• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

1 Corinthians 12:13. Is This The Baptism Of The Holy Spirit?

Aussie52

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2018
427
209
73
Sydney
✟73,378.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
'For by one Sprit we were all baptized into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit' NKJB.

For years now, I have read and heard preached, that this verse was about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I have been told that Spirit Baptism incorporates the believer into the Body of Christ at conversion.
Recently, I have been studying references to Spirit Baptism in the Gospels and Book of Acts and have been challenged that the above verse and its explanation, is not Spirit Baptism.
The subject is first mentioned in Mt 3:11. John the Baptist declares,
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier that I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.'
This is variously repeated in Mk 1:8, Lk 3:16, Acts 1:5.
From the Acts 1:5 reference, the event on the day of Pentecost was the fulfillment of John's prophecy
From the Acts we can determine something of the nature of Spirit Baptism.
1.The disciples would receive power for evangelism. 1:8.
2.they would also receive purification of their hearts from moral impurity. 15:8,9.

This all seems vastly different to what Paul was describing in 1 Cor 12:13!

Add to this the events in Acts of those receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
*Pentecost. The disciples are baptized with the Holy Spirit, subsequent to their conversion. Act 2.
*Samaria. The converts receive the Holy Spirit, subsequent to their conversions. 8:4-25.
*Saul. Saul/Paul is filled with the Holy Spirit subsequent to his conversion.
*Cornelius & Household. There is some uncertainty of the time of their conversion, but I think Cornelius was possibly converted, if so, Spirit Baptism was subsequent to conversion. 10:44-48.
*Ephesus. These men were called 'disciples', Paul assumed they were regenerated. They received the Holy Spirit subsequent to conversion. 19:1-10.

If Spirit Baptism happens at conversion and is an incorporation into the Body of Christ, it doesn't tally with the events in Acts.

So how do I reconcile the two accounts?
Perhaps the New English Bible's translation of 1 Cor 12:13 may help.
'For indeed we were all brought into one body by baptism, in the one Spirit, whether we are Jews or Greeks, whether slaves of free men, and that one Holy Spirit was poured out for all of us to drink'.

Translated this way it can be a picture of water baptism such as Paul describes in Rom 6:3-5.

So, in relation to our text, 1Cor 12:13.
1.It is not the same as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in the Gospels and experienced in the Book of Acts.
2. It could be a reference to water baptism, symbolizing our incorporation into the Body of Christ. Calvin's view.
3. It is a separate baptism, placing believers into the body of Christ at conversion but is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I looked up my old friend Adam Clarke who wrote, ' On this verse there is a great profusion of various readings'.

Any comments?
 
Last edited:

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
12,289
10,228
66
Martinez
✟1,297,782.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
'For by one Sprit we were all baptized into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit' NKJB.

For years now, I have read and heard preached, that this verse was about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I have been told that Spirit Baptism incorporates the believer into the Body of Christ at conversion.
Recently, I have been studying references to Spirit Baptism in the Gospels and Book of Acts and have been challenged that the above verse and its explanation, is not Spirit Baptism.
The subject is first mentioned in Mt 3:11. John the Baptist declares,
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier that I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.'
This is variously repeated in Mk 1:8, Lk 3:16, Acts 1:5.
From the Acts 1:5 reference, the event on the day of Pentecost was the fulfillment of John's prophecy
From the Acts we can determine something of the nature of Spirit Baptism.
1.The disciples would receive power for evangelism. 1:8.
2.they would also receive purification of their hearts from moral impurity. 15:8,9.

This all seems vastly different to what Paul was describing in 1 Cor 12:13!

Add to this the events in Acts of those receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
*Pentecost. The disciples are baptized with the Holy Spirit, subsequent to their conversion. Act 2.
*Samaria. The converts receive the Holy Spirit, subsequent to their conversions. 8:4-25.
*Saul. Saul/Paul is filled with the Holy Spirit subsequent to his conversion.
*Cornelius & Household. There is some uncertainty of the time of their conversion, but I think Cornelius was possibly converted, if so, Spirit Baptism was subsequent to conversion. 10:44-48.
*Ephesus. These men were called 'disciples', Paul assumed they were regenerated. They received the Holy Spirit subsequent to conversion. 19:1-10.

