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What if Trump simply refuses to leave the White House? Or if Congress refuses to meer because of perceived election fraud?

essentialsaltes

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Fantine

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Do you really believe this to be true???? Oh my goodness. What conservative states are being subsidized by New York or California? Facts and numbers please!
It's filtered through the federal government--and now it's worse because blue states are subject to vengeance--National Guard and ICE tearing up their cities, FEMA aid refused, Medicaid funds withheld after spurious, unproven accusations of fraud.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Do you really believe this to be true???? Oh my goodness. What conservative states are being subsidized by New York or California? Facts and numbers please!
I'm a little surprised you haven't come across this before, but generally speaking, in the US, wealthier areas subsidize poorer ones. This happens at the federal level, as the previous link has shown. It also happens at the state level, with wealthy counties and municipalities subsidizing poorer ones.

On average, red states are poorer than blue ones, er go blue states tend to subsidize red ones.
 
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wing2000

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Of course, who knows if the current administration will even stay the current administration by then. There's probably at least a 1/4 chance that, given Trump's age, he either dies or suffers some kind of illness that requires him to exit the presidency.

...I would say there's a 50% chance Trump's body holds out until the end of his term. Also, s long as Trump has a pulse, his cabinet will never declare him incapable of carrying out his duties.
 
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DaisyDay

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Does this apply to sanctuary cities and states that refuse to uphold federal law? Does this apply to those anarchists who fight federal agents? Does this apply to elected officials who openly support and encourage anarchy in the streets against federal agents?
And now Noem-replacement MarkWayne is proposing that DHS refuse to process incoming tourists through customs to spite so-called sanctuary cities.

NYT: Pulling Customs From ‘Sanctuary’ City Airports Would Cause Chaos, Business Groups Say

Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin’s proposal could block hubs like Boston, New York and Los Angeles from accepting international flights.

Travel industry and business leaders are denouncing a proposal by Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin to remove customs officers from airports in liberal cities, saying it would create havoc for travelers and jeopardize the travel economy at some of the nation’s largest ports of entry.

The idea, which Mr. Mullin has floated on cable television interviews, is designed to punish so-called sanctuary cities that limit their cooperation with federal immigration authorities.

Customs officers monitor goods flowing in and out of the country and must be on hand for international flights. Removing customs from airports would mean they cannot accept incoming international flights.

Sean Duffy disagrees with this ridiculous proposal.
 
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DaisyDay

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...I would say thee's a 50% chance Trump's body holds out until the end of his term. Also, s long as Trump has a pulse, his cabinet will never declare him incapable of carrying out his duties.
You're more optimistic than I am. I think his health will give out before the midterms or shortly thereafter.
 
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I'm a little surprised you haven't come across this before, but generally speaking, in the US, wealthier areas subsidize poorer ones. This happens at the federal level, as the previous link has shown. It also happens at the state level, with wealthy counties and municipalities subsidizing poorer ones.

On average, red states are poorer than blue ones, er go blue states tend to subsidize red ones.
How is all that going to wash out when most of the wealthy tax payers leave. I think what many are missing is the wealthy did not get that way because of blue state policies or they wouldn’t be leaving in droves. It is a little misleading to say blue states are subsidizing red states. Blue state governments will be crying for subsidies from the Federal Government themselves even more the they are now when their tax base shrinks even more.
 
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comana

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How is all that going to wash out when most of the wealthy tax payers leave. I think what many are missing is the wealthy did not get that way because of blue state policies or they wouldn’t be leaving in droves. It is a little misleading to say blue states are subsidizing red states. Blue state governments will be crying for subsidies from the Federal Government themselves even more the they are now when their tax base shrinks even more.
Sure, and when the red states aren’t getting their subsidies from blue states tax payers anymore they will have to raise their own taxes.
 
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Sure, and when the red states aren’t getting their subsidies from blue states tax payers anymore they will have to raise their own taxes.
You do know that the rich people who pay federal taxes from blue states will still be paying the same federal taxes when the they move to red states. So actually what ever subsidies you are talking about will still flow to red states and blue states that ran off much of their tax base will be the ones crying for more federal money. How did this misinformation get started that blue states are subsidizing everyone? Look at the deficit in New York City and it’s only going to get worse because people and corporations are leaving.
 
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essentialsaltes

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You do know that the rich people who pay federal taxes from blue states will still be paying the same federal taxes when the they move to red states. So actually what ever subsidies you are talking about
Yes, the subsidies that actually exist, unlike your fantasy. Those are the subsidies we're talking about.

Even if somehow your fantasy came true, I'm willing to bet that the billionaires are not moving to West Virginia or Mississippi.

