What does God promise us if we believe in Jesus?

fli · May 15, 2026

2 Corinthians 1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. NKJV

When we confessed Jesus as our Lord and savior we received His Spirit as a guarantee. That is God's guarantee that He would do as He promised. J

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV

God's promise is a guarantee of our inheritance in heaven on the day of redemption.

Romans 6:8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more.
NKJV

2 Timothy 2:11 This is a faithful saying:For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him,
He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. NKJV

If we believe in Jesus when we die, we will live with Him.

Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels. NKJV

We are told that we if we lose our life in this world for Him we save our life. I am sure there were some in Corinth and other places throughout history that there were people who did not heed Jesus' convictions to quit their behavior as they loved their worldly pleasures more that they loved Jesus. God does not lie. We are not promised eternal life if we do not accept Jesus is our Lord.

fli · May 18, 2026

I apologize for the first post. My wife and I were involved in moving from our home of 30 years to a much smaller place and I had a lot of things on my mind. In addition, I was feeling ill and out of sorts. other than that, I have no idea how I goofed up the post to being so meaningless. I will try to make this post more understandable and accurate in doctrine.

2 Corinthians 1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. NKJV

When we confessed Jesus as our Lord and savior we received His Spirit as a guarantee. That is God's guarantee that He would do as He promised.

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV

God's promise is a guarantee of our inheritance in heaven on the day of redemption. Don't we have this guarantee forever starting when we first believe? We do have this promise when we first believe, as long as we continue to believe.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. NKJV

Our sanctification is not complete until we die in Christ! When we keep His 2 commandments given in 1John 3:18-24 and die, in Him, Jesus' love is perfected in us. Eternity is a long time to live with all the saints and for our love to last that long, it has be an eternal love. The love of Jesus lasts an eternity whereas human love can fade and die.

Before I offer proof that we have the promise when we first believe in Jesus, I will explain every scripture in 1John 2:3-5.

Verse 1John 2:3 - John 10:14-16 those people who know Jesus are His sheep. They will keep his 2 commandments in 1John 3:18-24.

Verse 1John 2:4 - People who say they know him and do not keep Jesus' 2 commandments in 1John3:18-24 are not of the elect. This means only the elect will keep those 2 commandments.

Verse 1John2:5 – Matthew 10; Those who keep His word, His word of conviction under discipline, will keep His word to obey His 2 commandments therefore; Jesus' love will be perfected in them. Still in verse 1John 2:5 by this we are in Him, Romans 8:13-14, by following His word of conviction we will put to death sins of the flesh. 1John 2:6 those who abide in Jesus, by putting their sins to death, ought to walk as Jesus walked. Notice in verse 6 it states that if we abide in Jesus, we ought to walk as Jesus walked.

Now we will look at a case where those who kept Jesus' 2 commandments did not walk as Jesus walked.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

In verse 32 Paul states the Corinthians who were chastened by the Lord were chastened so they would not be condemned with the world. John 3 :18 people in the world who do not believe are condemned. Therefore, those Corinthians who went to sleep, died and went to heaven, were believers and not condemned. They died under discipline and did not quit getting drunk during the Lord's supper. This proves 2 points that I keep making. First, we ought to walk as Jesus walked, but it is not a requirement. However, if we do not walk as Jesus walked, we are taking a chance that we will lose salvation if we love our sin more than we love Jesus. The second point I keep making is, Jesus will deal with those who do not keep His second commandment by disciplining them. As proof of that statement, from the OT, read 2Samuel 12:1-15. There is every reason to believe that Bathsheba was true Israel. Uriah could also have been true Israel.

Back to the drunk Corinthians. Probably most, if not all, the Corinthians cited in chapter 11 above came in as alcoholics. Paul, in verse 32, stated if “we” are judged, Paul was not chastened in this incident, but he included himself in the possibility of being judged with the world. Since Paul included himself in the possibility of being judged with the world it means he is stating true believers can lose salvation.

fli · May 20, 2026

fli said:
I apologize for the first post. My wife and I were involved in moving from our home of 30 years to a much smaller place and I had a lot of things on my mind. In addition, I was feeling ill and out of sorts. other than that, I have no idea how I goofed up the post to being so meaningless. I will try to make this post more understandable and accurate in doctrine.

