The Unpardonable Sin

Studyman · May 19, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Because God evidenced Himself through creation way before the Law was given and in fact will judge mans response to this.

But not Adam and Eve. They didn't have any idea what God wanted, or God's eternal Law was, before God told them, "thou shall not".

How does this even address my post?

Carl Emerson said:
God doesn't need the Law to judge.

But mortal corruptible humans need God's Law to know the righteousness of God. "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

According to the Word of God, man is to be judged by their own works. Paul teaches we either "Yield ourselves" servants to obey Sin, or Servants to obey God's Righteousness. God's Righteousness is revealed through His Law. Just because you don't believe this, doesn't make it not true.

Faith is not possible without believe. This is undeniable truth. God revealed HIS Righteousness to them, through HIS LAW, "thou shall not". Like all men, Adam and Eve had the capacity to "Choose" who to believe. They chose not to believe God. Which we all do. But we can "change our mind", we can "be renewed in the spirit of our mind", we can "put on a new man", which believes God. That is Good News Yes? Now that Christ has wiped our slate clean, we are free to believe Him, and "go and sin no more".

That is the most important thing in a man's life.

Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is "the whole duty of man". For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

This Truth of God has been rejected by this world's religious system since the very first recorded sermon of a mainstream preacher, in the garden of Eden with Eve.

Carl Emerson · May 19, 2026

Studyman said:
But not Adam and Eve. They didn't have any idea what God wanted, or God's eternal Law was, before God told them, "thou shall not".

How does this even address my post?

But mortal corruptible humans need God's Law to know the righteousness of God. "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

According to the Word of God, man is to be judged by their own works. Paul teaches we either "Yield ourselves" servants to obey Sin, or Servants to obey God's Righteousness. God's Righteousness is revealed through His Law. Just because you don't believe this, doesn't make it not true.

Faith is not possible without believe. This is undeniable truth. God revealed HIS Righteousness to them, through HIS LAW, "thou shall not". Like all men, Adam and Eve had the capacity to "Choose" who to believe. They chose not to believe God. Which we all do. But we can "change our mind", we can "be renewed in the spirit of our mind", we can "put on a new man", which believes God. That is Good News Yes? Now that Christ has wiped our slate clean, we are free to believe Him, and "go and sin no more".

That is the most important thing in a man's life.

Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is "the whole duty of man". For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

This Truth of God has been rejected by this world's religious system since the very first recorded sermon of a mainstream preacher, in the garden of Eden with Eve.

I appreciate your fervent dialogue regarding the function of the law but you dismiss Romans 1 which clearly states He will judge without the Law.

Studyman · May 19, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
I appreciate your fervent dialogue regarding the function of the law but you dismiss Romans 1 which clearly states He will judge without the Law.

Where Carl, show me. God judges against SIN, YES? How can SIN exist without Law?

Rom. 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

What did God show them Carl? The definition of Sin, Yes? The definition of "Ungodliness" and "Unrighteousness", how are these defined, if not by God's Law?

Carl Emerson · May 20, 2026

Studyman said:
Where Carl, show me. God judges against SIN, YES? How can SIN exist without Law?

Rom. 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

What did God show them Carl? The definition of Sin, Yes? The definition of "Ungodliness" and "Unrighteousness", how are these defined, if not by God's Law?

Read on...

BelieveItOarKnot · May 20, 2026

Studyman said:
I am happy to discuss what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures though, in search of God's Truth.

Great. Let's get real.

Studyman said:
Who created the Tree of Good and Evil? Who placed it in the Garden? Who create a Law forbidding to eat from it? Who created Adam and Eve? Who created the serpent?

I am fine accepting the One and only True Answer to these questions?

God created all things including all powers and including the power of evil. Glad we agree.

Studyman said:
Yes, we are influenced by the "many" voices that surround us, "who profess to know God", to "believe" things about God that are not true. This belief, AKA, "Leaven", grows within us, and manifests itself through our "Works". Paul details this perfectly in Rom. 7.

Evil comes from within according to who? Oh, yeah, Jesus. Mark 7:21-23

Would you like to start denying His Words, there on that ground?

Claim personal exemptions?

Studyman said:
Paul also details for us the remedy for this affliction,

There is no "remedy" for the evil that comes from within. It's there and it's real and no, God doesn't take it away as long as we live. Jesus didn't give the evil within anyone a free pass nor did Jesus eradicate it from within anyone.

Studyman said:
but this world's religious system, the "other voice" in the garden,

The voice of the tempter is internal in case you missed the memo. Mark 4:15. Again, real.

Studyman said:
doesn't like to consider all of Paul's words, just his words they can wrest/twist to justify the philosophy or doctrines of a specific religious sect. It seem prudent to consider Paul's remedy for the affliction he has just detailed.

I am quite fond of Paul.

Studyman said:
Rom. 7: 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! "who shall deliver me" from the body of this death?

25 I "thank God" through "Jesus Christ our Lord". So then with "the mind" (from within) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh "the law of sin".

1 There is therefore now no condemnation "to them" which are in Christ Jesus, "who walk" not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For "the law of the Spirit of life" in Christ Jesus (What LAW was in Christ Jesus, will you deny that it was the LAW of God?)

hath made me free "from the law of sin and death".

Is this not the exact same thing the Spirit of the Same Christ said through Ezekiel?

You seem to be having a hard time differentiating yourself from the evil which is actually of the devil.

That's where the line of freedom is drawn. It doesn't mean the other bad actor quit his job.

Studyman said:
Ez. 18: 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Oh Wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death)

21 But "if the wicked" will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right ( with his mind, "Serve the Law of God"), he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: "in his righteousnes"s that "he hath done" he shall live. (There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, "who walk"not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We all die because of sin. No one dodges that bullet.

Studyman said:
Sadly, "Many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, have been beguiled by the "other voice" in the garden, to reject this truth of God, and their minds have become "corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ".

It's very strange you relegate the tempter to the garden when the tempter tempts internally. Are you having a hard time confessing to that fact? If not, let's hear it.

Does the tempter tempt you in mind or not?

Studyman said:
The part you are ignoring and omitting is the remedy Paul gave us to cure this eternal evil.

Paul excused the evil in no one including himself. I don't know where you got this idea that Jesus is some kind of talisman that cured you of having to engage internal evil or the tempter, as that never happened.

Studyman said:
But like Jesus said, men hide from much of the Light, the Word of God, to preserve and justify their internal evil. Jesus said it is because they love evil.

Glad you finally got around to admitting evil IS internal, just as Jesus said.

Now tell me why Jesus blesses and forgives your internal evil and provide me a hearty laugh.

