Does The "Weekly Sunday Services in NT" suggestion survive Acts 13? No?

Bob S · Sunday at 2:14 PM

HIM said:
He has given us His Spirit to cause us to walk in His way. His Law is in our hearts and minds. It is He that works in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. God is faithful. He will not suffer us to be tempted above that we are able to bear but with the temptation He gives us a way to escape, to keep us from falling. To make us perfect in every good work, working in us which is well pleasing in His sight through Christ Jesus. A glorious church. Not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing. That we should be holy without fault before Him in Love. So walk in His Spirit and we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Phil 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phil 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

What is your part? Have you stopped sinning? He is able to keep us from falling and I believe that. So, am I sin free? The answer is no.

BobRyan · Sunday at 3:24 PM

Bob S said:
What is your part? Have you stopped sinning?

do you have to be sinless before taking the command "do not take God's name in vain" seriously???

The answer is "no"

HIM · Sunday at 3:25 PM

Bob S said:
What is your part? Have you stopped sinning? He is able to keep us from falling and I believe that. So, am I sin free? The answer is no.

You said

Bob S said:
Jesus does not keep us from falling (sinning).

To which was said, “He has given us His Spirit to cause us to walk in His way. His Law is in our hearts and minds. It is He that works in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. God is faithful. He will not suffer us to be tempted above that we are able to bear but with the temptation He gives us a way to escape, to keep us from falling. To make us perfect in every good work, working in us which is well pleasing in His sight through Christ Jesus. A glorious church. Not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing. That we should be holy without fault before Him in Love. So walk in His Spirit and we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.”

But now you say, “He is able to keep us from falling and I believe that.”

But you don’t believe you can stop sinning through Jesus.
Have faith, Because to be incontinent and faithless is not good.

2Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers,incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

BobRyan · Sunday at 3:31 PM

Bob S said:
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Paul in Rom 3:31 is not telling us we are under the Law. Establishing it does not mean we are under it' 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Amen.

"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 still to be taken seriously by born again Christians because even in the NT "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:17. Where "the first commandment with a promise is still Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2

Bob S said:
Ryan wrote:

So Bob you are then telling us we are still, under the Old Covenant?

you are if you are not born again.

The rest of us can be under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 because even the New Covenant is "Old Testament" see Heb 8.
And it still "writes the LAW of God on the heart" just as it says. (no wonder you almost never quote it)

Bob S said:
Bob S said:
The fact is, there is nowhere in all of scripture that requires Gentiles to observe any day

Neither of your answers addresses my statement.

None of what you posted in that post addresses the topic (of this thread) which is Acts 13 and the total lack of a NT practice regarding weekly Sunday services.

Bob S said:
Where does it tell us that the Gentiles were observing the Sabbath or were Sabbath keepers?

read Acts 13. Those were nonChristian gentile believers in God attending weekly Sabbath services in the Synagogues..
Are you familiar with the concept of exegesis???

BobRyan · Sunday at 3:35 PM

DamianWarS said:
Acts shows the synagogue as an early launchpad to spread the gospel

Did that gospel include the death burial and resurrection of Jesus as the Christ , raised on the first day of the week?

I think we would all agree that it did
So then in Acts 13 around 45 AD they are still not informing newly reached gospel-accepting gentiles that "we meet tomorrow for more gospel preaching?'" What does that tell you?

And in Acts 18:4 they are still calling Saturday "the Sabbath' every week as they meet every Sabbath to preach the gospel to gentiles and Jews instead of editing the Sabbath to point to Sunday.

Capbook2 · Monday at 1:36 AM

HIM said:
Nice posts Capbook2. I appreciate the time you put in them.

But If we are dead but alive, yet not us that lives but Christ and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of Christ and are children of God through THE Faith in Christ, having put on Christ and are all one in Christ. Are we of Christ like the literal translation below states or do we belong to Christ as the translation you used states?
There is a difference.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God through the faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye of Christ, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I believe God's promise to Abraham was to bless those who bless Abraham. (Gen 12:3)

About Galatians 3:29, translations from ABP+ and KJV's textual basis relied heavily from the Byzantine Text Type manuscripts.
Their rendition of the texts as "you are of Christ" and "ye be Christ," notice the "are" and "be" are italicized which means as additions by the translators.
While NAS95+ and Greek NT Westcott & Hort's textual basis were from the earlier or older Alexandrian Text Type manuscripts, preferred by modern scholars.

Westcott & Horts's "The New Testament in the Original Greek" the pioneering work of textual criticism which ultimate aim is to recover the original wording of the New Testament by identifying and removing later scribal additions, alterations, and corruptions. They pioneered the genealogical method to trace manuscript families and establish textual reliability.

Google Search

Let me quote Stott;
If we are Christ’s, then...
• We find our place in eternity, because we are sons and daughters of God.
• We find our place in society, because we are brothers and sisters in the family of God.
• We find our place in history, because we are part of God’s plan of the ages, related spiritually to Abraham by our faith in Jesus.
“It enables me to answer the most basic of all human questions, ‘Who am I?’ and to say, ‘In Christ I am a son of God. In Christ I am united to all the redeemed people of God, past, present, and future. In Christ I discover my identity. In Christ I find my feet. In Christ I come home.” (Stott)“

(Apostolic Bible Polyglot+) Gal 3:29 And ifG1487 G1161 youG1473 are of Christ,G5547 thenG686 [2of theG3588 4of AbrahamG* 3seedG4690 1you are],G1510.2.5 andG2532 [2according toG2596 3promiseG1860 1heirs].G2818

(KJV+) Gal 3:29 AndG1161 ifG1487 yeG5210 be Christ's,G5547 thenG686 areG2075 ye Abraham'sG11 seed,G4690 andG2532 heirsG2818 accordingG2596 to the promise.G1860

(NAS95+) Gal 3:29 And ifG1487 R1you N1belong to ChristG5547, thenG686 you are Abraham'sG11 N2descendantsG4690, heirsG2818 accordingG2596 to R2promiseG1860.

