When did the anti-Israel stance start from the right?

Carl Emerson · May 20, 2026

Meowzltov said:
We are a TRIBE. It's probably a good idea to say it aloud: TRIBE. It helps for it to finally sink in. TRIBE.

Oh, it's more than that and you know it. It's because both Christianity and Islam want to replace Judaism. Our continued existence digs at some of the very assumptions Christians have. If God did indeed form a covenant with us and send us the prophets, then rationally you would expect us to be the first CONVERTS. But we are the opposite. We are the one ethnicity that is most resistant to conversion efforts. That's a problem. That's a very deep and very serious problem for Christians, and IMHO the root of a 2000 year hatred.

Very few Jews want this. Remember that the state of Israel HAS the Temple mount. Al Aqsa continues to exist only because Jews allow it to continue to exist.

Are you equally hateful of the first century Nazarenes who, under James, fully kept Jewish law including Temple sacrifices? Are you aware that the only reason that Paul was in the Temple in Acts 21 was to help some Nazarite Nazarenes complete their sacrifice for atonement?

I'd tackle your "Jesus is the sacrifice thing," but this is a Christian forum, and I am a guest. If you really want to know why, find a Jew and ask, and ask them somewhere that they feel free to answer.

Hi there, First off just to say I have had a deep love for Jewish folk and lived in Israel a while Many of by best friends have been Jews and we may have some Albanian Jewish decent.

The Tanakh records the promise of a Jewish Nation so it seems His intent was not just tribal identification.

You said "If God did indeed form a covenant with us and send us the prophets, then rationally you would expect us to be the first CONVERTS...."

And you were! beginning with Abraham 'the father of all who have faith'

It is interesting that the Abrahamic promises speak of 'many Nations' and this is true given the many in faith world wide.

There is good reason to believe there is a time to come when this Abrahamic and Christian faith will powerfully draw folks of Jewish decent to the Father of Abraham Isaac and Jacob en-masse once again.

"Are you equally hateful..." Really ??? I have loved Jews more than any other people group.

You can PM me any time for a free discussion without any restrictions.

Meowzltov · May 20, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
You said "If God did indeed form a covenant with us and send us the prophets, then rationally you would expect us to be the first CONVERTS...."

And you were! beginning with Abraham 'the father of all who have faith'

The context was pretty clearly conversion to Christianity, which didn't exist in the time of Abraham.

I like your suggestion to take this PM. I am a guest here, and feel somewhat constrained in what I will say since I don't want to be rude. I think we will both feel a little more free in PM. Let me see if I can figure out how to make it work.

A New Dawn · May 20, 2026

Meowzltov said:
Oh, it's more than that and you know it. It's because both Christianity and Islam want to replace Judaism. Our continued existence digs at some of the very assumptions Christians have. If God did indeed form a covenant with us and send us the prophets, then rationally you would expect us to be the first CONVERTS. But we are the opposite. We are the one ethnicity that is most resistant to conversion efforts. That's a problem. That's a very deep and very serious problem for Christians, and IMHO the root of a 2000 year hatred.

“Christianity” doesn’t want to replace Judaism. That’s a very inaccurate broad brush you are painting with. The “newer” Covenant Theology adherents tend to believe Israel’s contribution to the world has ended, but most dispensationalists believe there is still future prophecy that is yet to be fulfilled by Israel.

And it’s sad that you don’t seem to know the history of Christianity while leveling the accusation that the Jews should have been the first converts. (Emphasis on “should have been”.) Jesus, being a Jew, DID come to the Jews first. And many accepted Him. But many more (led by the Pharisees) rejected Him. Even on the day of Pentecost, which is when the church is considered to have started, it was at a gathering of Jewish disciples and followers. Throughout the New Testament, everything was taken to the Jews first and then to the gentiles. But from the beginning, God was clear that it was His plan to bless the world through Israel, not that only Israel would be blessed.

Meowzltov · May 20, 2026

A New Dawn said:
“Christianity” doesn’t want to replace Judaism. That’s a very inaccurate broad brush you are painting with. The “newer” Covenant Theology adherents tend to believe Israel’s contribution to the world has ended, but most dispensationalists believe there is still future prophecy that is yet to be fulfilled by Israel.

And it’s sad that you don’t seem to know the history of Christianity while leveling the accusation that the Jews should have been the first converts. (Emphasis on “should have been”.) Jesus, being a Jew, DID come to the Jews first. And many accepted Him. But many more (led by the Pharisees) rejected Him. Even on the day of Pentecost, which is when the church is considered to have started, it was at a gathering of Jewish disciples and followers. Throughout the New Testament, everything was taken to the Jews first and then to the gentiles. But from the beginning, God was clear that it was His plan to bless the world through Israel, not that only Israel would be blessed.

