Imputed Righteousness. The True & The False.

David1701 · Monday at 4:20 PM

Jan001 said:
God doesn't force people to believe in him, and he doesn't prevent people from believing in him. We either choose to cooperate with his grace or not.

Joshua 24:15
Now if you are unwilling to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served in the region beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

1 Timothy 4:16
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Jesus clearly stated that he sometimes did make absolutely sure that certain people would not believe in him.

Mark 4:11,12 (W.E.B.)
11 He said to them, “To you is given the mystery of the Kingdom of God, but to those who are outside, all things are done in parables,
12 that ‘seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest perhaps they should turn again, and their sins should be forgiven them.’”

On the other hand, the Bible is also clear that faith is a gift from God.

Phil. 1:29 (A.V.) For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

2 Pet. 1:1 (W.E.B.) Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

The word translated "obtained", in 2 Pet. 1:1, means "obtained by lot".

The passage in Joshua is a sarcastic call for the Israelites to choose between two sets of idols, if they are unwilling to serve the LORD. You should also note that it was under law; and faith is not even mentioned.

1 Tim. 4:16 is not a straightforward verse; and it is certainly not about works salvation. It refers to paying heed to himself, delivering himself from the trouble that would accompany carelessness; and to continue his teaching, which would help to save the hearers from false teachings and practices, with their attendant problems.

David1701 · Monday at 4:22 PM

Jan001 said:
I believe that if the Holy Spirit is dwelling in a person, he may have hope of eternal life after he dies. Until he dies and is judged, he cannot be sure he will enter eternal life.

Titus 3:6-8
his Spirit he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 The saying is sure.
I desire that you insist on these things, so that those who have come to believe in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works; these things are excellent and profitable to everyone.

Titus 1:1-2
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God’s elect and the knowledge of the truth that is in accordance with godliness, 2 in the hope of eternal life that God, who never lies, promised before the ages began—

I agree with those, but you missed an important one:

Belief requires obedience to God's commandments.

Hebrews 5:9
and having been made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him,

2 Thessalonians 1:7b-9
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

"Disobedience" to the law of Christ is "unbelief."

Law of Christ:

Galatians 6:2
Bear one another’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

1 Timothy 5:8
And whoever does not provide for relatives, and especially for family members, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

It seems to me that John 5:24 doesn't clearly explain that "believes" means "obeys"; therefore, many people will perish because of their lack of understanding about this scripture verse.

John 5:24
Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.

In the New Testament, "hope" refers to steadfast confidence for the future, not to wishful thinking.

To obey Jesus is to have faith in him.

Carl Emerson · Monday at 5:21 PM

Jan001 said:
Scripture, please?

Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Carl Emerson · Monday at 5:25 PM

Jan001 said:
I have changed my mind. Thank you for your input.

I agree with you that Satan believed Jesus was God.

I don't think he knew for certain until after he tempted him in the desert. If, when tempted, Jesus had sinned, then Satan would have known that Jesus was not the real Messiah.

I don't think Satan knew until after Jesus' crucifixion how much it would curb his evil power against humankind. Revelation 20:1-3

We know from Job that Satan assembles with other angels to be informed of God's intensions. At the same time as with Job he thinks less highly of God's chosen.

Jan001 · Monday at 6:53 PM

Carl Emerson said:
Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Thanks!

Jan001 · Monday at 7:04 PM

Carl Emerson said:
We know from Job that Satan assembles with other angels to be informed of God's intensions. At the same time as with Job he thinks less highly of God's chosen.

Interesting.

Jan001 · Monday at 7:36 PM

David1701 said:
Jesus clearly stated that he sometimes did make absolutely sure that certain people would not believe in him.

Mark 4:11,12 (W.E.B.)
11 He said to them, “To you is given the mystery of the Kingdom of God, but to those who are outside, all things are done in parables,
12 that ‘seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest perhaps they should turn again, and their sins should be forgiven them.’”

The prophets and Jesus used hyperbole in their teachings. It is not meant to be literal.

Hyperbole:

Romans 9:13
As it is written, “I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau.”

Exodus 9:12
But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

Luke 14:26
“Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 23:9
And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—the one in heaven.

God's true desire for all people:

1 Timothy 2:3-6
This is right and is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God;
there is also one mediator between God and humankind,
Christ Jesus, himself human,
6 who gave himself a ransom for all
—this was attested at the right time.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

Acts 10:34-35
Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

Jan001 · Monday at 7:50 PM

David1701 said:
On the other hand, the Bible is also clear that faith is a gift from God.

