• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Reform UK most-supported party among gay and bi men, new poll shows

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,912
17,715
Here
✟1,624,928.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others


Reform UK is now the most popular political party in Britain among gay and bisexual men, according to new polling.

New figures from More in Common found that 25% of the gay and bisexual men across all age groups back Nigel Farage’s party. That puts Reform six points ahead of the next most popular option, Zack Polanski’s Greens, and seven points ahead of the Labour Party. The pollster also places Reform on 30% of the vote nationally, giving it a 10-point lead over both Labour and the Conservative Party.

The polling by sexuality, carried out at the end of last year but published this week, surveyed almost 9,000 adults across England, Wales and Scotland. As well as its support among gay and bisexual men, Reform is also by far the most popular party among heterosexual males. Of this group, 33% back Farage’s party — 11 points ahead of Labour and 26 ahead of the Greens.

Strikingly, Reform is the most popular choice among heterosexual women, of whom 29% intend to vote for the party.




This should make for a rather interesting discussion, as conventionally speaking (at least here within the US perspective), a far-right populist party would be assumed to be the least popular party among that particular demographic.

Any thoughts as to why this is?

I'll toss out my theory. Immigration from majority Islam countries has been a bigger challenge in Europe than it's been in the US. Both in terms of quantity (relative to the existing population size) as well as on the assimilation aspect. I don't think it's any big secret that that particular ideology arguably has the most regressive track record on those kinds of issues. The Reform party over there (from what I've read and observed) seems to be the only party that's pushing back hard on it.
 

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
28,959
20,516
Colorado
✟578,488.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
......
New figures from More in Common found that 25% of the gay and bisexual men across all age groups back Nigel Farage’s party. That puts Reform six points ahead of the next most popular option, Zack Polanski’s Greens, and seven points ahead of the Labour Party. The pollster also places Reform on 30% of the vote nationally, giving it a 10-point lead over both Labour and the Conservative Party.
......
Any thoughts as to why this is?
So gay men back "Reform" less than the national average? Ok.

And its miles from a majority. Perhaps "Reform" is one of a kind minority, while Greens, Labor, etc split the more moderate majority.

Now, back to why any gay guys support reform (at less than the national average) yeah it could well be a justified fear of conservative Islamic attitudes. Thats a guess tho, being niether gay nor British.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,912
17,715
Here
✟1,624,928.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
So gay men back "Reform" less than the national average? Ok.

And its miles from a majority. Perhaps "Reform" is one of a kind minority, while Greens, Labor, etc split the more moderate majority.

Now, back to why any gay guys support reform (at less than the national average) yeah it could well be a justified fear of conservative Islamic attitudes. Thats a guess tho, being niether gay nor British.
It's not a pure majority, but it's more than the other parties are getting.

For lack of a better comparison, it'd be like if here in the US, people in the anti-gun camp started backing the libertarian party at a higher percentage than the Greens, Democrats, and Republicans, it would seem oddly out of sorts with what one would expect.

At which point, one would have to look for extraneous policy proposals outside of that issue to figure out what the appeal is.

Obviously with our system here, people tend to congregate around one of the two major parties and end up adopting the other views of that party. For instance, you don't really see too many people who are staunchly pro-choice, but against gay marriage, and you don't really see people who are staunchly pro-gun, but want us to have socialized healthcare.

The parliamentary system tends to allow for a little more diversity of thought due to how much coalition building is required.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
28,959
20,516
Colorado
✟578,488.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
It's not a pure majority, but it's more than the other parties are getting.

For lack of a better comparison, it'd be like if here in the US, people in the anti-gun camp started backing the libertarian party at a higher percentage than the Greens, Democrats, and Republicans, it would seem oddly out of sorts with what one would expect.
Does "Reform" hold policies antagonistic to gay peoples freedom there?
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,912
17,715
Here
✟1,624,928.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Does "Reform" hold policies antagonistic to gay peoples freedom there?
It's my understanding that they do to a degree (if the facebook posts I see have any merit to them at all)

However, if they're the only party that takes on an entity that the group in question feels has the potential to be even more antagonistic (which I noted in my original theory), that could explain it.
 
Upvote 0

GoldenBoy89

Abolish ICE
Sep 25, 2012
28,223
31,268
LA
✟707,382.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I’m not sure but I think the UK’s right wing is more about British nationalism and specifically euro-skepticism than the US’s much more sexual purity obsessed evangelical right wing. I think in general, Europeans have a much more liberal attitude towards sex and same sex than we do here in the US.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,912
17,715
Here
✟1,624,928.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I’m not sure but I think the UK’s right wing is more about British nationalism and specifically euro-skepticism than the US’s much more sexual purity obsessed evangelical right wing. I think in general, Europeans have a much more liberal attitude towards sex and same sex than we do here in the US.
They are to the left of us on certain social issues as a whole (their Overton window is to the left of ours)

But that particular party's leader (Farage) has made comments suggesting that he didn't agree with gay marriage. He publicly said that he thought gay marriage was "wrong" on a televised interview in response to the Britain legalizing SSM.