Studyman said:
I have found in me the same capacity to love evil, but I want to do truth with all my heart. So I come to the Light, the Word of God, for the very purpose of exposing and making manifest the evil, the imaginations "and every high thing that exalteth itself "against the knowledge of God", and bringing into captivity "every thought" to the obedience of Christ;

Alrighty then. We're getting much closer to actual honesty. Very good.

You do see that the battle continues and it continues within?

Studyman said:
But this takes commitment, self denial, diligence and patient continuance in well doing. All "Works" that are despised and rejected by the "many" who come in Christ's Name". The Jesus "of the Bible" warns about this, for those seeking the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness.

Well, let's just jerk the slack out of this subject and say that no matter how good you might pretend you are, evil remains present within US. Jesus' hard fact of Mark 7:21-23 is and will remain a hard fact no matter how good we behave on the outside.

Your evil present is not and never was legally obedient. It never happened. Never will.

Studyman said:
Yes, we need to ask ourselves, "Why do we reject and despise so much of God's Word, to the point that we omit them from our mind and heart?" Jesus gives us the answer in John 3: 19-21.

Coming to Jesus with a WHOLE HEART includes the hard fact of evil present within us. Heb. 10:22

Studyman said:
Men are quick to accuse others, but not so quick to apply God's Word to themselves.

Here's my truthful confession. I have, present tense have sin. Evil does come from within in the form of evil lawless thoughts. And yes, my sin is in fact "of the devil." 1 John 3:8. Yes, I do engage the tempter internally, in mind.

Is this truthful enough for you?

Now tell me WHY you seem so intent to let the TEMPTER off the hook and try to drag the TEMPTER across the line with YOU?

BelieveItOarKnot · May 20, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Nothing could be further from the Truth.

Have a great day.

I understand you're trying to avoid the obvious. IF God is greater, then is God allowing evil to "TEST YOU" to see if you're worth saving? Might as well roll up your sleeves and answer why God allows evil. It's the richest topic in the Bible sphere, Theodicy.

Studyman · May 20, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Read on...

Rom. 1: 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Well Carl, this doesn't say God judges men apart from His Law.

Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Not here!

Rom. 2: 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned (Transgressed God's Law) without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned (Transgressed God's Law) in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Not here!

The entire bible teaches that SIN is "Transgression of God's Law". And that men are judged by God, for their sins. That is why God teaches to turn away from SIN, why Jesus says to repent "of your sins", which is, according to the Holy Spirit, "transgression of God's Law".

Now I appreciate that there is a voice somewhere that you have adopted, that has convinced you that somewhere in Romans 1, there is a secret sentence from Paul, where he makes the entire Bible void and irrelevant and untrue. That men are not judged according to their works, whether they be good (Lawful) or bad (Sinful)

That when Jesus said, "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (Sin, transgress God's Law) And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth, Paul made all this void and untrue by a sentence somewhere in Romans 1.

And I asked you to show me, but you haven't, choosing instead to play some sort of game. And why??? Because I wanted to discuss what happens when God gives a free will being, "Thou shall not"?

I get that it's always the other guy with the promoters of this world's religions. But shouldn't a person sometimes look in a mirror, and consider their own works?

Studyman · May 20, 2026

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Great. Let's get real.

God created all things including all powers and including the power of evil. Glad we agree.

Yes, God created the serpent, the garden, the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, and the LAW commanding not to eat from it.

And all this is "Good", in my understanding. And remember, I was replying to your judgment of me;

"God did not make evil so you could choose and therefore affirm your personal self worth and in that, validate your eternal reward. That kind of setup is commonly known as works salvation."

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Evil comes from within according to who? Oh, yeah, Jesus. Mark 7:21-23

Would you like to start denying His Words, there on that ground?

Of course not. The thought to reject God's Word, and adopt the words of another comes from within, and defiles us. The Holy Spirit, which inspired the Holy Scriptures, teaches men from the very beginning to rule over our thoughts? To bring them all into captivity, into the obedience of Christ, and to casting down any imagination "and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God".

Why would I deny the very foundation of my life?

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Claim personal exemptions?

I believe Paul in this. "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise". If I despise and reject God's Judgments, reject God's Statutes and create my own high days in worship of an image of God in the likeness of man, I will be judged by God the same way those who professed to know God in Jesus and Paul's time, but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

So no, I do not create for myself personal exemptions.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
There is no "remedy" for the evil that comes from within. It's there and it's real and no, God doesn't take it away as long as we live. Jesus didn't give the evil within anyone a free pass nor did Jesus eradicate it from within anyone.

You are free to adopt the voices of anyone you want, as Paul teaches, "that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey".

But for me, I believe all that is written in the Holy Scriptures.

Rom. 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Jesus also served the Law of God with His Mind. Paul teaches me; "Let this mind that was in Christ Jesus, be in me", just as Paul let the mind that was in Christ Jesus be in him.

That is the "Remedy" or the "Path way" that enables us for casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the Knowledge of God.

The entire bible teaches to seek God's Truth and His Righteousness, and then "Walking on them" as God instructs, when we find them.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
The voice of the tempter is internal in case you missed the memo. Mark 4:15. Again, real.

The tempter has a voice, (You shall surely not die). It's your choice to bring it into your heart, just as Eve did. God also has a voice, and it is also our choice whether or not we bring His Words into our heart.

"many" are not listening to the voice of God, other wise they would understand that the battle is to not let the voice of the tempter rule over us. But to "yield ourselves" to the Word of God instead, and let him guide our footsteps. That is the remedy Paul taught, to overcome the wretched man that I am, as I "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus".

Yes, there are other voices who try and convince me not to trust is this God and HIS Words, and yes, "Many" call Jesus Lord, Lord, and yes, "many" come in Christ's Name. But I have been warned about them, so I don't let their voice into my heart.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
I am quite fond of Paul.

You seem to be having a hard time differentiating yourself from the evil which is actually of the devil.

Some men must demean and discredit others in order to exalt themselves. Again, only by looking in a mirror can a person see himself.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
That's where the line of freedom is drawn. It doesn't mean the other bad actor quit his job.

Of course not. As the Jesus of the Bible teaches, "He who endures to the end, shall be saved".

BelieveItOarKnot said:
We all die because of sin. No one dodges that bullet.

It's very strange you relegate the tempter to the garden when the tempter tempts internally. Are you having a hard time confessing to that fact? If not, let's hear it.

Again, from the very beginning, it is whose voice we choose to bring into our hearts that we live by, that determines our fate. God sets before us, the two voices, and we must choose between them. The voice we choose to bring into our hearts, is the internal voice that either enlightens us, or defiles us. Nothing from without our hearts can do this.

