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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
The utter failure of Christian influence.
- Thread starter Maine Progressive
- Start date
Leviathan-at-play
Psalm 104:26
Every one of Bella’s statements here are not only true but also should have been considered with care and wisdom before simply ricocheting back with a cheap “Not one bit is true” egoistic response. You don’t even think “You’re not his equal” is true? Not even a bit? This demonstrates why of all people you should not be in front of a weeks-long thread about how Christians have “failed”.
Please request this thread be closed. I’m tired of day after day seeing the “utter failure of Christian influence” cluttering up my view. There’s more than enough content here for you to gain wisdom from, if that’s even your goal.
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I’m glad you support Bella. She has a lot of good things to say. Also, you have every right to criticize me, though I believe you choose to misunderstand. However, there’s no need for you to continue to inflict yourself. You can block me. You must know that? Anyway, in my defense, first, I never have nor do I now, claim to be equal to God nor inerrant. That is something you have gratuitously chosen to misunderstand. Second, what I have claimed is Scripturally sound. Third, this forum is, by definition, a place to dialogue regarding our differences among ourselves as Christians. It is not my intent to demean anyone by noting where we have failed. It is just a prayer that we may seek to do better.
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lismore
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Hello! Yes, it's a sad fact that competition can be a facet of some of today's churches, competition for members and tithes. Trying to compete by making services more entertaining. I think it's related to 2 Timothy 4:3 : “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear”
If people don't like what a church is teaching they'll go to another church that teaches what they want to hear. A pastor might dilute what he's saying, to avoid losing people. However it's good on the opposite side of the coin, when churches can work together for the sake of the Kingdom and the gospel. But I have only seen this happening when churches are in extremis. 'Christian influence' can be subjective, but when we repent, humble ourselves and pray, then we might see the Holy Spirit's influence. God Bless
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Thanks. Well said!Hello! Yes, it's a sad fact that competition can be a facet of some of today's churches, competition for members and tithes. Trying to compete by making services more entertaining. I think it's related to 2 Timothy 4:3 : “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear”
If people don't like what a church is teaching they'll go to another church that teaches what they want to hear. A pastor might dilute what he's saying, to avoid losing people. However it's good on the opposite side of the coin, when churches can work together for the sake of the Kingdom and the gospel. But I have only seen this happening when churches are in extremis. 'Christian influence' can be subjective, but when we repent, humble ourselves and pray, then we might see the Holy Spirit's influence. God Bless
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- Jan 16, 2019
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You're attempting to debate an issue that's cut and dried. I included caveats in my response pertaining to coercion and force but beyond that sex outside of marriage (irrespective of age) is fornication. Just because you take offense at the public reception of teen pregnancy doesn't nullify the truth. It's fine to empathize and offer support when mistakes occur and we should. But we don't say God is wrong or it doesn't matter because they're teens.
I've seen the other side of this subject through former schoolmates. We were all adults and not married but the familial response set the tone. My family was disappointed and communicated their disapproval through silence. They didn't lecture me although my father was upset and asked about marriage and I said no. But my schoolmates had a different reception and little pushback. They didn't question their actions and the consequences were minimal. They continued having children with the hardships that followed. Their lives were chaotic and I stepped away.
I learned from my and my parents mistakes and was more hands on with my daughter. I addressed several topics including pregnancy and impressed the necessity of marriage before conception. But I didn't stop there. I told her why and explained the consequences of forgoing the rules and the price she'd pay. I didn't make it easy for her to be reckless or offer to smooth over her mistakes. I told her she'd walk it out and that was enough. Cause and effect were deeply ingrained and I impressed them at a young age.
Life isn't a get out of jail free card. The more you acquaint children with the realities of poor choices the better decisions they'll make in the long run. It's not enough to train a child in the way they should go. You have to mirror the things you teach.
~bella
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Look, right or wrong (and I have often been wrong) I see you in this group of Christians whose view of life, especially in relation to sex is, as you say, to actively "acquaint children with the realities of poor choices". Certainly. And it probably does enable them to make better choices. Yet this is a fact...those who rely entirely on that approach have less success overall for reducing teen age pregnancies. However pragmatic, I regard that as a failure...for the group as a whole. Some can make it work. As you surely have. And I give you all the credit for that. But, as a whole, this approach, on its own, leaves underage girls more vulnerable. And while one can point to their bad choices, I still feel that we who neglect to provide the resources and education which secular cultures provide, are failing our children. And however bad their choice was, society has no right to abandon them. That is cut and dried. But, and this is important to me, you are not obliged to deal with me. I do not like angering or distressing you with my faith. If you are offended, or weary, or exasperated or whatever, please block me.
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I don't know what facts you're citing but unless you're addressing your child or a situation where you know what's happening behind closed doors your information is incomplete. You can't judge a situation after the fact. You have to look at the environment and parenting up until that point.
What period are you referring to when girls were clueless? I'm from GenX and the Aids epidemic altered everything. Sex education and contraception were proactively addressed and that hasn't changed. My daughter's a millennial and we have the internet now. There's a plethora of information available on pregnancy prevention.
Society isn't obligated to assist and the government has abandoned them. That's the state of things today. How many have you adopted or fostered in light of your conviction?
~bella
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