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Doctrine of Unconditional Election

John Bauer

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I have made several posts clearly explaining why this position is widely disputed and rejected by most Christians who have taken it to its logical conclusion. I believe you know this so there is no sense for me to add any more to what has already been stated. I am affraid it has become fruitless.

Thanks for sharing!
Be blessed.

Ma’am, with all due respect, that did not defend a single one of the serious indictments you leveled against Calvinist theology, which is what my post explicitly asked you to do.

You alleged that unconditional election
  • leaves no room for a genuine relationship with God.
  • is a man-made doctrine.
  • produces an epistemological crisis, diminishing trust to something cold and cerebral.
  • creates a relational vacuum leading to persistent doubt.
And I also asked you to substantiate your claim that Reformed theology
  • separates God’s saving choice entirely from human response
Yes, I do know the doctrine of unconditional election is “widely disputed and rejected by most Christians,” but that point by itself doesn’t defend any of the indictments above. An appeal to how widely disputed a doctrine is doesn’t show that the doctrine produces the consequences you alleged. That appeal, by itself, is fruitless.

Please either defend the specific indictments you made above or acknowledge that they were bare assertions rather than arguments. That would be fruitful.
 
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Brightfame52

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Now in considering the bible teaching on unconditional election, we must consider its logical counterpart the doctrine of unconditional reprobation. Thats not to say the reprobate wont be punished justly for their sins in reprobation, however God sovereignly chose to exercise justice on them for their sins, as opposed to having sovereignly chose to exercise mercy towards the elect for their sins.

Now here are some biblical concepts for unconditional reprobation:

. First, God hath refused or rejected some particular persons, on whom he purposed never to have mercy; this is most evident from the Scriptures following. “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” John 10:26 “But the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.” Rom11:7. “Therefore hath he mercy, on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Rom 9:18

These are people whom God has purposed not to heal/save Jn 12:39-40

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.1
 
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Brightfame52

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If Election/Salvation was in any degree conditioned or contingent on what a person does, even thinks, then they could not be by Grace. Election is of Grace minus works Rom 9:11;11:5-6 and Salvation is the same Eph 2:8-9; 2 Tim 1:9 1
 
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Brightfame52

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One writer writes and I totally agree as it regards unconditional election:

.Those who are ordained unto eternal life were not so ordained on account of any worthiness foreseen in them, or of any good works to be wrought by them, nor yet for their future faith, but purely and solely of free, sovereign grace, and according to the mere pleasure of God. This is evident, among other considerations, from this: that faith, repentance and holiness are no less the free-gifts of God than eternal life itself. "Faith is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2.8). "Unto you it is given to believe" (Phil. 1.29). "Him hath God exalted with His right hand for to give repentance" (Acts 5.31). "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life" (Acts 11.18). In like manner holiness is called the sanctification of the Spirit (2 Thess. 2.13), because the Divine Spirit is the efficient of it in the soul, and, of unholy, makes us holy. Now, if repentance and faith are the gifts, and sanctification is the work of God, then these are not the fruits of man's free-will, nor what he acquires of himself, and so can neither be motives to, nor conditions of his election, which is an act of the Divine mind, antecedent to, and irrespective of all qualities whatever in the persons elected. Besides, the apostle asserts expressly that election is not of works, but of Him that calleth, and that it passed before the persons concerned had done either good or evil (Rom. 9.11).JEROME ZANCHIUS

Man has hijacked what are Gifts of Gods Salvation applied, like Faith and Repentance and made them conditions man is suppose to perform before God will choose or save them.
 
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Brightfame52

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The bible explicitly affirms that God has blessed His Chosen people according to the truth He chose them to be holy and blameless before the foundation of the world, because in themselves they were not holy nor blameless. He also predestinated them, not according to their will, but according to the good pleasure of His Will, that it would be to the PRAISE of the GLORY of HIS GRACE minus their works, unconditionally. Eph 1:3-6

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 2
 
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Jack Terrence

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Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !
Everybody knows that God was talking about NATIONS, not individuals (Genesis 25:23). Esau personally never served Jacob. It was the other way around.
 
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David Lamb

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Everybody knows that God was talking about NATIONS, not individuals (Genesis 25:23). Esau personally never served Jacob. It was the other way around.
When you write: "Everybody knows that God was talking about NATIONS, not individuals" do you mean that every time the Bible uses the word "elect" or "chosen" it is referring to nations, not individuals? What nation was Paul talking about to the Colossian believers?

(Col 3:12) Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;

He was calling them the elect of God, not their nation.
 
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Brightfame52

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Unconditional Election, the calling and predestination of certain people to Salvation before the world began Eph 1:4-5, this is Grace only. How is it that election of grace could be conditional before the world began, when no conditions by man could have been performed ? Man had not yet been Created, Adam had not yet been formed from the ground. How was any person Chosen to Salvation before the world began, if salvation is contingent upon his freewill to choose or believe first after the world began ? Also see Rom 9:11 2
 
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David1701

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Everybody knows that God was talking about NATIONS, not individuals (Genesis 25:23). Esau personally never served Jacob. It was the other way around.
Esau "served" Jacob, in that Jacob got his birthright and his blessing. In any case, it's very obvious that Romans 9, including the mentioned election, refers to individuals, not merely nations, since several individuals are named (e.g. Sarah, Rebecca, Isaac, Jacob, Esau, Moses and Pharaoh).

