• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Glorious Wedding of Faith and Science

Status
Not open for further replies.

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
48,377
50,774
Los Angeles Area
✟1,130,627.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Neither the purpose nor the morality are present within the hammer.
There are large bodies of knowledge about the philosophy of science and the ethics of science. They get along just fine without any recourse to a putative 'religion of science'.

It doesn't take an appeal to the divine (or much smarts at all) to understand why scientists developed a strain of rice with beta carotene to combat vitamin A deficiency, rather than developing a strain of rice that produces cyanide.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,857,045
52,816
Guam
✟5,224,420.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In relation to the topic? You'll have to spell it out to me, if you want me to consider it.

God brings faith and science together by gifting us scientists and knowledgeable men and women who have an ability to "pick up on their crafts" faster than others.

From AI Overview:

A gifted person demonstrates outstanding aptitude, competence, or potential for high performance in areas like intellectual, creative, artistic, or leadership capacity. They learn quickly, process information deeply, and often require specialized educational or social support to fully develop their unique abilities.

Key Characteristics and Traits

Advanced Cognition: Rapid learning pace, exceptional memory, and high-level reasoning skills.

Curiosity & Complexity: Deep interest in complex concepts, abstract thinking, and asking probing questions.

Creativity: High ability for original ideas, problem-solving, and seeing multiple perspectives.

Intense Sensitivities: Heightened emotional intensity, sensitivity, and sometimes perfectionism.

Passion: Intense focus on specific interests, which may change over time.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Reconstruction 3 will come
Mar 11, 2017
25,835
18,663
56
USA
✟485,401.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
With respect brother these are just specific examples that don’t address the higher level of abstraction in both Hans’ claims nor in my refutation. I’d agree completely that in reality one can find atheist scientists, or non-Christian scientists, or anti-science believers - but these do not speak to science’s need for a purpose and an ethic, both of which can only come from outside of science itself.
None of which, even if fully agreed to, would necessitate "religion" as a purpose or ethic.
Put a hammer on a table. It requires external purpose to be picked up and used. And how it’s used, to build a doghouse vs. to cave in someone’s skull, requires external morality. Neither the purpose nor the morality are present within the hammer.
The coffeemaker I do not own only exists for a purpose external to itself -- to make morning coffee. It possess no self-motivation.
I’m sure Weinberg was purposeful in his practicing of science. And I’m sure he was likewise ethical. He was raised and educated in a deeply Judeo-Christian landscape that valued learning, teaching, advancing our knowledge of reality, etc.
I see, we are going to just assume Weinberg was ethical and purposeful and then assign that to his culture. I also see you "Judeo-"ed the Christian "basis" for science as his name "looks Jewish". [It looks German to me. I knew people with that name who were not Jewish.] That American culture he comes from contains a lot of ethical considerations that don't come from Jewish or Christian theology. In school I don't remember getting any of those explicitly "J/C" morals or ethics, but I do remember ones taken from Confucius and Aesop.
If one says “No, he rejected all of that and sat in a closet and formed his own ethics and purpose from pure thought” then he still inescapably held to some kind of teleological and ethical positions internal to him and external to science.
An odd thing to say.
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Site Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,921
8,091
.
Visit site
✟1,362,024.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
IF E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff... All mass is basically cooled plasma. C2 in the denominator makes for a lot of energy within the atom.

I have 30 years experience with spectrometers including atomic absorbant, ICP plasma, and optical emissions spectrometry.. To find the concentration of an element you must first turn it into plasma and then measure the unique intensity of the emissions or absorbances. Each spectrometer will have a prism to separate the wavelength of light. All of this is M=E/c2 put into practice. One day God will put the whole show into practice as he turns the entire mass of the universe back into plasma energy...

The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
1,417
566
Kristianstad
✟43,226.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
One can value all those things without religion, so what is religion needed for?

If you only knew.

Hint: Abrahamic Covenant

In relation to the topic? You'll have to spell it out to me, if you want me to consider it.

God brings faith and science together by gifting us scientists and knowledgeable men and women who have an ability to "pick up on their crafts" faster than others.

What is your point? I get the loosely implied definition of gifted, what are you trying to convey here?
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Reconstruction 3 will come
Mar 11, 2017
25,835
18,663
56
USA
✟485,401.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
IF E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff... All mass is basically cooled plasma. C2 in the denominator makes for a lot of energy within the atom.

I have 30 years experience with spectrometers including atomic absorbant, ICP plasma, and optical emissions spectrometry.. To find the concentration of an element you must first turn it into plasma and then measure the unique intensity of the emissions or absorbances. Each spectrometer will have a prism to separate the wavelength of light. All of this is M=E/c2 put into practice. One day God will put the whole show into practice as he turns the entire mass of the universe back into plasma energy...

The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10
You are on the wrong thread. Your failures to understand mass-energy equivalence is not relevant or on topic.
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
16,399
8,052
32
Wales
✟473,382.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
IF E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff... All mass is basically cooled plasma. C2 in the denominator makes for a lot of energy within the atom.

I have 30 years experience with spectrometers including atomic absorbant, ICP plasma, and optical emissions spectrometry.. To find the concentration of an element you must first turn it into plasma and then measure the unique intensity of the emissions or absorbances. Each spectrometer will have a prism to separate the wavelength of light. All of this is M=E/c2 put into practice. One day God will put the whole show into practice as he turns the entire mass of the universe back into plasma energy...

The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

No. Just no.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,857,045
52,816
Guam
✟5,224,420.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
IF E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) ---

Basic algebra.

Making this eternal stuff...

God makes it eternal -- not algebra.

All mass is basically cooled plasma.

Only on paper.

C2 in the denominator makes for a lot of energy within the atom.

Put there by God himself.

