Does The "Weekly Sunday Services in NT" suggestion survive Acts 13? No?

BobRyan · May 14, 2026

Maria Billingsley said:
They were hearing Judaism. 1st-century Jewish worshippers gathered to hear the Torah and the Prophets, maintaining a faith centered on the Mosaic Law and the traditions of their ancestors.

Agreed. But reading Paul's sermon to the group in Acts 13 , he states that they had both Jews and Gentiles in the synagogue. They were not Christian.

Paul was engaged in evangelism. As we see in Acts 13 the chapter says he converted a number of both Jews and gentiles who were in the Synagogue that day.

Maria Billingsley said:
Gentiles who attended were often "God-fearers," individuals attracted to Jewish monotheism and morality without undergoing full conversion.

True. They were fully converted to being the children of God but neither OT nor NT required that gentiles "become Jews" in order to worship the one true God.

The subject of this thread is about the message , the gospel, that Paul was giving them and whether or not that message included the idea "if you accept the gospel I am preaching today, then join us tomorrow for our regular week day 1 Gospel service" or not.

This sermon in Acts 13 takes place more than a decade after the resurrection of Christ so then "if such a Sunday tradition" did exist after the resurrection and then spread out from Jerusalem to Antioch and then to where Paul is 10 years later in Acts 13... then we should see if gentiles converting to Christianity are being made aware of it or not in this Acts 13 test case.

Bob S · May 16, 2026

BobRyan said:
Bob S said:

The old covenant Bible Sabbath ended when the new and better covenant took its place

Click to expand...

Not true.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Paul in Rom 3:31 is not telling us we are under the Law. Establishing it does not mean we are under it' 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

BobRyan said:
Bob S said:

Time and time again, the New Testament tells us that the Law had ended.

Click to expand...

Ryan wrote:

BobRyan said:
Not true. Read the actual Bible (for example Rom 3:31)

So Bob you are then telling us we are still, under the Old Covenant?

Bob S said:
The fact is, there is nowhere in all of scripture that requires Gentiles to observe any day

BobRyan said:
Until you read the actual Bible in Mark 2:27 the Sabbath made for mankind. Is 66:23 all mankind to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath"
read the Bible

Neither of your answers addresses my statement.

Bob S said:
Wy would Paul be teaching them Sabbath observance

BobRyan said:
Gentiles ask for more gospel to be scheduled for them the next Sabbath.
read the actual OP

Where does it tell us that the Gentiles were observing the Sabbath or were Sabbath keepers? Attending Jewish services does not mean we believe what they teach.

If you are going to hang your hat on those verses, then why are you not keeping all of the Laws God gave to the Israelites?

DamianWarS · May 22, 2026

BobRyan said:
Let's read the details in Acts 13 to explore the idea that in the NT we are told about weekly Sunday worship services for Christians replacing the Bible Sabbath worship services teaching for the people of God prior to that time.

We know from Acts 18:4 they "meet every Sabbath" for gospel preaching to both Jews and gentiles

But the suggestion being tested in this thread is that even though we have "every Sabbath" gospel preaching in worship service in Acts 18:4 (for both gentiles and Jews" but WHERE is the "every week day 1" worship service content???

Some say that the NT text does indeed mention "every Sabbath" (Acts 18:4) Gospel preaching..
YET still we imagine that they would ADD something like:

"and for those here wanting MORE gospel preaching join us TOMORROW for our weekly worship service for gospel accepting Christians that want to hear the gospel each week".

So then does Acts 13 support that suggestion or slam the lid on it??

In Acts 13 we have Paul preaching the pure gospel to a group of gentiles and Jews. An event where the chapter tells us many of the Jews are not entirely happy with what is going on (as stated in the text). Yet the gentiles are very happy with what they are hearing according to the text.

ACTS 13: NKJV
42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

It is clear from the Acts 13 text and gentile response that : the ONE thing Paul is NOT saying is "join us TOMORROW for more gospel preaching". How do we know that? Because the text says the gentiles wait for the Jews to leave the meeting then go to Paul and ask for MORE Gospel preaching to be scheduled for them THE NEXT SABBATH. (as opposed to the much supposed "tomorrow on what you are calling week day 1".

That fact alone sinks the entire "every sunday worship services happened even though never mentioned " idea

Finally the Acts 13 fact that the only objection the Jews had to the Gospel message is that "it was soooo popular with the flood of gentiles that came to hear it" the NEXT Sabbath, rather than the message about a sunday service "tomorrow' where we now meet in remembrance of the resurrection, for more gospel preaching!!.

