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SCOTUS Has Made Their Decisions On Redistricting. Now What?

Hans Blaster

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Now we celebrate the elimination of racist-drawn districts.
I think you might not be getting that right, friend.

There was a nearly congressional district sized, compact, city (Memphis) and county (Shelby) that were both majority Black and they were sliced into 3 pieces with districts spreading across West and Central Tennessee. Doesn't it seem more racist to draw that district out of existence?
 
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chilehed

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I think you might not be getting that right, friend.

There was a nearly congressional district sized, compact, city (Memphis) and county (Shelby) that were both majority Black and they were sliced into 3 pieces with districts spreading across West and Central Tennessee. Doesn't it seem more racist to draw that district out of existence?
No.
 
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A_JAY

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Now we celebrate the elimination of racist-drawn districts.
The key is "racist" and Tennessee redrawing the Memphis district is racist and is gerrymandering in the truest sense.
 
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hedrick

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According to one web page there are 4 states with independent commissions: Arizona (9), California (52), Colorado (8), and Michigan (13). My concern is that none of those states are dominated by people who are hard-core into gerrymandering. I wonder whether it would be possible to get real independence in many states. I do see some advantage to having people represent districts. Admittedly districts are pretty large. But I doubt whether at the moment we can make districting work. If this is done by law (which the Constitution allows) it could be changed in the future. Indeed the biggest danger is that even if a future congress puts something in place, the next time we have a situation like ithe current one, it would get undone. My hope is that in a few year Republicans will get back to being a legimate party (in which case I might return to being a Republican). If so, we can reconsider.
 
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Hans Blaster

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And your evidence for racist intent in that is what? The racist idea that only a black person can represent a black person?
Well for starters they took a perfectly reasonable district that would exist under any anti-gerrymandering regulations (compactness, similarity) and broke it up into three pieces. The people of Memphis will not have one Representive in the House, but three and the majority of the voters in the three districts representing Memphis (a city) will be in rural areas, small towns, and the NASHVILLE suburbs.

Please tell me how having a district focused and centered on Memphis is "racist" (the claim you made initially about such districts being eliminated).
 
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chilehed

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Well for starters they took a perfectly reasonable district that would exist under any anti-gerrymandering regulations (compactness, similarity) and broke it up into three pieces. The people of Memphis will not have one Representive in the House, but three and the majority of the voters in the three districts representing Memphis (a city) will be in rural areas, small towns, and the NASHVILLE suburbs.
So you admit that there's no evidence of racism here.

Please tell me how having a district focused and centered on Memphis is "racist" (the claim you made initially about such districts being eliminated).
What are you on about? I said nothing of the sort, nor did I say anything that sounded remotely like it. I replied to the topic of the thread: the SCOTUS decisions which held that 1.) it's unconstitutional to draw district boundaries based on racist ideology, and 2.) that the Virginia Supreme court ruling about the meaning of the Virginia constitution is not subject to review by the SCOTUS.
 
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Hans Blaster

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So you admit that there's no evidence of racism here.
I did nothing of the sort.
What are you on about? I said nothing of the sort, nor did I say anything that sounded remotely like it. I replied to the topic of the thread: the SCOTUS decisions which held that 1.) it's unconstitutional to draw district boundaries based on racist ideology, and 2.) that the Virginia Supreme court ruling about the meaning of the Virginia constitution is not subject to review by the SCOTUS.

You claimed that the "racist districts" were being eliminated now that SCOTUS made their ruling. I have discussed TN-9 (Memphis). How was the old TN-9 racist or were you talking about other districts that were eliminated.
 
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chilehed

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I did nothing of the sort.
And yet when you were invited to show actual evidence of racism in the redrawing of that district you were unable to.

You claimed that the "racist districts" were being eliminated now that SCOTUS made their ruling.
That was the ruling that SCOTUS made: that districts drawn on the basis of race are unlawful. Have you not read the ruling? Or is it that you just understood it as poorly as you understood what I've said thus far?
 
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Always in His Presence

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I think you might not be getting that right, friend.

There was a nearly congressional district sized, compact, city (Memphis) and county (Shelby) that were both majority Black and they were sliced into 3 pieces with districts spreading across West and Central Tennessee. Doesn't it seem more racist to draw that district out of existence?
No - it doesn't accurately reflect the voters in that area - all members of a race do not vote the same.
 
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Hans Blaster

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And yet when you were invited to show actual evidence of racism in the redrawing of that district you were unable to.
It was *YOU* that claimed the districts being eliminated were racist:

Now we celebrate the elimination of racist-drawn districts.

Tell us how the old Tennessee 9th district which was radically redraw was *racist* before the recent redraw.

That was the ruling that SCOTUS made: that districts drawn on the basis of race are unlawful. Have you not read the ruling? Or is it that you just understood it as poorly as you understood what I've said thus far?

I want you to explain how districts like TN9 were "racist". That is what you haven't explained.
 
