• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Mamdani's Miraculous Balanced Budget

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
42,407
17,290
Fort Smith
✟1,558,117.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat

When he's not playing soccer with teens, riding bikes to school on Brooklyn bike lanes, or singing to preschoolers with Obama, the most charismatic politician in the country has erased a $12 billion debt and balanced the budget.

With help from Albany without resorting to raising property taxes or any taxes on working people. While embarking on a free preschool program for 2-year-olds getting after scofflaw landlords improving the transportation system
and fulfilling campaign promises.

He is a living example of what a democratic socialist can do to turn around the greatest city in our country..
 
Last edited:

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
30,376
17,274
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟503,596.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
As thatrobguy has posted, a large portion of this funding was covered by teh state.

That said, the fact that he has brought it up AND introduced some big ticket help for workers, shows it can be done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThatRobGuy
Upvote 0

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
42,407
17,290
Fort Smith
✟1,558,117.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
NYC was funding 57% of NYS' budget and only getting 42% back. I'd call that a fair recalculation. A vibrant NYC provides employment to people in Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, and Rockland Counties along with NJ and CT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iluvatar5150
Upvote 0

Vambram

Born-again Christian; Constitutional conservative
Site Supporter
Dec 3, 2006
9,737
6,640
61
Saint James, Missouri
✟548,436.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

 
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
24,905
4,597
48
PA
✟231,602.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others

When he's not playing soccer with teens, riding bikes to school on Brooklyn bike lanes, or singing to preschoolers with Obama, the most charismatic politician in the country has erased a $12 billion debt and balanced the budget.

With help from Albany without resorting to raising property taxes or any taxes on working people. While embarking on a free preschool program for 2-year-olds getting after scofflaw landlords improving the transportation system
and fulfilling campaign promises.

He is a living example of what a democratic socialist can do to turn around the greatest city in our country..

As I read this post, I marvel that anyone could possibly believe this. The $12 BILLION that has been "erased" didn't just disappear. The claim doesn't even pass the smell test. Things that sound too good to be true usually are.
 

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
42,407
17,290
Fort Smith
✟1,558,117.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I guess you're talking about this paragraph from the Gateway Pundit article:
According to city budget documents cited by the New York Post, officials are eyeing a laundry list of new fees, fines, and enforcement crackdowns to help plug fiscal gaps.
Fees are paid by people receiving goods or services in return for payment. There is nothing wrong about asking people who receive a good or service to pay a higher price, because they are receiving something of value for the fee.

Fines are assessed to people who violate laws. There is nothing wrong about raising fines or enforcing them more strictly.

Re: Enforcement Crackdowns Laws should be enforced, particularly when the laws protect safety of tenants, consumers, and city residents

I thought Republicans believed in law enforcement and fees but I guess when a Democratic socialist uses these tools to lower deficits and serve the common good, they get angry.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
24,905
4,597
48
PA
✟231,602.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Fees are paid by people receiving goods or services in return for payment. There is nothing wrong about asking people who receive a good or service to pay a higher price, because they are receiving something of value for the fee.

That's quite the spin.

One of the things that is included in the budget proposal \is increased fees on concessions at NYC parks. Specifically, the budget calls to raise an additional $11 MILLION in fees from sales of concessions in NYC parks. So when you take your family to the park and you want ice cream cones on a hot summer night, you'll pay more, not because you're getting something higher in value, but because it's necessary to balance the "miraculous" budget referenced in your OP.

Fines are assessed to people who violate laws. There is nothing wrong about raising fines or enforcing them more strictly.

That's true.

The biggest problem with the "miraculous" budget is that at this point, it's a theoretical proposal. Time will tell how just how much this "miraculous" budget will cost residents on a daily basis.
 
  • Like
Reactions: whatbogsends

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
42,407
17,290
Fort Smith
✟1,558,117.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
That's quite the spin.