His rhetoric mirrored some of that we'd expect republicans here to say about it.


If, in the US, the GOP was leading by 6-7 points over the Democratic party among gay men, that would be a "sound the alarm" situation over at the DNC headquarters and cause them to reflect on their position on other prevalent issues.

If a cohort of voters have stronger support numbers for a party that says "we don't think you should be allowed to get married" than the party(s) that go out of their way to be seen as an "ally", that means they're doing something seriously out of bounds on some other unrelated issue.


If an animal rights activist was polling worse among vegans than a guy who owns a steakhouse, that animal rights activist should want to know why...
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Reconstruction 3 will come
Mar 11, 2017
25,826
18,657
56
USA
✟485,208.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat


Reform UK is now the most popular political party in Britain among gay and bisexual men, according to new polling.

New figures from More in Common found that 25% of the gay and bisexual men across all age groups back Nigel Farage’s party. That puts Reform six points ahead of the next most popular option, Zack Polanski’s Greens, and seven points ahead of the Labour Party. The pollster also places Reform on 30% of the vote nationally, giving it a 10-point lead over both Labour and the Conservative Party.

The polling by sexuality, carried out at the end of last year but published this week, surveyed almost 9,000 adults across England, Wales and Scotland. As well as its support among gay and bisexual men, Reform is also by far the most popular party among heterosexual males. Of this group, 33% back Farage’s party — 11 points ahead of Labour and 26 ahead of the Greens.

Strikingly, Reform is the most popular choice among heterosexual women, of whom 29% intend to vote for the party.




This should make for a rather interesting discussion, as conventionally speaking (at least here within the US perspective), a far-right populist party would be assumed to be the least popular party among that particular demographic.

Any thoughts as to why this is?

I'll toss out my theory. Immigration from majority Islam countries has been a bigger challenge in Europe than it's been in the US. Both in terms of quantity (relative to the existing population size) as well as on the assimilation aspect. I don't think it's any big secret that that particular ideology arguably has the most regressive track record on those kinds of issues. The Reform party over there (from what I've read and observed) seems to be the only party that's pushing back hard on it.
Hmm. Maybe this is because "Reform" is not built on evangelical social values, but on xenophobia.
 
Upvote 0

Nithavela

you're in charge you can do it just get louis
Apr 14, 2007
32,054
23,698
Comb. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell/Jamaica Avenue.
✟637,238.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
Some people vote against their interest when they believe that they can hurt those they dislike more than they themselves are hurt.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,912
17,715
Here
✟1,624,928.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Hmm. Maybe this is because "Reform" is not built on evangelical social values, but on xenophobia.
Some people vote against their interest when they believe that they can hurt those they dislike more than they themselves are hurt.
I don't know if the concerns gay men would have with a lot of Middle Eastern refugees being brought in would qualify as your stereotypical "xenophobia" or even a desire to "hurt" anyone else as much as it would be a "lesser of two evils" kind of decision making process.

As I noted, based on the polling as well as the report from the MIT link I posted earlier, the assimilation challenges in places like the UK and France are different (more challenging) than the here in the US.




I think a group having the particular concern of:
"Hey, there's this particular group, where 96% say my relationships are morally unacceptable, and 52% go as far as saying it should be banned, and the other 3 parties are seemingly trying to open the flood gates to allow more people from that particular group into the country" doesn't fall into the stereotypical "I just hate them because they're different. Period" types of xenophobia we're perhaps more used to seeing among some in the US.

I would imagine for some gay voters in the UK, strict immigration limits on people from Islamic countries are seen as protecting some of the liberal social norms they depend on, even if Reform's own record on LGBTQ rights are mixed.
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
1,416
563
Kristianstad
✟43,092.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private


Reform UK is now the most popular political party in Britain among gay and bisexual men, according to new polling.

New figures from More in Common found that 25% of the gay and bisexual men across all age groups back Nigel Farage’s party. That puts Reform six points ahead of the next most popular option, Zack Polanski’s Greens, and seven points ahead of the Labour Party. The pollster also places Reform on 30% of the vote nationally, giving it a 10-point lead over both Labour and the Conservative Party.

The polling by sexuality, carried out at the end of last year but published this week, surveyed almost 9,000 adults across England, Wales and Scotland. As well as its support among gay and bisexual men, Reform is also by far the most popular party among heterosexual males. Of this group, 33% back Farage’s party — 11 points ahead of Labour and 26 ahead of the Greens.

Strikingly, Reform is the most popular choice among heterosexual women, of whom 29% intend to vote for the party.




