple acknowledgement. Now even that is shunned.
Acknowledgement without advocating that something be done is for what? To appease your
guilt for something you have no control over and probably nothing others are to blame for.

Understand that racism exist in ALL races and cultures. If you doubt it, you haven't experienced
racism from others who hated you because of your race.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Acknowledgement without advocating that something be done is for what? To appease your
guilt for something you have no control over and probably nothing others are to blame for.

Understand that racism exist in ALL races and cultures. If you doubt it, you haven't experienced
racism from others who hated you because of your race.
Let me check to see if I understand you correctly.: Since we today do not own slaves nor participated in slavery we have no need to acknowledge that it existed nor how we may gave benefited from racism as members of the dominant culture.

Is that close-to your view?

79. The idea of “social justice” helps us recognize that injustices do not arise solely from the wrong choices of individuals, but also from structures, mechanisms and economic and cultural systems that produce inequality almost automatically. Saint John Paul II spoke in this vein of structures of sin [108] that oppose God’s will and require a commitment to personal and social conversion. In this perspective, justice is not merely about the fairer distribution of resources or the correction of current injustices, but also assumes a restorative dimension. It aims to mend broken bonds and reintegrate those who have been excluded, taking into account the wounds caused by injustices, such as wars, colonialism, racial or gender discrimination, violence against entire peoples and exploitation. This may include restoring dignity and a voice to those who have been ignored, fostering processes of healing for collective memory, opposing discriminatory laws and practices, and providing concrete support to those who still bear the consequences of wrongs suffered in the past.
Magnifica Humanitas
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Let me check to see if I understand you correctly.: Since we today do not own slaves nor participated in slavery we have no need to acknowledge that it existed nor how we may gave benefited from racism as members of the dominant culture.

Is that close-to your view?
No, not at all! Slavery existed in every culture over the history of human beings and still exist today in some cultures.

The point is accepting that racism exist and arguing against it, won't make a racist change his/her position, but may even
cause more racism.

Being responsible for your own actions is what true freedom is about, regardless of which race you belong to.

Thomas Sowell has presented an accurate description of today's empathy on slavery.

St John Paul II statement on slavery was the result of himself being targeted because he was a white Catholic.
He was nearly killed when he was shot by a Muslim, because he was the head of the Catholic Church, which the
media has misrepresented, especially in the past 60 years.
 
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