• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
3,078
810
67
Michigan
✟615,164.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The evil in everyone remains utterly condemned at all times and in all places.

You are welcome to try to bless your defiling thoughts. Pardon me for not buying that fabrication, cough cough

There is no reasoning with the promoters of this world's religious system. You openly mock those who believe the actual Word of God. But this is nothing new and has been going on since Cain and Abel. I know I'm on the right path when men who "profess to know God", who "call Jesus Lord, Lord", utter such replies to the Scriptures I believe and reference.

I am honored by your vitriol.

Do you think Jesus had defiling thoughts? Might as well get this one out of the way.

It is written in the Holy Scriptures that the Christ, the Rock of Israel, the creator of the "Way of the Lord", became a flesh and blood mortal human in the person of Jesus. It is also written of Him in the Scriptures, that HE was tempted in all ways as I am.

It is true that in this world's religious system there are "Many", who "come in Christ's Name", who promote that the Christ didn't became a mortal flesh and blood human, like unto His Brethren, and didn't endure the same temptations as me and other men. They promote another Jesus who didn't overcome by Faith, but overcame sin and temptation by reserving God powers unto Himself, that HE withheld from all other humans, and overcame sin and temptation, not by casting down every imagination that exalted itself against the knowledge of God, as HE required of those who His Father gave Him. And not by bringing every thought that came into HIS mind into captivity unto God, as HE requires of those men who God gave Him. They preach that Jesus overcame sin and temptation "because" HE came to earth 100% God.

These "many", who have transformed themselves into apostles of Christ, preach against much of the Bible, including what "SIN" is.

James 1: 12 Blessed is "the man" that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, "he shall receive the crown of life", which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

It is written that Jesus is the first to receive this crown, the first of "many", who endure temptation.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But the man Jesus was tempted with Evil, and HE endured the temptation as it is written.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 "Then" when lust hath conceived, "it bringeth forth sin": and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

So the Jesus "of the Bible" was tempted, just as every man is tempted. At least the Jesus "of the Bible" was.

I will finish my reply in another post.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
3,078
810
67
Michigan
✟615,164.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
There is no remedy for the evil present within us all. Zero. We all have defiling thoughts. Even in reigning over they remain what they are, defiling. There's no legitimately dodging this fact without falling into deceptive lies.

I'm pretty sure the evil in everyone continues to work directly against God in every way conceivable.

You are the perfect representative of this world's religious system. Jesus said to those HE forgave, "Now go and Sin no more". He tells us, "If you will enter life, keep the Commandments". He tells us, "Man shall live by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God". He tells us "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". He teaches us to "Deny ourselves", pick up our life's experienced and follow Him." He says that only those men who are "Doers" of His Sayings, shall stand in the end". The Law and Prophets teach the same exact thing. Paul also, "Pressed for the mark of the Prize of the High calling of God which was the perfection that was in Christ Jesus". Telling men to "Yield themselves servants to obey God", not this world's religious system. I could go one and on and on about the requirement given by God to, as Paul teaches, "Repent, turn to God and do works worth of repentance".

But just as in the garden, and throughout the Biblical history of the world, and the Exodus Journey of Israel through the wilderness towards the promised land, there are voices like yours whispering in our ear every day, "Don't listen to Jesus, you will never overcome temptation". Whispering in our ear, "don't believe Him, you cannot resist the wiles of the devil". Whispering in my ear even now, "The Words of God are a lie, you shall surely not die". "The Armor of God cannot help you". Whispering in my ear even now, "You cannot "cast down" imaginations that exalt itself against the knowledge of God", and "Bringing into captivity every thought is not possible, and doesn't matter anyway, because you are defiled the second the thought goes into your mind".

But by the Grace of God, I have been freed from your whispering, by the Word of God who became Flesh and Blood.

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

And the Jesus "of the bible" has prepared me for your philosophy.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that "no man" deceive you. 5 For "many" shall come "in my name", saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

He could have warned about Atheists, Islam, Satanism, or Buddhism but HE didn't. HE warned me specifically about men, "Who come in His Name".

We have all been placed by God into a world in which there are religions who profess to know God. Just as Adam and Eve were placed in a world in which a religion existed that "professed to know God". Like Abram, as Jesus also instructs us, we are told to deny ourself, pick up our life's experience, and follow Him. It was the same for Caleb, David, Shadrack, Zacharias, Simeon, Peter, James, Paul, and God also placed His Own Son, the Lord's Christ, the Jesus "of the Bible", in the same world in which existed religions whose promoters "Professed to know God".

And here I am, in the same exact world, surrounded by the same exact religions, who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate".


The LAST thing religious people want to do is to confess their internal defiling thoughts, not specifically. Just the fact that they have them and that they are defiling. No, instead they want to "white wash" them and "excuse" them. Make them NOT defiling.

You see the instant you undersand that the defiling thoughts are that, your entire premise of legality in any form flies out the window in favor of reality of being a factual defiling sinner.

There is no option on the table to be sinless by choices if this is what you are proposing. The defiling thoughts remain on the table for everyone including you and I which is why we are in fact as Paul stated, NO BETTER.

Again, your preaching, and the Apostle James teaching, concerning what defiles, are two completely different doctrines. But you are here to justify yourself, and justify your religion, so I doubt there will be any honest, unbiased discussion about what is actually written. Just as there wasn't with the mainstream religions of Jesus Time, or Isaiah's time, or Abraham's time.

There is no new thing under the sun.