Men can hear the voice of the tempter, but not let the voice into our hearts. Jesus proved this in Matt. 4. Men can also hear God's voice, and not let His voice into their heart. (See the Bible) And look around you.

My point from the very beginning, is that the very first "thou shall not" given by God, made manifest all this undeniable truth.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Does the tempter tempt you in mind or not?

It is right now. But I have the Armor of God on, and the Sword of the Lord, the Holy Scriptures. So I will be able to resist the tempter.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Paul excused the evil in no one including himself. I don't know where you got this idea that Jesus is some kind of talisman that cured you of having to engage internal evil or the tempter, as that never happened.

I have never said, suggested or implied any such thing. This behavior you are demonstrating is called "Tale Bearing". The rest of your post is nothing but tale bearing regarding your judgment of my post. It's a Sin.

The remedy for the wretched state I find myself in, is to stop serving the religions of this world, and serving the Law of God instead, letting Him direct my life. Only then am I able to overcome in this world.

Your entire post is nothing more than you exalting yourself at my expense, and justifying your adopted religion. There is no seeking God's Righteousness or truth or even a discussion. Just you preaching your own words.

Why would I "listen" to the words of such a one?

I wont.

David1701 · May 20, 2026

Studyman said:
I think there is only 1 definition of free will promoted in Scriptures, but I do agree with you, that in this world's religious system, there are many differing doctrines and definitions promoted, depending on which religious sect is promoting them.

According to the Scriptures, "free will" as given to Adam and Eve, in my understanding, is the ability to "Believe" something that is true, and also "Believe" something that isn't true. This is what separates humans from animals, in my experience.

Your definition of "free will" is certainly unique...

Do you limit your definition to what one believes (and based on which scriptures?), or does this alleged freedom extend to actions?

Do you believe that man's will is free from his nature and desires, or is it that which attempts to bring the strongest desire to reality?

In the Garden, there was the voice of all truth, and there was the voice of the father of lies. Adam and Eve had been given the capacity to "Choose" which voice to "believe". And this, in my understanding, to teach us in the way that we should go, as Paul teaches, so we wouldn't make the same free will choice Adam and Eve made, Cain made, Sodom made, the wicked Kings of Israel made, the choices those who fell in the wilderness made.

Adam sinned, which plunged the whole of humanity into slavery to sin. It takes the grace of God to lift us out of that slavery.

And I "Believe" this "because" it is written in the Holy Scriptures God Himself inspired, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

And Paul also says, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

Clearly indicating that men have the capacity resist the wiles of the devil, as well as the capacity to succumb to the wiles of the devil. "Free Will".

Those scriptures were written to Christians, not to unbelievers.

You imply in your post that my understanding of where evil came from, is a "moral evil". And certainly there is within me the capacity to "believe" a moral evil.

But it would be great if you would just address what happened when God gave to Adam and Eve, the first, "Thou shall not". "
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die".

So wouldn't you then agree that to "Believe God" and "not eat" is Good? But to NOT believe God, "and eat" was Evil?

Of course it was evil to disbelieve God and disobey his command.

And didn't God confirm this very thing to Abraham's Children?

Deut. 30: 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

How is this not the exact same thing God set before Adam and Eve?

16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

That was under law. Christians are not under law, but under grace.

How is this not the exact same thing God gave to Adam and Eve? And where are they my friend? Are they not returned to the earth, waiting for the return of their Savior?

God gave grace to Adam and Eve, in spite of their transgression.

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore "choose life", that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

How can men imply or suggest that this is not God's Truth, or that it is not "Good" that men have been given a choice to, as Paul teaches, yield yourselves servants to obey, God's voice, or the other voice in the garden God placed us in.

You seem to like quoting the law; but, where is grace, in your scheme? Salvation is not by works of the law, but by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

The tree God Created, and planted in the Garden. In your religion, was that not also "Good"?

It was very good.

Yes, there are voices in the world God placed us in that promote all manner of doctrines, philosophies and gospels. Including the philosophy that humans do not have the capacity to refuse the evil and choose the good. But according to the Holy Scriptures, the is One human who did just that. And HE is the Author and Finisher of my Faith, and Noah's, and Abraham's, and Caleb's, and Daniel's, and Shadrach's, and Zacharias, and Simeon, and James, and Paul, and Matthew, and Peter, as we are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses. As it is also written:

Heb. 12: 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that "is set before us",

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The Lord Jesus Christ is not only man - he is God manifest in the flesh; he is Emmanuel (God with us); he is the great "I AM" (c.f. John 8:58), etc..

So it is true that there are many other voices in the garden God placed me in, who profess to know God, who try to discourage men from "Believing" God's Word, and choose instead to "Believe" the many different doctrines, philosophies and teachings of this world's religious system instead. But I advocate that a man turn away from the "course of this world", and "Yield ourselves" to God, to Love Him, to walk in His Ways, like Jesus did.

The exhortation is valid; but, your posts have not, thus far, revealed any acquaintance with salvation by grace through faith, only law-keeping, by which no-one will be saved, for, by the law is the knowledge of sin; it is the ministry of damnation, not of salvation.

Of our own free will.

Sinful man's will is in bondage to sin and needs to be freed by the grace (unmerited favour) of God, when God makes a person born again, having heard the gospel.

Studyman · May 20, 2026

David1701 said:
Your definition of "free will" is certainly unique...

I understand that for sure. When I was young, I was taught and came to believe that there was a fat man with a red suite and white beard that somehow sneaked into our house through the stove pipe of our old fuel oil furnace and put presents around a pine tree we had decorated. As the years went by I started hearing a different perspective, concerning how those presents got there. The first time I was exposed to that perspective, it was certainly "unique" to me. It seems any perspective that challenges something we have come to believe, would be "Unique" the first time we heard it.

As it turned out, the unique perspective I encountered concerning the red suited fat man, was TRUE. While the belief I held so strongly was proven NOT TRUE.

I can imagine the perspective of the Prophets was very unique to those who had adopted the religious traditions and philosophy of the wicked Kings of Israel. Most certainly God's Word was unique to the Children of Israel in Egypt. No doubt God's instruction to Abram was unique to him. And Most certainly Jesus' perspective of the Law and Prophets were unique to the Jews when they heard HIM the first time.

When I studied the Bible for myself seeking God's truth regarding "free will", the perspective of the Words inspired by God in the Holy Scriptures, was most certainly unique to me, compared to what I was taught by this world's religions and had come to believe.

David1701 said:
Do you limit your definition to what one believes (and based on which scriptures?), or does this alleged freedom extend to actions?

It seems that our works/actions are founded in what we have chosen to believe. For instance, I have been taught that Nightshade is a poisonous plant that can kill me if I eat it. I have chosen to believe this, and therefore in my 67 years of life, although I have eaten many plants, I have never eaten Nightshade. My works/actions reflect the belief in my heart.