2 Corinthians 1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. NKJV

When we confessed Jesus as our Lord and savior we received His Spirit as a guarantee. That is God's guarantee that He would do as He promised.

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV

God's promise is a guarantee of our inheritance in heaven on the day of redemption. Don't we have this guarantee forever starting when we first believe? We do have this promise when we first believe, as long as we continue to believe.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. NKJV

Our sanctification is not complete until we die in Christ! When we keep His 2 commandments given in 1John 3:18-24 and die, in Him, Jesus' love is perfected in us. Eternity is a long time to live with all the saints and for our love to last that long, it has be an eternal love. The love of Jesus lasts an eternity whereas human love can fade and die.

Before I offer proof that we have the promise when we first believe in Jesus, I will explain every scripture in 1John 2:3-5.

Verse 1John 2:3 - John 10:14-16 those people who know Jesus are His sheep. They will keep his 2 commandments in 1John 3:18-24.

Verse 1John 2:4 - People who say they know him and do not keep Jesus' 2 commandments in 1John3:18-24 are not of the elect. This means only the elect will keep those 2 commandments.

Verse 1John2:5 – Matthew 10; Those who keep His word, His word of conviction under discipline, will keep His word to obey His 2 commandments therefore; Jesus' love will be perfected in them. Still in verse 1John 2:5 by this we are in Him, Romans 8:13-14, by following His word of conviction we will put to death sins of the flesh. 1John 2:6 those who abide in Jesus, by putting their sins to death, ought to walk as Jesus walked. Notice in verse 6 it states that if we abide in Jesus, we ought to walk as Jesus walked.

Now we will look at a case where those who kept Jesus' 2 commandments did not walk as Jesus walked.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

In verse 32 Paul states the Corinthians who were chastened by the Lord were chastened so they would not be condemned with the world. John 3 :18 people in the world who do not believe are condemned. Therefore, those Corinthians who went to sleep, died and went to heaven, were believers and not condemned. They died under discipline and did not quit getting drunk during the Lord's supper. This proves 2 points that I keep making. First, we ought to walk as Jesus walked, but it is not a requirement. However, if we do not walk as Jesus walked, we are taking a chance that we will lose salvation if we love our sin more than we love Jesus. The second point I keep making is, Jesus will deal with those who do not keep His second commandment by disciplining them. As proof of that statement, from the OT, read 2Samuel 12:1-15. There is every reason to believe that Bathsheba was true Israel. Uriah could also have been true Israel.

Back to the drunk Corinthians. Probably most, if not all, the Corinthians cited in chapter 11 above came in as alcoholics. Paul, in verse 32, stated if “we” are judged, Paul was not chastened in this incident, but he included himself in the possibility of being judged with the world. Since Paul included himself in the possibility of being judged with the world it means he is stating true believers can lose salvation.

To continue I am going to talk about Abraham because we know more about his walk of faith than some of the other heroes of the faith.

Genesis 15:4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir." 5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. NKJV

The first occurrence in the bible of Abraham's faith being accounted for righteousness is in Genesis 15.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. NKJV

Yet in Hebrews 11 the writer asserts Abraham had saving faith prior to that when in Genesis 12 God told Abram to move.

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe — and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. NKJV

And in James' epistle he tells people that Abraham had to offer Issac to have a faith that was not dead. If Abraham had saving faith in Genesis 15, and God does not lie, Abraham's saving faith was a result of his believing God not of any work. Our salvation is too important for us to have doubts about this.

Knowing how God works will help us solve this issue.

Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.' NKJV

The above speech by Paul in Athens helps us determine just when Abraham was saved and the reason for his salvation. God knew that Abraham had the faith to be saved prior to his salvation. God knew that Abram had saving faith prior to His request in Acts 12 when He asked Abram to move. Abram's saving faith began prior to His moving. Why didn't God tell us then that Abram had saving faith? One reason that I can think of is in Genesis 15 it is clear that Abram did not have any work(s) to confuse work with salvation.

Is James' statement of faith without works correct? Yes, it is. Once a person believes in Jesus, they must have works to keep their faith alive.