And concerning your twisting of Paul's words in Romans 3. Lets look at what is actually written there as well.

Rom. 3: 7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

8 And not rather, (as "we be slanderously reported", and "as some affirm that we say",) Let us do evil, that good may come? "whose damnation is just".

9 What then? "are we better than they"?

Can Paul behave in the same manner as the Jews who were given the Oracles of God but do not believe them? Who are lying about Him, whose damnation is just? "No, in no wise: "for we have before proved" both Jews and Gentiles, that "they" (Not "we") are all under sin;

So did you even attempt to seek Gods Truth, and search to find out where Paul "Before Proved" these things? Of course not. But I did. And here is where Paul "before Proved" that "they", both Jew and Gentile are "All under Sin".

Romans 2:
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart "treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation "of the righteous judgment of God";

6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

7 "To them" who by patient continuance in well doing "seek for" glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 "But unto them" that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon "every soul of man" that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile (whose damnation is just)

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to "every man" that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

So here is where Paul before Proved that Jew and Gentiles that do evil, like the Jews who persecuted the church of God, "whose damnation is just", are all still under sin. And Paul and the body of Christ are not better than they are. If Paul turns away from the Righteousness of God, like the Jews did, he will receive the same judgment of God against himself. "For there is no respect of persons with God".

But will you recant your teaching? Repent of your error? Thank me for pointing this out to you?

No, I doubt that you will humble yourself what Paul actually teaches, though I truly wish you world. I all likeness, you will continue to justify yourself, and mock me for believing what is written in the Holy Scriptures. You will continue teaching that a thought that comes into our mind, defiles us whether we bring it into captivity to the obedience of Christ or not. And you will continue to discourage everyone you preach to, that Paul teaches there is no difference between a person who "Yields himself a servant to obey God", from the person who rejects God's Judgments, statutes and Commandments.

What I advocate is that a man turns away from this world's religious system, or as the Christ of the Bible teaches, "Come out of her", and humbles himself to what is actually written. There is no sense in addressing the rest of your post, because if you were to humble yourself to Paul's actual teaching, you would be renewed in the spirit of your mind and would stop promoting such foolishness.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
3,078
810
67
Michigan
✟615,164.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
None of which is scriptural evidence...

But the Biblical Fact that both Adam and Eve chose to believe something about God's Word that was not True, is Biblical evidence, I just gave an example of my own experience that confirmed this capacity. If you don't believe you have the capacity to believe something that is not true, I would say this belief in itself proves you wrong, according to what is written in Scriptures.

None of which is scriptural evidence.

John 7: 45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? 46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.

Is this not scriptural evidence that the "Word of God" was unique to men throughout the Bible? Why are you so reluctant to accept such an undeniable biblical Fact.

And yet, when Adam sinned, it was not because he believed Satan's lies, but because he rebelled against what he knew to be true.

But if Adam truly believed God concerning the consequence of eating that which God forbad him to eat, as told him by God, he wouldn't have eaten it. It was by his "Works" that we know Adam chose not to believe the Truth. This same thing is repeated over and over again throughout the Bible. Abraham did truly believe God. And this is evident in God's declaration.

Gen. 26: 2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 "Because" that Abraham obeyed my voice, and "kept" my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

You don't believe these things? Truly you have free will from God to choose not to. But I choose to exercise my free will, given to me by God, to choose to believe Him.
Genuine faith in Jesus Christ results in good works, but we don't do them to be accepted; rather, we do them because we have been accepted.

That sounds all churchy and everything, and truly that is what this world's religious system promotes. But those who obey submit themselves to God's Righteousness, choose to do so because they Believe Him. And those who reject His Judgments, His Feasts, His Commandments God created for them, as Paul teaches, "For their sakes no doubt", do so because they don't believe Him.

This is undisputed truth of the scriptures.

Heb. 3: 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, "but to them that believed not"?

19 So we see that they could not enter in "because" of unbelief.


Satan was not a "mainstream preacher"!

He most certainly was. He was the promoter of this world's religious system. He was believed on by the majority of humans that existed in the world at that time. His religious philosophy was believed on in Noah's time my the majority as well. And Abraham's Time. And Caleb's and David's. He was the mainstream preacher of this world in Paul's time, and also believed on by the majority of humans "who professed to know God".

Every example of Faithful man in the entire bible has been deceived by this mainstream preacher, but "came out of" this world's religious system it promoted, as Paul confirms.

Eph. 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past "ye walked" according to the course of this world, "according to the prince of the power of the air", the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

You claim this freedom to believe the truth or lies, but where is your scriptural evidence? The Bible states that faith is a gift from God that not everyone has.

No, the bible doesn't preach that Faith is a gift of God. Grace is a gift of God. Faith in God is belief in God.

Gal. 3: 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith (Belief in God), "the same" are the children of Abraham.

The Bible never says that belief in Jesus Christ is a result of sinful man's will. It does state that faith is a gift from God.

No, the mainstream religious system of this world teaches that Faith is a gift from God. Not the Bible.

Matt. 17: 19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith (Belief) as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Abraham had Faith in God. Abraham believed God. They are the same exact thing and Jesus Himself demonstrates here.

The scripture is true, of course; but, it is our bodies that are the temple of God, not just our mind.

As the Scriptures teach. In this I absolutely agree with you, as do the Holy Scriptures. So when the Spirit of God says for men to "Be Holy, for I am Holy", means to submit both the mind and body to God's Holiness.

