Reasons for thinking that no one wrote notes while Jesus and the apostles were teaching?

Groundskeeper · May 9, 2026

What are some reasons for people thinking that it's possible that no one wrote any notes about what Jesus and the apostles were saying and doing and what was happening around them, while it was happening, or that those notes were not recopied as needed, until the gospels were written. It doesn't seem possible at all to me that no one was writing notes, or that they weren't recopied until the gospels were written.

Groundskeeper · May 9, 2026

Reading and Writing in the Time of Jesus, by Alan Millard, argues that written reports about Jesus could have been made during his lifetime and that some among his audiences and followers may very well have kept notes, first-hand documents that the Evangelists could weave into their narratives. Here's a list of arguments that I've found against that:
- Low literacy rate.
- Dominance of oral tradition.
- Weakness of archaeological evidence.
- Writing not mentioned in first-century traditions.
- Rabbinic prohibition against writing oral law.

If anyone can think of or find any other arguments against Millard's view, please post them.

Larniavc · May 9, 2026

Groundskeeper said:
What are some reasons for people thinking that it's possible that no one wrote any notes about what Jesus and the apostles were saying and doing and what was happening around them,

They were illiterate.

David Lamb · May 9, 2026

Larniavc said:
They were illiterate.

Plus the fact that even for those who could write, it was at that time a laborious process. The idea that His hearers could bring vellum, ink and pens with them to wherever Jesus was preaching seems unrealistic, to say the least. (They didn't have ball point pens, pencils, or notebooks back then).

Maria Billingsley · May 9, 2026

Groundskeeper said:
What are some reasons for people thinking that it's possible that no one wrote any notes about what Jesus and the apostles were saying and doing and what was happening around them, while it was happening, or that those notes were not recopied as needed, until the gospels were written. It doesn't seem possible at all to me that no one was writing notes, or that they weren't recopied until the gospels were written.

Oral transmission is how it was preserved not note taking.

Blessings.

Larniavc · May 9, 2026

Maria Billingsley said:
Oral transmission is how it was preserved not note taking.

Blessings.

Also putting oral tradition to paper was frowned on.

Maria Billingsley · May 9, 2026

Groundskeeper said:
What are some reasons for people thinking that it's possible that no one wrote any notes about what Jesus and the apostles were saying and doing and what was happening around them, while it was happening, or that those notes were not recopied as needed, until the gospels were written. It doesn't seem possible at all to me that no one was writing notes, or that they weren't recopied until the gospels were written.

I would also like to add Paul's comment on the matter.

Galatians 1:11–12
"But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ."

tdidymas · May 9, 2026

Groundskeeper said:
What are some reasons for people thinking that it's possible that no one wrote any notes about what Jesus and the apostles were saying and doing and what was happening around them, while it was happening, or that those notes were not recopied as needed, until the gospels were written. It doesn't seem possible at all to me that no one was writing notes, or that they weren't recopied until the gospels were written.

Even today most people in church only listen to the sermon and don't take any notes. Why is it so hard to believe that people poor economically and likely illiterate had no means to carry pen, ink, and paper to write notes?

Jesus told His disciples, "when the Holy Spirit comes, He will bring to your remembrance all I have spoken to you." So even though it was more than 10 years later that the first writings were done, the repetitions of the many thousands of sermons and stories told by the apostles, along with testimonies of Christians who were eyewitnesses of Jesus, the things written down for us in the NT are things we can trust in as accurate. They certainly had the OT scriptures to trigger their memory on what Jesus spoke, since everything Jesus said was either a quote from OT scriptures, or was derived from it.

DragonFox91 · May 9, 2026

I believe it's b/c a lot of it was very oral back then. For example they knew the OT by memory. It was drilled into you so much, they knew if you missed a word when reciting it back.

But I believe there were those who wrote notes.

It's possible a lot of the Gospels were assembled off notes people took down. Apparently they interviewed people writing them. I'm sure at least a couple they interviewed took some notes. There's even a theory Mark was written based off earlier notes.

It was oral, but there were still scribes back then, people who wrote for a living, writing isn't new.

Remember: the Gospels were written down. These were 'educated' people. By 'educated', I mean they valued writing it down. As people who valued writing it down, I'm sure people who had that same value took notes.

jacks · May 9, 2026

It wouldn't surprise me if someone "took notes" or at least wrote down things when they got home. Unfortunately, whatever they wrote is probably long lost and even if found wouldn't have the weight of scripture.

ViaCrucis · May 9, 2026

Groundskeeper said:
What are some reasons for people thinking that it's possible that no one wrote any notes about what Jesus and the apostles were saying and doing and what was happening around them, while it was happening, or that those notes were not recopied as needed, until the gospels were written. It doesn't seem possible at all to me that no one was writing notes, or that they weren't recopied until the gospels were written.