We would expect the Jews to be saying "hey wait a minute " on that first Sabbath where they also would say "you are telling gentiles that God's people meet TOMORROW?" . The fact that the Jews only have one objection once all the gentiles show up "the next Sabbath" (and even the gospel accepting gentiles do not know of a gospel preaching meeting scheduled for "tomorrow") nor does Paul mention it when requested on this topic, solidifies the observation that NO such teaching was given.!

One may contrive some sort of scenario for not telling Jews about it, but not telling gentiles about "tomorrow's meeting", gentiles who are specifically asking in a private discussion with the gentiles after the Jews leave the synagogue , only has one logical conclusion... there was NO Such meeting, and Paul's message had NO Such teaching. That is a "hard stop"

"Some" may suggest "Sunday services was an early church tradition that evolved over time, one that we can track in history
while not seeing it at all in the Bible".. What? So in Acts 13 Paul "had not thought of it yet"?

We could argue that "Paul’s presence in the synagogues every Sabbath was a strategic mission" for evangelism not for Christian weekly meetings".
The problem with that is that "solution" is that it dismisses THE ONLY example we have in all of the NT for a weekly gospel preaching worship service.

You "would think" that if they had the mission of switching the day of worship for God's people FROM the Bible Sabbath TO some other day , this message would be at the top of their agenda ENOUGH to at least mention such a weekly worship service at least ONCE. At least as often as they mention their "EVERY SABBATH" gospel preaching in Acts 18:4.. instead we have "crickets..."

Acts 13 is A great place to mention "We meet every week day 1 , so if you want more gospel preaching join us TOMORROW", instead of leaving us with a NT text that does not make such a claim even ONCE.

Yet the gentile gospel-accepting believers were given no such invitation as Acts 13 shows, and so when the Jews leave the meeting the gentiles ask for MORE Gospel preaching to be scheduled for THEM , the NEXT Sabbath.

"Every week Sunday services" not only NEVER mentioned in scripture but also clearly absent from the entire Acts 13 narrative, a Christian narrative of a very "instructive" event.

The "every week Sunday services" suggestion simply does not survive close attention to detail in Acts 13.

Acts shows the synagogue as an early launchpad to spread the gospel to the Jews and non Jews alike. But as Acts progresses that platform no longer is sustainable. Building tensions come to a point where Paul is no longer preaching he is debating and arguing and a natural transition into unique Christian places. Act 17-19 shows this tension coming to a head and Acts 20 shows the mention of a 1st day of the week event which is confirmed in history as unbroken tradition to this day. After this Paul is detained and never is released.

This isn't about 1st day of the week emphasis but rather a shift from outside of Jewish places. Acts 19 is the last synagogue mention, and it is about arguing and debating, Luke's focus is not of a welcoming like it is in Acts 13, this shift shows an increasingly unwillingness in these places. In contrast Acts 19 opens with Paul meeting believers travelling on the road and he immediately baptises them. This is an intentional move away from sacred spaces to everyday spaces and that is what the 1st day of the week is about despite its modern focus.

Luke is strategically stacking these events and he juxtaposes unique moments outside of holy days and holy places leaving an impression by the end of Acts that the gospel was spread far and wide and had a unique identity to its own nor did it discriminate based on people group, social status, place or days of the week.

The 1st day transition is not a matter of opinon it is historical fact but the distinction I would make is these are not commandments, or another day replacing the Sabbath, these are organic traditions taking shape that the early church embraced. The day you gather together should be an expression of the body of a Christ that you are a part of that is in unity with the larger body of Christ. To speak one day as wrong and another right misses this completely.

Capbook2 · May 28, 2026

Bob S said:
The old covenant Bible Sabbath ended when the new and better covenant took its place. Time and time again, the New Testament tells us that the Law had ended. This has been covered in this forum hundreds of times, yet we see posts like the above trying to prove that the Sabbath of only the old covenant Jews is still to be kept by everyone. The fact is, there is nowhere in all of scripture that requires Gentiles to observe any day, including Sunday. We are admonished to:
Hebrews 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Why would Paul be teaching them Sabbath observance when in Col2 he tells the believers not to let anyone judge them for not observing special days, new moons, and the Sabbath? Those things are shadows; they don't exist anymore.

If apostle Paul meant the "seventh day Sabbath" didn't exist anymore, why Paul kept observing it?
There are Sabbaths that were handwritten by Moses (Col 2:14), like the "seventh year sabbath" in Lev 25:4 and Lev 23, which are not included in the finger written Ten Commandments of God, Whom He had written on His peoples hearts and mind. (Heb 8:8-13)

The "Sabbath rest" in Hebrews 4:9, with Strong#G4520, in Greek "σαββατισμός sabbatismos" defined by BIble Lexicons as - Sabbath keeping, a Sabbath state etc.
It's only in this text that this Greek word "sabbatismos" is being used derived from "sabbaton" the seventh day of the week.
Verse 9 speaks of it as for "the people of God," and on verse 10 those who rested from his works, as God did rest from His work on the seventh day. (Heb 4:4)

(NAS95) Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

(NAS95+) Heb 4:9 SoG686 there remainsG620 a SabbathG4520 restG4520 for the peopleG2992 of GodG2316.