Jesus' works/actions reflected the belief in His Heart. Abraham's works/actions reflect the belief in his heart. The Pharisees works/actions reflect the belief in their hearts. Zacharias and Simeon's works/actions reflect the belief in their heart.

The Jesus "of the Bible" teaches me;

Matt. 7: 24 Therefore whosoever "heareth these sayings of mine", and "doeth them", I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one "that heareth these sayings of mine", and "doeth them not", shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

I find a lot of people, including me in times past, calling the Word of God, the Holy One of Israel who became flesh and blood in the person of Jesus "Lord, Lord", and preaching in His Name etc. But when it comes to denying the flesh and becoming a "doer of His Sayings", there isn't a lot of that around.

In fact it is taught against, as trying to do "works" in order to be accepted of Him.

No different than the mainstream preacher of Eve's time, promoted to her.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Reject God's Law) "then" your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

David1701 said:
Do you believe that man's will is free from his nature and desires, or is it that which attempts to bring the strongest desire to reality?

I believe what is written in Scriptures, that God's People are in a battle against imaginations and everything that exalted itself against the knowledge of God. And that we are tasked to bring into captivity "Every Thought" to the obedience of Christ. So as I said, I am free to believe Paul here, and engage in the battle, or I am free to believe all the "other voices" in the world God placed me in, and not believe Paul, and not engage in this battle.

According to what is written, my belief, AKA, "Faith", will be tested, which is most precious to God. If I choose to believe Him, I will follow His instruction over the religious voices, philosophies and traditions of this world's religious system that surround us.

Eph. 6: 10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 "Put on" the whole armour "of God", that ye may be able "to stand against the wiles of the devil".

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (This would be the imaginations and thoughts that come into our mind, where the Temple of God is, Yes?)

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

This is important stuff to me, as I believe it.

David1701 said:
Adam sinned, which plunged the whole of humanity into slavery to sin. It takes the grace of God to lift us out of that slavery.

That is a popular religious philosophy that I too, was taught, and believed in my youth. But when I read the Holy Scriptures, I find another perspective, one I considered unique when I first heart it.

Duet. 16: 16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: "every man" shall be put to death "for his own sin".

Ez. 18: 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (I believe this is the LAW of God that Moses gave)

21 But "if the wicked" will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and "do that" which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done "he shall live". (And this is the Truth and Grace that Christ gave)

So in my understand, this is the SAME Word of God, the Rock of Israel, who became flesh. And I have chosen to believe Him, over the popular religious philosophies and traditions promoted by this world's religious system. The issue you will have to deal with, is will you continue believing that men are a slave to Adam's sin and not their own, as the Word of God clearly states. Or will you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and choose to believe the Word of God over popular religious philosophy, and believe what is actually written in Scriptures. And what you "do" is a direct reflection of the belief that is in your heart.

This is why men are judged by their own Deeds, and not the Deeds of others.

David1701 said:
Those scriptures were written to Christians, not to unbelievers.

I don't believe in this religious philosophy although it is popular, that the Holy Scriptures, the Word of God, was only written to whatever this worlds definition of Christian is. The reason I don't believe this, is because of Jesus' Words Himself.

Luke 5: 31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

David1701 said:
Of course it was evil to disbelieve God and disobey his command.

My point is that by virtue of the LAW, Good and evil were defined by God and revealed to men. If they didn't have free will, there was no need to define for them what good and evil is. And if there is no LAW, then there is nothing defining God's definition of Good and Evil to men.

But clearly in the Holy Scriptures, the righteousness of God is revealed, and also the wrath of God against the unrighteousness of men is revealed. If a man doesn't have a choice, or free will, then there is no need for God to reveal to them what is righteous and what is not righteous.

Rom. 1: 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, (Within the Gospel of Christ) The just shall live by faith. (Hab. 2:4, Law and Prophets) 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

So it is simple really. If a man is seeking God's Truth, His Kingdom and His Righteousness from the heart, God will lead this man His Truth. But if a man is only interested in seeking justification for the traditions, philosophies and doctrines of the many differing religious sects that exist in the world God placed us in, then HE will give us over to those lusts as well.

2 Thess. 2: 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who "believed not" the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

There is no sense in addressing the rest of your post, until we can work out the differences in beliefs thus far. I am happy to seek and discuss God's Truth concerning what we have gone of so far.

Carl Emerson · May 20, 2026

Studyman said:
Rom. 1: 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Well Carl, this doesn't say God judges men apart from His Law.

Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Not here!

Rom. 2: 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned (Transgressed God's Law) without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned (Transgressed God's Law) in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Not here!

The entire bible teaches that SIN is "Transgression of God's Law". And that men are judged by God, for their sins. That is why God teaches to turn away from SIN, why Jesus says to repent "of your sins", which is, according to the Holy Spirit, "transgression of God's Law".

Now I appreciate that there is a voice somewhere that you have adopted, that has convinced you that somewhere in Romans 1, there is a secret sentence from Paul, where he makes the entire Bible void and irrelevant and untrue. That men are not judged according to their works, whether they be good (Lawful) or bad (Sinful)

That when Jesus said, "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (Sin, transgress God's Law) And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth, Paul made all this void and untrue by a sentence somewhere in Romans 1.

And I asked you to show me, but you haven't, choosing instead to play some sort of game. And why??? Because I wanted to discuss what happens when God gives a free will being, "Thou shall not"?

I get that it's always the other guy with the promoters of this world's religions. But shouldn't a person sometimes look in a mirror, and consider their own works?

Whoops sorry - I should have said 'read prior'

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Studyman · May 20, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Whoops sorry - I should have said 'read prior'

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Well that explains why I did see it, it doesn't say what someone has convinced you it says.

"Romans 1 which clearly states "He will judge without the Law."

But Romans 1 isn't about the future at all. It's about the Law and Prophets, the "Gospel of Christ" "where the righteousness of God is revealed and the wrath of God is revealed "from heaven" (Spirit of God) against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Here, I will just use the very first example of the wrath of God revealed from heaven against the ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who "suppressed God's Truth" in unrighteousness, to show that Paul is explaining what happened in times past. Let's look at the very first revelation of God's Wrath.

Gen. 3: 17 Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Here is a perfect example of Paul's teaching, of that which was known of God, that was evident within them from the very creation. The Oceans and the animals God made, the earth and the stars and the moons that God made, showing His invisible attributes, His eternal Power and divine nature, having been clearly seen by Adam and Eve, because God had showed it to them, being understood through that which was made.