How did this misinformation get started that blue states are subsidizing everyone?
It's not a strict red/blue dichotomy, as Texas is also a donor state, but yes the facts that have been presented to you show that California and New York are the two biggest donor states [largely due to the fact they are both pretty populous -- I think Delaware is the biggest donor state on a per capita basis]
 
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Yes, the subsidies that actually exist, unlike your fantasy. Those are the subsidies we're talking about.

Even if somehow your fantasy came true, I'm willing to bet that the billionaires are not moving to West Virginia or Mississippi.


It's not a strict red/blue dichotomy, as Texas is also a donor state, but yes the facts that have been presented to you show that California and New York are the two biggest donor states [largely due to the fact they are both pretty populous -- I think Delaware is the biggest donor state on a per capita basis]
Out of who’s pockets do these donations originate?
 
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iluvatar5150

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How is all that going to wash out when most of the wealthy tax payers leave.

How about we find out?

Blue states have had high taxes for ages and most red states aren't doing much to catch up.


I think what many are missing is the wealthy did not get that way because of blue state policies or they wouldn’t be leaving in droves.

They're not "leaving in droves." More broadly, I don't think you have any idea what it takes to enable people to get wealthy.

They're not building these companies alone. They're doing it with skilled workforces and infrastructure. You don't get skilled workforces with austere education policies and allowing poverty to fester unabated.


It is a little misleading to say blue states are subsidizing red states.

No, it isn't.

Blue state governments will be crying for subsidies from the Federal Government themselves even more the they are now when their tax base shrinks even more.
lol, do you have any idea how far they'd have to fall in order for these stats to reverse?


Sort by per capita GDP. Look at how it's dominated by blue states.
 
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Pommer

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And now Noem-replacement MarkWayne is proposing that DHS refuse to process incoming tourists through customs to spite so-called sanctuary cities.

NYT: Pulling Customs From ‘Sanctuary’ City Airports Would Cause Chaos, Business Groups Say
Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin’s proposal could block hubs like Boston, New York and Los Angeles from accepting international flights.
Travel industry and business leaders are denouncing a proposal by Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin to remove customs officers from airports in liberal cities, saying it would create havoc for travelers and jeopardize the travel economy at some of the nation’s largest ports of entry.​
The idea, which Mr. Mullin has floated on cable television interviews, is designed to punish so-called sanctuary cities that limit their cooperation with federal immigration authorities.​
Customs officers monitor goods flowing in and out of the country and must be on hand for international flights. Removing customs from airports would mean they cannot accept incoming international flights.​

Sean Duffy disagrees with this ridiculous proposal.
Just in time for the influx of ferriners for the World Cup!
 
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They're not "leaving in droves." More broadly, I don't think you have any idea what it takes to enable people to get wealthy.
1000 people per day moving into Florida. The vast majority are not coming from Texas!
 
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iluvatar5150

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1000 people per day moving into Florida. The vast majority are not coming from Texas!
Tell me you haven't looked at the interstate migration stats without telling me you haven't looked at the interstate migration stats.

Here they are:

You're right: Texans don't make up the majority of people moving to Florida. When ranked by state (and excluding foreigners). No, Texans are the second-largest group of people moving to Florida, behind New Yorkers. In fact, NY and TX are way ahead of the rest of the states. In 2024, 50,000 New Yorkers and 45,000 Texans moved to Florida, which is roughly 30% higher than the next block of states (CA, PA, GA) which come in at 33k-36k each.

And because TX has fewer people than California, that means that the per capita percentage of residents moving to FL is much higher for TX than it is for CA. If my math is right, it's about 50% higher for TX (0.09%/yr for CA and 0.14%/yr for TX).

Then there's the issue of net migration. If you add up the numbers, it's actually more than 1,000 people/day moving to Florida. It's 585k/yr, which comes out to about 1,600/day. But at the same time, 514k people (or 1,400/day) also left Florida. That's net growth, sure, but about 1/5 the magnitude of what you were suggesting. Is that worth gloating over like this? idk...
 
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essentialsaltes

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Out of who’s pockets do these donations originate?
The millions of federal taxpayers in these 'donor' states. These are of course federal taxes we're talking about, not donations.
 
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Fantine

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The millions of federal taxpayers in these 'donor' states. These are of course federal taxes we're talking about, not donations.
And they should be distributed equitably. If Trump could get away with not giving one penny to blue states he would. He's trying to get around the requirement to fund Medicaid in blue states by claiming that there's been fraud. Meanwhile, real people have been suffering real pain and dying real deaths because of where they live and who they voted for.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Does this apply to sanctuary cities and states that refuse to uphold federal law? Does this apply to those anarchists who fight federal agents? Does this apply to elected officials who openly support and encourage anarchy in the streets against federal agents?

I like your point. 100% it should apply.
 
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