(Greek NT Westcott & Hort+) Gal 3:29 ειG1487 COND δεG1161 CONJ υμειςG4771 P-2NP χριστουG5547 N-GSM αραG686 PRT τουG3588 T-GSM αβρααμG11 N-PRI σπερμαG4690 N-NSN εστεG1510 V-PAI-2P κατG2596 PREP επαγγελιανG1860 N-ASF κληρονομοιG2818 N-NPM

G5210 (KJV+)
ὑμείς humeis
Thayer Definition:
1) you

G4771 (Greek NT Westcott & Hort+)
σύ su
Thayer Definition:
1) you

Capbook2 · Monday at 3:09 AM

Bob S said:
All translated by men. You cannot escape the fact that it is/was man who, to the best of their ability, cannot or could not interpret every word to its origin. The version you have chosen is a translation of a translation.

There's difference between a translation based from the translators thoughts than from the original Bible words.
Westcott and Hort's "The New Testament in the Original Greek" is not a translation, it is in Greek.

Bob S said:
As closely as possible.

Yes, to the Bible's original form or wordings, rather than from the translators thoughts whom some terms used are not from the Bible.

Bob S said:
What does Col 2 have to do with where all of the commands of God were located? All of the laws came from God. If the Israelite broke one of the laws found in the book that was placed outside the ark, he was still committing a sin.

Yes, Moses book of the law which placement was beside the ark, recorded as may remain there as a witness against the people, referred in Colossians 2:14,16, the shadows.

Deu 31:26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

Bob S said:
Good point, but the fact is that without the handwritten laws, the Israelites would not have known how to punish those who didn't conform. They would not have had the two laws of love.

Good point, punishments were against us, recorded in Colossians 2:14, that would lead us to understand what verse 16 &17.
Can we quote any punishment recorded in the Ten Commandments?
As I've said, the first four of the Ten is our love to God, and the rest is our love to neighbors. (Lev 19:18, Deut 6:5)

Bob S said:
I refute your analysis. There was nothing concerning love in any of them, they were all about duty.

Bob S, Jesus said, If we love Him, we had to keep His Commandments as He also kept the Father's Commandments.

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Bob S said:
What laws? Are the laws the ones in the Book of the law or the laws God gave to Noah and or Abraham? Or are the the new commands Jesus gave to all mankind, Love others as I have loved you. 1Jn 3:19-24 tells us we belong to the truth if 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Yes, the Ten Commandments, God's Law was put in His peoples minds and written in their hearts.
As Moses glory of his face fading (2Cor3:7) it happens at Mt Sinai, where the two tablets were in Moses' hand, the face of Moses at that time was glorified.(Exo 34:35 ABP+)
It proves that the God' Law in written on God's people hearts in Hebrews 8, 2Corinthians 3, and Exodus 34 refers to the Ten Commandments.

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

Exo 34:29 It came about when Moses was coming down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the testimony were in Moses' hand as he was coming down from the mountain), that Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because of his speaking with Him.
Exo 34:30 So when Aaron and all the sons of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him.
Exo 34:31 Then Moses called to them, and Aaron and all the rulers in the congregation returned to him; and Moses spoke to them.
Exo 34:32 Afterward all the sons of Israel came near, and he commanded them to do everything that the LORD had spoken to him on Mount Sinai.
Exo 34:33 When Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face.
Exo 34:34 But whenever Moses went in before the LORD to speak with Him, he would take off the veil until he came out; and whenever he came out and spoke to the sons of Israel what he had been commanded,
Exo 34:35 the sons of Israel would see the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone. So Moses would replace the veil over his face until he went in to speak with Him.

(ABP+) Exo 34:35 AndG2532 [4sawG1492 1theG3588 2sonsG5207 3of Israel]G* theG3588 faceG4383 of Moses,G* thatG3754 it was glorified;G1392 andG2532 Moses putG4060 G* the coveringG2571 uponG1909 G3588 his faceG4383 G1473 untilG2193 wheneverG302 he enteredG1525 to converse togetherG4814 with him.G1473

Bob S said:
That is not true. I was a Sabbath observer for forty years. Most of the contributions ended up trying to convert others to Sabbath "keepers". I use parenthesis because it is a misnomer.

Are Bible study, teaching, preaching and etc not sharing Bible's truth?
Do you believe Jesus words, if we gather together in His name, He is in the midst Bob S?

Mat 18:20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

Bob S said:
And Abraham was not under the Ten Commandments.

He was, he sinned in one of the Ten, when he lied, saying Sarah as his sister but actually also his wife.
Is thou shall not bears false witness against your neighbor not the 9th of the Ten Commandments Bob S?

The word "false" bears Strong#H8267, in Hebrew "שׁקר sheqer" defined by Bible Lexicon as means - lie, deception, falsehood etc.
That proves Abraham was under the Ten Commandments.

Exo 20:16 "R1You shall not bearH6030a falseH8267 witnessH5707 against your R2neighborH7453.

H8267
שׁקר sheqer
BDB Definition:
1) lie, deception, disappointment, falsehood

Bob S said:
The SDA church and all other churches that teach tithing are deceiving their members. The tithing laws were given only to Israel and those who raised crops and or animals had to pay the ten percent. The only other persons who paid a tithe were the Levites. The tithe was not levied on the sandle maker, tent maker or anyone who didn't raise crops and or animals. New Testament Christians are admonished from scripture to give out of love and need.

Yes, tithing was given to Israel, the people of God before, and to His people that returns tithe so that there maybe food in the house of God.
As always, God communicates to His people. (Malachi 3:10)

Jesus did not say to stop the tithing to the scribes and Pharisees, what they fail was they neglected justice, mercy and faithfulness.
As Jesus said "these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."

Bob S said:
Amen! The Gospel is the Good News we are to share, not the laws of the defunct old covenant.

Yes, not the old covenant but the new covenant, the God's Law that was written in His peoples hearts.
The saints in Revelation 14:12 whom keep the Commandments of God, that was spared to suffer the second death in Rev 20:9,10,14.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.

HIM · Monday at 6:13 AM

Capbook2 said:
I believe God's promise to Abraham was to bless those who bless Abraham. (Gen 12:3)

About Galatians 3:29, translations from ABP+ and KJV's textual basis relied heavily from the Byzantine Text Type manuscripts.
Their rendition of the texts as "you are of Christ" and "ye be Christ," notice the "are" and "be" are italicized which means as additions by the translators.
While NAS95+ and Greek NT Westcott & Hort's textual basis were from the earlier or older Alexandrian Text Type manuscripts, preferred by modern scholars.

Westcott & Horts's "The New Testament in the Original Greek" the pioneering work of textual criticism which ultimate aim is to recover the original wording of the New Testament by identifying and removing later scribal additions, alterations, and corruptions. They pioneered the genealogical method to trace manuscript families and establish textual reliability.