But why was there a Wrath of God here? You can read it for yourself, and you have the free will capacity to believe it, if you choose to believe. But you can choose not to believe it as well, and cling to your belief that somehow God didn't judge these folks with His Law.

God tells us exactly "Why" He was angry, " Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it"

Paul is speaking about the past, the creation, not the future in Rom. 1. And God's wrath was revealed, clearly "because" Adam didn't obey HIS LAW. And God judged Adam and punished Adam "BY" His Law, which to transgress is to SIN. The same judgment HE used against the men of Noah's Time, and Sodom, and Egypt, and the rebellious children of Israel. The Same Law Paul teaches to not only hear, as all these men heard, but to become "Doers" of His Law, so as to be justified.

Paul even explains why they transgressed.

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not "as God", neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Don't get angry Carl or just ignore these things, let's talk about this, discuss it. Show me where my understanding is in error. Show me where Paul is promoting a Judgment of God that is without His Law?

And if you can't, then shouldn't you be renewed in your mind?

Carl Emerson · May 20, 2026

Studyman said:
Well that explains why I did see it, it doesn't say what someone has convinced you it says.

But Romans 1 isn't about the future at all. It's about the Law and Prophets, the "Gospel of Christ" "where the righteousness of God is revealed and the wrath of God is revealed "from heaven" (Spirit of God) against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Here, I will just use the very first example of the wrath of God revealed from heaven against the ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who "suppressed God's Truth" in unrighteousness, to show that Paul is explaining what happened in times past. Let's look at the very first revelation of God's Wrath.

Gen. 3: 17 Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Here is a perfect example of Paul's teaching, of that which was known of God, that was evident within them from the very creation. The Oceans and the animals God made, the earth and the stars and the moons that God made, showing His invisible attributes, His eternal Power and divine nature, having been clearly seen by Adam and Eve, because God had showed it to them, being understood through that which was made.

But why was there a Wrath of God here? You can read it for yourself, and you have the free will capacity to believe it, if you choose to believe. But you can choose not to believe it as well, and cling to your belief that somehow God didn't judge these folks with His Law.

God tells us exactly "Why" He was angry, " Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it"

Paul is speaking about the past, the creation, not the future in Rom. 1. And God's wrath was revealed, clearly "because" Adam didn't obey HIS LAW. And God judged Adam and punished Adam "BY" His Law, which to transgress is to SIN. The same judgment HE used against the men of Noah's Time, and Sodom, and Egypt, and the rebellious children of Israel. The Same Law Paul teaches to not only hear, as all these men heard, but to become "Doers" of His Law, so as to be justified.

Paul even explains why they transgressed.

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not "as God", neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Don't get angry Carl or just ignore these things, let's talk about this, discuss it. Show me where my understanding is in error. Show me where Paul is promoting a Judgment of God that is without His Law?

And if you can't, then shouldn't you be renewed in your mind?

I am not known to get angry - where did that accusation come from ?

300 languages in PNG are still to be translated - how will God judge such individuals separated from the gospel? - By the witness of God through His fingerprint on creation as Romans 1 says.
How else can He judge them ?

I can only put the case from Scripture and leave it for Him to convince you.

Studyman · May 21, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
I am not known to get angry - where did that accusation come from ?

300 languages in PNG are still to be translated - how will God judge such individuals separated from the gospel? - By the witness of God through His fingerprint on creation as Romans 1 says.
How else can He judge them ?

I can only put the case from Scripture and leave it for Him to convince you.

But you are not putting the case through scriptures.

We are taught by this world's religious system to adopt it's religious views, which are different depending on the name above the door of their man-made shrine of worship, to adopt their religious philosophy, then search scripture's for a verse that can be wrested to support it.

In Romans 1, Paul is speaking about men who have been shown the Gospel, where the righteousness of God and the wrath of God "against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" has been shown to them. He even quoted the Law and Prophets, "The Just shall Live by Faith".

You have listened to someone who convinced you, concerning how God judges men who never heard the Gospel, who have never known God. Paul doesn't address this issue even 1 time in all of Romans except perhaps one place in Romans 2.

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but "the doers of the law" shall be justified. (Both Jew and Gentile)

Is there a discussion to be had regarding Pagans who had never heard about God or SIN or His Gospel? Absolutely. But Paul isn't addressing that issue at all, anywhere in Romans.

And Frankly, even the topic is nothing more that a distraction, because we have all heard the Word of God. And how God deals with human beings that never heard about Him has nothing to do with us "Yielding ourselves" servants to obey God, or living by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God, as Paul and Jesus both instruct.

I was hoping for a discussion about the Truth concerning why God gave Adam and Eve LAW in the first place, and what the fact that HE did, means for those seeking God's Truth concerning free will and Sin.

But it's very hard to have a conversation with men that are so interested in justifying a currently held belief. I can only hope, then when there isn't anyone around, in a place where admitting an error won't cause public embarrassment and bruise the pride, perhaps mayby someone might consider why Adam and Eve were given the choice to fall in the first place.

David1701 · May 21, 2026

Studyman said:
I understand that for sure. When I was young, I was taught and came to believe that there was a fat man with a red suite and white beard that somehow sneaked into our house through the stove pipe of our old fuel oil furnace and put presents around a pine tree we had decorated. As the years went by I started hearing a different perspective, concerning how those presents got there. The first time I was exposed to that perspective, it was certainly "unique" to me. It seems any perspective that challenges something we have come to believe, would be "Unique" the first time we heard it.

As it turned out, the unique perspective I encountered concerning the red suited fat man, was TRUE. While the belief I held so strongly was proven NOT TRUE.

None of which is scriptural evidence...

I can imagine the perspective of the Prophets was very unique to those who had adopted the religious traditions and philosophy of the wicked Kings of Israel. Most certainly God's Word was unique to the Children of Israel in Egypt. No doubt God's instruction to Abram was unique to him. And Most certainly Jesus' perspective of the Law and Prophets were unique to the Jews when they heard HIM the first time.

When I studied the Bible for myself seeking God's truth regarding "free will", the perspective of the Words inspired by God in the Holy Scriptures, was most certainly unique to me, compared to what I was taught by this world's religions and had come to believe.

None of which is scriptural evidence.

It seems that our works/actions are founded in what we have chosen to believe. For instance, I have been taught that Nightshade is a poisonous plant that can kill me if I eat it. I have chosen to believe this, and therefore in my 67 years of life, although I have eaten many plants, I have never eaten Nightshade. My works/actions reflect the belief in my heart.

Jesus' works/actions reflected the belief in His Heart. Abraham's works/actions reflect the belief in his heart. The Pharisees works/actions reflect the belief in their hearts. Zacharias and Simeon's works/actions reflect the belief in their heart.