G4520 (Thayer Lexicon)
σαββατισμός sabbatismos
1) a keeping sabbath
2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G4521

G4520 (Mounce Lexicon)
σαββατισμός sabbatismos
1x: pr. a keeping of a sabbath; a state of rest, a sabbath-state, Heb_4:9.

G4521
σάββατον sabbaton
Thayer Definition:
1) the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
1a) the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
1b) a single sabbath, sabbath day

Bob S · May 28, 2026

Capbook2 said:
If apostle Paul meant the "seventh day Sabbath" didn't exist anymore, why Paul kept observing it?

If you were to attend a Sunday church to proselytize your particular beliefs, could I accuse you of Sunday keeping? Actually, you have no Biblical proof that Paul or any of the disciples were observing the old covenant Sabbath that God only gave to Israel. The Israelite Sabbath was part of the Law God gave to that nation and no other nation.

Capbook2 said:
There are Sabbaths that were handwritten by Moses (Col 2:14), like the "seventh year sabbath" in Lev 25:4 and Lev 23, which are not included in the finger written Ten Commandments of God, Whom He had written on His peoples hearts and mind. (Heb 8:8-13)

Oh please, whether written on stone or spoken, every law that God gave to the Israelites was the same. They all came from God and were to be kept equally. 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. To make sure what stood against the Israelites we need to look at another scripture Paul wrote. 2Cor 3 7-11 Paul tells us that indeed it was the Ten Commandments that stood against them. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Go ahead and try to make those words say something they do not. The fact is that Paul wrote that the Ten Commandments were the ministry of death. They were against the Israelites, condemning them when they disobeyed. Jesus nailed them to the Cross. Amen!

Capbook2 said:
The "Sabbath rest" in Hebrews 4:9, with Strong#G4520, in Greek "σαββατισμός sabbatismos" defined by BIble Lexicons as - Sabbath keeping, a Sabbath state etc.
It's only in this text that this Greek word "sabbatismos" is being used derived from "sabbaton" the seventh day of the week.
Verse 9 speaks of it as for "the people of God," and on verse 10 those who rested from his works, as God did rest from His work on the seventh day. (Heb 4:4)

(NAS95) Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

(NAS95+) Heb 4:9 SoG686 there remainsG620 a SabbathG4520 restG4520 for the peopleG2992 of GodG2316.

G4520 (Thayer Lexicon)
σαββατισμός sabbatismos
1) a keeping sabbath
2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G4521

G4520 (Mounce Lexicon)
σαββατισμός sabbatismos
1x: pr. a keeping of a sabbath; a state of rest, a sabbath-state, Heb_4:9.

G4521
σάββατον sabbaton
Thayer Definition:
1) the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
1a) the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
1b) a single sabbath, sabbath day

The book of Hebrews was written to the Jews who already were observing the Sabbath. They were given the Sabbath, yet they never entered into God's rest. Outwardly, they rested, but inwardly they never did. We can rest in Him any day or every day of the week. It is not about keeping a day, it is about believing and resting in Jesus.

Capbook2 · Friday at 4:21 AM

Bob S said:
Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. If you were to attend a Sunday church to proselytize your particular beliefs, could I accuse you of Sunday keeping? Actually, you have no Biblical proof that Paul or any of the disciples were observing the old covenant Sabbath that God only gave to Israel. The Israelite Sabbath was part of the Law God gave to that nation and no other nation.

The Sabbath is for the people of God, Israelites before, Christ believers today. (Hebrew 4:9)
Do you believe that Paul was a follower of Christ?
Christ observed the seventh day Sabbath from birth and nothing in Scripture that He kept Sunday.

Bob S said:
Oh please, whether written on stone or spoken, every law that God gave to the Israelites was the same. They all came from God and were to be kept equally. 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

I prefer to quote verses from literal word for word Bible translations rather than translations from the translators thoughts, translating not from the original Bible words.

The word "certificate" with Strong#G5498, in Greek "χειρόγραφον cheirographon" defined by Bible Lexicon as - handwriting, written by his own hand and etc.
And the word "decrees" bears Strong#G1378, in Greek "δόγμα dogma" defined by Bible Lexicon as - rules and requirements of the law of Moses.