Google Search

Let me quote Stott;
If we are Christ’s, then...
• We find our place in eternity, because we are sons and daughters of God.
• We find our place in society, because we are brothers and sisters in the family of God.
• We find our place in history, because we are part of God’s plan of the ages, related spiritually to Abraham by our faith in Jesus.
“It enables me to answer the most basic of all human questions, ‘Who am I?’ and to say, ‘In Christ I am a son of God. In Christ I am united to all the redeemed people of God, past, present, and future. In Christ I discover my identity. In Christ I find my feet. In Christ I come home.” (Stott)“

(Apostolic Bible Polyglot+) Gal 3:29 And ifG1487 G1161 youG1473 are of Christ,G5547 thenG686 [2of theG3588 4of AbrahamG* 3seedG4690 1you are],G1510.2.5 andG2532 [2according toG2596 3promiseG1860 1heirs].G2818

(KJV+) Gal 3:29 AndG1161 ifG1487 yeG5210 be Christ's,G5547 thenG686 areG2075 ye Abraham'sG11 seed,G4690 andG2532 heirsG2818 accordingG2596 to the promise.G1860

(NAS95+) Gal 3:29 And ifG1487 R1you N1belong to ChristG5547, thenG686 you are Abraham'sG11 N2descendantsG4690, heirsG2818 accordingG2596 to R2promiseG1860.

(Greek NT Westcott & Hort+) Gal 3:29 ειG1487 COND δεG1161 CONJ υμειςG4771 P-2NP χριστουG5547 N-GSM αραG686 PRT τουG3588 T-GSM αβρααμG11 N-PRI σπερμαG4690 N-NSN εστεG1510 V-PAI-2P κατG2596 PREP επαγγελιανG1860 N-ASF κληρονομοιG2818 N-NPM

G5210 (KJV+)
ὑμείς humeis
Thayer Definition:
1) you

G4771 (Greek NT Westcott & Hort+)
σύ su
Thayer Definition:
1) you

The Byzantine and Alexandrian text are the same for the clause, "but if you of Christ" in Gal3:29. The name of Christ is in the Genitive case.

Case: Genitive (G) - Koine Greek Grammar
The genitive expresses possession, source, or descriptive relationship depending on context. Watch for genitives that show possession or source; context decides whether to translate with "of", "from", or an attributive phrase.

Source or possession?

Source due to context.

Because Gal 2:20 says we are dead but alive, yet not us that lives but Christ and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of Christ and are children of God through THE Faith in Christ, having put on Christ and are all one in Christ. (Gal 3:26-29)

Are we of Christ like the literal translation below states or do we belong to Christ as the translation you used states?

Yes we are His possession, belong to Him but is that what the context is bringing out? Is it not bringing out that He is our source of Life and salvation in respect to our relationship with God and being heirs to His promises?

Possession or source? There is a difference and it matters.

Here is the clause from Westcott- Hort NA
ει if
δε but
υμεις you
χριστου of Christ

And Here is Stephanus Textus Receptus
εἰ if
' δὲ but
ὑμεῖς you
Χριστοῦ of Christ

See They are the same for the clause.

Bob S · Monday at 10:45 AM

Capbook2 said:
There's difference between a translation based from the translators thoughts than from the original Bible words.

I am not aware of any of the original words of the Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls give us some knowledge of meaning. Scholars who wrote the later versions had access to the scrolls. I just do not believe you have found a version that mimics the original manuscripts because they do not exist.

Capbook2 said:
Westcott and Hort's "The New Testament in the Original Greek" is not a translation, it is in Greek.

So what.

Capbook2 said:
Yes, to the Bible's original form or wordings, rather than from the translators thoughts whom some terms used are not from the Bible.

Because what we have today was translated from the original; what we have even from the first translation could have had terms not found in the original. Even with all the errors in all of the translations, we have the plan of salvation coming through loud and clear.

Capbook2 said:
Yes, Moses book of the law which placement was beside the ark, recorded as may remain there as a witness against the people, referred in Colossians 2:14,16, the shadows.

Just remember the Book of the Law also contained the Ten Commandments. The Ten commandments were a witness against the Israelites.

Capbook2 said:
Deu 31:26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

Good point, punishments were against us, recorded in Colossians 2:14, that would lead us to understand what verse 16 &17.
Can we quote any punishment recorded in the Ten Commandments?
As I've said, the first four of the Ten is our love to God, and the rest is our love to neighbors. (Lev 19:18, Deut 6:5)

What the Ten represent to you is not what I was referring to. My contention and proof is that there is nothing in the Ten Commandments about love. Do you understand? The Love commands come from other scripture. The Ten Commandments do not cover many of the sins man is guilty of committing. here are some Paul lists in Gal 5:19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

It is no wonder the Ten Commandments were only temporary, as Paul wrote in 2Cor3:11. Our guide is the Holy Spirit. He guides us in every aspect of holiness, not just nine commands.

Capbook2 said:
Bob S, Jesus said, If we love Him, we had to keep His Commandments as He also kept the Father's Commandments.

Sorry friend, there is no "also" in Jesus words. He didn't ask the disciples to keep the commands He kept, He asked them to keep His commands.
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Capbook2 said:
John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

Capbook2 said:
Yes, the Ten Commandments, God's Law was put in His peoples minds and written in their hearts.

His people were the Israelites, and it is a misnomer to write that the ten were written in their hearts

Capbook2 said:
As Moses glory of his face fading (2Cor3:7) it happens at Mt Sinai, where the two tablets were in Moses' hand, the face of Moses at that time was glorified.(Exo 34:35 ABP+)
It proves that the God' Law in written on God's people hearts in Hebrews 8, 2Corinthians 3, and Exodus 34 refers to the Ten Commandments.

Actually, 2Cor proves that the Ten Commandments were only Temporary. They stopped being the guide to the Israelites when Jesus introduced the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. 2 cor3:11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Capbook2 said:
Are Bible study, teaching, preaching and etc not sharing Bible's truth?

Capbook2 said:
Do you believe Jesus words, if we gather together in His name, He is in the midst Bob S?

That would depend Cap. How would you describe those of different persuasions than yours, like those who gather on Sunday and deny the Sabbath?

