Abortion: a Different Christian Approach

socratesgadfly said:

This Debate/Discussion will be different from other threads on abortion. Most debates on abortion within Christian circles reduce the discussion to whether it is morally right or wrong, so that one is forced to argue either that God approves or disapproves the procedure. That approach to the topic is too narrow. There are certain moral standards that are shared by all societies and reflected in their legal codes: predating by centuries the Bible the Code of Hammurabi prohibits murder and theft and perjury. So do all societies. Murder and Perjury and Theft are categorical. They require no debate. It is universally obvious to men that a person must not enter uninvited the home of another and murder that other and run off with his possessions. It is universally recognized that should a witness to these events lie in court, that witness is culpable. The moral code against murder and theft and perjury is intuited, not reasoned.

But there are other ethical codes that invite debate and are therefore not categorical: the Bible itself is diverse on its ethical take on divorce. And Christians have from the beginnings of the Church debated whether there is such a thing as lawful War.

There are then two spheres of ethics that overlap but are not coterminous: ethical codes that are universal and ethical codes that are limited to various religious societies.

The US constitution was intentionally geared toward the universally binding ethical codes. It intentionally left explicitly religious codes of ethics to that religion's practitioners.

The question for debate is, does abortion violate the universal code of ethics, or does it only violate a Christian code of ethics? If only the latter, should the US government intervene and outlaw abortion?

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Does an abortion violate the equal protection and individual rights of the unborn child? This is ultimately the question. How one approachs this question is of no concern because both sides enjoy this right. The real question is, does an unborn child also have this right. I believe it does:

No State shall "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

That being said, it does not matter what the law states, an individual seeking abortion will do so "at all cost" which is why Roe vs Wade came about.

Thanks for sharing!

socratesgadfly said:

The question for debate is, does abortion violate the universal code of ethics, or does it only violate a Christian code of ethics? If only the latter, should the US government intervene and outlaw abortion?

Click to expand...

Abortion violates universal code of ethics because GOD is the majority. Every law and ordinance you highlighted came from God. He told us not steal, kill and commit adultery.

If a child is conceive then GOD wants that child in the world because he can close or open the womb. If you decide to destroy the fruit of the womb then you are literally working against GOD and that's why Satan is promoting it so hard. Fighting against God will lead to your swift destruction and there will be no remedy.

Psalm 127: 3
3 Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Genesis 30: 1 - 2
1 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.

2 And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

Now if we want to talk government then it is clear the government does not follow the laws of GOD. They have decided to make their own laws. Since they have decided to do that they can make their own ethics and argue that it does not violate the universal code of ethics because many people don't obey GOD. However God is looking at it and he knows we love to make laws that goes against his laws.

Psalm 94: 11, 20
11 The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.

20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law?

Isaiah 5: 20
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Abortion is evil in the eyes of the creator, yes there are situations where it is necessary so I am not talking about those.

The universal code of ethics seems to come down to following the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This has been found in every culture and faith all over the world.

In the case of abortion it all stems on how the word others is interpreted. And there appears to be a lot of disagreement even among Christian denominations, as to when an embryo or fetus would be classified as "others."

Well, God's word says not to murder, and Jesus brings in how hatred is murder. So, God is concerned about what is going on in a person so the person commits murder. The act alone is not all that God is concerned with.

Like this . . . we can evaluate what process is involved to bring a person to kill her own unborn. Each person can be different, I would say.

One thing can be how the mother fears who her child will become in her life. She is, in a way, then, killing the person who her unborn could become later in her life.

And there are ones who as little girls did not grow up to cherish an unborn baby; they do not have the natural tendency to tenderly care for their unborn.

And there is a culture of holding social acceptance hostage, in order to psychologically terrorize a woman to kill her own unborn with whom she can learn real love. She can be giving in to ones who do not know how to love her, in order to keep their social acceptance.