Basing through those definitions, the one being nailed to the cross were the handwritten decrees of Moses not the fingerwritten 10 Commandments of God which the fourth is the seventh day Sabbath that was misunderstood included in Colossians 2:16,17, even the author did not follow such interpretation.

(NAS95+) Col 2:14 having canceledG1813 out R1the certificateG5498 of debtG5498 consisting of decreesG1378 againstG2596 us, whichG3739 was hostileG5227 to us; and R2He has takenG142 it out of the wayG3319, having nailedG4338 it to the crossG4716.

G5498
χειρόγραφον cheirographon
Thayer Definition:
1) a handwriting, what one has written by his own hand
2) a note of hand or writing in which one acknowledges that money has either been deposited with him or lent to him by another, to be returned at the appointed time

G1378
δόγμα dogma
Thayer Definition:
1) doctrine, decree, ordinance
1a) of public decrees
1b) of the Roman Senate
1c) of rulers
2) the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment
3) of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living
G1378
δόγμα
dogma
Thayer Definition:
1) doctrine, decree, ordinance
1a) of public decrees
1b) of the Roman Senate
1c) of rulers
2) the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment
3) of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living

Bob S said:
To make sure what stood against the Israelites we need to look at another scripture Paul wrote. 2Cor 3 7-11 Paul tells us that indeed it was the Ten Commandments that stood against them. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Was it wrong to call the Ten Commandments the "ministry that brought death?" No, because that is what the law does to us: It slays us as guilty sinners before God so that we can be resurrected by our faith by God's grace. It isn’t that the problem was with the law, but with us: The sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. (Rom 7:5)

Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

Bob S said:
Go ahead and try to make those words say something they do not. The fact is that Paul wrote that the Ten Commandments were the ministry of death. They were against the Israelites, condemning them when they disobeyed. Jesus nailed them to the Cross. Amen!

If the interpretation is true, are we free to kill, to bear false witness and violate all the rest, as the 10 Commandments where God put in His people's mind and written in their heart as non existing now?
Are those interpretations trying to say? Yes or no?

Bob S said:
The book of Hebrews was written to the Jews who already were observing the Sabbath. They were given the Sabbath, yet they never entered into God's rest. Outwardly, they rested, but inwardly they never did. We can rest in Him any day or every day of the week. It is not about keeping a day, it is about believing and resting in Jesus.

Yes, God always communicates to His people, as recorded Hebrews 4:9 was addressed to the "people of God."
Would we consider ourselves "people of God" or not?

Bob S · Friday at 10:06 AM

Capbook2 said:
The Sabbath is for the people of God, Israelites before, Christ believers today. (Hebrew 4:9)
Do you believe that Paul was a follower of Christ?
Christ observed the seventh day Sabbath from birth and nothing in Scripture that He kept Sunday.

Jesus was a Jew born under the Old Covenant. He lived and died observing the laws of that covenant. The New and better Covenant began at Jesus death on the Cross. Jesus' own blood ratified the covenant. Paul taught under the New and better Covenant. His teaching over and over was that Jews were free from the Law (Gentiles were never under the Law). Since Jews are no longer under the Law and Gentiles never were, then trying to teach that we must observe the Sabbath is Ludacris. By the way, there is not one word in all of scripture about "keeping" Sunday Mankind is not admonished to "keep" any day. We are free to assemble any time we choose. No one has the ability to keep Holy a day. Test yourself against the words in Is 58:13. I did and failed every week

Capbook2 said:
I prefer to quote verses from literal word for word Bible translations rather than translations from the translators thoughts, translating not from the original Bible words.

So, you are telling me that the Monks that handwrote scripture were inspired to write without error, but modern day transcribers are not???
Are you able to prove that the translation you use is without error?

Capbook2 said:
The word "certificate" with Strong#G5498, in Greek "χειρόγραφον cheirographon" defined by Bible Lexicon as - handwriting, written by his own hand and etc.
And the word "decrees" bears Strong#G1378, in Greek "δόγμα dogma" defined by Bible Lexicon as - rules and requirements of the law of Moses.

Basing through those definitions, the one being nailed to the cross were the handwritten decrees of Moses not the fingerwritten 10 Commandments of God which the fourth is the seventh day Sabbath that was misunderstood included in Colossians 2:16,17, even the author did not follow such interpretation.

Are you aware that the Law of Moses included the Ten Commandments? Are you aware that the Ten Commandments didn't include the greatest commands ever given, Love God and love our neighbor? Are you aware that your fingers are part of your hand? Moses didn't write with his hand, he used a pen.