That Romans 9 is about the salvation of individuals is also very clear:

Rom. 9:15-24 (KJV)
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
 
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Brightfame52

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Election isn't conditioned on the saints believing, but the saint [believer] was chosen to be a saint[holy] Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now that word holy is the greek word hagios and means :

  1. most holy thing, a saint

Its the same greek word Paul uses in the introduction to whom hes writing Eh 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

And saints here are believers, the faithful, so they were chosen unto that end before the foundation, and not because they are believers, saints, or faithful.

Election of Grace is unconditional. 3
 
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Brightfame52

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Is Unconditional Election of only some to Salvation unfair ?

Lets see what one Gospel writer has stated:

Election is not about a man’s will, it is not about man choosing God, but about God choosing whomsoever He wills to be saved. Again, people see this as unfair. They say, ‘What chance do we have if God does the choosing?’ The elephant in the room which all lost men fail to see, is: no man has any chance to choose God, for they are all dead in trespasses and sins (see Eph.2:1,5; Rom. 3:9). God is the only hope, the only chance any lost, Hell-deserving sinner has. Man is not neutral, he is dead. God’s choosing to save some helpless and hopelessly unworthy people is the glory of God. God explains this as His Goodness: “And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy” (Ex. 33:19). The goodness of God is to be gracious to those whom He wills to be gracious, and to show mercy toward those whom He wills to be merciful. If you do not believe and abide in this doctrine, you do not have God. God’s choosing those to whom He would be merciful and gracious, IS GOD’S GOODNESS, not any display of unrighteousness on His part. Flee anyone and everyone who dares to claim that election is in any way unrighteous.

Let us now examine the question: “‘Is there unrighteousness with God?’ This is not an objection of Paul’s, but of an adversary, which he takes up and returns an answer to; and which itself greatly serves to settle and confirm the true sense and meaning of the apostle in this place; as that it could not be, that election and rejection of men should proceed according to their merits; or that God chooses some for their good works, and rejects others for their wicked works, because no man could ever pretend to charge God with unrighteousness on this account; nor could it be that God chose and rejected men, upon a foresight of their good and evil works, for this also would not be liable to such an objection; nor that the Jews, having made the law of none effect by their traditions, despised the Gospel, crucified Christ, and persecuted His disciples, are therefore cast off, and the Gentiles, being obedient both in word and deed, are received into favour, for this likewise would not be chargeable with unrighteousness by men; but that two persons, as Jacob and Esau, and the same may be said of all mankind, being upon an equal foot, not being yet born, nor having done either good or evil, an inequality, a difference is made between them, by God Himself; the one is chosen, the other passed by: now in this is some show, some pretence at least, for such an objection; nor is it any wonder to meet with it from the carnal reason of men; wherefore we may be sure that the latter, and not either of the former, is the true sense of the apostle; since only this, and not either of them, is liable to such an exception: let us attend to the apostle's answer, which is ‘first’ in his usual manner, by way of detestation and abhorrence, ‘God forbid’: God is not unrighteous in His nature; nor in any of His ways and works; nor in this, in choosing some and rejecting others. There is no unrighteousness with God in that part of predestination, commonly called election; for this is neither an act of justice, nor injustice; not of justice, but of grace and mercy; of undue and undeserved grace and mercy, of mere Sovereign grace and mercy; and is what God was not obliged to do; wherefore to choose some and not others, is no act of injustice; for injustice is a violation of justice, which has no place in this affair: if it is an act of injustice, it must be either to them that are chosen, or to them that are not; not to them that are chosen, to them it is an act of favour and good will, they are chosen to grace and glory, to holiness here, and happiness hereafter; not to them that are passed by, because they had no right nor claim to the grace and glory, which by this act are denied them, and therefore no injustice is done them.” Moreno Dal Bello By Grace Alone | godsonlygospel

What's being said is that No, unconditional election of some is not unfair, its not a matter of justice at all, but a matter of undeserved mercy 3
 
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Brightfame52

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What is Gods purpose according to election?

Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

What is Gods purpose according to election? The purpose of God according to election is that salvation be accomplished by the work of his Son, that his Son might be the Firstborn among many brethren, all the honor and glory of the Firstborn belongs to Christ

Rom 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
 
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Brightfame52

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Should we mention the doctrine of election to the unbeliever?

Some have told us that this great Biblical truth is an “in-house debate” and should not be brought up to the unbeliever. We should meet them at the place of their responsibility and never mention their inability we are told.