Capbook2 said:
Mat 18:20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

He was, he sinned in one of the Ten, when he lied, saying Sarah as his sister but actually also his wife.
Is thou shall not bears false witness against your neighbor not the 9th of the Ten Commandments Bob S?

Knowing right from wrong does not mean that God had given Abraham ten commands. It seems to me that you have taken the liberty to add to what scripture is saying. Abraham also had concubines that produced children and had a child by Hagar. How did the population increase from
Adam and Eve? It seems to me that their children must have married each other. Was all that sinning? By the way, while I am at it, why didn't the Ten Commandments mention incest? We all know it is a grievous sin.

Capbook2 said:
The word "false" bears Strong#H8267, in Hebrew "שׁקר sheqer" defined by Bible Lexicon as means - lie, deception, falsehood etc.
That proves Abraham was under the Ten Commandments.

It does no such thing Cap. Please stop with that stuff. Others read these posts and might just believe something that is not true.

Capbook2 said:
Exo 20:16 "R1You shall not bearH6030a falseH8267 witnessH5707 against your R2neighborH7453.

H8267
שׁקר sheqer
BDB Definition:
1) lie, deception, disappointment, falsehood

Yes, tithing was given to Israel, the people of God before, and to His people that returns tithe so that there maybe food in the house of God.
As always, God communicates to His people. (Malachi 3:10)

Jesus did not say to stop the tithing to the scribes and Pharisees, what they fail was they neglected justice, mercy and faithfulness.
As Jesus said "these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."

Why would Jesus stop tithing? They were under the old covenant, which demanded tithing. The Pharisees were raising crops, so they were obligated to tithe ten percent of them to the Levites. We are living in New Covenant times where we give out of our hearts, not because a law demands us to give, but because we love our Savior.

Capbook2 said:
Yes, not the old covenant but the new covenant, the God's Law that was written in His peoples hearts.
The saints in Revelation 14:12 whom keep the Commandments of God, that was spared to suffer the second death in Rev 20:9,10,14.

Once again, what are the commandments of God? Were not the commandments of God those in the Book of the Law? Where in scripture are you able to distinguish and sort out the commands that you deem to be the ones you think would make us saints?

Capbook2 said:
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.

Where do you get the information that it is the Ten Commandments that are written in our hearts? What about all of the remainder of sinful things we can do that are not written where we need them? I only know of one thing that is written in our hearts, and that is Love. If we love others as Jesus teaches, we will do no harm to anyone. That means we will not steal from them, we will not engage in immoral acts with them, we will not commit incest with them, and all the other things listed in Gal 5:19.

DamianWarS · Monday at 11:22 PM

BobRyan said:
Did that gospel include the death burial and resurrection of Jesus as the Christ , raised on the first day of the week?

I think we would all agree that it did
So then in Acts 13 around 45 AD they are still not informing newly reached gospel-accepting gentiles that "we meet tomorrow for more gospel preaching?'" What does that tell you?

And in Acts 18:4 they are still calling Saturday "the Sabbath' every week as they meet every Sabbath to preach the gospel to gentiles and Jews instead of editing the Sabbath to point to Sunday.

It tells me it was driven by tradition and opportunity, not requirement. You seem to be under the impression I'm mandating Sunday or saying it replaces the Sabbath. I'm not, neither is Paul. Paul takes the opportunity of a gathering event and uses it to preach the gospel. Why would he waste such an event?

Acts 18 shows a unique shift in v6-7 where Paul moves out of the synagogue. Acts 19 shows the same shift, no longer a welcoming platform of Acts 13, but now a place that rejects the gospel, so Paul moves on to different places v19:9 "...[Paul] withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus". The synagogue platform increasingly became more hostile and no longer a sustainable place. Acts 20 then shows the 1st day gathering. Luke stacks these events on purpose, as is his style, with the intent to show the shift.

Capbook2 · Tuesday at 12:39 AM

HIM said:
The Byzantine and Alexandrian text are the same for the clause, "but if you of Christ" in Gal3:29. The name of Christ is in the Genitive case.

Case: Genitive (G) - Koine Greek Grammar
The genitive expresses possession, source, or descriptive relationship depending on context. Watch for genitives that show possession or source; context decides whether to translate with "of", "from", or an attributive phrase.

Source or possession?

This is what I find, the phrase "belong to Christ" uses the Greek possessive genitive, it do translate literally to "if you are of Christ."

In Galatians 3:29, the phrase "belong to Christ" uses the Greek possessive genitive. Grammatically, it translates literally to "if you are of Christ". While this implies ownership or belonging, it functions to show your identity and spiritual. Google Search

Galatians 3:29 Lexicon: And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

HIM said:
Source due to context.

Because Gal 2:20 says we are dead but alive, yet not us that lives but Christ and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of Christ and are children of God through THE Faith in Christ, having put on Christ and are all one in Christ. (Gal 3:26-29)

Are we of Christ like the literal translation below states or do we belong to Christ as the translation you used states?

Yes we are His possession, belong to Him but is that what the context is bringing out? Is it not bringing out that He is our source of Life and salvation in respect to our relationship with God and being heirs to His promises?

Possession or source? There is a difference and it matters.

Here is the clause from Westcott- Hort NA
ει if
δε but
υμεις you
χριστου of Christ

And Here is Stephanus Textus Receptus
εἰ if
' δὲ but
ὑμεῖς you
Χριστοῦ of Christ

See They are the same for the clause.

Yes, both have the same rendition of the text, but as you state about "genitive vs attributive phrase," I find the comparison is about "genitive vs possessive genitive," which is described below.

The genitive case is the broader grammatical category showing how a noun relates to another noun (often translated with "of" or " 's "). The possessive genitive is a specific subset of the genitive case that specifically indicates direct ownership or belonging.

Google Search

(Greek NT Westcott & Hort+) Gal 3:29 ειG1487 COND δεG1161 CONJ υμειςG4771 P-2NP χριστουG5547 N-GSM αραG686 PRT τουG3588 T-GSM αβρααμG11 N-PRI σπερμαG4690 N-NSN εστεG1510 V-PAI-2P κατG2596 PREP επαγγελιανG1860 N-ASF κληρονομοιG2818 N-NPM

(Greek NT Byzantine+) Gal 3:29 ειG1487 COND δεG1161 CONJ υμειςG4771 P-2NP χριστουG5547 N-GSM αραG686 PRT τουG3588 T-GSM αβρααμG11 N-PRI σπερμαG4690 N-NSN εστεG1510 V-PAI-2P καιG2532 CONJ κατG2596 PREP επαγγελιανG1860 N-ASF κληρονομοιG2818 N-NPM

Capbook2 · Tuesday at 2:24 AM

Bob S said:
I am not aware of any of the original words of the Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls give us some knowledge of meaning. Scholars who wrote the later versions had access to the scrolls. I just do not believe you have found a version that mimics the original manuscripts because they do not exist.