And yet, when Adam sinned, it was not because he believed Satan's lies, but because he rebelled against what he knew to be true.

The Jesus "of the Bible" teaches me;

Matt. 7: 24 Therefore whosoever "heareth these sayings of mine", and "doeth them", I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one "that heareth these sayings of mine", and "doeth them not", shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

I find a lot of people, including me in times past, calling the Word of God, the Holy One of Israel who became flesh and blood in the person of Jesus "Lord, Lord", and preaching in His Name etc. But when it comes to denying the flesh and becoming a "doer of His Sayings", there isn't a lot of that around.

Sadly true.

In fact it is taught against, as trying to do "works" in order to be accepted of Him.

Genuine faith in Jesus Christ results in good works, but we don't do them to be accepted; rather, we do them because we have been accepted.

No different than the mainstream preacher of Eve's time, promoted to her.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Reject God's Law) "then" your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Satan was not a "mainstream preacher"!

I believe what is written in Scriptures, that God's People are in a battle against imaginations and everything that exalted itself against the knowledge of God. And that we are tasked to bring into captivity "Every Thought" to the obedience of Christ. So as I said, I am free to believe Paul here, and engage in the battle, or I am free to believe all the "other voices" in the world God placed me in, and not believe Paul, and not engage in this battle.

You claim this freedom to believe the truth or lies, but where is your scriptural evidence? The Bible states that faith is a gift from God that not everyone has.

According to what is written, my belief, AKA, "Faith", will be tested, which is most precious to God. If I choose to believe Him, I will follow His instruction over the religious voices, philosophies and traditions of this world's religious system that surround us.

The Bible never says that belief in Jesus Christ is a result of sinful man's will. It does state that faith is a gift from God.

Eph. 6: 10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 "Put on" the whole armour "of God", that ye may be able "to stand against the wiles of the devil".

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (This would be the imaginations and thoughts that come into our mind, where the Temple of God is, Yes?)

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

This is important stuff to me, as I believe it.

The scripture is true, of course; but, it is our bodies that are the temple of God, not just our mind.

That is a popular religious philosophy that I too, was taught, and believed in my youth. But when I read the Holy Scriptures, I find another perspective, one I considered unique when I first heart it.

Duet. 16: 16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: "every man" shall be put to death "for his own sin".

Ez. 18: 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (I believe this is the LAW of God that Moses gave)

21 But "if the wicked" will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and "do that" which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done "he shall live". (And this is the Truth and Grace that Christ gave)

As the Bible states, the law is not of faith; but, salvation is by grace (unmerited favour) through faith in Jesus Christ. Ez. 18:20,21 is law, not gospel.

So in my understand, this is the SAME Word of God, the Rock of Israel, who became flesh. And I have chosen to believe Him, over the popular religious philosophies and traditions promoted by this world's religious system. The issue you will have to deal with, is will you continue believing that men are a slave to Adam's sin and not their own, as the Word of God clearly states. Or will you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and choose to believe the Word of God over popular religious philosophy, and believe what is actually written in Scriptures. And what you "do" is a direct reflection of the belief that is in your heart.

This is why men are judged by their own Deeds, and not the Deeds of others.

Men are slaves to sin, because Adam sinned and brought all his descendants down with him. We sin because he sinned and we inherit his sinful nature, which is only removed when we are born again (although, even then, in our flesh there is nothing good; hence the constant battle between our flesh and spirit).

Rom. 5:12 (E.M.T.V.) Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death passed to all men, because all sinned—

Rom. 8:10 (W.E.B.) If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

I don't believe in this religious philosophy although it is popular, that the Holy Scriptures, the Word of God, was only written to whatever this worlds definition of Christian is. The reason I don't believe this, is because of Jesus' Words Himself.

Luke 5: 31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

There are different audiences in different parts of the Bible. Rev. 3:20, for example, was written specifically to a Christian assembly.

My point is that by virtue of the LAW, Good and evil were defined by God and revealed to men. If they didn't have free will, there was no need to define for them what good and evil is. And if there is no LAW, then there is nothing defining God's definition of Good and Evil to men.

It's possible that Adam and Eve, before they sinned, had free will; although the Bible is silent on this issue; however, it is not silent on the condition of men's hearts after that (before being saved).

Eph. 2:3 (W.E.B.) among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Rom. 8:6-9
6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace;
7 because the mind of the flesh is hostile towards God; for it is not subject to God’s law, neither indeed can it be.
8 Those who are in the flesh can’t please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.

But clearly in the Holy Scriptures, the righteousness of God is revealed, and also the wrath of God against the unrighteousness of men is revealed. If a man doesn't have a choice, or free will, then there is no need for God to reveal to them what is righteous and what is not righteous.

Rom. 1: 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, (Within the Gospel of Christ) The just shall live by faith. (Hab. 2:4, Law and Prophets) 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Having a choice is not the same thing as having a free will. Everyone has choices; and we all make choices every day; but, the sinner is in bondage to sin; he is hostile towards God and cannot please him; and he hates the light and will not come to it. It takes the effectual grace of God to remove man from that condition.

So it is simple really. If a man is seeking God's Truth, His Kingdom and His Righteousness from the heart, God will lead this man His Truth. But if a man is only interested in seeking justification for the traditions, philosophies and doctrines of the many differing religious sects that exist in the world God placed us in, then HE will give us over to those lusts as well.

2 Thess. 2: 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who "believed not" the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

There is no sense in addressing the rest of your post, until we can work out the differences in beliefs thus far. I am happy to seek and discuss God's Truth concerning what we have gone of so far.

The natural man does not seek God's truth or his righteousness. It is evidence of a work of the Sovereign Lord in a man's heart if he does this, not an evidence of a fictitious "free will".

Carl Emerson · May 21, 2026

Studyman said:
But you are not putting the case through scriptures.

I just did - Romans 1...

So you have the real truth, but others have learned religious lies from others...

Did you get given it as a gift - was it a download from heaven?

Or was it gained by years of studious work alone with no assistaance?

How did you gain this non religious Truth - not mediated from man?

There's the catch - if it can't be learned from man - why are you trying in vain to pass it on ?

Were you selected from among men to understand? Are you a prophet?

State the source of your exclusive Truth please and how you received it.

BelieveItOarKnot · May 21, 2026

Studyman said:
Yes, God created the serpent, the garden, the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, and the LAW commanding not to eat from it.

And all this is "Good", in my understanding.

Evil and the tempter are not good in and of themselves. With God in any picture, ALL is good, and not because of any individual component thereof, in the picture. Matt. 19:17

Studyman said:
And remember, I was replying to your judgment of me;

I have no judgment against any person

Studyman said:
Of course not. The thought to reject God's Word, and adopt the words of another comes from within, and defiles us.