First, let me say with no uncertainty, the doctrine of election is not a “debate”. It is a biblical truth that is uncatagorically essential to the marvelous gospel of God’s free and sovereign grace. To deny election is to dethrone God. The gospel of “man’s free will” is another gospel. Read Galatians 1:6-10 to see what God says about that. The doctrine of election is not a “deep truth” that requires the exercised intellect of a trained theologian to comprehend. It is a simple truth that all of God’s children rejoice to believe.

Second, the scriptures give plenty of examples of this great truth not being “in-house”. Let me briefly mention just two. The first is none less than our Lord’s own evangelistic ministry. In Matthew 15, and Luke 7, we have recorded Jesus encounter with the Syrophenician woman. After pleading with the Lord for mercy on her demon possessed daughter, Jesus told her that He came for the lost sheep of Israel (the elect), and that He could not take the bread from the children and give it to the “dogs”. The Bible says, “she worshipped Him”. The Lord declared the doctrine of God’s sovereign election to bring this woman to understand her only hope was to bow in humble submission to the One who alone could save her. The second example is the conversion of the apostle Paul in Acts 9. God sends a disciple by the name of Ananias to confirm the gospel to this last and greatest (or least as he saw it ) apostle with the message of election; “he is a chosen vessel of mine” v.15.

The modem evangelistic appeal, devoid of God’s sovereign election, in essence, invites the unbeliever to “make a decision” without confronting them with the Sovereignty of God. It presents them with an “invitation”, an r.s.v.p… let them decide if and when they are ready. It feeds the pride of man. The true gospel message is one of sovereign grace that humbles the sinner to beg for a crumb of bread from the Master’s table. God gives grace to the humble. .’.He resists the proud. By Greg Elemquist 3 Should We Mention The Doctrine of Election To The Unbeliever?
 
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Jan001

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However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

1 Peter 1:2
God the Father chose you because of what he knew beforehand. He chose you through the Holy Spirit’s work of making you holy and because of the faithful obedience and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. May God’s grace and peace be multiplied to you.


God knew even before he created the world that Adam would sin and thereby lose eternal life for himself, Eve, and all their descendants. God is omniscient; he knows every detail about everything and everybody: past, present, and future.

Acts 2:23
In accordance with God’s established plan and foreknowledge, he
(Jesus) was betrayed. You, with the help of wicked men, had Jesus killed by nailing him to a cross.


Regarding Esau and Jacob, God knew before they were born that after they were born and grown, Esau, as the elder son, would sell his birthright to Jacob, his younger brother, for bread and lentil stew.

Genesis 25:27-33
When the young men grew up, Esau became an outdoorsman who knew how to hunt, and Jacob became a quiet man who stayed at home. 28 Isaac loved Esau because he enjoyed eating game, but Rebekah loved Jacob. 29 Once when Jacob was boiling stew, Esau came in from the field hungry 30 and said to Jacob, “I’m starving! Let me devour some of this red stuff.” That’s why his name is Edom.
31 Jacob said, “Sell me your birthright today.”
32 Esau said, “Since I’m going to die anyway, what good is my birthright to me?”
33 Jacob said, “Give me your word today.” And he did. He sold his birthright to Jacob. 34 So Jacob gave Esau bread and lentil stew. He ate, drank, got up, and left, showing just how little he thought of his birthright.


Before Jacob was born, God chose him, who he knew would be the clever and determined grandson of Abraham, to fulfill his promise to make Abraham's descendants "as many as the stars in the sky." God changed Jacob's name to Israel, and his descendants were called the Israelites. Genesis 22:17
 
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Brightfame52

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Before Jacob was born, God chose him, who he knew would be the clever and determined grandson of Abraham, to fulfill his promise to make Abraham's descendants "as many as the stars in the sky." God changed Jacob's name to Israel, and his descendants were called the Israelites. Genesis 22:17
That contradicts Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
 
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Jan001

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That contradicts Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

God did not call Jacob to be the patriarch of the Israelites because of any good works that he had already done. He was called because of God's foreknowledge about his future character and his future works.
 
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Brightfame52

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God did not call Jacob to be the patriarch of the Israelites because of any good works that he had already done. He was called because of God's foreknowledge about his future character and his future works.
lol You dont get it
 
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Jan001

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lol You dont get it

God doesn't force people to do evil, and he doesn't prevent people from doing good. God knew what every person would do under every circumstance presented to him before God created him.

God knew before Saul was born that he would be zealous to please God, and so he intervened when Saul was on the road to Damascus. God blinded him with flashes of light to capture his attention. Saul was later told that he should redirect his zealousness to spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ instead of continuing to persecute Christians. After Saul's conversion, he used his Roman name, Paul.
Acts 9:1-6


Galatians 1:13-16
You have heard, no doubt, of my earlier life in Judaism. I was violently persecuting the church of God and was trying to destroy it. 14 I advanced in Judaism beyond many among my people of the same age, for I was far more zealous for the traditions of my ancestors. 15 But when God, who had set me apart before I was born and called me through his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son to me, so that I might proclaim him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with any human being, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were already apostles before me, but I went away at once into Arabia, and afterwards I returned to Damascus.
 
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