As the Bible states, the law is not of faith;

What LAW is not of Faith? Please try and rid your mind of all the religious traditions and doctrines we have both heard since our youth and please just consider who Paul is speaking about here. Were the bewitchers of the Galatians trying to get the Galatians to Love the Lord their God will all their soul and all their might? Were they trying to get the Galatians to Love their neighbor as themselves? To believe that I would have to reject "EVERY WORD" Jesus spoke to define their religion.

Or were they trying to get the Galatians to come to them for the atonement of their sins, and bring a goat to the Levite Priest and "Kill it", according to a Law Abraham didn't have, but wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years after him. "ADDED" because of the Golden Calf transgression, and was to be in place until the Messiah should come.

The God of Abraham was not the Father of the Pharisees. If you want to understand Paul's teaching about the Pharisees, read Isaiah 1:1-20. Here are the Pharisees, a sinful people who full well rejected "the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition". These men taught for doctrines the Commandments of men, not God. Yet, every week they would offer to God for their willful sins, the blood of an unblemished, innocent life, "As per the Added Law". You will see that both Paul and Isaiah both teach that the flesh is not justified by the "Works of the Law". As it is written about them:

Is. 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

The Temporary "LAW of Works", that didn't exist anywhere in scriptures until after Moses went up to God a second time to secure another covenant,

LEV. 4: 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock "without blemish" unto the LORD for a sin offering.

4 And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and "kill the bullock" before the LORD. "and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them".

This is the LAW of Works Abraham didn't have, ADDED after the Golden Calf incident, that was only to be in force until the Messiah should come.

This LAW was not of faith, remission of sin was provided by a "Work of the Law".

You can read this for yourself.

but, salvation is by grace (unmerited favour) through faith in Jesus Christ. Ez. 18:20,21 is law, not gospel.

The above proves you are in error.

Ez. 18: 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. This is the LAW of God Moses brought to us)

21 But "if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed", and keep all my statutes, and "do that which is lawful and right", he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done "he shall live".

This is the Grace and Truth that Jesus Brought. This IS the Gospel of Christ that both Jesus and Paul promoted. Were is there even a mention of killing a bullock here? And why is it missing? Because God never desired the blood of goats and bulls. This was a shadow of what the Christ would do for them.

The Bible teaches that Christ gave His Gospel to the Israelites first.

Rom. 10: 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, "who hath believed our report"? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Gal. 3: 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Heb. 4: 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith (Belief) in them that heard it.

So your adopted religious philosophy that Ezekiel or Isaiah did not promote the Gospel of Christ is scripturally untrue. Paulo teaches the exact same Gospel as Ezikiel.

Acts 26: 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent (From transgressing God's Laws) and turn to God, and do works (That are Lawful and right) meet for repentance.

Same Spirit of Christ, Same Gospel.

But we are servants to who we choose to obey (Believe)

If a man is seeking the Righteousness of God as the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs, he will find it. If a man is only interested in justifying an adopted religion, like the Pharisees were only interested in doing, they will be given over to the imaginations of their unrepentant heart.

I hope you might consider what the Scriptures actually teach, when all of them are considered.
 
Upvote 0

David1701

God is good!
Sep 28, 2020
395
181
Aberdeenshire
✟39,997.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
But the Biblical Fact that both Adam and Eve chose to believe something about God's Word that was not True, is Biblical evidence, ...
Eve was deceived, but Adam was not. He rebelled against God, without disbelieving what God had said.

1 Tim. 2:14 (W.P.N.T.) Also, Adam was not deceived; rather, the woman, being deceived, became a transgressor.

Since you have your foundational view wrong, the rest of the edifice is also unsound.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
3,078
810
67
Michigan
✟615,164.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Eve was deceived, but Adam was not. He rebelled against God, without disbelieving what God had said.

You have no scriptural evidence that Adam committed suicide, but that's the implication of your preaching here..

Gen. 3: 17 And unto Adam he said, Because "thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife", and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Adam chose to believe the words of His Wife over the Words of God. At least this is what the Scriptures say. You can find this same teaching in your own Bible, but it is your choice whether or not to believe it.

It is not possible for a man to believe God with all his heart and mind, and yet reject HIS Words and choose to believe the Words of another instead.

But you are looking for an off ramp, so off you go.

Thanks for the discussion.
 
Upvote 0

David1701

God is good!
Sep 28, 2020
395
181
Aberdeenshire
✟39,997.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
You have no scriptural evidence that Adam committed suicide, but that's the implication of your preaching here..

Gen. 3: 17 And unto Adam he said, Because "thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife", and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Adam chose to believe the words of His Wife over the Words of God. At least this is what the Scriptures say. You can find this same teaching in your own Bible, but it is your choice whether or not to believe it.

It is not possible for a man to believe God with all his heart and mind, and yet reject HIS Words and choose to believe the Words of another instead.

But you are looking for an off ramp, so off you go.

Thanks for the discussion.
I gave you the scriptural proof (not merely evidence) that Adam was not deceived (he did not believe a lie), but you omitted it from your quote of my post - not a very honest thing to do...

1 Tim. 2:14 (W.P.N.T.) Also, Adam was not deceived; rather, the woman, being deceived, became a transgressor

Believing in God is not just a matter of accepting facts about him; it is about trusting in and relying upon him.
 
Upvote 0

BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
Jun 2, 2024
2,199
229
72
Florida
✟102,657.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
You are the perfect representative of this world's religious system. Jesus said to those HE forgave, "Now go and Sin no more". He tells us,
IF you are claiming sinlessness, just spit it out and say so and I can have a good hearty laugh.

