New not renewed Covenant

ralliann · May 12, 2026

HIM said:
As was said before God says Law. This includes the commandments but is not inclusive to just.

They broke the covenant. This the second covenant according to verse 6. It can’t be the second if it is renew. The first defaulted by the Israelites therefore the second is needed. Notice the first is also vanishing away in verse 13 not vanished

Why is that?

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

They like the Pharisees won't acknowledge the covenant of circumcision which God swore an oath, making the promise IMMUTABLE.....It is a form of replacement theology (same effect).
They won't distiguish between the covenant of their fathers (circumcision) from the covenant at Sinai from Moses.

Delvianna · May 12, 2026

HIM said:
Absolutely not. Verse 22 says a new thing a women shall compass a man. That is a new thing not renewed.

And there is more to what I posted to you other than a repeat to what was posted to you before.

My argument shows context in literally the next verse. So there's no point in going on with the rest when I'm showing you that you have an error. Bypassing the error to continue with the rest of what you said, is pointless without addressing the error.

SabbathBlessings · May 12, 2026

ralliann said:
The land was promised by God's oath to Abraham hundreds of years before Moses law.

Are you claiming there are two promised lands that God gave His people. Can you please quote this from Scripture.

ralliann said:
Because they lacked faith, the law Abraham walked by.

It is a restoration to the land. The oath of God spoke to his faithfulness. God keeps his oath.....
Unto thy seed...... The law 400 years later cannot disannul God's oath.

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Ex 33:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it:

Le 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

De 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
De 9:27 Remember thy servants, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; look not unto the stubbornness of this people, nor to their wickedness, nor to their sin:

De 29:13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

De 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
De 34:4 And the LORD said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither.

The passover is a memorial sacrifice, and a feast to memorialize the faithfulness of God to his oath concerning them.

De 7:8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

So are you claiming God gave their land back without obedience can you please demonstrate this from Scripture.

Many never received their inheritance because of disobedience

Eze 20:15 So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands, 16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

They lost their land again to Babylon because of disobedience

2 King 24:20 Zedekiah rebelled… and thus Judah was carried away out of his land
2 King 25:21 So Judah was carried away out of their land.

Jer 25:8-11 Because they did not obey, “this whole land shall be a desolation… and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”

Only a small remnant who obeyed God came back after they were captured.

Today there is still a remnant who obey God and His commandments Rev12:17 and who will receive the inheritance Rev22:14

God does keep His promises, but it doesn't mean we are entitled to the promises when we rebel, just as many before us who professed the name of God but didn't do what God asked.

Delvianna · May 12, 2026

ralliann said:
They like the Pharisees won't acknowledge the covenant of circumcision which God swore an oath, making the promise IMMUTABLE.....It is a form of replacement theology (same effect).
They won't distiguish between the covenant of their fathers (circumcision) from the covenant at Sinai from Moses.

Don't paint a broad brush. You'll find that you're wrong.

SabbathBlessings · May 12, 2026

HIM said:
As was said before God says Law. This includes the commandments but is not inclusive to just.

They broke the covenant. This the second covenant according to verse 6. It can’t be the second if it is renewed. As was said and is written, The first was defaulted by the Israelites therefore the second is needed. Notice the first is also vanishing away in verse 13 not vanished

Why is that?

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

There was nothing wrong with the first covenant, why God never sought to replace it, they broke their promise that was the fault. God in His great mercy made a new agreement- He renewed the covenant.

You accuse me of talking over you but you never addressed this:

Who is the "New Covenant" agreement between- different people?
Are you claiming its all new laws and God never renewed the words of the first agreement that He promised not to alter Psa89:34?

The same God,
The same people (Israel/Judah),
The same law, written on the heart,
Covenant continuity.
God renewed His covenant, the promises are new Heb8:6

Its like if I have an agreement with someone and say I own software. The agreement is broken because the other party didn't hold up to their terms. Another agreement is made, same software, same people, just some minor tweaks, the agreement was renewed. Its not all brand new, new software, new people etc. Its continuity.

Why the Greek word in the Scripture I previously provided in these verses supports this assertion.

I am OK agreeing to disagree. I am going to move on.

ralliann · May 12, 2026

SabbathBlessings said:
I am going to refer to the word of God.

It would be better if you would refer to the law (also the word of God) which you are relying.
Pushing new covenant promises to Abraham for his inheritance (in the resurrection) does not IMO benefit anyone in these conversations. You are relying on the law, then use God's law for your proofs. You can speak of keeping law, commandments etc. Abraham kept all those things four hundred years before Sinai. The law Abraham walked by was the law of faith,

Gen 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
How do we know this.
Rom 4: 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 ¶ Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ga 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Abraham (and the other patriarchs) were personally promised the land in Gen 17......
In Gene 15, They all die.......

This earthly, worldly inheritance..........