Capbook2 said:
(NAS95+) Col 2:14 having canceledG1813 out R1the certificateG5498 of debtG5498 consisting of decreesG1378 againstG2596 us, whichG3739 was hostileG5227 to us; and R2He has takenG142 it out of the wayG3319, having nailedG4338 it to the crossG4716.

G5498
χειρόγραφον cheirographon
Thayer Definition:
1) a handwriting, what one has written by his own hand
2) a note of hand or writing in which one acknowledges that money has either been deposited with him or lent to him by another, to be returned at the appointed time

G1378
δόγμα dogma
Thayer Definition:
1) doctrine, decree, ordinance
1a) of public decrees
1b) of the Roman Senate
1c) of rulers
2) the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment
3) of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living
G1378
δόγμα
dogma
Thayer Definition:
1) doctrine, decree, ordinance
1a) of public decrees
1b) of the Roman Senate
1c) of rulers
2) the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment
3) of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living

Capbook2 said:
Was it wrong to call the Ten Commandments the "ministry that brought death?" No, because that is what the law does to us: It slays us as guilty sinners before God so that we can be resurrected by our faith by God's grace. It isn’t that the problem was with the law, but with us: The sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. (Rom 7:5)

Your explanation doesn't remove the fact that the Ten Commandments were against the Israelites. I didn't indicate that there was anything wrong with the Ten Commandments, but they certainly didn't include all the wrongs we are able to do to our fellow man. The New Covenant new Law of Love that Jesus gave all mankind, is perfect because it is how Jesus loves us. Jn 15:9-14

Capbook2 said:
Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

If the interpretation is true,

It is not an interpretation. All versions say the same thing. Read Gal 3, Eph 2.

Capbook2 said:
are we free to kill, to bear false witness and violate all the rest, as the 10 Commandments where God put in His people's mind and written in their heart as non existing now?

Where do you get the idea that the Ten Commandments are written in our hearts? If the Ten were written in our hearts why is it multitudes are not flocking to Sabbath-observing churches? Sabbath-observing churches are spending millions on trying to convince others to think the way they think. Even the ones you convince your way is the only way the hinges on the back doors have worn thin with all that are leaving.

Jesus said in Jn 15 that He kept His father's commands (Old Covenant laws) and asked the disciples to keep His command to Love others as He loves us. He said His love for us is so much that He would give His life for us.

Capbook2 said:
Are those interpretations trying to say? Yes or no?

Yes, God always communicates to His people, as recorded Hebrews 4:9 was addressed to the "people of God."
Would we consider ourselves "people of God" or not?

The Israelites were a special people of God. God loved Abraham so much that He made an oath to make the offspring of Isaac a special people and give them the land of milk and honey. In the New and better Covenant, all can become special.

Remember Love is the great commandment. Jesus tells us what we do for the least we have done to Him. It is not the ritual of keeping days, paying tithes, or eating only certain foods that God is interested, it how we treat all mankind.

Capbook2 · Friday at 7:25 PM

Bob S said:
Jesus was a Jew born under the Old Covenant. He lived and died observing the laws of that covenant.

Yes, as professed Christians, as followers of Christ, isn't not to observed what Christ observed through out his lifetime?

1Jn 2:6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Bob S said:
The New and better Covenant began at Jesus death on the Cross. Jesus' own blood ratified the covenant.

May we know how you define "covenant?"

Bob S said:
Paul taught under the New and better Covenant.

I cannot response yet as I don't know your definition of "covenant."

Bob S said:
His teaching over and over was that Jews were free from the Law (Gentiles were never under the Law). Since Jews are no longer under the Law and Gentiles never were, then trying to teach that we must observe the Sabbath is Ludacris.

Being Gentile, they are heathen, they were not yet God's people.
Yes, if we slaves of sin we are under the Law, but when we became slaves of righteousness, we've been freed from sin (violation of Law).

Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Bob S said:
By the way, there is not one word in all of scripture about "keeping" Sunday Mankind is not admonished to "keep" any day. We are free to assemble any time we choose. No one has the ability to keep Holy a day. Test yourself against the words in Is 58:13. I did and failed every week

Yes, Isaiah 58:13, the Sabbath is God's holy day, me likewise always fall short of the glory of God.

Isa 58:13 "If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot From doing your own pleasure on My holy day, And call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable, And honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking your own pleasure And speaking your own word,

Capbook2 · Saturday at 1:06 AM

Bob S said:
So, you are telling me that the Monks that handwrote scripture were inspired to write without error, but modern day transcribers are not???
Are you able to prove that the translation you use is without error?

As I prefer to quote and read Bible translations that abide in the process of "textual criticism" which aims to restore the Bible to its original wordings.