You've already admitted that isn't the case and guess what? It never will be in this present life.

And you can spare me the "worlds religious" problems routine. That same system that sells them off the hook of knowing they are sinners has sold the same bill of phony goods to your own position.

I don't buy lies. Neither does Jesus
 
Upvote 0

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2024
5,220
3,509
77
Paignton
✟156,252.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
You are the perfect representative of this world's religious system. Jesus said to those HE forgave, "Now go and Sin no more". He tells us, "If you will enter life, keep the Commandments". He tells us, "Man shall live by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God". He tells us "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". He teaches us to "Deny ourselves", pick up our life's experienced and follow Him." He says that only those men who are "Doers" of His Sayings, shall stand in the end". The Law and Prophets teach the same exact thing. Paul also, "Pressed for the mark of the Prize of the High calling of God which was the perfection that was in Christ Jesus". Telling men to "Yield themselves servants to obey God", not this world's religious system. I could go one and on and on about the requirement given by God to, as Paul teaches, "Repent, turn to God and do works worth of repentance".

But just as in the garden, and throughout the Biblical history of the world, and the Exodus Journey of Israel through the wilderness towards the promised land, there are voices like yours whispering in our ear every day, "Don't listen to Jesus, you will never overcome temptation". Whispering in our ear, "don't believe Him, you cannot resist the wiles of the devil". Whispering in my ear even now, "The Words of God are a lie, you shall surely not die". "The Armor of God cannot help you". Whispering in my ear even now, "You cannot "cast down" imaginations that exalt itself against the knowledge of God", and "Bringing into captivity every thought is not possible, and doesn't matter anyway, because you are defiled the second the thought goes into your mind".

But by the Grace of God, I have been freed from your whispering, by the Word of God who became Flesh and Blood.

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

And the Jesus "of the bible" has prepared me for your philosophy.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that "no man" deceive you. 5 For "many" shall come "in my name", saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

He could have warned about Atheists, Islam, Satanism, or Buddhism but HE didn't. HE warned me specifically about men, "Who come in His Name".

We have all been placed by God into a world in which there are religions who profess to know God. Just as Adam and Eve were placed in a world in which a religion existed that "professed to know God". Like Abram, as Jesus also instructs us, we are told to deny ourself, pick up our life's experience, and follow Him. It was the same for Caleb, David, Shadrack, Zacharias, Simeon, Peter, James, Paul, and God also placed His Own Son, the Lord's Christ, the Jesus "of the Bible", in the same world in which existed religions whose promoters "Professed to know God".

And here I am, in the same exact world, surrounded by the same exact religions, who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate".




Again, your preaching, and the Apostle James teaching, concerning what defiles, are two completely different doctrines. But you are here to justify yourself, and justify your religion, so I doubt there will be any honest, unbiased discussion about what is actually written. Just as there wasn't with the mainstream religions of Jesus Time, or Isaiah's time, or Abraham's time.

There is no new thing under the sun.

And concerning your twisting of Paul's words in Romans 3. Lets look at what is actually written there as well.

Rom. 3: 7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

8 And not rather, (as "we be slanderously reported", and "as some affirm that we say",) Let us do evil, that good may come? "whose damnation is just".

9 What then? "are we better than they"?

Can Paul behave in the same manner as the Jews who were given the Oracles of God but do not believe them? Who are lying about Him, whose damnation is just? "No, in no wise: "for we have before proved" both Jews and Gentiles, that "they" (Not "we") are all under sin;

So did you even attempt to seek Gods Truth, and search to find out where Paul "Before Proved" these things? Of course not. But I did. And here is where Paul "before Proved" that "they", both Jew and Gentile are "All under Sin".

Romans 2:
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart "treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation "of the righteous judgment of God";

6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

7 "To them" who by patient continuance in well doing "seek for" glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 "But unto them" that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon "every soul of man" that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile (whose damnation is just)

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to "every man" that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

So here is where Paul before Proved that Jew and Gentiles that do evil, like the Jews who persecuted the church of God, "whose damnation is just", are all still under sin. And Paul and the body of Christ are not better than they are. If Paul turns away from the Righteousness of God, like the Jews did, he will receive the same judgment of God against himself. "For there is no respect of persons with God".

But will you recant your teaching? Repent of your error? Thank me for pointing this out to you?

No, I doubt that you will humble yourself what Paul actually teaches, though I truly wish you world. I all likeness, you will continue to justify yourself, and mock me for believing what is written in the Holy Scriptures. You will continue teaching that a thought that comes into our mind, defiles us whether we bring it into captivity to the obedience of Christ or not. And you will continue to discourage everyone you preach to, that Paul teaches there is no difference between a person who "Yields himself a servant to obey God", from the person who rejects God's Judgments, statutes and Commandments.

What I advocate is that a man turns away from this world's religious system, or as the Christ of the Bible teaches, "Come out of her", and humbles himself to what is actually written. There is no sense in addressing the rest of your post, because if you were to humble yourself to Paul's actual teaching, you would be renewed in the spirit of your mind and would stop promoting such foolishness.
When Jesus was asked which was the greatest commandment, He replied:

(Mar 12:29 NKJV) Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'HEAR, O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.
(Mar 12:30 NKJV) AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' This is the first commandment.