One of the things that is included in the budget proposal \is increased fees on concessions at NYC parks. Specifically, the budget calls to raise an additional $11 MILLION in fees from sales of concessions in NYC parks. So when you take your family to the park and you want ice cream cones on a hot summer night, you'll pay more, not because you're getting something higher in value, but because it's necessary to balance the "miraculous" budget referenced in your OP..
Food costs have gone up.
Why shouldn't the cost of ice cream be shouldered by those who enjoy it? If the increase is unreasonable, they'll have grocery store ice cream when they get home.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iluvatar5150
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
24,905
4,597
48
PA
✟231,602.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Food costs have gone up.

Yes. And now, there will be a fee in addition to the increased food costs to help balance the city's budget.

Why shouldn't the cost of ice cream be shouldered by those who enjoy it?

Because it's not the cost of ice cream that we're talking about. It's a FEE on top of the increased price of ice cream that has nothing to do with ice cream. It's $11 MILLION paid to the city to balance the budget.

If the increase is unreasonable, they'll have grocery store ice cream when they get home.

I suppose so. Until someone decides not enough people are buying ice cream at concession stands and imposes fees on store-bought ice cream as well. But then I suppose they could go to New Jersey to buy their ice cream.
 

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
44,173
21,390
Finger Lakes
✟374,109.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yes. And now, there will be a fee in addition to the increased food costs to help balance the city's budget.
A luxury tax for the convenience of buying food in the park. It's free to get into parks in NYC, but not not zoos or aquariums, and nearly all of them have restaurants and bodegas nearby.
Because it's not the cost of ice cream that we're talking about. It's a FEE on top of the increased price of ice cream that has nothing to do with ice cream. It's $11 MILLION paid to the city to balance the budget.
Why shouldn't the cost of the convenience of buying ice cream inside the park be shouldered by those who enjoy it? It is not a tax on necessities, but a source of revenue to pay down debts and to provide services to the residents.
I suppose so. Until someone decides not enough people are buying ice cream at concession stands and imposes fees on store-bought ice cream as well.
Are you talking grocery stores or ice cream shops? People already do this as well as buying from street vendors and ice cream trucks - Mr. Softee anyone? I don't know, but I suspect, that the ice cream concessions are largely supported by tourism rather than residents; tourism in NYC is big business.

Mayor Bloomberg tried to impose a junk food tax/surcharge citywide but it didn't go over well even though it was for the health of the populace rather than strictly for revenue. New York already has "sin taxes" on liquor and tobacco.
But then I suppose they could go to New Jersey to buy their ice cream.
You know it's not free to get to New Jersey unless you walk or bike (gasoline is extra expensive on the NY side and NJ forbids drivers from pumping their own, so figure in the tip, plus bridge and tunnel tolls) and your ice cream cone would probably be melted by the time you got back to the park.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Gene2memE

Newbie
Oct 22, 2013
4,934
7,669
✟375,084.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
That's quite the spin.

One of the things that is included in the budget proposal \is increased fees on concessions at NYC parks. Specifically, the budget calls to raise an additional $11 MILLION in fees from sales of concessions in NYC parks.

New York has moe than 1,700 parks, with Central Park alone estimated to receive more than 42 million visits per year.

How many hundred of million visits and transactions do you think that $11 million will be spread over?

Quite the spin indeed.
 
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
24,905
4,597
48
PA
✟231,602.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
A luxury tax for the convenience of buying food in the park. It's free to get into parks in NYC, but not not zoos or aquariums, and nearly all of them have restaurants and bodegas nearby.

Yes. And now the "luxury tax" will be added if you decide to eat at any of them.

Why shouldn't the cost of the convenience of buying ice cream inside the park be shouldered by those who enjoy it?

Sure. If people want to pay a "luxury tax" to enjoy an ice cream cone with their kids in the park, that's certainly their prerogative. And if they want to pay the extra price, more power to them. Sadly, this likely means more people will be unable to enjoy ice cream in the park with their children.