For almost all of its history, Christianity was supersessionist. I realize that when Christians looked at the holocaust and realized what the fruits of supersessionism were, that almost all denominations repudiated this replacement theology.

But I also know that you guy still hold on to a softer version of it. You articulate it every time you refer to a Christian Jew being a "completed"Jew, every time you refer to Christianity being the fulfillment of Judaism, as if Judaism isn't fulfilled without Jesus.

It may be a good idea for you to not assume I don't know Church history. I know a lot more of Church history than the average Christian.

There were millions of Jews in the Roman Empire. Most never gave Jesus a second thought. I know very well that there were a few thousand Jews who thought he was the messiah. But I'm not going to make a generalization about Jews based on less than 1%.

What are your own ideas why Jews are so resistant to conversion to Christianity? Note: saying "they are blinded" only begs the question.

A New Dawn · May 20, 2026

Meowzltov said:
For almost all of its history, Christianity was supersessionist. I realize that when Christians looked at the holocaust and realized what the fruits of supersessionism were, that almost all denominations repudiated this replacement theology.

But I also know that you guy still hold on to a softer version of it. You articulate it every time you refer to a Christian Jew being a "completed"Jew, every time you refer to Christianity being the fulfillment of Judaism, as if Judaism isn't fulfilled without Jesus.

It may be a good idea for you to not assume I don't know Church history. I know a lot more of Church history than the average Christian.

There were millions of Jews in the Roman Empire. Most never gave Jesus a second thought. I know very well that there were a few thousand Jews who thought he was the messiah. But I'm not going to make a generalization about Jews based on less than 1%.

What are your own ideas why Jews are so resistant to conversion to Christianity? Note: saying "they are blinded" only begs the question.

We are Christians. Christianity was built on the law and prophets, it is the ending of what God’s plan was for Israel. The Jews/Israel looked forward to the Messiah, we look to Christ as the Messiah who fulfilled all the prophecies. Our desire would be that ALL come to Christ. And it is our belief that that is part of the prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled. Jew and gentiles, alike.

Paul took the gospel to many places in the Roman Empire, first to the Jews at the synagogues, then to the gentiles, starting churches in those same cities. Part of the problem was that a synagogue couldn’t be built unless there were a certain number of Jewish families in the town, and so while there were many scattered Jews across the Roman Empire, there frequently wasn’t a synagogue and Paul would have to search them out.

I do not know why the Jews are so resistant to conversion, I’d guess it is because of the persecution they have endured for so long, but with Christ, all things are possible.

Meowzltov · May 20, 2026

A New Dawn said:
We are Christians. Christianity was built on the law and prophets, it is the ending of what God’s plan was for Israel.

See there you have it. Kinder, gentler supersessionism.

A New Dawn said:
The Jews/Israel looked forward to the Messiah, we look to Christ as the Messiah who fulfilled all the prophecies. Our desire would be that ALL come to Christ. And it is our belief that that is part of the prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled. Jew and gentiles, alike.

Yes, I'm aware. You guys truly believe you are the "One True Religion" and nothing else isi legitimate. We don't share that belief. Judaism is how JEWS love and serve God. We are perfectly fine with others doing it differently.

Is there a reason why "looked" was stated past tense? Or was this just a typo?

A New Dawn said:
I do not know why the Jews are so resistant to conversion, I’d guess it is because of the persecution they have endured for so long, but with Christ, all things are possible.

There are several components. The first is that Jesus simply didn't fulfill what the messiah is to do. See Isaiah 2:4. The second is that Christianity moves the emphasis from obedience to faith. But the REALLY big elephant in the room is Christianity's insistence that a man, Jesus, is God and should be worshiped. The Babylonian Captivity didn't just wipe idolatry forever from our Jewish hearts, it left a revulsion for it.

BTW: I am making the effort to stay within what I am allowed to say in here as a guest. But sometimes it becomes impossible to answer a question without saying things that I'm sure hit Christians rather hard the first time they hear it. If I'm going too far, just let me know. I can edit my posts, etc. I just need the boundaries to be clear.

Carl Emerson · May 20, 2026

Meowzltov said:
The context was pretty clearly conversion to Christianity, which didn't exist in the time of Abraham.

I like your suggestion to take this PM. I am a guest here, and feel somewhat constrained in what I will say since I don't want to be rude. I think we will both feel a little more free in PM. Let me see if I can figure out how to make it work.

Just click on my name, and an option to start a private conversation will appear.

Salvation was always by faith in the Creator and Father of us all.

A New Dawn · May 20, 2026

Meowzltov said:
See there you have it. Kinder, gentler supersessionism.

Yes, I'm aware. You guys truly believe you are the "One True Religion" and nothing else isi legitimate. We don't share that belief. Judaism is how JEWS love and serve God. We are perfectly fine with others doing it differently.

Is there a reason why "looked" was stated past tense? Or was this just a typo?