Yes, of course as Christians we are to strive to be more and more holy, but in this life we shall never be absolutely sinless. Which one of us can truly say that for every second since becoming a Christian, they have loved God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength?
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
3,078
810
67
Michigan
✟615,164.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
When Jesus was asked which was the greatest commandment, He replied:

(Mar 12:29 NKJV) Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'HEAR, O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.
(Mar 12:30 NKJV) AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' This is the first commandment.

Yes David, this is why in my understanding, that Jesus said;

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

But this world's religious system don't believe these Words, at least according to their works. And the Pharisees, the mainstream Religion of Jesus, Stephen and Paul's Time certainly didn't believe these Words when the Same Christ spoke them in Duet. 8:3.

Paul Labored for the perfection Jesus commanded, shall I not do the same?

Ph. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark "for the prize" of the high calling of God "in Christ Jesus".

Isn't this pressing toward the "Perfection" that was in Christ Jesus? The perfection the promoters of this world's religions constantly tell me is impossible to reach, constantly mocking me and ridiculing me for advocating that we too, press towards the same Perfection that Jesus Himself commanded of us?

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Shouldn't a man seeking the Righteousness of God, believe in His Word enough to become a "Doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only?
Yes, of course as Christians we are to strive to be more and more holy,

By whose definition of "Holy", shall a man strive for David? The Definition of the Word of God that proceeds from the mouth of God as Inspired by the Holy Scriptures? Or the definitions of man through the traditions, philosophies and judgments promoted by the religions of this world.

It's a legitimate question.

but in this life we shall never be absolutely sinless.

Again, that is what we have been taught by this world's reliigons, not by the Holy scriptures.

Ez. 18: 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Is this not the Law Moses brought?)

21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, "they shall not be mentioned unto him": in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. (Is this not the Grace and Truth Jesus brought)

Is. 1: 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 "If ye be willing and obedient", ye shall eat the good of the land:

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, "walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless".

Num. 14: 22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it: 24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, "and hath followed me fully", him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

1 Kings 11: 38 And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee.

You have your judgments David, but they are not God's Judgment. Shall I not listen to God?

Here is why we have been given so great a cloud of witnesses, at least according to the Inspired Word of God.

Heb. 12: 1 Wherefore (Because of this) seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and "the sin which doth so easily beset us", and let us run with patience "the race that is set before us",

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, "striving against sin".

The whole point of the Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible", is to persuade us to voluntarily, of our own free will, turn away from despising and rejecting God's Judgments, Statutes and Commandments HE created "For our sakes no doubt". And to "Deny Ourselves", "Yield ourselves", "Submit ourselves", "Offer Ourselves" to the Word of God. To "Go and transgress God's Commandments no more". to "Cast down every imagination that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God. To bring every thought into Captivity, into the obedience of Christ, refusing to allow it to influence our behavior.

I believe we have all been placed into a world in which these other voices exist, "who profess to know God". And we have all been instructed as Abraham was, to "Deny ourselves", pick up our lives experiences, and Follow Him". Not just hear Him, but submit ourselves to become "Doers" of His Sayings, not hearers only.

But this Path, this way of life, as Jesus said, is a Narrow Path that few enter.

Which one of us can truly say that for every second since becoming a Christian, they have loved God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength?

What does it matter what I did yesterday? Can I go back in time and change it? Did God give me any power at all to go back and undo something I did yesterday, or even 10 minutes ago? No David, HE Didn't give me any power to go back in time. And I have no power over what happens tomorrow either, I can't even know what will happen. The only time I have any power given to me by God, is "NOW". This is undeniable Truth. As it is written, "Today, if you will hear His Voice, harden not your hearts". If I Labor, Strive, if I am Diligent with all my heart, to "Let this mind be in my that was in Christ Jesus, "NOW", then I will Love God. And if I work "to retain God in my knowledge", then I will Love God, as it is written that Jesus referenced;

Deut. 6: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt "talk of them" when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. 9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

How is this even possible by adopting a worldly religion that despises God's Judgments and creates their own judgments concerning what is clean, righteous and Holy? How is this possible by adopting a religion that has created an image in the likeness of man? How is this possible by adopting a religion that despises and rejects the Feasts of the Lord, choosing instead to create their own high days in worship of their image of God?

We have everything we need in the Holy Scriptures to enable a man of God to become "Perfect", at least this is what Paul teaches.

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished "unto all good works".

I simply advocate that we strive for the Path Jesus walked, as opposed to the broad Path promoted by the religions of this world.
 
Upvote 0

JulieB67

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2020
2,421
1,065
58
Ohio US
✟251,662.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think as Christians we should definitely strive for that maturity that can be achieved through his Word, etc. That can certainly take years even a lifetime in some cases where true repentance has set in. But when one is striving for that it becomes much easier to put the spirit over the flesh. Will we always succeed? Of course not. No one will ever be sinless in the flesh.

But The entire ministry by Christ and the disciples/apostles teach us that is what we should be doing -put on the new man, renew your mind, walk in the Spirit so you will not gratify the desires of the flesh and so on. Because we were created to do so.

If someone disagrees with that notion than they are basically stating that Christ and following ministry are wasting their time telling us to put on the new man, walk in the Spirit, etc.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2024
5,220
3,509
77
Paignton
✟156,252.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Yes David, this is why in my understanding, that Jesus said;

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

But this world's religious system don't believe these Words, at least according to their works. And the Pharisees, the mainstream Religion of Jesus, Stephen and Paul's Time certainly didn't believe these Words when the Same Christ spoke them in Duet. 8:3.