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chilehed

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It was *YOU* that claimed the districts being eliminated were racist:

Tell us how the old Tennessee 9th district which was radically redraw was *racist* before the recent redraw.

I want you to explain how districts like TN9 were "racist". That is what you haven't explained.
Once again you demonstrate poor comprehension (or else bad faith, but I hope that's not the case). It's apparent to any objective reader that what I said was that now that the SCOTUS has ruled against the drawing of districts along racist lines, we can celebrate the end of racist-drawn districts. I never said that that particular district was drawn in a racist manner nor did I say anything that sounded remotely like it, that was you putting words in my mouth. If anyone has something to explain here, it's you.

You're the one who's claimed, without evidence, racist intent in the redrawing of the district you mentioned. Do you really hold to the racist idea that only a black person can represent a black person?
 
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Hans Blaster

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Once again you demonstrate poor comprehension (or else bad faith, but I hope that's not the case). It's apparent to any objective reader that what I said was that now that the SCOTUS has ruled against the drawing of districts along racist lines, we can celebrate the end of racist-drawn districts. I never said that that particular district was drawn in a racist manner nor did I say anything that sounded remotely like it, that was you putting words in my mouth. If anyone has something to explain here, it's you.
Racist district boundaries were already illegal under the VRA of 1964.

What you did say was:

"Now we celebrate the elimination of racist-drawn districts."

You now seem to agree that the old TN-9 wasn't racist-drawn. I accept that position from you, so we can move on.

What district (current or recently undone) was "racist-drawn" or did no such district exist?
You're the one who's claimed, without evidence, racist intent in the redrawing of the district you mentioned.
We can come back to that and the motivations for undoing a non-racist district, but I'd rather hear what these "racist-drawn" districts could be first.
Do you really hold to the racist idea that only a black person can represent a black person?
I never said anything of the sort. The current representative of the aforementioned TN-9 is a white and Jewish, elected in a Black-majority district.
 
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chilehed

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You now seem to agree that the old TN-9 wasn't racist-drawn. I accept that position from you, so we can move on.
I said no such thing, nor did I seem to. In fact, I said nothing at all one way or the other on that matter. Once again you insist on putting words in my mouth. This, and the fact that you don't know which districts were the subject of the SCOTUS ruling (and so obviously haven't bothered to take even a cursory look at it) indicates much about you, none of it good, and I see no further reason to engage with you.
 
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zippy2006

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What I mean is you set a geometrical requirement as to what the districts would be like...
From Peter Simpson's Political Illiberalism:

Notice, further, that a party is specially organized to manipulate the people and their interests so as to keep them in line with what the party wants. It manipulates the people through determining how they are divided into electoral groupings, and it manipulates their interests through political propaganda.

The manipulation in the first case is achieved through the drawing of the geographical areas that a given representative will be elected to represent. Areas are drawn that, through creative geometry, aredesigned to catch that portion of the people a majority of whom can, because of their social class or wealth, be relied on always to favor the party drawing the area. Different parties collude with each other in this process and agree to parcel up the people into electoral groupings mutually favorable to each party’s interest. The process has come to be called gerrymandering. It is a word not in good odor, but it is hard to see why. If there are no interests but actual interests, and if representation is to be of these interests, there can be little sense in not trying to combine those with similar and compatible interests into the same electoral groupings so that they will be able to choose a representative who will answer to those interests. To leave interests arbitrarily distributed, where no harmony or pattern among them can be discerned or felt, is to ensure that the representation of them will be equally arbitrary, to the annoyance and frustration of all alike.

The manipulation of interests, on the other hand, consists entirely in the arts of the demagogue...

Political Illiberalism, 42-3

The point here is that if the only relevant interests for the sake of representation are the actual interests of the constituents (as opposed to the ideal interest of the constituents) then it's hard to understand what is wrong with gerrymandering, or what the alternative even is. A "geographical" philosophy misunderstands the fact that human "geography" [population centers] is partisan (i.e. it is based around groupings of like-minded people). The initial act of "gerrymandering" is simply circumscribing one's country and distinguishing it from everything else.

That is a relatively recent development brought on by the focus on partisanship.
Partisanship is just how our system works. It is literally a party-based system, where the most powerful political actors are the political parties. It is inevitable that a party-driven system (i.e. a form of oligarchy) will be partisan and will lead to partisanship, in much the same way that the planets orbit around the sun in a solar system.
 
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Hans Blaster

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What's next is the Supreme Court is going to get another shot at this...

The SC ruling was taken to the federal District Court for Northern Alabama to undo the injunction on the Alabama redistricting and well...


To quote the 3 judge panel
“Ultimately, we cannot see our way clear to requiring Alabamians to cast their votes in the 2026 elections under a districting plan tainted by intentional race-based discrimination,”

Full ruling:


Two of the judges were appointed by Donald Trump (45).
 
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