There are several components. The first is that Jesus simply didn't fulfill what the messiah is to do. See Isaiah 2:4. The second is that Christianity moves the emphasis from obedience to faith. But the REALLY big elephant in the room is Christianity's insistence that a man, Jesus, is God and should be worshiped. The Babylonian Captivity didn't just wipe idolatry forever from our Jewish hearts, it left a revulsion for it.

BTW: I am making the effort to stay within what I am allowed to say in here as a guest. But sometimes it becomes impossible to answer a question without saying things that I'm sure hit Christians rather hard the first time they hear it. If I'm going too far, just let me know. I can edit my posts, etc. I just need the boundaries to be clear.

From the beginning, it was never meant to be two religions, it was meant to be one that started with Israel and would grow to encompass the world. As I said, God’s plan was to bless the world through Israel.

Genesis 12:1-3 (NASB95) 1 Now the LORD said to Abram, “Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father’s house, To the land which I will show you; 2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; 3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”

When I came here to this board, I was of the Mormon persuasion. Back then we were allowed to debate. I’m sorry that they (the leadership here) chose to do away with all that.

When I said looked, I was thinking of the Old Testament people and prophets.

Meowzltov · May 21, 2026

A New Dawn said:
From the beginning, it was never meant to be two religions

Can you explain what you mean? I keep turning this around and around and still can't figure it out.

A New Dawn said:
, it was meant to be one that started with Israel and would grow to encompass the world. As I said, God’s plan was to bless the world through Israel.

Not by having everyone in the world become a Jew. It's not necessary. Judaism is the way that JEWS love and serve God. It's not "the one true religion." There's no need for someone who is Scottish or Chinese to fast on Yom Kippur. We don't export Judaism. We do export ethical monotheism--but you can express ethical monotheism as many different ways as there are people. So have a gazillion religions. It's fine in our view.

A New Dawn · May 21, 2026

Meowzltov said:
Can you explain what you mean? I keep turning this around and around and still can't figure it out.

Not by having everyone in the world become a Jew. It's not necessary. Judaism is the way that JEWS love and serve God. It's not "the one true religion." There's no need for someone who is Scottish or Chinese to fast on Yom Kippur. We don't export Judaism. We do export ethical monotheism--but you can express ethical monotheism as many different ways as there are people. So have a gazillion religions. It's fine in our view.

How do you know God’s mind?

And how do you worship him in today’s world when there is no temple and no sacrifices being offered? That was the way God set down for Israel to worship Him.

God created man and we bear His image because He wanted a people He could love and who would love Him. He said that several times throughout the Bible. “I will be their God and they will be my people.” But in Adam’s fall, the world changed and sin entered the world, men started delighting in themselves instead of God. Because of Adam’s fall, men could no longer seek God on their own. God had to make the first move and even when He reached down and did something miraculous for man, they forgot Him within a few generations and turned to other gods. That cycle appears throughout the OT even with Israel. That’s the basic story of the Old Testament. God appears to man and saves them over and over from everything under the sun because of sin being in the world. To finally have a people He could love who will love Him in return, God had to create a plan of salvation. A way He can turn the hearts of his people to himself permanently. And the Messiah was that person. The person who could fight and win the spiritual battle that we cannot win for ourselves because He was God, himself. That’s how God would bless the world through Israel. God chose Israel to be the people who would bring forth the Son of God.

It’s a spiritual battle that needed to be fought. Not a physical battle. Every time Israel needed to be freed from captivity, or to defend their homeland, God raised up a warrior to lead them to freedom. But a lot of the problems Israel faced were of their own doing. They, themselves turned away from God over and over again because the real battle that needed to be fought was a spiritual battle.

Can you explain what the Babylonian captivity has to do with Jesus, a Jew who came to save his own people? I am not understanding the connection. Thanks.

Fantine · May 22, 2026

I see parallels between israelis and Americans.

Both of our nations are hated and feared by many countries because our duly elected leaders are wreaking havoc in the world with their power-mad human rights violations and bellicosity.

My expat son jokes that people are putting Canadian patches on their backpacks in order to be liked...

A New Dawn · May 22, 2026

Fantine said:
I see parallels between israelis and Americans.

Both of our nations are hated and feared by many countries because our duly elected leaders are wreaking havoc in the world with their power-mad human rights violations and bellicosity.

My expat son jokes that people are putting Canadian patches on their backpacks in order to be liked...

Most people hate the US and Israel lately because Israel won’t let itself be destroyed, and we are their ally, and I support that. Neither Israel nor the US are wreaking havoc, they are doing, along with other Middle East countries, what all the world has said and thought since 1979, that Iran cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons because of their barbaric nature and their hatred of the west. And most of the people living in those countries that Iran is terrorizing (and in Iran, itself) are happy that someone is finally stepping in to bring some common sense and stability to the region. Most of the Middle east is already at peace, thanks to the Abraham Accords initiated by Trump in his first term, and more are looking to join the accords, it is Iran and their terrorist groups that are wreaking havoc, not the people defending the world from them.