Every good thing we receive is a gift from God.

Romans 12:3
For by the grace given to me I say to every one who is among you that he should not think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think with sober judgment, as God has assigned to each a measure of faith.

David1701 said:
The passage in Joshua is a sarcastic call for the Israelites to choose between two sets of idols, if they are unwilling to serve the LORD. You should also note that it was under law; and faith is not even mentioned.

John 3:16
“For this is how God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

David1701 said:
1 Tim. 4:16 is not a straightforward verse; and it is certainly not about works salvation. It refers to paying heed to himself, delivering himself from the trouble that would accompany carelessness; and to continue his teaching, which would help to save the hearers from false teachings and practices, with their attendant problems.

1 Corinthians 9:25-27
Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. 26 Thus I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. 27 No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

Jan001 · Monday at 8:17 PM

David1701 said:
In the New Testament, "hope" refers to steadfast confidence for the future, not to wishful thinking.

Romans 8:22-25
We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now; 23 and not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, we also groan within ourselves as we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait with endurance.

David1701 said:
To obey Jesus is to have faith in him.

Thinking that you can believe in Jesus without being obedient to his commandments is called "believing in vain."

Do the word:

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now I am reminding you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you indeed received and in which you also stand. 2 Through it you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

To obey Jesus is to do what he tells you to do.

Luke 6:46
Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I command?

Galatians 6:2
Bear one another’s burdens, and so you will fulfill the law of Christ.

What is the eternal reward for the people who do not bear one another's burdens? Matthew 25:31-46

John 5:28-30
Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 “I cannot do anything on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me.

David1701 · Tuesday at 8:51 AM

Jan001 said:
The prophets and Jesus used hyperbole in their teachings. It is not meant to be literal.

Hyperbole:

Romans 9:13
As it is written, “I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau.”

Exodus 9:12
But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

Luke 14:26
“Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 23:9
And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—the one in heaven.

God's true desire for all people:

1 Timothy 2:3-6
This is right and is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God;
there is also one mediator between God and humankind,
Christ Jesus, himself human,
6 who gave himself a ransom for all
—this was attested at the right time.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

Acts 10:34-35
Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

Not one of the verses you have quoted as hyperbole actually is hyperbole. You have misrepresented them as such, just because they refute your erroneous ideas.

Some people might think of hatred as being only the "gritted teeth and shaking one's fist in fury" kind of thing; but, although that can be true, there are other kinds of hatred. God has a settled hatred for everything that is sinful, because it is contrary to his holy nature. He hates those who love violence (but saves some of them as well, in his loving mercy and by his unmerited favour).

He calls us to hate everything and everyone that would come between us and Himself (but this is not the "gritted teeth and face of fury" kind of hatred); and this kind of hatred can co-exist with love for those same people. We are to hate them, in the sense that we hate what they are (hostile-to-God sinners) and hate what they say and do (wicked, sinful things); but, we are also to love them, helping them to see their guilt and need (also helping practically, where we can), praying that God would have mercy upon them and get the gospel to them in Holy Spirit power.

Jan001 · Tuesday at 10:20 AM

David1701 said:
Not one of the verses you have quoted as hyperbole actually is hyperbole. You have misrepresented them as such, just because they refute your erroneous ideas.

Some people might think of hatred as being only the "gritted teeth and shaking one's fist in fury" kind of thing; but, although that can be true, there are other kinds of hatred. God has a settled hatred for everything that is sinful, because it is contrary to his holy nature. He hates those who love violence (but saves some of them as well, in his loving mercy and by his unmerited favour).

He calls us to hate everything and everyone that would come between us and Himself (but this is not the "gritted teeth and face of fury" kind of hatred); and this kind of hatred can co-exist with love for those same people. We are to hate them, in the sense that we hate what they are (hostile-to-God sinners) and hate what they say and do (wicked, sinful things); but, we are also to love them, helping them to see their guilt and need (also helping practically, where we can), praying that God would have mercy upon them and get the gospel to them in Holy Spirit power.

Since God hates "wicked, sinful things," do you think that the people who do these things and don't repent of them before they die will still inherit eternal life if they believe in the name of the son of God and trust him to save them? For example, a person dies while committing adultery or fornication and doesn't have time to repent of his sin; will he still inherit eternal life?

A New Dawn · Tuesday at 10:31 AM

Jan001 said:
Since God hates "wicked, sinful things," do you think that the people who do these things and don't repent of them before they die will still inherit eternal life if they believe in the name of the son of God and trust him to save them? For example, a person dies while committing adultery or fornication and doesn't have time to repent of his sin; will he still inherit eternal life?