Brilliant deduction. And unavoidable. It's not "optional."

Studyman said:
The Holy Spirit, which inspired the Holy Scriptures, teaches men from the very beginning to rule over our thoughts?

Defiling thoughts are there to rule over. General point.

Studyman said:
To bring them all into captivity, into the obedience of Christ, and to casting down any imagination "and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God".

Why would I deny the very foundation of my life?

Why would you provide excuses for defiling thoughts is more of the question at hand. Why let them turn you into a liar, claiming you have none to rule over?

Studyman said:
I believe Paul in this. "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise". If I despise and reject God's Judgments, reject God's Statutes and create my own high days in worship of an image of God in the likeness of man, I will be judged by God the same way those who professed to know God in Jesus and Paul's time, but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

So no, I do not create for myself personal exemptions.

There is no blessing the evil in any persons by any measures of obedience or performances.

The evil in everyone remains utterly condemned at all times and in all places.

Studyman said:
You are free to adopt the voices of anyone you want, as Paul teaches, "that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey".

You are welcome to try to bless your defiling thoughts. Pardon me for not buying that fabrication, cough cough

Studyman said:
But for me, I believe all that is written in the Holy Scriptures.

You are not the only one in the picture. We all engage the adversary, INternally.

Studyman said:
Jesus also served the Law of God with His Mind.

Jesus was the embodiment of the Law in sinless flesh.

Studyman said:
Paul teaches me; "Let this mind that was in Christ Jesus, be in me", just as Paul let the mind that was in Christ Jesus be in him.

Do you think Jesus had defiling thoughts? Might as well get this one out of the way.

Studyman said:
That is the "Remedy" or the "Path way" that enables us for casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the Knowledge of God.

There is no remedy for the evil present within us all. Zero. We all have defiling thoughts. Even in reigning over they remain what they are, defiling. There's no legitimately dodging this fact without falling into deceptive lies.

Studyman said:
The entire bible teaches to seek God's Truth and His Righteousness, and then "Walking on them" as God instructs, when we find them.

I'm pretty sure the evil in everyone continues to work directly against God in every way conceivable.

The LAST thing religious people want to do is to confess their internal defiling thoughts, not specifically. Just the fact that they have them and that they are defiling. No, instead they want to "white wash" them and "excuse" them. Make them NOT defiling.

You see the instant you undersand that the defiling thoughts are that, your entire premise of legality in any form flies out the window in favor of reality of being a factual defiling sinner.

Studyman said:
The tempter has a voice, (You shall surely not die). It's your choice to bring it into your heart, just as Eve did. God also has a voice, and it is also our choice whether or not we bring His Words into our heart.

There is no option on the table to be sinless by choices if this is what you are proposing. The defiling thoughts remain on the table for everyone including you and I which is why we are in fact as Paul stated, NO BETTER.

Studyman said:
"many" are not listening to the voice of God, other wise they would understand that the battle is to not let the voice of the tempter rule over us. But to "yield ourselves" to the Word of God instead, and let him guide our footsteps. That is the remedy Paul taught, to overcome the wretched man that I am, as I "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus".

You can listen all you please. The evil present within is not going away. Temptations of the tempter come with the territory.

Studyman said:
Yes, there are other voices who try and convince me not to trust is this God and HIS Words, and yes, "Many" call Jesus Lord, Lord, and yes, "many" come in Christ's Name. But I have been warned about them, so I don't let their voice into my heart.

The deceptive voices are internal in the form of defiling thoughts. No sense trying to blame some other guy

Studyman said:
Some men must demean and discredit others in order to exalt themselves. Again, only by looking in a mirror can a person see himself.

Everyone looks the same. I see people and I see the adversary. They are not the same parties. Never were. Never will be.

Studyman said:
Of course not. As the Jesus of the Bible teaches, "He who endures to the end, shall be saved".

We all endure to our respective ends, whenever that may transpire.

Studyman said:
Again, from the very beginning, it is whose voice we choose

There is no choosing past the defiling thoughts to "rule over." You've already admitted this ground. Stop trying to gloss over the facts of it and making them anything but what they really are.

YOU have no choice in this matter. The evil reacts adversely to God and His Words. You do not control that action anymore than Paul could in Romans 7:7-13, whereby he KNEW beyond any doubt he was a miserable sinner.

Studyman said:
to bring into our hearts that we live by, that determines our fate. God sets before us, the two voices, and we must choose between them. The voice we choose to bring into our hearts, is the internal voice that either enlightens us, or defiles us. Nothing from without our hearts can do this.

Men can hear the voice of the tempter, but not let the voice into our hearts. Jesus proved this in Matt. 4. Men can also hear God's voice, and not let His voice into their heart. (See the Bible) And look around you.

My point from the very beginning, is that the very first "thou shall not" given by God, made manifest all this undeniable truth.

You can dance all you please about how legal and righteous you are, and I actually wouldn't dispute that.

There are not questions about people, but about our ADVERSARY. We don't avoid the wrestling match my friend and the adversary is not about to get blessed by any stretch of the imaginations of religiosity.

Studyman said:
It is right now. But I have the Armor of God on, and the Sword of the Lord, the Holy Scriptures. So I will be able to resist the tempter.

I have never said, suggested or implied any such thing. This behavior you are demonstrating is called "Tale Bearing". The rest of your post is nothing but tale bearing regarding your judgment of my post. It's a Sin.

The remedy for the wretched state I find myself in, is to stop serving the religions of this world, and serving the Law of God instead, letting Him direct my life. Only then am I able to overcome in this world.

Your entire post is nothing more than you exalting yourself at my expense, and justifying your adopted religion. There is no seeking God's Righteousness or truth or even a discussion. Just you preaching your own words.

Why would I "listen" to the words of such a one?

I wont.

Reality bites when on the high and mighty roll, huh?

Studyman · May 22, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
I just did - Romans 1...

So you have the real truth, but others have learned religious lies from others...

That's your judgment against me Carl. That's the purpose of this sarcastic and condescending post. In fact, its the very purpose of your first reply, that you have the truth, and anyone who questions your truth have learned religious lies from others.

Carl Emerson said:
Did you get given it as a gift - was it a download from heaven?

Gosh No Carl, God Himself didn't come down from heaven and reveal Himself to me, as others claim HE did for them. I am just a no-body. The reason we see Paul's teaching in Rom. 1 differently, is much simpler than that. It's based on a simple, but often rejected and ignored common courtesy of listening to "ALL" of the words of a message someone is giving, seeking to understand the truth of the message, as opposed to selecting a couple sentences in the middle of the message, separating them from the rest of the messengers words, then twisting these words to justify a teaching that cannot stand, when all the message in considered.