Textual criticism is the academic discipline and technique of analyzing ancient manuscripts or varying copies of a text to identify errors, remove alterations, and reconstruct the writing as closely as possible to its original form.

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Bob S said:
Are you aware that the Law of Moses included the Ten Commandments? Are you aware that the Ten Commandments didn't include the greatest commands ever given, Love God and love our neighbor? Are you aware that your fingers are part of your hand? Moses didn't write with his hand, he used a pen.

Yes, but the book of the law by Moses was placed beside the ark (Deut 31:26) while the Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark. (1Kings 8:9), The book of the law mostly contain the shadows that may remain a a witness against the people of God. ( Col 2:14)

Scriptures said so, that the Ten Commandments was written by the finger of God (Ex 31:18)
Bob S, when you write on a paper using a pen, do you call it finger writing or hand writing?

Deu 31:26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

Bob S, the first part of the Ten Commandments are our love to God and the second part are our love to neighbors.

Deu 6:5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

Lev 19:18 'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Bob S said:
Your explanation doesn't remove the fact that the Ten Commandments were against the Israelites. I didn't indicate that there was anything wrong with the Ten Commandments, but they certainly didn't include all the wrongs we are able to do to our fellow man. The New Covenant new Law of Love that Jesus gave all mankind, is perfect because it is how Jesus loves us. Jn 15:9-14

Again, Scriptures recorded that what was against the Israelites were recorded in the book of the law by Moses placed beside the ark.
Mostly contain the shadows written in Colossians 2:16,16,17.

Yes, our love to God and neighbors recorded in the Old Testament (Deut 6:5, Lev 19:18) Is this you refer as the new covenant?

Deu 31:26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

Bob S said:
It is not an interpretation. All versions say the same thing. Read Gal 3, Eph 2.

Yes, you state the the 10 Commandments was nailed to the cross, that's why I ask you if the 10 as you interpret as non-existent, are we now free to kill, to bear false witness and violate all the rest, as the 10 Commandments ?

Bob S said:
Where do you get the idea that the Ten Commandments are written in our hearts? If the Ten were written in our hearts why is it multitudes are not flocking to Sabbath-observing churches? Sabbath-observing churches are spending millions on trying to convince others to think the way they think. Even the ones you convince your way is the only way the hinges on the back doors have worn thin with all that are leaving.

Yes, God's Laws were written on His peoples hearts and mind.
Sabbath keepers were not spending millions, but only sharing the word of God.
God inspired Scriptures are free for sharing, just like what we are doing now.

(NAS95) Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;
Heb 8:9 NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Bob S said:
Jesus said in Jn 15 that He kept His father's commands (Old Covenant laws) and asked the disciples to keep His command to Love others as He loves us. He said His love for us is so much that He would give His life for us.

Amen.

Bob S said:
The Israelites were a special people of God. God loved Abraham so much that He made an oath to make the offspring of Isaac a special people and give them the land of milk and honey. In the New and better Covenant, all can become special.

Yes, if we are in Christ, as Christian, as follower of Christ, we are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Bob S said:
Remember Love is the great commandment. Jesus tells us what we do for the least we have done to Him. It is not the ritual of keeping days, paying tithes, or eating only certain foods that God is interested, it how we treat all mankind.

Yes, returning tithe is for the purpose that there maybe food in God's house. God created all things, we ought to be thankful for what He made for us, as we even pay our due to our government though not the creator of universe.

Jesus knows who are His disciples, that is if we love one another, by sharing God's truth.

John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Bob S · Sunday at 6:56 AM

Capbook2 said:
Yes, as professed Christians, as followers of Christ, isn't not to observed what Christ observed through out his lifetime?

1Jn 2:6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

No, Matt5 tells us "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." I believe Jesus fulfilled ( brought an end) to the Law. He brought an end to the prophecies that prophesied His coming. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Why would anyone believe he accomplished one and not the other? It never ceases to amaze me that some Christians think that Jesus didn't accomplish all He came to do.

Walking as He walked does not mean that we must keep the ritual days that God only gave to the nation of Israel. Jesus would have followed the Law that men were not allowed to cut their sideburns. There was a law that one must tear down their dwelling if mold was found in it. Jesus lived under those laws, do you?

Capbook2 said:
May we know how you define "covenant?"

A covenant is an agreement between two parties. In the case of the Israelites, God said this: Ex19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.” God's covenant with the Israelites was the Law, all 613 commands. Israel failed to fully keep the covenant God gave them. Why would anyone believe God would give all mankind the same covenant, warmed over, that the Israelites couldn't keep? The law under the Old Covenant was never a means to salvation; rather, it led to condemnation as people repeatedly broke the law and thus violated the covenant. The blood of bulls was only a temporary fix for their sins. Only the blood of Jesus can save.