If Spirit Baptism happens at conversion and is an incorporation into the Body of Christ, it doesn't tally with the events in Acts.

So how do I reconcile the two accounts?
Perhaps the New English Bible's translation of 1 Cor 12:13 may help.
'For indeed we were all brought into one body by baptism, in the one Spirit, whether we are Jews or Greeks, whether slaves of free men, and that one Holy Spirit was poured out for all of us to drink'.

Translated this way it can be a picture of water baptism such as Paul describes in Rom 6:3-5.

So, in relation to our text, 1Cor 12:13.
1.It is not the same as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in the Gospels and experienced in the Book of Acts.
2. It could be a reference to water baptism, symbolizing our incorporation into the Body of Christ. Calvin's view.
3. It is a separate baptism, placing believers into the body of Christ at conversion but is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I looked up my old friend Adam Clarke who wrote, ' On this verse there is a great profusion of various readings'.

Any comments?
If we look at His Holy Spirit Baptism as an "authoritative seal"instead of a separate act after conversion we may be able to understand more clearly.
We need to go back in scripture( just before the Day of Pentecost) and realize that there were many believers before His Holy Spirit was even released upon the earth. These people were saved even though His Holy Spirit was not available. So we can safely say they were saved by their faith. Now we move on to Acts , the Day of Pentecost, where His Holy Spirit for the very first time came down and "filled" these exact same people with His Holy Spirit and to what purpose? Jesus Christ of Nazareth tells us:

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." — John 14:26

"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me." — John 15:26

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged." — John 16:7–11

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you." — John 16:13–14


From these verses we can derive the purpose. His Holy Spirit is a " Helper "who teaches all things, brings remembrance, guilds the believer to all truth, testifies on behalf of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, convicts the world of sin, reveals righteousness and judgment, glorifies Jesus Christ of Nazareth and most importantly, empowers the believer to speak in His name and authority.
This is the purpose and in addition to this He gives tools to accomplish the purpose known as " gifts". These gifts are:

* Wisdom
* Understanding
* Counsel
* Might
* Knowledge
* Fear of the Lord
* The word of wisdom
* The word of knowledge
* Faith
* Gifts of healings
* The working of miracles
* Prophecy
* Discerning of spirits
* Different kinds of tongues
* The interpretation of tongues
* Ministry
* Teaching
* Exhorting
* Giving
* Leading
* Showing mercy

Now that I have laid down the foundation , I will address the three possible interpretations you have laid out in your post.

1.It is not the same as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in the Gospels and experienced in the Book of Acts.

It is the same Spirit everywhere.

2. It could be a reference to water baptism, symbolizing our incorporation into the Body of Christ. Calvin's view.

It is not by water, It is by Spirit that we gain such power and authority in His Name.

3. It is a separate baptism, placing believers into the body of Christ at conversion but is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It is the same Spirit everywhere.

Hope this helps.
Be blessed.
 
Upvote 0

Aussie52

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2018
427
209
73
Sydney
✟73,378.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If we look at His Holy Spirit Baptism as an "authoritative seal"instead of a separate act after conversion we may be able to understand more clearly.
We need to go back in scripture( just before the Day of Pentecost) and realize that there were many believers before His Holy Spirit was even released upon the earth. These people were saved even though His Holy Spirit was not available. So we can safely say they were saved by their faith. Now we move on to Acts , the Day of Pentecost, where His Holy Spirit for the very first time came down and "filled" these exact same people with His Holy Spirit and to what purpose? Jesus Christ of Nazareth tells us:

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." — John 14:26

"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me." — John 15:26

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged." — John 16:7–11

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you." — John 16:13–14


From these verses we can derive the purpose. His Holy Spirit is a " Helper "who teaches all things, brings remembrance, guilds the believer to all truth, testifies on behalf of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, convicts the world of sin, reveals righteousness and judgment, glorifies Jesus Christ of Nazareth and most importantly, empowers the believer to speak in His name and authority.
This is the purpose and in addition to this He gives tools to accomplish the purpose known as " gifts". These gifts are:

