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Question about this prayer? Funeral liturgy

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RileyG

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#1. Before we go our separate ways, let us take leave of our brother/sister. May our farewell express our affection for him/her; may it ease our sadness and strengthen our hope. One day we shall joyfully greet him/her again when the love of Christ, which conquers all things, destroys even death itself

#2. Into your hands, Father of mercies,
we commend our brother/sister N.
in the sure and certain hope
that, together with all who have died in Christ, he/she will rise with him.

Merciful Lord,
turn toward us and listen to our prayers:
open the gates of paradise to your servant
and help us who remain
to comfort one another with assurances of faith, until we all meet in Christ
and are with you and with our brother/sister for ever.
We ask this through Christ our Lord. R. Amen.

IMO, both sound rather presumptuous. It essentially states the deceased are already in heaven, and one day we will all go to heaven and see them again.

It gives no recommendation for prayer for the dead or for prayers for the souls in purgatory.

What are your thoughts?

Peace!
 
zippy2006

zippy2006

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zippy2006 said:
I think you should cite the source you are drawing from.
Click to expand...
My guess is that you did not quote the source because it is an anti-Catholic source.

You appear to be quoting from certain options in the commendation section of the funeral Mass, from the 1989 version of the Order of Christian Funerals, published by the USCCB's predecessor. The prayers of petition on behalf of the deceased appear clearly within the Mass itself (and the commendation is a kind of appendix that is often unused). For example, the first option for the introductory rites:

Almighty God and Father,
it is our certain faith
that your Son, who died on the cross, was raised from the dead,
the first fruits of all who have fallen asleep.
Grant that through this mystery
your servant N., who has gone to his/her rest in Christ,
may share in the joy of his resurrection.
We ask this through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son,
who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit,
one God, for ever and ever.

Order of Christian Funerals, 1989, p. 83
Click to expand...

As to the Final Commendation, that translation is the same wave of translation that gave us the outdated translation of the Mass (and an alternative version from ICEL that was rejected by Rome in 2001).

For reference, here is the 1989 translation of the first option for the first prayer of the Final Commendation:

Before we go our separate ways, let us take leave of our
brother/sister. May our farewell express our affection for
him her; may it ease our sadness and strengthen our
hope. One day we shall joyfully greet him her again
when the love of Christ, which conquers all things, de-
stroys even death itself.

Order of Christian Funerals, 1989, p. 89
Click to expand...

Here is the literal Latin as translated by DeepL:

Complying with the duty of the faithful in burying the human body,
Let us faithfully implore the God in whom all things live, that the body of this our brother, to be laid to rest in weakness, may be raised in the power and order of the saints, and that He would command his soul to be gathered in with the holy and the faithful.
May He grant him mercy at the judgment,
so that, redeemed from death, freed from his debts,
reconciled to the Father, carried on the shoulders of the Good Shepherd,
in the company of the eternal King
he may deserve to partake of everlasting joy
and the fellowship of the saints.

DeepL (free version) translation of Ordo Exsequiarum, 1969
Click to expand...

And here is the original Latin:

Débitum humáni córporis sepeliéndi offícium
fidélium more compléntes,
Deum cui ómnia vivunt fidéliter deprecémur,
ut huius fratris nostri corpus,
a nobis in infirmitáte sepeliéndum,
in virtúte et órdine sanctórum resúscitet,
et eius ánimam sanctis et fidélibus iúbeat aggregári.
Tríbuat ei in iudício misericórdiam,
ut, morte redémptus, débitis solútus,
Patri reconciliátus, boni Pastóris húmeris reportátus,
in comitátu Regis ætérni
perénni gáudio et sanctórum consórtio
pérfrui mereátur.

Ordo Exsequiarum, 1969 (Editio Typica)
Click to expand...

This is an instructive example of how the problems often laid at the feet of Vatican II actually come from local Churches in the 70's and 80's. The Vatican II text does not exhibit the problems of the unfaithful translations.
 
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zippy2006 said:
My guess is that you did not quote the source because it is an anti-Catholic source.

You appear to be quoting from certain options in the commendation section of the funeral Mass, from the 1989 version of the Order of Christian Funerals, published by the USCCB's predecessor. The prayers of petition on behalf of the deceased appear clearly within the Mass itself (and the commendation is a kind of appendix that is often unused). For example, the first option for the introductory rites:



As to the Final Commendation, that translation is the same wave of translation that gave us the outdated translation of the Mass (and an alternative version from ICEL that was rejected by Rome in 2001).

For reference, here is the 1989 translation of the first option for the first prayer of the Final Commendation:



Here is the literal Latin as translated by DeepL:



And here is the original Latin:



This is an instructive example of how the problems often laid at the feet of Vatican II actually come from local Churches in the 70's and 80's. The Vatican II text does not exhibit the problems of the unfaithful translations.
Click to expand...
Actually, what I cited has indeed been used in Catholic funerals. One moment….
 
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zippy2006 said:
My guess is that you did not quote the source because it is an anti-Catholic source.

You appear to be quoting from certain options in the commendation section of the funeral Mass, from the 1989 version of the Order of Christian Funerals, published by the USCCB's predecessor. The prayers of petition on behalf of the deceased appear clearly within the Mass itself (and the commendation is a kind of appendix that is often unused). For example, the first option for the introductory rites:



As to the Final Commendation, that translation is the same wave of translation that gave us the outdated translation of the Mass (and an alternative version from ICEL that was rejected by Rome in 2001).

For reference, here is the 1989 translation of the first option for the first prayer of the Final Commendation:



Here is the literal Latin as translated by DeepL:



And here is the original Latin:



This is an instructive example of how the problems often laid at the feet of Vatican II actually come from local Churches in the 70's and 80's. The Vatican II text does not exhibit the problems of the unfaithful translations.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info! The second part definitely makes more sense and doesn’t presume the soul of the departed.

Peace
 
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Many monastic and religious communities continue to pray for their deceased religious in daily Mass and Vespers, even decades (or even 100+ years have past) after the religious sister or brother have died.

Source: prayed daily office with a religious community many, many times. They continue to pray for all their departed religious, even those who died in the late 1800s.
 
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RileyG said:
Thanks for the info! The second part definitely makes more sense and doesn’t presume the soul of the departed.

Peace
Click to expand...
Yes, it is an unfortunate translation, but we must remember that the final commendation is part of the funeral Mass, and the funeral Mass itself includes many prayers on behalf of the deceased. It is not presumptuous.

(Correction: My claim that the commendation is somewhat rare was mistaken. I was mixing up the commendation and the committal.)
 
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zippy2006 said:
Yes, it is an unfortunate translation, but we must remember that the final commendation is part of the funeral Mass, and the funeral Mass itself includes many prayers on behalf of the deceased. It is not presumptuous.

(Correction: My claim that the commendation is somewhat rare was mistaken. I was mixing up the commendation and the committal.)
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info!

Peace!
 
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