Capbook2 said:
I cannot response yet as I don't know your definition of "covenant."

See above

Capbook2 said:
Being Gentile, they are heathen, they were not yet God's people.
Yes, if we slaves of sin we are under the Law, but when we became slaves of righteousness, we've been freed from sin (violation of Law).

Gal3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

Capbook2 said:
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Yes, Isaiah 58:13, the Sabbath is God's holy day, me likewise always fall short of the glory of God.

Yet you insist that others "keep" what you just admitted you do not. Week after week, those who tell us they are Sabbath "keepers" really are not. Jesus new and better covenant took away the ritual commands like the Sabbath that Israel failed to keep. Col2: 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. Like you, Israel couldn't keep the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments, so the term legal indebtedness, which stood against us, refers to the Ten Commandments, not some other excuse Sabbath observers try to make it say. Then Paul goes on to explain we are not under the food laws, new moon celebrations, seven Sabbath feast days or the weekly Sabbath because they were all shadows of what was to come. Remember 2Cor 3 telling us that the Ten Commandments WERE the ministry of death and were transitory (temporary ), replaced with the Holy Spirit?

See how Matt 5:16-17, Eph 2:15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, Gal 3, and 2Cor all work together to prove we are not under the dictates of the failed old covenant which includes the weekly Sabbath?.

Capbook2 said:
Isa 58:13 "If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot From doing your own pleasure on My holy day, And call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable, And honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking your own pleasure And speaking your own word,

That was a letter to all who were under the dictates of the old covenant. It has no meaning for Christians who understand from scripture that we are not under the commands of the failed old covenant.

HIM · Sunday at 7:35 AM

Capbook2 said:
Yes, if we are in Christ, as Christian, as follower of Christ, we are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Nice posts Capbook2. I appreciate the time you put in them.

But If we are dead but alive, yet not us that lives but Christ and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of Christ and are children of God through THE Faith in Christ, having put on Christ and are all one in Christ. Are we of Christ like the literal translation below states or do we belong to Christ as the translation you used states?
There is a difference.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God through the faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye of Christ, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

HIM · Sunday at 7:41 AM

Bob S said:
Yet you insist that others "keep" what you just admitted you do not. Week after week, those who tell us they are Sabbath "keepers" really are not.

Maybe to a Pharisee they are not, due to all their rules and judgementalness.

But God has said, to rest from all our works and keep from defiling the day.. The resting part can be easy. Holiness however might be an issue for some if they are not experiencing it through and by Christ Jesus.

HIM · Sunday at 7:45 AM

Bob S said:
so the term legal indebtedness, which stood against us, refers to the Ten Commandments,

Prove it says that by using the chapter in it's context.

Bob S · Sunday at 8:05 AM

Capbook2 said:
As I prefer to quote and read Bible translations that abide in the process of "textual criticism" which aims to restore the Bible to its original wordings.

All translated by men. You cannot escape the fact that it is/was man who, to the best of their ability, cannot or could not interpret every word to its origin. The version you have chosen is a translation of a translation.

Capbook2 said:
Textual criticism is the academic discipline and technique of analyzing ancient manuscripts or varying copies of a text to identify errors, remove alterations, and reconstruct the writing as closely as possible to its original form.

Google Search

As closely as possible.

Capbook2 said:
Yes, but the book of the law by Moses was placed beside the ark (Deut 31:26) while the Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark. (1Kings 8:9), The book of the law mostly contain the shadows that may remain a a witness against the people of God. ( Col 2:14)

What does Col 2 have to do with where all of the commands of God were located? All of the laws came from God. If the Israelite broke one of the laws found in the book that was placed outside the ark, he was still committing a sin.

Capbook2 said:
Scriptures said so, that the Ten Commandments was written by the finger of God (Ex 31:18)
Bob S, when you write on a paper using a pen, do you call it finger writing or hand writing?

Good point, but the fact is that without the handwritten laws, the Israelites would not have known how to punish those who didn't conform. They would not have had the two laws of love.

Capbook2 said:
Deu 31:26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

Bob S, the first part of the Ten Commandments are our love to God and the second part are our love to neighbors.

I refute your analysis. There was nothing concerning love in any of them, they were all about duty.

Capbook2 said:
Deu 6:5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

Lev 19:18 'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Again, Scriptures recorded that what was against the Israelites were recorded in the book of the law by Moses placed beside the ark.
Mostly contain the shadows written in Colossians 2:16,16,17.

Yes, our love to God and neighbors recorded in the Old Testament (Deut 6:5, Lev 19:18) Is this you refer as the new covenant?