Gen 15: 15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
The promise of the resurrection therfore is for the patriarchs of all his seed.

ralliann · May 12, 2026

Delvianna said:
Don't paint a broad brush. You'll find that you're wrong.

Broad brush? I think it is a pretty broad brush they are going by. So bring your opinions forth, i will listen to that. Not this.

HIM · May 12, 2026

Delvianna said:
My argument shows context in literally the next verse. So there's no point in going on with the rest when I'm showing you that you have an error. Bypassing the error to continue with the rest of what you said, is pointless without addressing the error.

No where is it said a woman would be compassing a man prior to this here in Jer 31:22. As is written it is a new thing.

There is no arguing it. Not sure why you are or why SabbathBlessings agreed with you.

Delvianna · May 12, 2026

HIM said:
No where is it said a woman would be compassing a man written to this here i Jer 31:22. As is written it is a new thing.

There is no arguing it. Not sure why you are or why SabbathBlessings agreed with you.

For the 3rd time, I said the next verse, 23 which gives context to 22.

HIM · May 12, 2026

Delvianna said:
For the 3rd time, I said the next verse, 23 which gives context to 22.

Even if you put it in capital letters with an explanation point it still doesn’t take away the fact that a woman shall compass a man has never been talked about as something that will be by God. Hence why it is a new thing.

SabbathBlessings · May 12, 2026

ralliann said:
It would be better if you would refer to the law (also the word of God) which you are relying.
Pushing new covenant promises to Abraham for his inheritance (in the resurrection) does not IMO benefit anyone in these conversations. You are relying on the law, then use God's law for your proofs. You can speak of keeping law, commandments etc. Abraham kept all those things four hundred years before Sinai. The law Abraham walked by was the law of faith,

Gen 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
How do we know this.
Rom 4: 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 ¶ Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ga 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Abraham (and the other patriarchs) were personally promised the land in Gen 17......
In Gene 15, They all die.......

This earthly, worldly inheritance..........

Gen 15: 15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
The promise of the resurrection therfore is for the patriarchs of all his seed.

You keep changing the direction of this discussion and have not addressed any of the Scriptures provided.

You have made it sound like the promise through Abraham on their inheritance of the land is a different promise land than the Israelites received - can you show this through Scripture?

I asked if you can provide any Scripture where the Israelites were able to keep their promise land and be disobedient to God's commandments? You have not demonstrated this. The Bible clearly shows the opposite.

You now seem to indicate that Abraham did not keep the commandments but walked by faith. Why do you think faith means disobeying God and His commandments when you even referenced Abraham did keep God's commandments Gen26:5. By faith Abraham obeyed God Heb 11:8. Faith establishes the law, not voids it Rom3:31

I think we are getting too far off the topic of this thread.

Delvianna · May 12, 2026

ralliann said:
They like the Pharisees won't acknowledge the covenant of circumcision which God swore an oath, making the promise IMMUTABLE.....It is a form of replacement theology (same effect).
They won't distiguish between the covenant of their fathers (circumcision) from the covenant at Sinai from Moses.

ralliann said:
Broad brush? I think it is a pretty broad brush they are going by. So bring your opinions forth, i will listen to that. Not this.

Alright then. There is a difference between the covenant of circumcision verses the covenant made on Sinai. To conflate the two and say "they won't distinguish" again, is painting a broad brush on who "they" are. There were laws and rules that God assigned to the people during that time, and there are laws and rules that God assigned to everyone. The commandments on Sinai, is everyone since God literally said it is also for any foreigner living in the land while circumcision was directed to Abraham and his literal descendants. So no, I don't conflate the two. What was given on Sinai is what Paul brought to the gentiles, which did not include circumcision. Paul taught the point of the law which is this:

The law shows us how much in need we are for grace. The law itself doesn't save us because we can never be perfect from the start, we need grace. But that also doesn't mean we toss the law out as irrelevant as Paul in Romans argued to continue with it. Not for salvation purposes but because they were Gods instructions on how we are required to live. And when I mean the law, I mean the moral law. Not the civil or sacrificial law that was commanded just for Israel.

Delvianna · May 12, 2026

HIM said:
Even if you put it in capital letters with an explanation point it still doesn’t take away the fact that a woman shall compass a man has never been talked about as something that will be by God. Hence why it is a new thing.

Okay so since you want to ignore the rest of the context of the chapter in favor of your own thoughts, then this is going to go no where. I don't disregard scripture.

HIM · May 12, 2026

Delvianna said:
Okay so since you want to ignore the rest of the context of the chapter in favor of your own thoughts, then this is going to go no where. I don't disregard scripture.

That isn’t an argument. Show where God had said a woman shall compass a man prior to this here in Jeremiah. That would be the argument.

Delvianna · May 12, 2026

HIM said:
That isn’t an argument. Show where God had said a woman shall compass a man prior to this here in Jeremiah. That would be the argument.