What part of a person who has been regenerated and performs works because he has been reborn don’t you understand? People who have been reborn perform works for sanctification as well as because God has created them unto good works when they have been reborn? Why do you continue to suggest that being reborn leaves that person in the same fallen state they were in before??

IF someone says they have been reborn and continue on in their sinful ways, they either have never been taught that when some is reborn, they will leave the old thing behind and move towards sanctification, or they are not reborn. If guidance does not lead to a change in behavior, the latter is more likely.

Seeing someone ask the same q question over and over even though it has been answered over and over just shows you are not willing to understand, or are unable to understand a different theological positing and so constantly misrepresent it. And I know you said you don’t want to talk to me because we are talking past each other, but until you at least make an effort to understand, not just someone else’s beliefs but your own as well, I will refute the errors you speak against what you don’t understand. You are not debating, you are just arguing. You offer no substantive defense when what you say completely contradicts what the Bible says, so I am not sure you even know why you believe what you believe.

David1701 · Tuesday at 10:50 AM

Jan001 said:
Since God hates "wicked, sinful things," do you think that the people who do these things and don't repent of them before they die will still inherit eternal life if they believe in the name of the son of God and trust him to save them? For example, a person dies while committing adultery or fornication and doesn't have time to repent of his sin; will he still inherit eternal life?

If a saved person dies while committing a sin, then, yes, he will still have eternal life and enter into the fulness of it, having died. Of course, that sinful work will be burned up; but he himself will still be saved.

I think it's also important to mention that a saved person, whilst he can be tempted into committing individual acts of sin, cannot revert to a life characterised by sin, because he has been born again and has new heart/spirit (c.f. 1 John 3:9; Ez. 36:26,27).

Jan001 · Tuesday at 10:55 AM

A New Dawn said:
What part of a person who has been regenerated and performs works because he has been reborn don’t you understand? People who have been reborn perform works for sanctification as well as because God has created them unto good works when they have been reborn? Why do you continue to suggest that being reborn leaves that person in the same fallen state they were in before??

I don't think you understand that a person who has been reborn can later fall away from grace. He separates himself from God when he commits a grievous sin. Satan and his minions work very hard to provide individualized temptations for the Christian to deny Jesus with wicked, sinful works.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for [someone] to devour.

1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be led astray: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”

Titus 1:16
They claim to know God, but by their deeds they deny him. They are vile and disobedient and unqualified for any good deed.

Luke 8:11-15
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 The ones on the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 The ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe only for a while and in a time of testing fall away. 14 As for what fell among the thorns, these are the ones who hear; but as they go on their way, they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. 15 But as for that in the good soil, these are the ones who, when they hear the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patient endurance.

By committing a grievous sin, a Christian is cut off from God's saving grace.

Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Jan001 · Tuesday at 11:15 AM

David1701 said:
If a saved person dies while committing a sin, then, yes, he will still have eternal life and enter into the fulness of it, having died. Of course, that sinful work will be burned up; but he himself will still be saved.

If the builder's "work" wasn't built on the foundation of Jesus Christ but instead on Satan, the "father of lies," both he and his work will be thrown into the lake of fire.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one that has been laid; that foundation is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 the work of each builder will become visible, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each has done. 14 If what has been built on the foundation survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire.

Matthew 18:8-9
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than to have two hands or two feet and to be thrown into the eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and to be thrown into the hell of fire.

A New Dawn · Tuesday at 11:54 AM

Jan001 said:
I don't think you understand that a person who has been reborn can later fall away from grace. He separates himself from God when he commits a grievous sin. Satan and his minions work very hard to provide individualized temptations for the Christian to deny Jesus with wicked, sinful works.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for [someone] to devour.

1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be led astray: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”

Titus 1:16
They claim to know God, but by their deeds they deny him. They are vile and disobedient and unqualified for any good deed.

Luke 8:11-15
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 The ones on the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 The ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe only for a while and in a time of testing fall away. 14 As for what fell among the thorns, these are the ones who hear; but as they go on their way, they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. 15 But as for that in the good soil, these are the ones who, when they hear the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patient endurance.

By committing a grievous sin, a Christian is cut off from God's saving grace.

Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

A person who has been reborn CANNOT fall away. There are NUMEROUS scriptures that support this statement. I posted one above in a response to you. Here are a few others.