The Holy Scriptures themselves is a download from heaven, in my understanding. That is why Jesus said to Live By Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God who inspired them, in my view.

Carl Emerson said:
Or was it gained by years of studious work alone with no assistaance?

Paul teaches that the Holy Scriptures are Inspired by God Himself, and are trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

You are free to mock my belief in ALL of Paul's teaching, I am quite used to it from the promoters of this world's religious system. You are also free seek assistance from the "other voices" in the garden God placed you in, if you want Carl. There are certainly "Many" to choose from.

But I am placing my faith in the Holy Scriptures. All that is written, not just the words that can be used to justify popular religious tradition.

Carl Emerson said:
How did you gain this non religious Truth - not mediated from man?

Was my Lord and High Priest not a man when HE walked the earth teaching me in the way that I should go? Were the Prophets HE promoted, not men? Was Paul not a man. And Peter, and James?

What has happened in your heart, that you would make such a foolish and quite childishly false judgment against me?

Are these men, and the God that inspired them, not worthy of your honor and respect? Perhaps you might consider looking inward for once, and consider casting out the imaginations of your heart that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. Or not, it's your choice.

Carl Emerson said:
There's the catch - if it can't be learned from man - why are you trying in vain to pass it on ?

What I did, that caused you to post such a condescending and belittling post, was simply pass on "ALL" of Paul's (A man) teaching in Romans 1, which continues in Rom. 2, which when considered brings question to your philosophy that Paul's message in Romans 1 was about the future Judgment of men who never heard of God or His Laws.

In my understanding we are all learned of man. And we choose which men to listen to. I simply promote that we choose to be learned of the Father, through His Son and the men HE Chose to teach me.

But in this case it is truly in vain.

Carl Emerson said:
Were you selected from among men to understand? Are you a prophet?

I believe God calls men to believe Him. And then "Yield themselves" to Him, as Paul teaches. The Christ "of the Bible" said God was seeking men to worship Him in Spirit and Truth. In my understand God desires all men to worship Him in Spirit and Truth. But according to Scriptures, it's a voluntary humility. A choice men must make of their own free will. I am not a prophet, but I believe the Word's God Inspired HIS Prophets to pass on to me.

Carl Emerson said:
State the source of your exclusive Truth please and how you received it.

It's the same source you cherry picked from Carl. If you would cast off that wicked tradition promoted by this world's religions since the serpent quoted Gen. 2:16, but ignored verse 17, you would see things differently.

It is my hearts desire that you will consider "ALL" of the Christ's Words, and "ALL" of Paul's words, not mine.

BNR32FAN · May 22, 2026

BrotherJJ said:
Jesus didn't say the Pharisees committed a special national sin that no individual can commit. Their accusation revealed the deeper issue: they were rejecting the Holy Spirit's testimony about Him. The apostles explain this plainly: the Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of SIN — ἁμαρτίας (hamartias, singular, not plural) - ""because they believe not on Me"" (Jn 16:7–9). Jesus Himself says the only people who ""die in their sins"" are those who ""believe not"" (Jn 8:24). So the unforgivable sin isn’t a one‑time statement made by Israel; it's the lifelong rejection of the Holy Spirit's witness about Christ. Jesus took away all sin at the cross (Jn 1:29), but unbelief leaves a person outside that forgiveness. The only sin that remains unforgiven is the one a person refuses to let Him remove.

Well Jesus did say several times that everyone will be judged according to their deeds. Belief is what separates a condemned person from a saved person but I don’t think that for those who do not believe that their sins are forgiven all but the sin of unbelief. From what I read in the scriptures those who don’t believe will be judged according to all their sins.

Carl Emerson · May 23, 2026

Studyman said:
That's your judgment against me Carl. That's the purpose of this sarcastic and condescending post. In fact, its the very purpose of your first reply, that you have the truth, and anyone who questions your truth have learned religious lies from others.

Gosh No Carl, God Himself didn't come down from heaven and reveal Himself to me, as others claim HE did for them. I am just a no-body. The reason we see Paul's teaching in Rom. 1 differently, is much simpler than that. It's based on a simple, but often rejected and ignored common courtesy of listening to "ALL" of the words of a message someone is giving, seeking to understand the truth of the message, as opposed to selecting a couple sentences in the middle of the message, separating them from the rest of the messengers words, then twisting these words to justify a teaching that cannot stand, when all the message in considered.

The Holy Scriptures themselves is a download from heaven, in my understanding. That is why Jesus said to Live By Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God who inspired them, in my view.

Paul teaches that the Holy Scriptures are Inspired by God Himself, and are trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

You are free to mock my belief in ALL of Paul's teaching, I am quite used to it from the promoters of this world's religious system. You are also free seek assistance from the "other voices" in the garden God placed you in, if you want Carl. There are certainly "Many" to choose from.

But I am placing my faith in the Holy Scriptures. All that is written, not just the words that can be used to justify popular religious tradition.

Was my Lord and High Priest not a man when HE walked the earth teaching me in the way that I should go? Were the Prophets HE promoted, not men? Was Paul not a man. And Peter, and James?

What has happened in your heart, that you would make such a foolish and quite childishly false judgment against me?

Are these men, and the God that inspired them, not worthy of your honor and respect? Perhaps you might consider looking inward for once, and consider casting out the imaginations of your heart that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. Or not, it's your choice.

What I did, that caused you to post such a condescending and belittling post, was simply pass on "ALL" of Paul's (A man) teaching in Romans 1, which continues in Rom. 2, which when considered brings question to your philosophy that Paul's message in Romans 1 was about the future Judgment of men who never heard of God or His Laws.

In my understanding we are all learned of man. And we choose which men to listen to. I simply promote that we choose to be learned of the Father, through His Son and the men HE Chose to teach me.

But in this case it is truly in vain.

I believe God calls men to believe Him. And then "Yield themselves" to Him, as Paul teaches. The Christ "of the Bible" said God was seeking men to worship Him in Spirit and Truth. In my understand God desires all men to worship Him in Spirit and Truth. But according to Scriptures, it's a voluntary humility. A choice men must make of their own free will. I am not a prophet, but I believe the Word's God Inspired HIS Prophets to pass on to me.

It's the same source you cherry picked from Carl. If you would cast off that wicked tradition promoted by this world's religions since the serpent quoted Gen. 2:16, but ignored verse 17, you would see things differently.

It is my hearts desire that you will consider "ALL" of the Christ's Words, and "ALL" of Paul's words, not mine.

I am sorry you chose not to answer reasonable questions - you see according to James the wisdom from above is reasonable i.e. able to be discussed.

How do you think God will judge the billions of folk who have never heard the gospel in their own language ?

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