It is not a tax on necessities, but a source of revenue to pay down debts and to provide services to the residents.

So let's make people who enjoy ice cream in the park pay for the city's poor financial management and/or inability to live within a budget. Brilliant!

Are you talking grocery stores or ice cream shops? People already do this as well as buying from street vendors and ice cream trucks - Mr. Softee anyone? I don't know, but I suspect, that the ice cream concessions are largely supported by tourism rather than residents; tourism in NYC is big business.

Yrs it is. However, it remains to be seen if this new source of revenue will actually materialize at the levels necessary for a balanced budget..

Here in PA, we don't tax clothing or food. Well, most food. If you buy groceries, there's no tax. But if you buy a meal at a restaurant, or any kind of prepared food, then it is taxable. Thankfully, I can enjoy my ice cream from the grocery store tax free. For now.

Interestingly, we see firsthand how far people are willing to go to avoid taxes. For example, there are regular tour bus trips to the outlet mall here with people coming from Canada (which is easily 3-4 hours from the mall) just to shop for clothes. It seems quite a few people are willing to go well out of their way to avoid paying taxes.

Mayor Bloomberg tried to impose a junk food tax/surcharge citywide but it didn't go over well even though it was for the health of the populace rather than strictly for revenue. New York already has "sin taxes" on liquor and tobacco.

Yes, NYC is already crazy expensive. I suppose a few extra bucks in fees will just be absorbed by the populace. For their benefit. Or something.

I guess it depends on what benefits people see. My guess is that they'll just end up paying more for, well, pretty much everything, and not really see any tangible benefit. But only time will tell.

You know it's not free to get to New Jersey unless you walk or bike (gasoline is extra expensive on the NY side and NJ forbids drivers from pumping their own, so figure in the tip, plus bridge and tunnel tolls) and your ice cream cone would probably be melted by the time you got back to the park.

Or, you could go to New Jersey on the bus (which is WAY cheaper than driving yourself) and eat it in New Jersey where they (may or may not) impose luxury taxes on ice cream.
 

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
24,905
4,597
48
PA
✟231,602.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
New York has moe than 1,700 parks, with Central Park alone estimated to receive more than 42 million visits per year.

Yep. I've been to Central Park quite a few times. Never bought ice cream there through, because it was pretty pricey even before this new fee. I guess if nothing else, we'll all find out just how much people are willing to pay for ice cream (and other concessions).

How many hundred of million visits and transactions do you think that $11 million will be spread over?

Good question. I've not seen the detailed plan. Have you?
 

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
42,407
17,290
Fort Smith
✟1,558,117.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I lived in NYC and its suburbs for 40.years. We visited parks, zoos, and beaches many times. At the beach we always brought our snacks.
I never once wondered: Is this concession charging 50%, 60%, 70% over wholesale? Are those profits subsidizing the parks budget? Is some of it being siphoned off for other things?
I go up to the counter, look at the menu, and decide what to get. It seems more than likely that you are so upset that Mamdani is making people pay a little more for ice cream and and using that small profit to have a balanced budget that will benefit all New Yorkers.

TBT, the idea that we should put price controls on ice cream seems like government overreach to me.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0

Always in His Presence

Jesus is the only Way
Site Supporter
Nov 15, 2006
52,691
18,102
Broken Arrow, OK
✟1,210,866.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
From the NYPost link:

City Hall plans on jacking up the costs for ambulance transportation to net nearly $25 million more a year and charge people for EMS help even if they aren’t taken to a hospital, which would add another $10 million to the coffers, according to the mayor’s savings program.

Ticketing more cars in bus lanes, upping enforcement on the trade waste industry and public wholesale markets and funny accounting practices like shifting revenue from tree replacement fees from the city’s capital budget into the city’s expense budget were also tied to the savings, city docs stated.

Then add the extra help from New York State - it seems the good mayor is building his budget on the sick and injured - doing some voodoo accounting and using other tax payers money he increased his budget by 12 billion and calls it a victory.
 