More on this later.

fli · May 26, 2026

So how do we keep our faith alive? As has been said in this post as soon as we believe in Jesus, we are heaven ready. God leaves us here on earth for 2 reasons. One is to further His kingdom. The second is to sanctify us to distinguish just who can be trusted with important duties. Now a proof of that statement.

Luke 23:39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us." 40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong." 42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." 43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." NKJV

Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise. Jesus did not go to heaven immediately as His was the first death in the NT and His death began the new covenant.

John 19:31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. 33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. NKJV

Those under the OT who were saved went to a waiting place in the earth as they could not be born again until Jesus died. Jesus Himself had to go to paradise to await the Father's approval of His obedience by making Jesus His begotten son. Even though Jesus was his only begotten son by being born of the Spirit, the Father had to beget all those OT Spirit beings in paradise plus the people who would come to believe in Jesus in the NT all of whom will become one with Jesus at the wedding. We had to be one with the dead Jesus as the dead are not subject to the law.

John 12:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. 25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor. NKJV

No one could be born again until the Lamb of God had died for their sins. Once Jesus died the OT saints and at least one NT saint, the thief on the cross, were born of the Spirit and could enter heaven to await becoming the bride of Jesus. The thief on the cross, who Jesus' had told, would go to paradise with Him, died in the NT and had met both commandments in the NT for getting into heaven.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. NKJV

Why do we need to keep believing in Jesus? When we believed in Jesus we were born of the Spirit. We were a new spiritual being without sin. That means we are virgins, without sin, spiritually. To become a bride of Jesus we must remain virgin, without sin.

How do we remain a virgin in Jesus? By never sinning once we enter Jesus.

John 12: 25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. NKJV

To stay sinless, we must obey the 2 commandments, to stay in Jesus' Spirit, and die to the world. By doing this we are keeping our faith alive.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. NKJV

His sheep will obey Jesus' word of conviction. Jesus tells every new convert they must die to the world and keep His 2 commandments. Those in Corinth chapter 11 died to the world rather than keep sinning. They like the thief were heaven ready shortly after conversion.

BelieveItOarKnot · May 27, 2026

fli said:
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. NKJV

When we confessed Jesus as our Lord and savior we received His Spirit as a guarantee. That is God's guarantee that He would do as He promised. J

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV

God's promise is a guarantee of our inheritance in heaven on the day of redemption.

Romans 6:8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more.
NKJV

2 Timothy 2:11 This is a faithful saying:For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him,
He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. NKJV

If we believe in Jesus when we die, we will live with Him.

Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels. NKJV

We are told that we if we lose our life in this world for Him we save our life. I am sure there were some in Corinth and other places throughout history that there were people who did not heed Jesus' convictions to quit their behavior as they loved their worldly pleasures more that they loved Jesus. God does not lie. We are not promised eternal life if we do not accept Jesus is our Lord.

When you present performances to save yourself, you're basically your own savior.

Beliefs and performances never made anyone sinless.

Jesus saves sinners. Not used to be sinners.

Our promises in this life are tribulations, chastisements and death at our end.

Sounds like a blast, huh?

When Jesus said to have life we have to lose our life He wasn't promoting suicide

Aussie52 · May 27, 2026

No where in the New Testament are Christian's called 'sinners'. According to Romans 6 and 1Jn 3, Christians are to be done with sin and sinning. In fact, John states that whoever is born of God does not sin and also, he that sins is of the devil. Christianity is not a' sinning religion'.

BelieveItOarKnot · May 27, 2026

Jeff Carr said:
No where in the New Testament are Christian's called 'sinners'. According to Romans 6 and 1Jn 3, Christians are to be done with sin and sinning. In fact, John states that whoever is born of God does not sin and also, he that sins is of the devil. Christianity is not a' sinning religion'.

Mark 7:21-23, Romans 3:9, Romans 7:17-25, 1 Tim 1:15 for simple examples

No one other than God in Christ was/is sinless. No, not one.

fli · May 27, 2026

Jeff Carr said:
No where in the New Testament are Christian's called 'sinners'. According to Romans 6 and 1Jn 3, Christians are to be done with sin and sinning. In fact, John states that whoever is born of God does not sin and also, he that sins is of the devil. Christianity is not a' sinning religion'.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. NKJV

John states that if we claim th.at we do not sin we are liars.