Paul Labored for the perfection Jesus commanded, shall I not do the same?

Ph. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark "for the prize" of the high calling of God "in Christ Jesus".

Isn't this pressing toward the "Perfection" that was in Christ Jesus? The perfection the promoters of this world's religions constantly tell me is impossible to reach, constantly mocking me and ridiculing me for advocating that we too, press towards the same Perfection that Jesus Himself commanded of us?

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Shouldn't a man seeking the Righteousness of God, believe in His Word enough to become a "Doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only?


By whose definition of "Holy", shall a man strive for David? The Definition of the Word of God that proceeds from the mouth of God as Inspired by the Holy Scriptures? Or the definitions of man through the traditions, philosophies and judgments promoted by the religions of this world.

It's a legitimate question.



Again, that is what we have been taught by this world's reliigons, not by the Holy scriptures.

Ez. 18: 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Is this not the Law Moses brought?)

21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, "they shall not be mentioned unto him": in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. (Is this not the Grace and Truth Jesus brought)

Is. 1: 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 "If ye be willing and obedient", ye shall eat the good of the land:

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, "walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless".

Num. 14: 22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it: 24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, "and hath followed me fully", him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

1 Kings 11: 38 And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee.

You have your judgments David, but they are not God's Judgment. Shall I not listen to God?

Here is why we have been given so great a cloud of witnesses, at least according to the Inspired Word of God.

Heb. 12: 1 Wherefore (Because of this) seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and "the sin which doth so easily beset us", and let us run with patience "the race that is set before us",

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, "striving against sin".

The whole point of the Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible", is to persuade us to voluntarily, of our own free will, turn away from despising and rejecting God's Judgments, Statutes and Commandments HE created "For our sakes no doubt". And to "Deny Ourselves", "Yield ourselves", "Submit ourselves", "Offer Ourselves" to the Word of God. To "Go and transgress God's Commandments no more". to "Cast down every imagination that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God. To bring every thought into Captivity, into the obedience of Christ, refusing to allow it to influence our behavior.

I believe we have all been placed into a world in which these other voices exist, "who profess to know God". And we have all been instructed as Abraham was, to "Deny ourselves", pick up our lives experiences, and Follow Him". Not just hear Him, but submit ourselves to become "Doers" of His Sayings, not hearers only.

But this Path, this way of life, as Jesus said, is a Narrow Path that few enter.



What does it matter what I did yesterday? Can I go back in time and change it? Did God give me any power at all to go back and undo something I did yesterday, or even 10 minutes ago? No David, HE Didn't give me any power to go back in time. And I have no power over what happens tomorrow either, I can't even know what will happen. The only time I have any power given to me by God, is "NOW". This is undeniable Truth. As it is written, "Today, if you will hear His Voice, harden not your hearts". If I Labor, Strive, if I am Diligent with all my heart, to "Let this mind be in my that was in Christ Jesus, "NOW", then I will Love God. And if I work "to retain God in my knowledge", then I will Love God, as it is written that Jesus referenced;

Deut. 6: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt "talk of them" when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. 9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

How is this even possible by adopting a worldly religion that despises God's Judgments and creates their own judgments concerning what is clean, righteous and Holy? How is this possible by adopting a religion that has created an image in the likeness of man? How is this possible by adopting a religion that despises and rejects the Feasts of the Lord, choosing instead to create their own high days in worship of their image of God?

We have everything we need in the Holy Scriptures to enable a man of God to become "Perfect", at least this is what Paul teaches.

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished "unto all good works".

I simply advocate that we strive for the Path Jesus walked, as opposed to the broad Path promoted by the religions of this world.
Yes, I certainly agree that we should, as Christians , be striving to be more and more as Jesus would have as be, "holy", in other words. You ask whose definition of holy. I would say without hesitation, God's, as stated in various places in Scripture. For example:

(1Pe 1:13) Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
(1Pe 1:14) as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance;
(1Pe 1:15) but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
(1Pe 1:16) because it is written, "BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

You say that my judgments are not God's, but I have not put forward my own judgments about sin and holiness, but quoted God's word. I do apologise if it came over as me being judgemental - I certainly didn't intend that.

Thank you very much for all the effort you put into replying.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
3,078
810
67
Michigan
✟615,164.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes, I certainly agree that we should, as Christians , be striving to be more and more as Jesus would have as be, "holy", in other words. You ask whose definition of holy. I would say without hesitation, God's, as stated in various places in Scripture. For example:

(1Pe 1:13) Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
(1Pe 1:14) as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance;
(1Pe 1:15) but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
(1Pe 1:16) because it is written, "BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

Yes, Peter is Quoting God's Word. Here, lets go there to see the context of God's Word that Peter was teaching.

Lev. 11:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

Then God goes on to define for HIS Children, in great detail, what is food and what is not food. The same way every "father" on the planet defines for his little girl or little boy, what is food and what is not food. In Fact, Every decent father fights for and demands the RIGHT to define for their own Children, what is food and what is not food. This is an undeniable fact. My daughter would run around the yard before she knew better, and would eat anything. I caught her with a dog turd once and she ran away from me to keep me from taking it from her. Of course, as she grew she became "learned of her father", concerning what was food, what was drink etc.

Now there are many very important things for a father to teach their children, so life is more than food and drink. Nevertheless, we are created to eat and drink to survive, therefore it is incumbent for the father to teach their children HIS truth concerning what is and what is not food. Just as God is doing for HIS Children here.