So what.

Because what we have today was translated from the original; what we have even from the first translation could have had terms not found in the original. Even with all the errors in all of the translations, we have the plan of salvation coming through loud and clear.

I prefer to quote the Hebrew Scriptures the "Tanakh" for the Old Testament and "The New Testament in the Original Greek" by Westcott and Hort.
We can verify online every Bible translations is it is a "literal word for word, paraphrase, thought for thought, dynamic and etc," if we compare the them we'll find some variations. Mostly literal word for word Bible translations bears Strong Numbers or Concordance to every Bible words, that helps us know what that word means at the time of its usage through Bible Lexicons from credentialed Bible Lexicographers.

Bob S said:
Just remember the Book of the Law also contained the Ten Commandments. The Ten commandments were a witness against the Israelites.

May we know what verse said so?
As to my knowledge the Ten Commandments never contain punishments against the people.
Can you quote one if you have any?

Bob S said:
What the Ten represent to you is not what I was referring to. My contention and proof is that there is nothing in the Ten Commandments about love. Do you understand? The Love commands come from other scripture. The Ten Commandments do not cover many of the sins man is guilty of committing. here are some Paul lists in Gal 5:19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Bob S, is keeping God's commandments isn't showing your love to God? Yes or no?
Jesus said, "if you love me keep my Commandments."

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Bob S said:
It is no wonder the Ten Commandments were only temporary, as Paul wrote in 2Cor3:11. Our guide is the Holy Spirit. He guides us in every aspect of holiness, not just nine commands.

Bob S, the context is about the ministry of the Spirit, before God's Laws were written in stones, now written in our hearts by the ministry of the Spirit which is more in glory. Only the placement of the Ten Commandments or God's Laws was changed,(Heb 8:8-13) it remains in our hearts now by the ministry of the Spirit. (2Cor 3:-11)

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
2Co 3:11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

Bob S said:
Sorry friend, there is no "also" in Jesus words. He didn't ask the disciples to keep the commands He kept, He asked them to keep His commands.
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Bob S, as to your understanding, is Jesus' Commandments different from the Father's commandments?

John 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Bob S said:
John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

Do that command not from the Father based of what Jesus said in John 12:49 Bob S?

John 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Bob S said:
His people were the Israelites, and it is a misnomer to write that the ten were written in their hearts

God always communicate to His people, if we consider ourselves not His people, then God's Laws is not in our hearts. (Heb 4:9)

Bob S said:
Actually, 2Cor proves that the Ten Commandments were only Temporary. They stopped being the guide to the Israelites when Jesus introduced the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. 2 cor3:11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Already answered through context of 2Corinthians 3:3-11.

Bob S said:
That would depend Cap. How would you describe those of different persuasions than yours, like those who gather on Sunday and deny the Sabbath?

I do not know, as we all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, but I would rather try to follow Christ as a professed Christian.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad

Bob S said:
Knowing right from wrong does not mean that God had given Abraham ten commands. It seems to me that you have taken the liberty to add to what scripture is saying. Abraham also had concubines that produced children and had a child by Hagar. How did the population increase from
Adam and Eve? It seems to me that their children must have married each other. Was all that sinning? By the way, while I am at it, why didn't the Ten Commandments mention incest? We all know it is a grievous sin.

It does no such thing Cap. Please stop with that stuff. Others read these posts and might just believe something that is not true.

Yes, others might see our responses but I always quote Bible verses Bob S.
Do this mean Abraham didn't lie? (Gen 20:9)
Do Cain not sinned when he kill Abel? (Gen 4:7)
As sin is the transgression of the Law, that means whenever sin happened a Law was violated. (1John 3:4)

Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham and said to him, "What have you done to us? And how have I sinned against you, that you have brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? You have done to me things that ought not to be done."

Gen 4:7 "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Bob S said:
Why would Jesus stop tithing? They were under the old covenant, which demanded tithing. The Pharisees were raising crops, so they were obligated to tithe ten percent of them to the Levites. We are living in New Covenant times where we give out of our hearts, not because a law demands us to give, but because we love our Savior.

May we know your definition of covenant Bob S?

And which Bible text that state the new covenant/agreement that tithing be stopped and when?

Bob S said:
Once again, what are the commandments of God? Were not the commandments of God those in the Book of the Law? Where in scripture are you able to distinguish and sort out the commands that you deem to be the ones you think would make us saints?

If you refer it to the Book of the Law by Moses, I believe the "Torah" as many summed it up to 613 laws, that also includes the Ten Commandments.
But keep in mind, the book was placed beside the ark of the covenant, while the Ten in two tablets of stone was placed inside the ark of the covenant.
I believe this distinction highlights the permanence and supreme importance of the Ten Commandments. The stone tablets were placed inside the Ark. In contrast, the much larger "Book of the Law" (the Mosaic Law), which governed day-to-day rituals and civil ordinances, was placed on the outside, resting on a pocket or rib on the side of the Ark to serve as a witness against the people.

Bob S said:
Where do you get the information that it is the Ten Commandments that are written in our hearts? What about all of the remainder of sinful things we can do that are not written where we need them? I only know of one thing that is written in our hearts, and that is Love. If we love others as Jesus teaches, we will do no harm to anyone. That means we will not steal from them, we will not engage in immoral acts with them, we will not commit incest with them, and all the other things listed in Gal 5:19.

If we read again Hebrews 8:8-13, we'll know that God put His Laws to His people's mind and written in their hearts.
Also stated in 2Cor 3;3, how to know what Law was written in people's hearts?
Read the next verse, 2Cor 3:7, on Moses time the only Law engraven in stones was the Ten Commandments.
Yes, If I am right, you mentioned two results of love, do not steal and do not commit adultery as an immoral act.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Bob S · Tuesday at 12:52 PM

Capbook2 said:
I prefer to quote the Hebrew Scriptures the "Tanakh" for the Old Testament and "The New Testament in the Original Greek" by Westcott and Hort.

