• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

When did the anti-Israel stance start from the right?

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
48,387
50,778
Los Angeles Area
✟1,130,687.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Reality: Iran did not resume 20 percent enrichment until after President Trump lost the 2020 presidential election.
There's nothing magical about 20%. Iran breached the 3.67% limit set by the JCPOA in 2019.

This article is chicanery and flim-flam.
 
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,952
8,439
Western New York
✟248,421.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Can you now show that the money (from either deal) was directly spent towards acquiring uranium and the equipment needed to process it for weapons-grade purity?
While the sanctions relief money was supposed to be spent on economic relief, there is no clear indication on how Iran spent the money.

Maybe they decided to sit on it till the agreement expired. After all, now they ARE building stockpiles of higher enriched uranium. Who knows.
 
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,952
8,439
Western New York
✟248,421.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It's not that complicated.

The US and the world is beating Iran with sticks.

They offer to stop beating Iran with sticks if Iran gives up its enriched uranium.

Iran gives up its enriched uranium. The US and the world stop beating Iran with sticks.

The US start beating Iran with sticks again.

Iran starts enriching uranium again. It only stopped because it thought it would not be beaten with sticks.
We are dealing with terrorists here, not schoolyard bullies.
 
Upvote 0

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
9,365
3,522
Pennsylvania, USA
✟1,074,894.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
42,399
17,286
Fort Smith
✟1,556,434.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Did not Iran get the benefits from the deal???
Did they not get their money?
Well, we've made some progress. You now acknowledge the money returned to them was in fact their money.
 
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,952
8,439
Western New York
✟248,421.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Well, we've made some progress. You now acknowledge the money returned to them was in fact their money.
I never said it wasn’t. I said it was being held as part of the sanctions that had been imposed on Iran. Obviously that makes it their money.
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
1,419
567
Kristianstad
✟43,241.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
What would be the purpose of pulling out of the deal except so they can create nuclear weapons?

It is only by sticking to the deal that they would be considered not a threat.They

It is their bargaining chip when discussing sanction relief.

Being one step away from having nuclear capabilities is itself a bargaining position. Japan is in this position right now (they have plutonium, and the industry required to build a nuclear device and deploy it within a year). Here in Sweden, the (only slightly) conspiratorial idea is that we leveraged that possibility to place ourselves under the US nuclear umbrella before development stopped and we signed the NPT. The conspiratorial part is if we actually were under the nuclear umbrella, we stopped developing nuclear weapons.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
1,419
567
Kristianstad
✟43,241.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
While the sanctions relief money was supposed to be spent on economic relief, there is no clear indication on how Iran spent the money.

Maybe they decided to sit on it till the agreement expired. After all, now they ARE building stockpiles of higher enriched uranium. Who knows.

This is a different statement than what started your and mine discussion.
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
1,419
567
Kristianstad
✟43,241.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Myth 6: “The IAEA repeatedly affirmed that it saw no violations of the deal by Iran prior to Trump’s withdrawal from the JCPOA.”

Reality: Iran blindfolded the IAEA by strictly limiting where it can inspect.


Iran’s violations of its obligations under both the JCPOA and the NPT are well documented. They include the assembly and concealment of the nuclear archive and the possession of undeclared, unexplained nuclear materials. Many of these violations have taken place in locations that Iran concealed from the IAEA, attempted to sanitize before inspection, or prevented the IAEA from inspecting altogether. The IAEA cannot document violations in places it cannot see or access.

Before, during, and after Iran’s “compliance” with the JCPOA, the IAEA reported that, because of Tehran’s refusal to cooperate regarding undeclared nuclear activities and materials, the agency cannot provide assurances that the Iranian nuclear program is peaceful.



Article is from 2022

I did read the article. Don't you see how the article don't actually show that myth 6 is a myth? IAEA for all that they could see, did not find that Iran was in breach of the conditions before Trump pulled out.

The first IAEA report after Trump pulled out of the deal:

A summary of the report can be found here:

Iran effectively left JCPOA in 2019, when they said that they would disregard limits on uranium and heavy water storage. They later stepped away from other conditions as well.

However, this was done after Trump pulling the US out and reinstating sanctions on Iran a year before.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
1,419
567
Kristianstad
✟43,241.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

Aussie52

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2018
426
209
73
Sydney
✟73,277.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Disturbing accounts are coming out of the treatment by the Israelis of the people on the flotilla that was headed for Gaza. I saw some of the people arriving at the airport on TV with bruised backs and swollen eyes where they were allegedly beaten by the Israelis. There is also a complaint by a woman of alleged rape.
For me, this is of great concern. I believe that the view that it was manufactured by the protesters is doubtful.
 