2 Corinthians 12:21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced. NKJV

Paul was stating that some of the Corinthians may not have repented of their sins.

Romans 7:25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. NKJV

Paul himself admitted that with his mind he served the law of God, but with his body he served the law of sin. We are sin free only because when we believe we are in the Spirit of Jesus and He is in us. God does not impute sin to us as He considers anyone in Jesus has died with Jesus and the law does not apply to dead people. As long as we are in the flesh, we will sin. thank you.

Aussie52 · May 27, 2026

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Mark 7:21-23, Romans 3:9, Romans 7:17-25, 1 Tim 1:15 for simple examples

No one other than God in Christ was/is sinless. No, not one.

May I ask you, what do the following verses teach?

'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Rm 6:1,2.

'What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!' Rm 6:15.

'Whoever abides in Him does not sin, whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.' 1 Jn 3:6

'He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.' 1 Jn 3: 8.

' Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.' 1 Jn 3:9.

Again, I ask, what do these verses teach?

Undoubtably, that a Christian is one who should live free from sin and sinning.

Aussie52 · May 27, 2026

fli said:
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. NKJV

John states that if we claim th.at we do not sin we are liars.

2 Corinthians 12:21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced. NKJV

Paul was stating that some of the Corinthians may not have repented of their sins.

Romans 7:25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. NKJV

Paul himself admitted that with his mind he served the law of God, but with his body he served the law of sin. We are sin free only because when we believe we are in the Spirit of Jesus and He is in us. God does not impute sin to us as He considers anyone in Jesus has died with Jesus and the law does not apply to dead people. As long as we are in the flesh, we will sin. thank you.

With all due respect, you have taken 1 Jn 1:8 out of its context and used it to mean something other than what John meant.

Just because the Corinthian Christians were guilty of sinning, does not justify us doing the same. In fact, the behavior of the Corinthians was such, that Paul quested whether they were genuine Christians.

' Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? -unless indeed you are disqualified.' 2 Cor 13:5.

You mention Paul in relation to Rn 7:7-25.

The person described in Romans 7 is not a born-again Christian. Consider the words in verse 14. 'I am carnal, sold under sin'.

This does not describe a Christian Rm 6:7. The man in Rom 7 is an unsaved Jew trying to find justification with God by means of the Law. This possibly was Paul describing his pre-conversion days.

If you consider Romans 6 and 1Jn 3, you will find in these passages the message that sin and sinning is to have no place in a believer's life.

BelieveItOarKnot · May 28, 2026

Jeff Carr said:
May I ask you, what do the following verses teach?

'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Rm 6:1,2.

'What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!' Rm 6:15.

'Whoever abides in Him does not sin, whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.' 1 Jn 3:6

'He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.' 1 Jn 3: 8.

' Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.' 1 Jn 3:9.

Again, I ask, what do these verses teach?

Undoubtably, that a Christian is one who should live free from sin and sinning.

Hey, if you are presenting yourself as sinless, just say so and be done with it.

No sense beating around the bush.

I suspect you'll waffle

Aussie52 · May 28, 2026

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Hey, if you are presenting yourself as sinless, just say so and be done with it.

No sense beating around the bush.

I suspect you'll waffle

You have dodged answering my question about the meaning of the verses I supplied.

Why?

Because your experience is at odds with Scripture?

Is it because you advocate for a 'sinning religion'?

I would really like to discuss the issue with you.

BelieveItOarKnot · May 28, 2026

Jeff Carr said:
You have dodged answering my question about the meaning of the verses I supplied.

Why?

Because your experience is at odds with Scripture?

I'm certainly not going to deny any scripture. It ALL applies to everyone. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

And you utterly failed to respond to the previous citings, Romans 3:9, Romans 7:17-25, 1 Tim. 1:15 wherein Paul termed himself and everyone else as sinners. In addition to a truck load of similar citings.

Jeff Carr said:
Is it because you advocate for a 'sinning religion'?

I would really like to discuss the issue with you.

Start by saying whether you're sinless or not. That will clear things up considerably.

It's a yes or no. Not a "when I sin I do this formula to make me sinless" spiel.