John 10:27-29 (NASB95) 27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Jesus came to do the will of the Father, and the will of the Father was that He would save ALL that the Father gave Him to be saved.
John 6:37 (NASB95) “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
John 6:39 (NASB95) “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:44 (NASB95) “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:65 (NASB95) And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

And just to put a point on what works we need to do and who is the author of those works:
John 6:29 (NASB95) Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

A New Dawn · Tuesday at 12:01 PM

Jan001 said:
I don't think you understand that a person who has been reborn can later fall away from grace. He separates himself from God when he commits a grievous sin. Satan and his minions work very hard to provide individualized temptations for the Christian to deny Jesus with wicked, sinful works.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for [someone] to devour.

1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be led astray: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”

Titus 1:16
They claim to know God, but by their deeds they deny him. They are vile and disobedient and unqualified for any good deed.

Luke 8:11-15
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 The ones on the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 The ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe only for a while and in a time of testing fall away. 14 As for what fell among the thorns, these are the ones who hear; but as they go on their way, they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. 15 But as for that in the good soil, these are the ones who, when they hear the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patient endurance.

By committing a grievous sin, a Christian is cut off from God's saving grace.

Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

To respond to your scriptures that you think suggest that those who are saved can fall away, the 1Peter scripture doesn’t say that any will fall away, but that yes, the devil will put obstacles in the way and life will be hard, but the assurances we have from other scriptures lets us know that we will abide even through the hard times.

And the other scriptures talk about those who are not born again. They may have heard the word but they have not been regenerated and so are not really Christians. Another thing I, and others, have stated repeatedly throughout the discussion. At least have the dignity to read and respond to those points instead of just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Do you even read our posts? Because the answers are right there in all of them in black and white.

Jan001 · Tuesday at 12:38 PM

A New Dawn said:
A person who has been reborn CANNOT fall away. There are NUMEROUS scriptures that support this statement. I posted one above in a response to you. Here are a few others.

A Christian can fall away from saving grace by committing grievous sins. Matthew 13:20-22

A New Dawn said:
John 10:27-29 (NASB95) 27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Before God created humans, he "put into his hand" only those he foreknew would "be faithful to him until death." Romans 8:29

What does a true follower of Jesus do? He does what Jesus tells him to do. Luke 6:46

What does Jesus command him to do? He commands him to obey his commandments. Matthew 28:20, 1 John 2:3-5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 5:3

A New Dawn said:
Jesus came to do the will of the Father, and the will of the Father was that He would save ALL that the Father gave Him to be saved.
John 6:37 (NASB95) “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
John 6:39 (NASB95) “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:44 (NASB95) “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:65 (NASB95) And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

The Father doesn't "give" any person to his son unless he's faithful at his death. He won't know if he was a true follower until Jesus judges him after his death. Hebrews 9:27

A New Dawn said:
And just to put a point on what works we need to do and who is the author of those works:
John 6:29 (NASB95) Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus is the author of salvation for the people who obey him. Hebrews 5:9

Jan001 · Tuesday at 12:41 PM

A New Dawn said:
To respond to your scriptures that you think suggest that those who are saved can fall away, the 1Peter scripture doesn’t say that any will fall away, but that yes, the devil will put obstacles in the way and life will be hard, but the assurances we have from other scriptures lets us know that we will abide even through the hard times.

And the other scriptures talk about those who are not born again. They may have heard the word but they have not been regenerated and so are not really Christians. Another thing I, and others, have stated repeatedly throughout the discussion. At least have the dignity to read and respond to those points instead of just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I disagree with your interpretations of the scriptures.

A New Dawn · Tuesday at 1:50 PM

Jan001 said:
A Christian can fall away from saving grace by committing grievous sins. Matthew 13:20-22

Before God created humans, he "put into his hand" only those he foreknew would "be faithful to him until death." Romans 8:29

What does a true follower of Jesus do? He does what Jesus tells him to do. Luke 6:46

What does Jesus command him to do? He commands him to obey his commandments. Matthew 28:20, 1 John 2:3-5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 5:3

The Father doesn't "give" any person to his son unless he's faithful at his death. He won't know if he was a true follower until Jesus judges him after his death. Hebrews 9:27

Jesus is the author of salvation for the people who obey him. Hebrews 5:9

This post is so full or errors that I cannot address them all. You have added to scripture, ignored scripture, misread scripture, and fallen to your own understanding. All I can suggest is to actually READ scripture without the blinders sod non-biblical teaching and see for yourself what it says. Because it doesn’t say half of what you are suggesting.

Imputed Righteousness. The True & The False.

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