Servus

<><
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
31,984
16,253
Washington
✟1,161,789.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
From the NYPost link:



Then add the extra help from New York State - it seems the good mayor is building his budget on the sick and injured - doing some voodoo accounting and using other tax payers money he increased his budget by 12 billion and calls it a victory.
Yeah but he plays soccer, rides bikes, and sings.
 
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
24,905
4,597
48
PA
✟231,602.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It seems more than likely that you are so upset that Mamdani is making people pay a little more for ice cream and and using that small profit to have a balanced budget that will benefit all New Yorkers.

I don't really care what New Yorkers pay for ice cream. But your OP says that the budget has been balanced "miraculously". It has not. Fees are going be imposed on New Yorkers to help make up the difference. It remains to be seen just how much that will impact New Yorkers on a daily basis. It also remains to be seen just how much "benefit" they'll see as a result.

TBT, the idea that we should put price controls on ice cream seems like government overreach to me.

:rolleyes:

Absolutely no one said anything about price controls on ice cream. It's odd that you would equate a government-imposed fee to a price control. That sounds... disingenuous at best.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,966
17,719
Here
✟1,627,217.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
When he's not playing soccer with teens, riding bikes to school on Brooklyn bike lanes, or singing to preschoolers with Obama, the most charismatic politician in the country has erased a $12 billion debt and balanced the budget.
As thatrobguy has posted, a large portion of this funding was covered by teh state.

That said, the fact that he has brought it up AND introduced some big ticket help for workers, shows it can be done.

And to provide a little more background on that...

The details:
--$8 billion in total state assistance over two years (Hochul/Albany), including $4 billion in new gap-closing support — $352 million in direct aid, $3.2 billion from programs requiring state authorization, $500 million in new revenue.

--More than $1 billion in savings came through delaying the state's mandated cap on class sizes. (delaying the enforcement of a self-imposed rule that was going to create part of the deficit, and then claiming it as a savings, is a bit of the creative accounting)

--$2 billion+ from pension amortization (restructuring payments — i.e., kicking them down the road).

So the bulk of the deficit closure came from state aid and accounting changes, not from Mamdani's own cost-cutting or revenue generation.


So to say he's "erased the debt" would inaccurate.

As far as his personal contributions to that $12 billion figure, it's a much more modest number, and still theoretical in terms of whether or not he'll be able to pull it off.

Infographic from the NYC government:
1778855070517.png


I would say it's a 50/50 in terms of that $947M line item.

And as far as the line item above discussing "managing overtime" (for the public sector union employees), that's likely to die on the vine.


He is a living example of what a democratic socialist can do to turn around the greatest city in our country..
We already knew what a socialist can do - We knew that from the eastern bloc nations back in the 80s

What they can do is:
1) Leverage previous funds that were accrued under capitalism
2) Lean on other larger entities to fill gaps
3) Kick the obligation can down the road as far as possible in order to free up funds for social programs now

...but once you burn through the stockpile of money that built up previously under capitalism, and the bigger entity can no longer afford to bail you out, and the can can't be kicked down the road any further, that's when the rubber meets the road.

Hence the reason why those nations started folding once they ran of "old money" to redistribute, and when "Big Brother Russia" could no longer afford to keep subsidizing them.


To me, having to rely on outside sources for 2/3 of a deficit closure (and having to restructure debts to kick the can down the road) indicates the opposite of anything resembling a self-sufficient system.

Pension amortization is a particularly risky endeavor (especially when used as a way to free up money and lines of credit to buy more stuff now)

...tantamount to getting a credit card consolidation loan with a 20 year term to pay down my credits cards tomorrow, in order to be able to buy more stuff on said credit cards immediately. Because then people end up in the situation where they eventually have the same credit card payment they had before, PLUS that debt consolidation payment on top of it.


The city's unions aren't necessarily keen on this plan
 
Upvote 0