Very well, I don't.

Capbook2 said:
We can verify online every Bible translations is it is a "literal word for word, paraphrase, thought for thought, dynamic and etc," if we compare the them we'll find some variations. Mostly literal word for word Bible translations bears Strong Numbers or Concordance to every Bible words, that helps us know what that word means at the time of its usage through Bible Lexicons from credentialed Bible Lexicographers.

Many times, Strong's gives us several meanings, as do the dictionaries. We choose the words that best fit our preconceived beliefs.

Capbook2 said:
May we know what verse said so?
As to my knowledge the Ten Commandments never contain punishments against the people.
Can you quote one if you have any?

All I know is that Paul called the Ten Commandments the ministry of death. Why are you ignoring 2Cor 3:11, where Paul tells us that the Ten Commandments were temporary? Please answer. The verses are not telling us that the Ten are now written in our hearts. You keep beating around the bush like every one that believes we are still under some of the ritual laws of the Old Covenant.

Capbook2 said:
Bob S, is keeping God's commandments isn't showing your love to God? Yes or no?

Yes, but that is not the point I made. There is nothing about love in any of the Ten.

Capbook2 said:
Jesus said, "if you love me keep my Commandments."

So, would you please tell me the commandments that are contained in "My commandments"? God gave Israel 613 commands. Jesus is God. How were you able to decipher which ones are written in our hearts and which ones you can cull?

Capbook2 said:
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Bob S, the context is about the ministry of the Spirit, before God's Laws were written in stones, now written in our hearts by the ministry of the Spirit which is more in glory. Only the placement of the Ten Commandments or God's Laws was changed,(Heb 8:8-13) it remains in our hearts now by the ministry of the Spirit. (2Cor 3:-11)

Sorry friend, you use texts that do not back up your statements.

Capbook2 said:
2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
2Co 3:11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

If, as verse 11 is telling us, the Ten Commandments have faded away, how is it they could be written in our hearts?

Capbook2 said:
Bob S, as to your understanding, is Jesus' Commandments different from the Father's commandments?

Jesus' own words :
John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

Capbook2 said:
John 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

As it should be because the Father, son and Holy Spirit are of one accord. So, a new command God gave us through the Son.

Capbook2 said:
Do that command not from the Father based of what Jesus said in John 12:49 Bob S?

John 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

God always communicate to His people, if we consider ourselves not His people, then God's Laws is not in our hearts. (Heb 4:9)

Already answered through context of 2Corinthians 3:3-11.

I do not know, as we all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, but I would rather try to follow Christ as a professed Christian.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad

Do you believe Jesus' words in Jn 5:24: 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. So, either you are wrong or Jesus was. What say you? We might "appear", but we will not come under judgment.

Capbook2 said:
Yes, others might see our responses but I always quote Bible verses Bob S.

Yes, you do, even if the verses have no bearing on the subject.

Capbook2 said:
Do this mean Abraham didn't lie? (Gen 20:9)

Capbook2 said:
Do Cain not sinned when he kill Abel? (Gen 4:7)
As sin is the transgression of the Law, that means whenever sin happened a Law was violated. (1John 3:4)

Look Cap, I have never written that the antediluvians or those who lived before God gave the tablets to Moses didn't have laws. God created man with the ability to reason. Just because they didn't have two stones to remind them what some sins are doesn't mean they didn't know right from wrong.

Capbook2 said:
May we know your definition of covenant Bob S?

I guess you must have skipped over the definition I gave you in another post. All I can do is present the truthand pray that you will take it to heart, the decision is yours.

Capbook2 said:
And which Bible text that state the new covenant/agreement that tithing be stopped and when?

First of all, if you were an Israelite living under the dictates of the Old Covenant, unless you raised crops or animals you would not have been one that God commanded to pay tithe. Do you understand that? Secondly, tithe was never paid in money. The crops and animals were taken to the storehouse of the Levites.

I call the tithing laws that churches levy on members today the modified false tithing system. It does not resemble the system
God gave Israel. It is levied on all members, not just farmers, and it is collected in money. New Covenant Christians are asked to give out of the goodness of our hearts. We are not under the laws of the Old Covenant. Do you understand?

Capbook2 said:
If you refer it to the Book of the Law by Moses, I believe the "Torah" as many summed it up to 613 laws, that also includes the Ten Commandments.
But keep in mind, the book was placed beside the ark of the covenant, while the Ten in two tablets of stone was placed inside the ark of the covenant.
I believe this distinction highlights the permanence and supreme importance of the Ten Commandments. The stone tablets were placed inside the Ark. In contrast, the much larger "Book of the Law" (the Mosaic Law), which governed day-to-day rituals and civil ordinances, was placed on the outside, resting on a pocket or rib on the side of the Ark to serve as a witness against the people.

Yes, it did Cap. The problem is that you have not concluded that we are not under the laws that were in the Ark or the ones that rested beside the ones in the Ark. We are under the laws of the New and better Covenant.

Capbook2 said:
If we read again Hebrews 8:8-13, we'll know that God put His Laws to His people's mind and written in their hearts.
Also stated in 2Cor 3;3, how to know what Law was written in people's hearts?
Read the next verse, 2Cor 3:7, on Moses time the only Law engraven in stones was the Ten Commandments.
Yes, If I am right, you mentioned two results of love, do not steal and do not commit adultery as an immoral act.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

HIM · Tuesday at 2:13 PM

Bob S said:
Many times, Strong's gives us several meanings, as do the dictionaries. We choose the word

No, Strong’s concordance gives basically one meaning and then after the semi colon it gives how it was translated in the KJV.

HIM · Tuesday at 2:21 PM

Bob S said:
Look Cap, I have never written that the antediluvians or those who lived before God gave the tablets to Moses didn't have laws. God created man with the ability to reason. Just because they didn't have two stones to remind them what some sins are doesn't mean they didn't know

No, they lived by God’s direction. That which may be known of God was manifested in them through His Spirit. For the invisible things from the creation of the world are clearly seen and they were without excuse.

But as He said unto Noah, His spirit shall not always strive with man because his heart is continually evil.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Capbook2 · 2026-06-03T04:53:40-0500

Bob S said:
Very well, I don't.

Do this mean you don't prefer to read Bible translations based from Bible's original wordings?