And therefore there is a major problem, how love is not sure and secure. And because of this > a country can have such deep troubles. Because ones are not able to love an unborn person, and are not able to love a pregnant mother . . . people are deeply degraded from real love; and this affects how they can relate in marriage and if they are capable of caring the right way for a country, as political leaders >

"'He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much.'" (Luke 16:10)

So, from what Jesus says, here > I see how if I am wrong in some one way, this means my character is capable of such evil. And my character will also be able to act out in other evil ways. So, if someone is uncaring against an unborn child, that person's uncaring character can also affect how the person lives and relates in other ways. And so, if a politician has the character to be ok with abortion . . . that character will also affect other ways the politician does things with people.

And in the weakness of uncaring character we can be in deep weakness so we keep on being able to suffer in emotional trouble and torment and in relating the wrong way.

So, we need to become strong in Jesus, including in His all-loving love which has us loving the unborn while also caring for wrong leaders in prayer with hope for them > love "hopes all things," we have in 1 Corinthians 13:7.

socratesgadfly said:

This Debate/Discussion will be different from other threads on abortion. Most debates on abortion within Christian circles reduce the discussion to whether it is morally right or wrong, so that one is forced to argue either that God approves or disapproves the procedure. That approach to the topic is too narrow. There are certain moral standards that are shared by all societies and reflected in their legal codes: predating by centuries the Bible the Code of Hammurabi prohibits murder and theft and perjury. So do all societies. Murder and Perjury and Theft are categorical. They require no debate. It is universally obvious to men that a person must not enter uninvited the home of another and murder that other and run off with his possessions. It is universally recognized that should a witness to these events lie in court, that witness is culpable. The moral code against murder and theft and perjury is intuited, not reasoned.

But there are other ethical codes that invite debate and are therefore not categorical: the Bible itself is diverse on its ethical take on divorce. And Christians have from the beginnings of the Church debated whether there is such a thing as lawful War.

There are then two spheres of ethics that overlap but are not coterminous: ethical codes that are universal and ethical codes that are limited to various religious societies.

The US constitution was intentionally geared toward the universally binding ethical codes. It intentionally left explicitly religious codes of ethics to that religion's practitioners.

The question for debate is, does abortion violate the universal code of ethics, or does it only violate a Christian code of ethics? If only the latter, should the US government intervene and outlaw abortion?

Click to expand...

The question for debate is, does abortion violate the universal code of ethics, or does it only violate a Christian code of ethics? If only the latter, should the US government intervene and outlaw abortion?


Could another question be: Does the universal code of ethics overrule the code of ethics established by the Creator God?

IMHO the Code of ethics given in the Word of God from the very beginning overrules any other code, universal or not.

IMHO the government should NOT sanction and give $$$$ for the abortion of any baby!!!

jmldn2 said:

The question for debate is, does abortion violate the universal code of ethics, or does it only violate a Christian code of ethics? If only the latter, should the US government intervene and outlaw abortion?


Could another question be: Does the universal code of ethics overrule the code of ethics established by the Creator God?

IMHO the Code of ethics given in the Word of God from the very beginning overrules any other code, universal or not.

IMHO the government should NOT sanction and give $$$$ for the abortion of any baby!!!

Click to expand...

World population:
Christianity 2.4 billion
Islam 1.8 billion
Hinduism 1.2 billion
Buddhism 500 million
Judaism 16 million

There are other religions and
Nones.

India, primarily Hindu, rewarded men who had vasectomies with transistor radios in the 60's.
China and other nations had one child policies.

So when 2.4 million Christians, mostly westerners, try to play the God card on the third world and pacific rim, are you surprised that they tell you to mind your own business?

They are immune to "Catholic guilt," something i and other boomers grew up with.

Do you think that our "Christian" nation, torturing and imprisoning immigrants, financing Israeli persecution of Gaza and Lebanon, starting wars and threatening to blow Iran to smithereens, filled with hungry children lacking medical care because of billionaire tax cuts---is moral enough to tell others how to live?

I think that currently Creator God is heavy hearted because we need to repent--not tell people of other faiths how to lead their lives.