* Wisdom
* Understanding
* Counsel
* Might
* Knowledge
* Fear of the Lord
* The word of wisdom
* The word of knowledge
* Faith
* Gifts of healings
* The working of miracles
* Prophecy
* Discerning of spirits
* Different kinds of tongues
* The interpretation of tongues
* Ministry
* Teaching
* Exhorting
* Giving
* Leading
* Showing mercy

Now that I have laid down the foundation , I will address the three possible interpretations you have laid out in your post.

1.It is not the same as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in the Gospels and experienced in the Book of Acts.

It is the same Spirit everywhere.

2. It could be a reference to water baptism, symbolizing our incorporation into the Body of Christ. Calvin's view.

It is not by water, It is by Spirit that we gain such power and authority in His Name.

3. It is a separate baptism, placing believers into the body of Christ at conversion but is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It is the same Spirit everywhere.

Hope this helps.
Be blessed.
Thanks for your reply Maria.

Going through your comments. I would say that the Holly Spirit has been present and active in this world since Creation. However, He came in a special and new way at Pentecost. We now can experience His presence and workings in our lives in a way that the Old Testament saints couldn't.

In regard to 1Cor 12;13. I think that a close study of Scripture shows that it is a different baptism to that experienced on the day of Pentecost and the other outpourings of the Spirit mentioned in Acts.

As to whether 1 Cor 12:13 could possibly be water baptism, I am undecided.

Where we differ, let us agree to disagree.

Blessings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pioneer3mm
Upvote 0

Christ's Bride

Active Member
Jun 3, 2026
29
4
85
Brooksville
✟475.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
If we look at His Holy Spirit Baptism as an "authoritative seal"instead of a separate act after conversion we may be able to understand more clearly.
We need to go back in scripture( just before the Day of Pentecost) and realize that there were many believers before His Holy Spirit was even released upon the earth. These people were saved even though His Holy Spirit was not available. So we can safely say they were saved by their faith. Now we move on to Acts , the Day of Pentecost, where His Holy Spirit for the very first time came down and "filled" these exact same people with His Holy Spirit and to what purpose? Jesus Christ of Nazareth tells us:

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." — John 14:26

"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me." — John 15:26

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged." — John 16:7–11

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you." — John 16:13–14


From these verses we can derive the purpose. His Holy Spirit is a " Helper "who teaches all things, brings remembrance, guilds the believer to all truth, testifies on behalf of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, convicts the world of sin, reveals righteousness and judgment, glorifies Jesus Christ of Nazareth and most importantly, empowers the believer to speak in His name and authority.
This is the purpose and in addition to this He gives tools to accomplish the purpose known as " gifts". These gifts are:

* Wisdom
* Understanding
* Counsel
* Might
* Knowledge
* Fear of the Lord
* The word of wisdom
* The word of knowledge
* Faith
* Gifts of healings
* The working of miracles
* Prophecy
* Discerning of spirits
* Different kinds of tongues
* The interpretation of tongues
* Ministry
* Teaching
* Exhorting
* Giving
* Leading
* Showing mercy

Now that I have laid down the foundation , I will address the three possible interpretations you have laid out in your post.

1.It is not the same as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in the Gospels and experienced in the Book of Acts.

It is the same Spirit everywhere.

2. It could be a reference to water baptism, symbolizing our incorporation into the Body of Christ. Calvin's view.

It is not by water, It is by Spirit that we gain such power and authority in His Name.

3. It is a separate baptism, placing believers into the body of Christ at conversion but is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It is the same Spirit everywhere.

Hope this helps.
Be blessed.

Christ told the 120 to wait for the "Promise of the Father".
At day 50, the 120 assembled on the Feast of Pentecost.

Then God the Father pour out HIS One Spirit on the 120 at 9AM which is the time of the Morning Daily Sacrifice. Why?