Fantine · May 22, 2026

A New Dawn said:
Neither Israel nor the US are wreaking havoc, they are doing, along with other Middle East countries, what all the world has said and thought since 1979, that Iran cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons because of their barbaric nature and their hatred of the west. And most of the people living in those countries that Iran is terrorizing (and in Iran, itself) are happy that someone is finally stepping in to bring some common sense and stability to the region.

I find it almost as impossible to believe that people whose infrastructure and places of employment are bombed and who live under the threat of having their only source of potable water
Through desalinization destroyed are "thankful" to the destroyers.
Even more impossible and ridiculous is the idea that the current administration is bringing common sense and stability anywhere around the world. Are we talking about the same administration that has destroyed common sense and stability in our country and wreaked economic havoc throughout the world?

Obama's agreement with Iran was successful in the eyes of the entire free world. To our sorrow we are in much worse shape than we were.

A New Dawn · May 22, 2026

Fantine said:
I find it almost as impossible to believe that people whose infrastructure and places of employment are bombed and who live under the threat of having their only source of potable water
Through desalinization destroyed are "thankful" to the destroyers.
Even more impossible and ridiculous is the idea that the current administration is bringing common sense and stability anywhere around the world. Are we talking about the same administration that has destroyed common sense and stability in our country and wreaked economic havoc throughout the world?

Obama's agreement with Iran was successful in the eyes of the entire free world. To our sorrow we are in much worse shape than we were.

Obama’s “agreement” wasn’t successful in a myriad of ways. Obama obliterated the sanctions, which were the only things keeping Iran from being able to acquire and process uranium, and then gave them billions of dollars that they put directly towards acquiring uranium and the equipment needed to process it for weapons-grade purity.

Fantine · May 22, 2026

The $1.7 billion was money that had been frozen--returned to Iran because the US never delivered the planes the Shah had ordered ( presumably, because he had been overthrown before the planes could be delivered.)

essentialsaltes · May 22, 2026

A New Dawn said:
Obama’s “agreement” wasn’t successful in a myriad of ways. Obama obliterated the sanctions, which were the only things keeping Iran from being able to acquire and process uranium

Under the JCPOA, Iran transferred its medium-enriched uranium out of the country. And its enrichment was kept to levels only useful for peaceful uses.

A New Dawn · May 22, 2026

Fantine said:
The $1.7 billion was money that had been frozen--returned to Iran because the US never delivered the planes the Shah had ordered ( presumably, because he had been overthrown before the planes could be delivered.)

Again, it was being held as part of the sanctions.

A New Dawn · May 22, 2026

essentialsaltes said:
Under the JCPOA, Iran transferred its medium-enriched uranium out of the country. And its enrichment was kept to levels only useful for peaceful uses.

As of May, 2026 (this month), Iran has 440.9 kg of 60% enriched uranium. Enough to complete 10 nuclear weapons in 12 weeks time. They have cut off all camera and denied IAEA access for inspections, and they refuse to make a deal (so far) that includes no nuclear capability.

Doesn’t sound like someone who wants to play nice with his neighbors or the world.

essentialsaltes · May 22, 2026

A New Dawn said:
As of May, 2026 (this month), Iran has 440.9 kg of 60% enriched uranium.

They only started enriching after Trump tore up the agreement. If it was in place now, and adhered to it, as Trump's Administration verified it had been, they would have 0 kg of 60% enriched uranium.

A New Dawn said:
Enough to complete 10 nuclear weapons in 12 weeks time.

A nuclear weapon takes more than uranium. They do not have a weapon design.

A New Dawn said:
They have cut off all camera and denied IAEA access for inspections

Right, those were some of the benefits we derived from the JCPOA. When it was torn up, they had no obligation to comply.

A New Dawn said:
Doesn’t sound like someone who wants to play nice with his neighbors or the world.

Since we dropped bombs on them last year and this year, I guess I'm not surprised they aren't inclined to play nice.

Stopped_lurking · May 22, 2026

A New Dawn said:
Obama’s “agreement” wasn’t successful in a myriad of ways. Obama obliterated the sanctions, which were the only things keeping Iran from being able to acquire and process uranium, and then gave them billions of dollars that they put directly towards acquiring uranium and the equipment needed to process it for weapons-grade purity.

Do you have a reference for the bolded part, not the fact that they released Iran's money but the part where you claim they put it directly towards acquiring uranium and the equipment needed to process it for weapons-grade purity.

If I remember correctly from the report they actually reduced the number of centrifuges under JCPOA, quite substantially.

After Trump left JCPOA, all bets were off.

When did the anti-Israel stance start from the right?

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