Deu 31:26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

Yes, you state the the 10 Commandments was nailed to the cross, that's why I ask you if the 10 as you interpret as non-existent, are we now free to kill, to bear false witness and violate all the rest, as the 10 Commandments ?

Yes, God's Laws were written on His peoples hearts and mind.

What laws? Are the laws the ones in the Book of the law or the laws God gave to Noah and or Abraham? Or are the the new commands Jesus gave to all mankind, Love others as I have loved you. 1Jn 3:19-24 tells us we belong to the truth if 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Capbook2 said:
Sabbath keepers were not spending millions, but only sharing the word of God. God inspired Scriptures are free for sharing, just like what we are doing now.

That is not true. I was a Sabbath observer for forty years. Most of the contributions ended up trying to convert others to Sabbath "keepers". I use parenthesis because it is a misnomer.

Capbook2 said:
Yes, if we are in Christ, as Christian, as follower of Christ, we are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

And Abraham was not under the Ten Commandments

Capbook2 said:
Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Yes, returning tithe is for the purpose that there maybe food in God's house. God created all things, we ought to be thankful for what He made for us, as we even pay our due to our government though not the creator of universe.

The SDA church and all other churches that teach tithing are deceiving their members. The tithing laws were given only to Israel and those who raised crops and or animals had to pay the ten percent. The only other persons who paid a tithe were the Levites. The tithe was not levied on the sandle maker, tent maker or anyone who didn't raise crops and or animals. New Testament Christians are admonished from scripture to give out of love and need.

Capbook2 said:
Jesus knows who are His disciples, that is if we love one another, by sharing God's truth.

John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Amen! The Gospel is the Good News we are to share, not the laws of the defunct old covenant.

Bob S · Sunday at 8:39 AM

HIM said:
Maybe to a Pharisee they are not, due to all their rules and judgementalness.

Would Isaiah be considered a Pharisee when He wrote Is 58:13? That meant the Sabbath keeper must not even think about worldly things. Holiness however might be an issue for some if they are not experiencing it through and by Christ Jesus.For some, but not you? Do I have that correct? We are all sinners. Jesus does not keep us from falling (sinning). He is there to pick us up when we do.

HIM said:
But God has said, to rest from all our works and keep from defiling the day..

But God ~~has said~~ told the Israelites, to rest from all ~~our~~ their works and keep from defiling the day.

Bob S · Sunday at 8:53 AM

HIM said:
Prove it says that by using the chapter in it's context.

I already did prove it. The Ten Commandments were the ministry of death. The Israelites were judged by whether they were able to keep the Law. The Ten Commandments, along with the rest of the Law, were the legal way they were to live. They didn't adhere to the commands, so the commands were what was against them.

HIM · Sunday at 9:27 AM

Bob S said:
I already did prove it. The Ten Commandments were the ministry of death. The Israelites were judged by whether they were able to keep the Law. The Ten Commandments, along with the rest of the Law, were the legal way they were to live. They didn't adhere to the commands, so the commands were what was against them.

What you stated about Colossians 2 is what was in question not Corinthians

HIM · Sunday at 9:28 AM

Bob S said:
Would Isaiah be considered a Pharisee when He wrote Is 58:13? That meant the Sabbath keeper must not even think about worldly things. Holiness however might be an issue for some if they are not experiencing it through and by Christ Jesus.For some, but not you? Do I have that correct? We are all sinners. Jesus does not keep us from falling (sinning). He is there to pick us up when we do.

Nope just your interpretation.

HIM · Sunday at 10:04 AM

Bob S said:
Jesus does not keep us from falling (sinning)

He has given us His Spirit to cause us to walk in His way. His Law is in our hearts and minds. It is He that works in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. God is faithful. He will not suffer us to be tempted above that we are able to bear but with the temptation He gives us a way to escape, to keep us from falling. To make us perfect in every good work, working in us which is well pleasing in His sight through Christ Jesus. A glorious church. Not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing. That we should be holy without fault before Him in Love. So walk in His Spirit and we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Phil 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phil 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

HIM · Sunday at 10:10 AM

HIM said:
He has given us His Spirit to cause us to walk in His way. His Law is in our hearts and minds. It is He that works in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. God is faithful. He will not suffer us to be tempted above that we are able to bear but with the temptation He gives us a way to escape, to keep us from falling. To make us perfect in every good work, working in us which is well pleasing in His sight through Christ Jesus. A glorious church. Not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing. That we should be holy without fault before Him in Love. So walk in His Spirit and we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Phil 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phil 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

What does incontinent mean to you I wonder

2Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Does The "Weekly Sunday Services in NT" suggestion survive Acts 13? No?

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