44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and "ye shall be holy; for I am holy": neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

45 For I am the LORD (The FATHER) that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt (SIN), to be your God (Father): ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To "make a difference" between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that "may not" be eaten.

This is just ONE of "many" judgments, statutes and commandments of God that are despised and full well rejected by this world's religious system. Oh, they search the Bible and find a verse talking about eating food with hands that were not washed according to some man-made religious tradition of the Jews, then they separate this one verse from the rest of the Bible, then create the religious philosophy that makes Void God's Entire Judgment concerning what is food and what is not food. The hypocrisy is astonishing. They demand the right to teach there own children these things, but deny the God and Father of all the same Right, just so they can justify fulfilling the lusts of their flesh to do whatever they want. It makes for a very seductive religion, and certainly a great marketing strategy for the religious sects and businesses of this world as they compete with each other for contributing members to fill the seats of their shrines of worship made of wood and stone.

What does it say for my Love of the Father, as a son, if I refuse to even submit myself to Him, in something as easy to understand, easy to obey and something as basic as the Father's teaching His children concerning what is food?

Jesus said for me not to worry about these things, for my Father knows I have need of food and drink. HE said:

Matt. 6: 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and "his righteousness"; and all these things shall be added unto you.

And sure enough, my Father details for me perfectly all these things, just as Jesus Promised.

But what good is the instruction, if a man refuses to "yield themselves" to it.

These are relevant questions. And there are many more. Like the worldly tradition of creating images in the likeness of a handsome man. How many times did Christ, the Holy One of Israel, the "Word of God" who became flesh, Command, warn against and punish Israel for creating images in the likeness of anything on earth or in heaven? They are too many to count. And yet, this world's religious system that call Jesus Lord, Lord, have clearly done this very thing.

Jesus would never, and did never condone such a willful sin against Gods Commandment.

And the Feasts of the Lord, why did God give them to His Children if they are not important? And yet this world's religions despise the Feasts of the Lord, judging them as "worthless Jewish Traditions", and create instead their own high days in worship of the image of God they created.

God's Sabbath that HE made Holy and Sanctified, rejected by most, polluted by others, replaced with a sabbath accepted by the entire world.

How can a man Love God with all his heart, and honor His Instruction, "therefore be holy, for I am holy.", when they have such little regard in their hearts for HIS definition of Holy? Jesus says HE doesn't even know these people, "who call Him Lord, Lord". Shall we not "Hearken to His Voice, and believe HIM? And "Come out of" these religions, like Noah, Abraham, Caleb, David, Shadrach, John the Baptist Peter, James, Paul and EVERY EXAMPLE of Faithful men in the Bible did?

You and I David, we were placed by God into a world where these religions exist, "who profess to know God". Just as Adam and Eve, Noah and Abraham, Caleb and David, Zacharias and John the Baptist, and the Lord's Christ Himself, Christ Jesus.

Shall we not talk about these things? Jesus and Paul and Peter and James sure did talk about the religious system of the world God placed them in.

In closing, please understand that this is not a judgment against you, rather, it is an unbiased, Truthful representation of the religions we are surrounded by. This was a tough pill to swallow for Lot's wife and "many" other examples throughout the entire bible? It was a tough pill to swallow for me, and the cost to deny my old self and follow Christ was not small.

John 7: 45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? 46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. 47 Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived? 48 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him? 49 But this people who knoweth not the law (Of the Pharisees, not God) are cursed.

I post this in Love of the Brethren, but if you would prefer not to talk about these things, I understand and will not continue.


You say that my judgments are not God's, but I have not put forward my own judgments about sin and holiness, but quoted God's word. I do apologise if it came over as me being judgemental - I certainly didn't intend that.

Thank you very much for all the effort you put into replying.

I'm sorry, I may not have explained myself adequately here. I was speaking about the popular judgment against God, that HE pleads with people to turn to Him and submit themselves to His Statutes, Judgments and Commandments for their own good, but then places on their necks Laws impossible for them to obey, implying that God lied to them when HE told them they could obey, but then killed them anyway, when the didn't obey. This judgement of God is widespread and popular with the promoters of this world's religious system, but is not supported by the Scriptures, if all of them are considered.

I don't believe there is any malice in your heart in furthering this philosophy, any more than Eve had malice in her heart when she gave Adam to eat, what God had already judged as not food.

And it is good, in my view, to have honest discussions about sometimes uncomfortable topics. Thanks for your input as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: David Lamb
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
3,078
810
67
Michigan
✟615,164.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I gave you the scriptural proof (not merely evidence) that Adam was not deceived (he did not believe a lie), but you omitted it from your quote of my post - not a very honest thing to do...

You selected one verse, separated it from the rest of the Bible, then used it to prove that Adam didn't choose to believe his wife over the Word of God.

In doing so, you have rejected and omitted dozens of Scriptures that define for you why all men Sin.

Num. 20: 11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. 12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

Mark 16: 14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Moses, nor the 11 Apostles were deceived. But like Adam, their works showed their unbelief, at least this is what the Scriptures teach, when you consider them all..
Believing in God is not just a matter of accepting facts about him; it is about trusting in and relying upon him.

If God tells a human being, "Don't eat this, because if you do you will die". Your works will show whether or not you trust Him. Without belief, there is no trust. Without belief, there is no "relying" on God.

As the Jesus "of the bible" teaches. "By their fruits you shall know them".

This is why all men are judged by their "Works".

James 2: 17 Even so faith (Belief), if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Adam was judged by his works and chastised by God. His Works proved his lack of belief.