From Adam until that Pentecost only a very few had the Holy Spirit in them. Saul had the Spirit taken from him and Christ gave it to David, the prophets of God had the Holy Spirit.
The Old Covenant did not offer the Holy Spirit nor eternal life, only physical blessings like protection and weather.
What was the results --- no one could obey, all sinned.

At the time of Christ, only John the Baptist and Jesus Christ had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, Christ had the Spirit without measure and was able to live a sinless life to become our Passover

The New Covenant Christ instituted, offers the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and eternal life with the Torah in our minds and hearts/nature. Jeremiah 31: 33
Why? without the power of God's ONE Spirit in a person, none can over come sin, we are told the first step is repentance -- repenting from sin is only possible by the Power of God in us. Christ was clear; there are none good - no not one.

none can grow into the perfection of Jesus Christ without God's Spirit. Overcoming our human nature and Satan is only possible by that ONE Spirit. Conversion of our human nature comes only by the power of the Father working in the person by HIS Spirit.

Once a repentant person is 'impregnated', the spirit must dwell in us, by the Father with that ONE Spirit they become sons of the Father and by the power the Spirit, that person can begin to live that one narrow way difficult only the few find.

How is that ONE Spirit put in a person?
Acts 8
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. )
17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
 
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
12,289
10,228
66
Martinez
✟1,297,782.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christ told the 120 to wait for the "Promise of the Father".
At day 50, the 120 assembled on the Feast of Pentecost.

Then God the Father pour out HIS One Spirit on the 120 at 9AM which is the time of the Morning Daily Sacrifice. Why?

From Adam until that Pentecost only a very few had the Holy Spirit in them. Saul had the Spirit taken from him and Christ gave it to David, the prophets of God had the Holy Spirit.
The Old Covenant did not offer the Holy Spirit nor eternal life, only physical blessings like protection and weather.
What was the results --- no one could obey, all sinned.

At the time of Christ, only John the Baptist and Jesus Christ had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, Christ had the Spirit without measure and was able to live a sinless life to become our Passover

The New Covenant Christ instituted, offers the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and eternal life with the Torah in our minds and hearts/nature. Jeremiah 31: 33
Why? without the power of God's ONE Spirit in a person, none can over come sin, we are told the first step is repentance -- repenting from sin is only possible by the Power of God in us. Christ was clear; there are none good - no not one.

none can grow into the perfection of Jesus Christ without God's Spirit. Overcoming our human nature and Satan is only possible by that ONE Spirit. Conversion of our human nature comes only by the power of the Father working in the person by HIS Spirit.

Once a repentant person is 'impregnated', the spirit must dwell in us, by the Father with that ONE Spirit they become sons of the Father and by the power the Spirit, that person can begin to live that one narrow way difficult only the few find.

How is that ONE Spirit put in a person?
Acts 8
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. )
17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
Thanks for sharing. I agree except we do not get " impregnated " we get regenerated. He makes His Home in us.
Be blessed.
 
Upvote 0

Christ's Bride

Active Member
Jun 3, 2026
29
4
85
Brooksville
✟475.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Thanks for sharing. I agree except we do not get " impregnated " we get regenerated. He makes His Home in us.
Be blessed.

35 And the angel answered and said unto her,

The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

The Father "became The Father" of Christ by impregnating Mary by, HIS, Holy Spirit.

The spiritual can and should be understood by the physical.

For a birth, a seed must be implanted

The Father's seed is His Spirit, 24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

We are called the Sons of God!! why ? the Father, not Christ, impregnates us with HIS ONE SPIRIT, thus is our FATHER

We then become a spiritual fetus waiting to be BORN, not made - no longer made, from above in to Spirit

Philippians 3
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body,
according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

If the Holy Spirit was not the seed, then is it the father? The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee,

For my mind to understand, I must understand all scripture logically and all scripture, related, must be assembled before understanding can come.

Our Father is not our father just because He says He is, we will be of HIS SEED exactly as Christ is of that ONE Spirit. that raised Him for death.
 
Upvote 0