Bob S said:
Many times, Strong's gives us several meanings, as do the dictionaries. We choose the words that best fit our preconceived beliefs.

Strong assigned Numbers to original Bible words, many credentialed Bible Lexicographers defines them to help us understand what it means at the time it was used, than to make our own definition influenced by our pre-conceived beliefs.

Bob S said:
All I know is that Paul called the Ten Commandments the ministry of death. Why are you ignoring 2Cor 3:11, where Paul tells us that the Ten Commandments were temporary? Please answer. The verses are not telling us that the Ten are now written in our hearts. You keep beating around the bush like every one that believes we are still under some of the ritual laws of the Old Covenant.

Through context, the Ten Commandments placement was from two tablets of stones which was brought to an end with glory (2Cor3:11)
But it was now written in our hearts (2Cor 3:3) with the Spirit of the living God, which more glorious through the ministry of the Spirit.
If we follow the guidance of the Spirit in our hearts and not opting to our own will, we will be free from sin and became slaves to righteousness. (Rom 6:18)

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

(ESV) 2Co 3:11 For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Bob S said:
Yes, but that is not the point I made. There is nothing about love in any of the Ten.

Bob S, was your worship to God not born out of love?

Bob S said:
So, would you please tell me the commandments that are contained in "My commandments"? God gave Israel 613 commands. Jesus is God. How were you able to decipher which ones are written in our hearts and which ones you can cull?

Just read 2Cor 3:3 and verse 7.
What Law that was engraved in stones that was given to Moses Bob S?

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

Bob S said:
Sorry friend, you use texts that do not back up your statements.

If, as verse 11 is telling us, the Ten Commandments have faded away, how is it they could be written in our hearts?

Had already addressed the text, just find it above.

Bob S said:
Jesus' own words :
John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

As it should be because the Father, son and Holy Spirit are of one accord. So, a new command God gave us through the Son.

Do you believe Jesus' words in Jn 5:24: 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. So, either you are wrong or Jesus was. What say you? We might "appear", but we will not come under judgment.

Yes, you do, even if the verses have no bearing on the subject.

Yes, by God's grace we are saved through our faith (believe) but that faith must be shown by our works. (Eph 2:8-10)
Bob S, tell me how would you show your faith/believe?

Bob S said:
Look Cap, I have never written that the antediluvians or those who lived before God gave the tablets to Moses didn't have laws. God created man with the ability to reason. Just because they didn't have two stones to remind them what some sins are doesn't mean they didn't know right from wrong.

How did Cain sinned BOB S?
Sin cannot be sin when there is no Law being violated Bob S.
The "thou shall not kill" was Cain's violation.
May we know why "sin" was mentioned in Gen 4:7?

Gen 4:7 "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Bob S said:
I guess you must have skipped over the definition I gave you in another post. All I can do is present the truthand pray that you will take it to heart, the decision is yours.

First of all, if you were an Israelite living under the dictates of the Old Covenant, unless you raised crops or animals you would not have been one that God commanded to pay tithe. Do you understand that? Secondly, tithe was never paid in money. The crops and animals were taken to the storehouse of the Levites.

I call the tithing laws that churches levy on members today the modified false tithing system. It does not resemble the system
God gave Israel. It is levied on all members, not just farmers, and it is collected in money. New Covenant Christians are asked to give out of the goodness of our hearts. We are not under the laws of the Old Covenant. Do you understand?

Yes, it did Cap. The problem is that you have not concluded that we are not under the laws that were in the Ark or the ones that rested beside the ones in the Ark. We are under the laws of the New and better Covenant.

I believe the tithe is the 10% of our produce.

The word "produce" bears Strong#H8393, in Hebrew "תּבוּאה tebû'âh" defined by Bible Lexicon as means - income, revenue, gain etc.

I understand income is any money or financial benefit received in exchange for labor, services, the sale of goods, or as a return on investments.

Google Search

Deu 14:22 "You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.
Deu 14:22 "You R1shall surelyH6237 titheH6237 allH3605 the produceH8393 from N1whatH2233 you sowH2233, which comesH3318 out of the fieldH7704 everyH8141 yearH8141.

H8393
תּבוּאה tebû'âh
BDB Definition:
1) produce, product, revenue
1a) product, yield, crops (of the earth usually)
1b) income, revenue
1c) gain (of wisdom) (figuratively)
1d) product of lips (figuratively)

Bob S said:

HIM · 2026-06-03T08:46:09-0500

Bob S said:
All I know is that Paul called the Ten Commandments the ministry of death. Why are you ignoring 2Cor 3:11, where Paul tells us that the Ten Commandments were temporary? Please answer. The verses are not telling us that the Ten are now written in our hearts. You keep beating around the bush like every one that believes we are still under some of the ritual laws of the Old Covenant.

You are right about it not saying the Ten Commandments are written in our hearts. Nowhere does it say that there in 2 Cor 3.

With that said no one should say it does using just that text.

However it does say in Hebrews 8:10 that the Law is to be in our hearts and minds. And it does say in Rom 10:8 that the Word IS in our hearts and mouths which shows that Heb 8:10 is fulfilled.
God was very purposeful in Having Paul paraphrase Deut 30:10-14 in Rom 10:6-8. He did because He knew that those who received the letter would go to Deut 30 and they would see what exactly is meant by the word being in our heart.
We are to hearken, hear and obey the voice of the Lord in order to keep His commandments and Statutes contained in the Book of the Law. The Judgements are not mentioned because they are not needed because we are to be keeping the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. And this commandment to listen to the voice of the Lord to keep His Commandments and Statutes contained in the Book of The Law is not far from us, that we have to call it down from heaven or up from the deep. For His Word is in our hearts and in our mouths that we do it. That is the Word of faith in which we are to preach. For with the heart man believeth INTO righteousness not through letters engraved in stone. As God had said in Ezk 36:26 He will give us a new Spirit and cause to walk in His Ways.

Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

No, the ministry and it's glory was temporary not what is righteousness, the Law, God's Commandments and Statutes, His Word.
Because ink on parchment and letters on stone only brought death and condemnation. Being told and shown what righteousness is does not make one righteous. It does not change the heart. Only God's Spirit can do that.

Incidentally it does not say the ten commandments were temporary anywhere in 2Cor 3. It says the ministry is being annulled, nullified, done away with. KEEP IN MINE IT IS IN THE PRESENT TENSE. THAT MEANS IT IS BEING DONE AWAY WITH NOT THAT IT HAS.