I have no idea if anyone was "taking notes". The generally accepted view is that the Gospels are rooted in oral traditions, based on first-hand experiences. Whether anyone was "taking notes" is unknowable one way or the other; but Christian tradition holds firm that what Jesus said and did was remembered by His closest followers, and they either wrote, or others wrote, what they heard.

As for the Apostles, we have first-hand accounts from them in the form of epistles. We also have the account of St. Luke in the Acts of the Apostles, which presents itself as the sequel to the Gospel of Luke, and is to be taken seriously as a report of the apostolic work (aka "acts") in the earliest years of Christianity.

2PhiloVoid · May 9, 2026

Groundskeeper said:
What are some reasons for people thinking that it's possible that no one wrote any notes about what Jesus and the apostles were saying and doing and what was happening around them, while it was happening, or that those notes were not recopied as needed, until the gospels were written. It doesn't seem possible at all to me that no one was writing notes, or that they weren't recopied until the gospels were written.

Because Bart Ehrman said they didn't and that should settle it (??) And, there are no scholars and have never been any other scholars who have ever suggested that the disciples of Jesus in the 1st century could or would write any statements down (??)

Besides, it's not as if wax tablet notebooks or small sheets of parchment would have been used by anyone to write down even a sentence or two of statements from anyone else. People in the 1st century just didn't do that sort of thing. Did they have a Walmart where they could mosey in and buy a cheap ream of paper and pens? Of course not. It's preposterous to even consider as such.

Groundskeeper · May 10, 2026

2PhiloVoid said:
Because Bart Ehrman said they didn't and that should settle it (??) And, there are no scholars and have never been any other scholars who have ever suggested that the disciples of Jesus in the 1st century could or would write any statements down (??)

Besides, it's not as if wax tablet notebooks or small sheets of parchment would have been used by anyone to write down even a sentence or two of statements from anyone else. People in the 1st century just didn't do that sort of thing. Did they have a Walmart where they could mosey in and buy a cheap ream of paper and pens? Of course not. It's preposterous to even consider as such.

Thank you.

I've read all the counterarguments that I could find to what Millard and others have said about writing practices at the beginning of the first century, and none of them are actually counterarguments. They are all irrelevant to the question and/or actually conceding that almost certainly some Jesus disciples could write. Also, I found out that "oral only" in the language of Bible scholars doesn't actually mean oral only. It means mostly oral with some written memory aids.

Groundskeeper · May 10, 2026

jacks said:
It wouldn't surprise me if someone "took notes" or at least wrote down things when they got home. Unfortunately, whatever they wrote is probably long lost and even if found wouldn't have the weight of scripture.

I'm thinking that some disciples were writing notes all the time that Jesus and the apostles were teaching, that those notes were recopied as needed until the gospels were written, and that those are the Q, L, M and other sources that scholars have been imagining.

David Lamb · May 10, 2026

Groundskeeper said:
I'm thinking that some disciples were writing notes all the time that Jesus and the apostles were teaching, that those notes were recopied as needed until the gospels were written, and that those are the Q, L, M and other sources that scholars have been imagining.

Yet Jesus didn't say that they would be reminded of His teaching by looking at their notes. Rather, He said:

(Joh 14:25) "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
(Joh 14:26) But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

2PhiloVoid · May 10, 2026

Groundskeeper said:
I'm thinking that some disciples were writing notes all the time that Jesus and the apostles were teaching, that those notes were recopied as needed until the gospels were written, and that those are the Q, L, M and other sources that scholars have been imagining.

Setting my facetious derision of ultra-skeptics to the side, here's something to think about that I'm not sure I've seen any scholar mention: If women like Joanna were a part of the 'resource department' supporting Jesus' ministry, what would have been the likelihood that at least the occasional amanuensis or set of writing materials could have been provided by which one could listen to and then transcribe anything that Jesus (and/or His selected disciples) might have ever said? Add to this the possibility that not everyone following Jesus was by necessity illiterate, uneducated and steeped in poverty.

History of education in ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I have my own opinion on the answer to this question of mine, however historically considered and tentative it may be.

timf · May 10, 2026

It doesn't seem possible at all to me that no one was writing notes, or that they weren't recopied until the gospels were written.

Food, fuel, and tools were probably the most trafficked commodities in the market place. Paper is very hard to make and without much demand, would not be very available. Additionally, before the ball point pen and graphite pencil, writing was done with ink which does not do well on the move.

Eph_3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

God is able to reveal to the writers of the bible an accurate account of what was said.

Reasons for thinking that no one wrote notes while Jesus and the apostles were teaching?

Active Member

Active Member

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Er Victus

Confessional Lutheran

'Cuz Mary Shelley was right !!

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

'Cuz Mary Shelley was right !!

Regular Member

Similar threads