Aussie52 · May 28, 2026

BelieveItOarKnot said:
I'm certainly not going to deny any scripture. It ALL applies to everyone. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

And you utterly failed to respond to the previous citings, Romans 3:9, Romans 7:17-25, 1 Tim. 1:15 wherein Paul termed himself and everyone else as sinners. In addition to a truck load of similar citings.

Start by saying whether you're sinless or not. That will clear things up considerably.

It's a yes or no. Not a "when I sin I do this formula to make me sinless" spiel.

I replied to your Romans 7:17-25, and said it described an unsaved Jew seeking justification by the Law.

Paul's reference in Timothy if you read the context is referring to his unregenerate past.

John Wesley defined sin as a 'voluntary transgression of a known law of God'. Using that definition, by God's keeping grace, I am not conscious of known sin.

BelieveItOarKnot · May 28, 2026

Jeff Carr said:
I replied to your Romans 7:17-25, and said it described an unsaved Jew seeking justification by the Law.

That might be credible if Paul was not describing himself, which he clearly was by using the term "I"

Jeff Carr said:
Paul's reference in Timothy if you read the context is referring to his unregenerate past.

Except he used the term "I am," not I used to be.

Jeff Carr said:
John Wesley defined sin as a 'voluntary transgression of a known law of God'. Using that definition, by God's keeping grace, I am not conscious of known sin.

So when Jesus said evil thoughts come from within and defiles us, Mark 7:21-23 are you personally exempt from that fact?

And for the record sin is:

Transgression of law
Anything not of faith
Of the devil

fli · May 28, 2026

Jeff Carr said:
May I ask you, what do the following verses teach?

'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Rm 6:1,2.

That Christians should not willfully sin. I have said that Christians can and do sin, but I have not urged them to do so.

Jeff Carr said:
'What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!' Rm 6:15.

That Christians should not willfully sin.

Jeff Carr said:
'Whoever abides in Him does not sin, whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.' 1 Jn 3:6

'He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.' 1 Jn 3: 8.

' Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.' 1 Jn 3:9.

Again, I ask, what do these verses teach?

Undoubtably, that a Christian is one who should live free from sin and sinning.

You cited the 1John 3: 6,8,9. I will go through 1John 3:4-9 and explain it verse by verse.

(1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.) Every sin is a violation of the law. If you break on law you have broken all the law. Any violation of the law is lawlessness. The Father considers everyone in Jesus to be dead and dead people are not under the law and cannot break the law.

(1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.) Anyone in the Spirit of Jesus is dead to the law and cannot sin. Anyone in the Spirit of Jesus is in a sin free zone as God does not impute sin to anyone in Jesus.

(1 John 3: 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.) Whoever dies physically while in Jesus is sinless from when they first believed until they die physically in His Spirit. If anyone ever sins after being in Jesus they are not of the elect. By John 17: 20-24 those the Father gave to Jesus, the elect, have seen Him in His glory. By John 10: 13-16 His sheep, the elect, know Him. This means the elect will not sin ever after receiving Jesus. We do not sin only because God does not impute sin to dead people. Everyone in Jesus is considered dead physically by the Father and He only keeps us alive physically if we stay in the Spirit of Jesus by following His voice.

(1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.) Anyone in Jesus is practicing righteousness as far as the Father is concerned because He does not impute sin to us. We should obey the law of love.

(1John3; 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.) Read explanation on verse 6

(1John 3: 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. ) By John 3:14 We are born from above. By John we are given the right to become a child of God. By Romans 8: 23 we are not adopted until the rapture preceding the wedding. Romans8: 13-14 if we are in the Spirit and have put to death some sins of the flesh, God considers us to be a child of God,

Jeff Carr said:
With all due respect, you have taken 1 Jn 1:8 out of its context and used it to mean something other than what John meant.

The only people who can ask God to forgive their sins and be forgiven are those under the blood of Jesus. John is saying that Christians should confess their sins and ask for forgiveness.

Jeff Carr said:
Just because the Corinthian Christians were guilty of sinning, does not justify us doing the same. In fact, the behavior of the Corinthians was such, that Paul quested whether they were genuine Christians.

' Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? -unless indeed you are disqualified.' 2 Cor 13:5.