I have 30 years experience with spectrometers including atomic absorbant, ICP plasma, and optical emissions spectrometry..

Nice.

I have zero.

To find the concentration of an element you must first turn it into plasma and then measure the unique intensity of the emissions or absorbances.

Great.

Each spectrometer will have a prism to separate the wavelength of light.

Neat.

All of this is M=E/c2 put into practice.

Okay?

One day God will put the whole show into practice as he turns the entire mass of the universe back into plasma energy...

"Back in plasma energy" assumes it was all plasma energy in the first place -- which it wasn't.

Mass came into existence ex nihilo and fully functional, without going through any steps.

The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

Yes, indeed.

Per Colossians the credit for the strong nuclear force belongs to Jesus.

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

God operates on a timetable, and when the time comes, Jesus is going to revoke the strong nuclear force, and the universe as we know it is going to go bye-bye.
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Site Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,921
8,091
.
Visit site
✟1,362,024.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
IF E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff... All mass is basically cooled plasma. C2 in the denominator makes for a lot of energy within the atom.

I have 30 years experience with spectrometers including atomic absorbant, ICP plasma, and optical emissions spectrometry.. To find the concentration of an element you must first turn it into plasma and then measure the unique intensity of the emissions or absorbances. Each spectrometer will have a prism to separate the wavelength of light. All of this is M=E/c2 put into practice. One day God will put the whole show into practice as he turns the entire mass of the universe back into plasma energy...

The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10
Give me the ability to split heavy elements and I will show you the power of c2 in the denominator. In the meantime just look up at our sun!
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,857,045
52,816
Guam
✟5,224,420.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What is your point? I get the loosely implied definition of gifted, what are you trying to convey here?

That your statement here ...

One can value all those things without religion, so what is religion needed for?

... is wrong.

And what is your point about "loosely implied definition of gifted" supposed to mean?

That was a pretty thorough definition, if you ask me.
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
16,399
8,052
32
Wales
✟473,382.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
Give me the ability to split heavy elements and I will show you the power of c2 in the denominator. In the meantime just look up at our sun!

Neither statement has anything to do with the thread topic.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,857,045
52,816
Guam
✟5,224,420.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You are on the wrong thread. Your failures to understand mass-energy equivalence is not relevant or on topic.
No. Just no.

If his post is wrong, I fail to see where it is.

Algebra would disagree with you two.

The only thing I think he is wrong about is the idea of mass having existed as plasma before it became mass.

Thus he is mathematically correct, but theologically wrong.
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
16,399
8,052
32
Wales
✟473,382.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
If his post is wrong, I fail to see where it is.

Algebra would disagree with you two.

The only thing I think he is wrong about is the idea of mass having existed as plasma before it became mass.

Thus he is mathematically correct, but theologically wrong.

E=mc² isn't just algebra where anything in it can substituted for anything else. It's a clear and specific formula that applies to one thing and one thing only. It's not our fault that he's unable to understand that fact and applies it to anything and everything he wants to.

He doesn't know what he's talking about, it's not relevant to the thread at all, and you don't know what you're talking about either.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
1,417
566
Kristianstad
✟43,226.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
That your statement here ...



... is wrong.

So why can't you value those things without religion? Your assertion is directly contradicted by experience

And what is your point about "loosely implied definition of gifted" supposed to mean?

That was a pretty thorough definition, if you ask me.

You seem to say that a gifted person is one that picks up things quickly, but you didn't say it explicitly. Does it apply to all things? How fast does it have to be, in order to say that someone is gifted? It is a sloppy definition.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Reconstruction 3 will come
Mar 11, 2017
25,835
18,663
56
USA
✟485,401.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Give me the ability to split heavy elements and I will show you the power of c2 in the denominator. In the meantime just look up at our sun!
The Sun does not work by the splitting of heavy elements and this is not relevant to the thread. Please stop.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,857,045
52,816
Guam
✟5,224,420.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
E=mc² isn't just algebra where anything in it can substituted for anything else.

I'm going to disagree with you here.

It's a clear and specific formula that applies to one thing and one thing only.

But it is also basic algebra as well.

It's not our fault that he's unable to understand that fact and applies it to anything and everything he wants to.

Again I'm going to disagree.

If it works one way, it should work another.

The only thing I see wrong is his assumption that it existed as plasma before becoming mass.

He doesn't know what he's talking about,

Theologically, no.

Mathematically, yes.

it's not relevant to the thread at all,

It is an attempt to wed science and faith.

I'm sorry you don't see that.

and you don't know what you're talking about either.

I never do here. :rolleyes:
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
16,399
8,052
32
Wales
✟473,382.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
I'm going to disagree with you here.



But it is also basic algebra as well.



Again I'm going to disagree.

If it works one way, it should work another.

The only thing I see wrong is his assumption that it existed as plasma before becoming mass.



Theologically, no.

Mathematically, yes.



It is an attempt to wed science and faith.

I'm sorry you don't see that.



I never do here. :rolleyes:

I'm just going to repeat what I said, since it's really the only answer I can give here:

He doesn't know what he's talking about, it's not relevant to the thread at all, and you don't know what you're talking about either.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,857,045
52,816
Guam
✟5,224,420.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So why can't you value those things without religion?

Um ... if God didn't exist, where would these gifts come from?

Your assertion is directly contradicted by experience.

Whatever that meant.

You seem to say that a gifted person is one that picks up things quickly, but you didn't say it explicitly.

Post 243 please.

"God brings faith and science together by gifting us scientists and knowledgeable men and women who have an ability to pick up on their crafts faster than others."

By "faster than others" I meant "quickly."

Does it apply to all things? How fast does it have to be, in order to say that someone is gifted? It is a sloppy definition.

Have a nice day.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.