Sorry but I'm not going to entertain whatever you say when you're refusing to address what I said from my very first response. That's not how this works. I found an issue with what you stated and you're trying to pull me into a completely different point that I never addressed. So until you actually engage with my comment, then consider me no longer replying to you. Address verse 23, or don't bother replying.

ralliann · May 12, 2026

SabbathBlessings said:
Are you claiming there are two promised lands that God gave His people. Can you please quote this from Scripture.

This is games. Are you claiming Abraham is not raised from the grave to inherit the land promised him?
Does this tell Abraham he will be dead....
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

Does this speak to all his seed? Or the 4th generation?
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Are you claiming there is no difference between this world and this life, and the next world the next life?

SabbathBlessings said:
So are you claiming God gave their land back without obedience can you please demonstrate this from Scripture.

Games again. Are you claiming they were not punished?

SabbathBlessings said:
Many never received their inheritance because of disobedience

Is this not the same as lacking faith?

SabbathBlessings said:
Eze 20:15 So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands, 16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

Right! Can God be an unjust judge? Shall he not do right?
Israel doing as the nations did blasphemed God as the judge of all the earth. They were to destroy nations for what they themselves were doing.....

Gen 18:23 ¶ And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

SabbathBlessings said:
They lost their land again to Babylon because of disobedience

2 King 24:20 Zedekiah rebelled… and thus Judah was carried away out of his land
2 King 25:21 So Judah was carried away out of their land.

Jer 25:8-11 Because they did not obey, “this whole land shall be a desolation… and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”

Only a small remnant who obeyed God came back after they were captured.

Today there is still a remnant who obey God and His commandments Rev12:17 and who will receive the inheritance Rev22:14

God does keep His promises, but it doesn't mean we are entitled to the promises when we rebel, just as many before us who professed the name of God but didn't do what God asked.

So we have an earthly this worldly covenant operating here....Same is true today IMO. They are back in the land, because of God's righteousness in keeping his oath concerning THEM.....While this world exists, so to will the earthly nation.

ralliann · May 12, 2026

SabbathBlessings said:
You keep changing the direction of this discussion and have not addressed any of the Scriptures provided.

No, you attempt to put words in my mouth.

SabbathBlessings said:
You have made it sound like the promise through Abraham on their inheritance of the land is a different promise land than the Israelites received - can you show this through Scripture?

I have done that. But again you attempt to reframe it instead. And continue to do so rather than addressing the scriptures I quoted. Genesis 15 speaks concerning the fourth generation of Abrahams seed. It also clealy states he would be dead. In fact Joseph knew this to be so as he took an oath of the COI to take his bones with them when the fulfillment of that promise occured.

SabbathBlessings said:
I asked if you can provide any Scripture where the Israelites were able to keep their promise land and be disobedient to God's commandments? You have not demonstrated this. The Bible clearly shows the opposite.

You now seem to indicate that Abraham did not keep the commandments but walked by faith. Why do you think faith means disobeying God and His commandments when you even referenced Abraham did keep God's commandments Gen26:5. By faith Abraham obeyed God Heb 11:8. Faith establishes the law, not voids it Rom3:31

I think we are getting too far off the topic of this thread.

Now you want to act like this conversation you are creating is off topic?
How is this for ya?
Acts 7:1 ¶ Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.

ralliann · May 12, 2026

Delvianna said:
My argument shows context in literally the next verse. So there's no point in going on with the rest when I'm showing you that you have an error. Bypassing the error to continue with the rest of what you said, is pointless without addressing the error.

Unless you can frame the conversation?

1 Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.

What is being renewed?

Delvianna · May 12, 2026

ralliann said:
Unless you can frame the conversation?

1 Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.

What is being renewed?

This is acts, Not Jeremiah 31.

Seriously guys, why is it so difficult to address what I've addressed and stop bringing up random other things. If you aren't going to bother to reply to what I've said and stick on the point that I've made, I'm not going to run around the houses on random other points you feel the need to bring up. This is just getting ridiculous.

SabbathBlessings · May 12, 2026

ralliann said:
No, you attempt to put words in my mouth.

I have done that. But again you attempt to reframe it instead. And continue to do so rather than addressing the scriptures I quoted. Genesis 15 speaks concerning the fourth generation of Abrahams seed. It also clealy states he would be dead. In fact Joseph knew this to be so as he took an oath of the COI to take his bones with them when the fulfillment of that promise occured.

Now you want to act like this conversation you are creating is off topic?
How is this for ya?
Acts 7:1 ¶ Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.

I do not see Scripture separating Abraham’s promised land from the land Israel later inherited. Joshua 21:43 explicitly says God gave Israel the land He swore to give to their fathers. So it seems the biblical picture is not two different lands, but one promise with both a historical fulfillment in Canaan and a greater ultimate fulfillment in the kingdom of God, yet to come. Rev22:14

New not renewed Covenant

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