Upvote 0

Gene2memE

Newbie
Oct 22, 2013
4,931
7,658
✟374,569.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
All we targeted was their weapons facilities.

And political and military leadership and their homes and offices.

And universities.

And hospitals.

And a girls primary school.

And TV/radio/ internet infrastructure. And newspaper headquarters.

And Mosques. And Synagogues.

And sporting facilities.

And hotels.

And energy production/ storage infrastructure.

And desalination plants.

And residential districts.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Fantine
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,952
8,439
Western New York
✟248,421.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
This is a different statement than what started your and mine discussion.
There has been a lot of speculation that the money was used for military purposes because it was certainly not used for its intended purpose. Economic relief. The point is, though, they got what they wanted out of the deal, there was no reason to pull out of it.
 
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,952
8,439
Western New York
✟248,421.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
And political and military leadership and their homes and offices.

And universities.

And hospitals.

And a girls primary school.

And TV/radio/ internet infrastructure. And newspaper headquarters.

And Mosques. And Synagogues.

And sporting facilities.

And hotels.

And energy production/ storage infrastructure.

And desalination plants.

And residential districts.
CFR. Show me where we targeted hotels and schools and mosques and synagogues and hospitals.
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
1,419
567
Kristianstad
✟43,241.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
There has been a lot of speculation that the money was used for military purposes because it was certainly not used for its intended purpose. Economic relief. The point is, though, they got what they wanted out of the deal, there was no reason to pull out of it.
No, the US reinstated sanctions in 2018. The deal was ripped up by Trump.
 
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,952
8,439
Western New York
✟248,421.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No, the US reinstated sanctions in 2018. The deal was ripped up by Trump.
Iran received $101.7 Billion from the US under JCPOA and the other bank settlement under Obama. Trump put other sanctions in place, but they received the money under Obama.
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
1,419
567
Kristianstad
✟43,241.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Iran received $101.7 Billion from the US under JCPOA and the other bank settlement under Obama. Trump put other sanctions in place, but they received the money under Obama.
Still JCPOA was mainly about sanction relief. When Trump put the sanctions back, he ripped up the deal. No, Iran received 1.7 billion from the US (you could argue that the US had created that debt by their own actions). As I understand it the US took the money for delivering equipment to Iran, but did not deliver the goods or made a speedy reimbursement.


The 100 billion was Iran's. Sanction relief was not only about those money.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

lismore

Maranatha
Oct 28, 2004
21,184
4,772
Scotland
✟330,930.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I know not every conservative is a Christian but it’s still whiplash in many conservative forums where there’s a big anti Israel stance. Reading Fox News comments about Israel and its overwhelming negative forwards that nation. I’m Christian, go to church and the consensus I always “Israel is right, defend them always”. I'm A/G denomination if that helps. I don’t remember the vitriol towards them ever like this. I expected it from the left but never from the right. Are Christians simply in their own bubble and island at the moment?
Hello! Rising anti-Semitism is a sign of the End Times, but I believe so is the hypocrisy. The same folks who will hold protests and scream on loud speakers about Israel don't seem to be concerned about the genocide of Christians in Nigeria. It seems to be pure anti-Semitism. God Bless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A New Dawn
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,952
8,439
Western New York
✟248,421.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Still JCPOA was mainly about sanction relief. When Trump put the sanctions back, he ripped up the deal. No, Iran received 1.7 billion from the US (you could argue that the US had created that debt by their own actions). The 100 billion was Iran's. Sanction relief was not only about those money.
The $1.7 Billion Iran received was from a pre-1979 weapons deal that was ordered by the Shah but never fulfilled. The amount of that deal was $400M, the rest was interest on that money. That money was returned to guarantee the release of the hostages Iran was holding.

I did state (if you had read my post) that the money came from two sources, but it was all Iranian money. None of it (unless you count the interest) was US money.

And sanctions is what keeps terrorists from terroristing. Sad it has to come to that.
 
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,952
8,439
Western New York
✟248,421.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No, the US reinstated sanctions in 2018. The deal was ripped up by Trump.
The deal was a UN deal, with the rest of the 5 nation security council supporting it. The US can place sanctions on a country unilaterally, but there were other nations who in the EU that were still abiding by the deal till Iran pulled out.
 
Upvote 0