We know more about the Corinthian church than most other churches.

Acts 18:9 Now the Lord spoke to Paul in the night by a vision, "Do not be afraid, but speak, and do not keep silent; 10 for I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city." NKJV

God testifies that He had many believers in Corinth.

1 Corinthians 1:4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, 5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. NKJV

Paul testified that the Holy Spirit had confirmed them with the gifts of the Spirit and the church had all the gifts necessary to grow and be obedient.

Jeff Carr said:
You mention Paul in relation to Rn 7:7-25.

The person described in Romans 7 is not a born-again Christian. Consider the words in verse 14. 'I am carnal, sold under sin'.

This does not describe a Christian Rm 6:7. The man in Rom 7 is an unsaved Jew trying to find justification with God by means of the Law. This possibly was Paul describing his pre-conversion days.

If you consider Romans 6 and 1Jn 3, you will find in these passages the message that sin and sinning is to have no place in a believer's life.

I cited Romans 7:25 and will do it again here.

Romans 7:25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. NKJV

I have made the part where the Apostle Paul admitted that He still sinner.

fli · Sunday at 4:24 PM

Jeff Carr said:
With all due respect, you have taken 1 Jn 1:8 out of its context and used it to mean something other than what John meant.

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. NKJV

According to you I am making the scripture above say something that it does not say.

John is saying that all Christians sin and need to have their sins forgiven. John also says if we say that we say that we do not sin we are calling God a liar.

Jeff Carr said:
I replied to your Romans 7:17-25, and said it described an unsaved Jew seeking justification by the Law.

Paul's reference in Timothy if you read the context is referring to his unregenerate past.

John Wesley defined sin as a 'voluntary transgression of a known law of God'. Using that definition, by God's keeping grace, I am not conscious of known sin.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. You know with 100% accuracy everything that God calls a sin, and you know that Jesus is not convicting you of any sin. According to 1John1:8 you are calling God a liar.

Aussie52 · Sunday at 4:50 PM

fli said:
1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. NKJV

According to you I am making the scripture above say something that it does not say.

John is saying that all Christians sin and need to have their sins forgiven. John also says if we say that we say that we do not sin we are calling God a liar.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. You know with 100% accuracy everything that God calls a sin, and you know that Jesus is not convicting you of any sin. According to 1John1:8 you are calling God a liar.

I have been over this time and time again. Forgive me, but I am tired of answering the same old questions.

In regard to 1 Jn 1:8, see my thread, 'the Misuse of 1 Jn 1:8'.

BelieveItOarKnot · Monday at 5:01 AM

fli said:
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. NKJV

Paul himself admitted that with his mind he served the law of God, but with his body he served the law of sin. We are sin free only because when we believe we are in the Spirit of Jesus and He is in us. God does not impute sin to us as He considers anyone in Jesus has died with Jesus and the law does not apply to dead people. As long as we are in the flesh, we will sin. thank you.

You might sit down and take a very serious look at how your mind is turning on this subject.

We can NOT say we have no sin, period. We are never "sinless." Evil still does come from within because it's within to come from. It never goes away in this present life.

YET, knowing this, you THEN claim you are sin free via non attribution. God doesn't let any sinners off the hook and we're all sinners because evil does come from within. It's within to come from. Mark 7:21-23

Sorry to point out the obvious to you. But it's a common affliction, so there's that.

When you figure out that sin is of the devil, things may start to clear up for your positions and you may even stop trying to justify your (NOT) sinless self.

BelieveItOarKnot · Monday at 5:08 AM

Jeff Carr said:
I have been over this time and time again. Forgive me, but I am tired of answering the same old questions.

In regard to 1 Jn 1:8, see my thread, 'the Misuse of 1 Jn 1:8'.

No one has to misuse 1 John 1:8

Just read it. We can not say we have no sin. It needs to simply be read. And people who claim they are sinless are open liars, available for all to see. Even the unbelievers know that, and rightfully laugh and scorn at such claims, knowing full well that's not the case. Even THEY know that much truth.

Where I grew up they said "The pope puts his pants on just like we do."

Oh, except a lot of times they wear dresses aka silky robes with silk tasseled belts and weird little hats of various sorts.

What does God promise us if we believe in Jesus?

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