WHY IS THAT?

CLV 2C 3:7 (Now if the dispensation of *death, by letters ochiseled~ in =stone, becamecame in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able~ to look intently into the face of Moses, because of the glory of his *face, *which was being nullified~,

AUV 2Cor 3:11 For if that which is being annulled is (through) glory, much rather that which is remaining is (in) glory.«

CLV 2C 3:11 For if *that which is being nullified~ was nullified through glory, much rather *that which is remaining, remains in glory.

Capbook2 said:
Through context, the Ten Commandments placement was from two tablets of stones which was brought to an end with glory (2Cor3:11)
But it was now written in our hearts (2Cor 3:3) with the Spirit of the living God, which more glorious through the ministry of the Spirit.
If we follow the guidance of the Spirit in our hearts and not opting to our own will, we will be free from sin and became slaves to righteousness. (Rom 6:18)

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

(ESV) 2Co 3:11 For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

No where does it say in 2 Cor 3 that the Ten Commandments are being placed in the heart. By saying that you are making a whole in your theology because it does not say it there. You are imposing the idea.

However it does say in Hebrews 8:10 that the Law is to be in our hearts and minds. And it does say in Rom 10:8 that the Word IS in our hearts and mouths which shows that Heb 8:10 is fulfilled.
God was very purposeful in Having Paul paraphrase Deut 30:10-14 in Rom 10:6-8. He did because He knew that those who received the letter would go to Deut 30 and they would see what exactly is meant by the word being in our heart.
We are to hearken, hear and obey the voice of the Lord in order to keep His commandments and Statutes contained in the Book of the Law. The Judgements are not mentioned because they are not needed because we are to be keeping the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. And this commandment to listen to the voice of the Lord to keep His Commandments and Statutes contained in the Book of The Law is not far from us, that we have to call it down from heaven or up from the deep. For His Word is in our hearts and in our mouths that we do it. That is the Word of faith in which we are to preach. For with the heart man believeth INTO righteousness not through letters engraved in stone. As God had said in Ezk 36:26 He will give us a new Spirit and cause to walk in His Ways.

Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Capbook2 said:
Just read 2Cor 3:3 and verse 7.
What Law that was engraved in stones that was given to Moses Bob S?

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

NO MENTION OF THE SPIRIT WRITING THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ON OUR HEARTS. WE ARE LETTERS OF CHRIST WRITTEN BY THE SPIRIT ON THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART. THE MINISTRY OF THE SPIRIT WHICH IS CALLED THE MINISTRY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. NOT THAT WE ARE SUFFIENT IN AND OF OURSELVES, BUT OUR SUFFIENCY IS OF GOD. WHO HAS MADE US ABLED MINISTERS OF THE SPIRIT NOT OF THE LETTER. FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT, THE MINISTRY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS GIVETH LIFE. FOR WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS FREEDOM. IN THAT WE ARE REFLECTING THE GLORY OF THE LORD WE ARE CHANGED INTO THE SAME IMAGE FROM THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD.

HIM · 2026-06-03T08:55:45-0500

Bob S said:
Jesus' own words :
John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

Capbook2 said:
Yes, by God's grace we are saved through our faith (believe) but that faith must be shown by our works. (Eph 2:8-10)
Bob S, tell me how would you show your faith/believe?

We are created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works that God preordained that we should walk in.

With that noted where is it preordained?

The Book of the Law?

YES!

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

SabbathBlessings · 2026-06-03T09:01:15-0500

This is easy to resolve by Scripture by God's own written Testimony

2 Cor 3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

What is the only law being spoken of here....what was written on tablets ... not the law of Moses that was handwritten on paper with ink in a book by a human, the creation, the Ten Commandments was written by the Spirit of the living God, the only law written on tablets by God Himself.

If God in His own writing can't define His own Law Exo20:6 Deut4:13 , than nothing anyone else will say will matter, I believe it points to a bigger issue.

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

And what was added to God's tablets of stone, the Ten Commandments written by God alone....nothing.

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

So to claim 2Cor3:3 is not speaking of only the Ten Commandments- where God added no more to it, but we feel we need to add to what God said He did not, that's not trusting these plain Scriptures written by God Himself. Why would man have to complete anything for God? How can man add anything to the law of God when God's righteousness is eternal Psa 119:172 Psa 119:142 Isa 56:1-2 its the foundation of His throne Psa89:14 where the ark is that hold God's Ten Commandments Rev11:19 so these laws and foundation of God's righteousness is before Moses as God plainly stated Exo20:11. The blood of Jesus atones for the law that is broken under His mercy seat which is only the Ten Commandments.

Exo 25:21 You shall put the mercy seat (of God) on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony (Ten Commandments) that I will give you.

The law of Moses was an added law because of transgression written by Moses, not God, placed beside the ark of God's covenant as a witness against thee holding the record of sin and containing the curses and blessings for breaking the law of God the Ten Commandments that God added no more to, its the whole law of God 2Chron33:8

Deut 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you

Why 2Cor3:3 shows clearly those tablets- the Ten Commandments, the whole law of God written by God His Testimony went from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart not changing God's words just as He promised Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 but was written in a better location and the Law of God becomes part of us as we take on the character of God, who is without sin.

I think we really need to look at Scripture with the lens of God being before anyone else. If we did that we could reconcile Paul's writings to God and everyone else's because what God does Himself is eternal no one can add to it or subtract from it Ecc3:14 our only correct response is to fear God and keep His commandments Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 14:6-12 through our engrafted love and worship to our Creator John14:15-18 Rev14:6-12 so adding or taking from the Testimony of God when God plainly said He added no more, I personally do not think its wise.

SabbathBlessings · 2026-06-03T09:20:25-0500

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And those works are all God's

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Psa 78:7 That they may set their hope in God, And not forget the works of God, But keep His commandments;

Not Moses, the book only pointed to the law of God, the Ten Commandments and was added because they broke God's Law. It was a tutor to bring us to Christ. With God's commandments, the tablets of stone being written into tablets of the heart and are engraved in our hearts and minds, we no longer need the tutor, if we allow ourselves to be in God's covenant that has God's laws written in our hearts and minds Heb8:10, sadly not everyone does Rom8:7-8

Does The "Weekly Sunday Services in NT" suggestion survive Acts 13? No?

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