This should make for a rather interesting discussion, as conventionally speaking (at least here within the US perspective), a far-right populist party would be assumed to be the least popular party among that particular demographic.

Any thoughts as to why this is?

I'll toss out my theory. Immigration from majority Islam countries has been a bigger challenge in Europe than it's been in the US. Both in terms of quantity (relative to the existing population size) as well as on the assimilation aspect. I don't think it's any big secret that that particular ideology arguably has the most regressive track record on those kinds of issues. The Reform party over there (from what I've read and observed) seems to be the only party that's pushing back hard on it.

So gay and bisexual men and women are less inclined to vote for Reform than straight men and straight women (25% vs 12 % vs 33% vs 29%). So whatever else is found to be a reason to express support for Reform, it is reduced by being gay or bisexual. There are obviously gay and bisexual men who are ok with Reform's policies. This is a nothing discussion.

1780575855895.png




Excel file can be found here:


Scroll down to here:

1780576108296.png




Parties have whole party programs and election manifestos, when they go to elections.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Reconstruction 3 will come
Mar 11, 2017
25,826
18,657
56
USA
✟485,208.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
I don't know if the concerns gay men would have with a lot of Middle Eastern refugees being brought in would qualify as your stereotypical "xenophobia" or even a desire to "hurt" anyone else as much as it would be a "lesser of two evils" kind of decision making process.

As I noted, based on the polling as well as the report from the MIT link I posted earlier, the assimilation challenges in places like the UK and France are different (more challenging) than the here in the US.




I think a group having the particular concern of:
"Hey, there's this particular group, where 96% say my relationships are morally unacceptable, and 52% go as far as saying it should be banned, and the other 3 parties are seemingly trying to open the flood gates to allow more people from that particular group into the country" doesn't fall into the stereotypical "I just hate them because they're different. Period" types of xenophobia we're perhaps more used to seeing among some in the US.

I would imagine for some gay voters in the UK, strict immigration limits on people from Islamic countries are seen as protecting some of the liberal social norms they depend on, even if Reform's own record on LGBTQ rights are mixed.

I'm not sure what is going on here. Perhaps interpreting data is not your thing.

Your original post show 25% support for "Reform" from gay men and 30% for the whole population. Clearly gay men were not more enthusiastic about "Reform" than the whole population (the error of measurement has to be fairly large). I offered a reasonable explanation ("Reform" not like US X-Nat politics) which fit with what I have observed over the years from UK polyticks.

Now @Stopped_lurking has posted a full table of party support for male/female, gay/straight and we can see that the sample size is small (as expected) leading to potentially large sampling errors, but also that gay men have different politics than straight men, just not radically so.

I asked the Googs and it tossed up this quote:

The Reform Party believes that social and cultural issues (i.e., abortion, gay marriage, end-of-life decisions, and similar topics) should not be our focus as a party. Reform Party members and candidates may hold their own positions, with the understanding that they do not speak for the party on these issues.​
To be consistent with our desire for a limited and well-focused government, the Reform Party does not believe that laws and regulations should dictate medical decisions, how relationships are formed, or the activities of groups or individuals that do not infringe on the rights of non-participants.​

from the party's own page:


A whole thread that could have been avoided by reading the source of your original post and doing the smallest amount of searching.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,912
17,715
Here
✟1,624,928.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I'm not sure what is going on here. Perhaps interpreting data is not your thing.

Your original post show 25% support for "Reform" from gay men and 30% for the whole population. Clearly gay men were not more enthusiastic about "Reform" than the whole population (the error of measurement has to be fairly large). I offered a reasonable explanation ("Reform" not like US X-Nat politics) which fit with what I have observed over the years from UK polyticks.

That's not what I was highlighting, what I was highlighting was that 25% supported Reform, while only a smaller percentage support the Greens and Labour.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
28,959
20,516
Colorado
✟578,488.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
That's not what I was highlighting, what I was highlighting was that 25% supported Reform, while only a smaller percentage support the Greens and Labour.
Consistent with the rest of the population, except even less so.

If you get my meaning.

And it seems like "Reform" is not nearly as antagonistic to sexual identity issues as the American right wing is here. So there's more lattitude to engage in nationalism if thats your thing.
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
1,416
563
Kristianstad
✟43,092.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
That's not what I was highlighting, what I was highlighting was that 25% supported Reform, while only a smaller percentage support the Greens and Labour.
It only shows that gay and bisexual men are quite alike straight men when it comes to expressing an intention to vote for Reform. It has nothing to do with them being gay or bisexual, as evidenced by gay and bisexual women. Just as for gay and bisexual women, gay and bisexual men are less like to report an intention to vote for Reform. Being gay or bisexual does reduce the propensity to report an intention to vote for Reform, regardless of sex.

Also 75% did not support Reform.

Your proposed mechanism is not supported by the data.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0