I'm not going to erase these scriptures and dozens more, just to justify your understanding of a single verse from the Bible, you separated from the rest of the bible.

I never omitted the verse you spoke about, "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

This can also be interpreted as saying Adam did not transgress, but Eve was in the transgression. But only if you separate this verse from the rest of the Bible, can such a philosophy stand.

This practice of selecting a verse here or there, and separating it from the rest of the Bible to justify a doctrine or philosophy that could not stand if "Every Word of God" were considered is a popular tactic we are taught by this world's religions. The very first example of this practice was shown in the garden of Eden.

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, "hath God said", Ye shall not eat "of every tree" of the garden?

And if we go back, let's look at what God said.

Gen. 2: 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God "commanded the man", saying, Of "every tree" of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

And if I separated this verse from the rest of the Bible, it could be said that Adam and Eve were unjustly punished. And you would say that I "Omitted" this verse from the bible, and that this "was a dishonest thing to do".

But just as the use of this tactic here, when more of God's Words are considered, we find God's Truth.

In every example of rebellion, it is said to be the result of "Unbelief". I don't believe in your philosophy that Adam was the only exception to this rule, because there is nothing in Scriptures to support such a philosophy.

But we all have free will to believe as we wish.
 
Upvote 0

David1701

God is good!
Sep 28, 2020
395
181
Aberdeenshire
✟39,997.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
You selected one verse, separated it from the rest of the Bible, then used it to prove that Adam didn't choose to believe his wife over the Word of God.

In doing so, you have rejected and omitted dozens of Scriptures that define for you why all men Sin.

Num. 20: 11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. 12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

Mark 16: 14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Moses, nor the 11 Apostles were deceived. But like Adam, their works showed their unbelief, at least this is what the Scriptures teach, when you consider them all..


If God tells a human being, "Don't eat this, because if you do you will die". Your works will show whether or not you trust Him. Without belief, there is no trust. Without belief, there is no "relying" on God.

As the Jesus "of the bible" teaches. "By their fruits you shall know them".

This is why all men are judged by their "Works".

James 2: 17 Even so faith (Belief), if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Adam was judged by his works and chastised by God. His Works proved his lack of belief.

I'm not going to erase these scriptures and dozens more, just to justify your understanding of a single verse from the Bible, you separated from the rest of the bible.

I never omitted the verse you spoke about, "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

This can also be interpreted as saying Adam did not transgress, but Eve was in the transgression. But only if you separate this verse from the rest of the Bible, can such a philosophy stand.

This practice of selecting a verse here or there, and separating it from the rest of the Bible to justify a doctrine or philosophy that could not stand if "Every Word of God" were considered is a popular tactic we are taught by this world's religions. The very first example of this practice was shown in the garden of Eden.

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, "hath God said", Ye shall not eat "of every tree" of the garden?

And if we go back, let's look at what God said.

Gen. 2: 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God "commanded the man", saying, Of "every tree" of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

And if I separated this verse from the rest of the Bible, it could be said that Adam and Eve were unjustly punished. And you would say that I "Omitted" this verse from the bible, and that this "was a dishonest thing to do".

But just as the use of this tactic here, when more of God's Words are considered, we find God's Truth.

In every example of rebellion, it is said to be the result of "Unbelief". I don't believe in your philosophy that Adam was the only exception to this rule, because there is nothing in Scriptures to support such a philosophy.

But we all have free will to believe as we wish.
That one verse that I quoted shows clearly and unmistakably that Adam was not deceived. He did not believe the lie for which Eve had fallen, and to make that fact certain is one of the main purposes of that verse.

You cannot set the Bible against itself; and you will not get me to believe your deception, so you might as well give up now.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
3,078
810
67
Michigan
✟615,164.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That one verse that I quoted shows clearly and unmistakably that Adam was not deceived. He did not believe the lie for which Eve had fallen, and to make that fact certain is one of the main purposes of that verse.

You cannot set the Bible against itself; and you will not get me to believe your deception, so you might as well give up now.


No sir! What you have done is to single out one verse in the Entire Bible, separate it from the EVERY OTHER WORD inspired by God and given to us "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works", and then twisted it to deny the undeniable Biblical Truth that ALL Sin, Rebellion, disobedience, dishonor, disrespect for God, is founded in the lack of "BELIEF" in God, in God's Power, God's perfect wisdom, God's Sovereignty, God's Truth.

1 Timothy 2 has a message from Paul, but the message isn't to discard, omit and consider unworthy of your honor and respect, EVERY other inspired Word of God that explains for us the foundation of all transgression.

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

I agree with the Scriptures that the serpent went to the weaker vessel and deceived her, not Adam. Nevertheless Adam believed her, Not God. We know this because God said so. Was Adam deceived into unbelief in God, or did he choose of his own free will not to believe God?

Scriptures say he wasn't deceived. Nevertheless, he chose not to believe God. Then tried to hide himself from God, after He transgressed. How could Adam "believe" he could "hide from God" if he truly believed in God?

Now I know you will not consider any of these things, and that is fine. You are free to chose your own belief. I only said them for those who might be reading along because it seems like a great topic of discussion for those seeking God's Truth. But those who are only seeking justification for their adopted religious philosophy, they will most likely not be interested in an honest unbiased discussion.

I agree you can't pit the Bible against the bible, yet that is what you are doing. I'm not sure even why.

Nevertheless, thank you for the opportunity for the discussion such as it was.
 
Upvote 0