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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?
- Thread starter Hentenza
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One of the sabbaths? And that makes sense to you? You do know that σάββατον is also translated as week or between sabbaths, right? Example Matt. 28:1.
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Then show me verses where the Christians did other than to evangelize the Jews.
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Soyeong
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God's character traits are eternal, so everything that the Law of Moses teaches us about how to embody God's character traits are eternally valid. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalm 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalm 119:160), and the only way that instructions for how to embody God's righteousness could become obsolete would be if God's righteousness were to first become obsolete. For instance, being a doer of charity has always been and will always be a way to know God through embodying His righteousness.
God has not commanded anything that is not in accordance with walking in the Spirit, but rather God's character traits are the fruits of the Spirit and His law is His instructions for how to embody His character traits, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27). The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His glory (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in the Spirit/how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses. For example, love is one of the fruits of the Spirit and everything in the Law of Moses is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, so the Spirit leading us to love is not leading us to do something that isn't in accordance with the Law of Moses.
In Galatians 5:16-23, Paul contrasted the desires of the flesh with the desires of the Spirit and everything that he listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Law of Moses while all of the fruits of the Spirit are character traits of God that the Law of Moses was given in order to teach us how to embody. The desires of the flesh causing us not to do the good that we want to do is how Paul described his struggle with the law of sin in Romans 7-8. In Romans 8:2-7, Paul said that the Law of the Spirit has freed us from the law of and dead, that Jesus freed us from sin so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirement of the law, and he contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God, so the law that we are not under when we are led by the Spirit is the law of sin, not the Law of God. The Law of Moses was given by God and the Spirit is God, so it would be contradictory to interpret Galatians 5:18 as referring to the Law of Moses as if we are not led by God when we are led by God.
If we have the freedom from the Law of Moses, then we have the freedom to become doers of what it reveals to be sin, but if we don't have that freedom, then we don't have the freedom from the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses was never given as a means of justification, so the fact that we are not required to obey it in order to earn our justification as the result does not mean that we are not required to obey it for the reasons for which it was given. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this is what it means to be guided by grace and the Spirit and this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.
The works of the flesh are in transgression of the Law of Moses, not sin obedience to it. The Spirit leading us to refrain from committing adultery is leading us to obey the legal requirement of the Law of Moses to refrain from committing adultery.
The Mosaic Law has so many laws in order to teach us how to connect with God in every aspect of our lives, so the Spirit leading us to have a dynamic moment-by-moment relationship with God is in accordance with following his instructions for how to do that found in the Mosaic Law, not in contrast with it.
If were parts of the Mosaic Law that are not part of fruitful living, then fruitful living would be lawlessness, but if fruitful living is in accordance with the mosaic Law to the point that it is not lawlessness, then it is not free from the Mosaic Law.
The intent of the Mosaic Law is in accordance with the Mosaic Law.
Those who are in Christ have a renewed nature and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6), acting out of a renewed nature does not mean that we are not also acting out of a legal obligation.
In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and wring it on our minds. In Psalm 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth. If someone is interpreting the Bible in a way that turns it against following Christ's example of obedience to what God has commanded and against following truth, then they just might be the ones who are actually deceived.
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Soyeong
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Christ spent the vast majority of his ministry teaching Jews to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and in Matthew 28:16-20, he commissioned his disciples to teach to the nations everything that he taught them. Being a Christian is about following what Christ taught, not about refusing to follow him.
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Yep. Jesus is the only person that ever kept the law perfectly which He was the only person to ever fulfill it (complete it). Jesus did not teach the apostles that they had to keep the law.
“But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated to them. And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.””
Matthew 28:16-20 NASB2020
Matthew 28:16-20 (NASB2020) - But the eleven disciples proceeded | YouVersion
But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated to them. And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to the
bible.com
1. Where did Jesus command or taught His disciples to keep the law?
2. Where did Jesus command or taught His disciples to keep the Jewish sabbath?
Jesus never taught what you claim. Jesus fulfilled the law (complete) and became the Lord of the sabbath. Jesus entire earthly life was calculated to keep, and complete, the law of God in his people’s place. Jesus embodied in himself everything the law demanded. Jesus gave His disciples two love commandments of which the whole law and the prophets hang and Paul makes it clear that the Christian is not under the law.
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Soyeong
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According to Galatians 5:14, everyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so it refers to something that countless people have done and should continue to do in perpetuity, not to something unique that only Jesus did, though only Jesus kept the law perfectly.
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Jesus also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). So Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and Christianity is about following what he taught.
The whole point of a rabbi/disciple relationship is to is for the disciples to learn from their rabbi how to obey the Mosaic Law by memorizing their teachings and by following their example and them go out to make their own disciples when they are ready, which is what Jesus was commissioning them to do by telling them to teach the nations all that he commanded them, which included keeping the Sabbath.“But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated to them. And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.””
Matthew 28:16-20 NASB2020
Matthew 28:16-20 (NASB2020) - But the eleven disciples proceeded | YouVersion
But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated to them. And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to thebible.com
1. Where did Jesus command or taught His disciples to keep the law?
2. Where did Jesus command or taught His disciples to keep the Jewish sabbath?
"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made know by the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so Jesus fulfilled the law throughout the rest of Matthew 5 by correcting what the people had heard being said and by teaching how to correctly obey it. The Mosaic Law is not something that is completed in the sense that if we do something that expresses our love for our neighbor, then we have completed our obligation to it and no longer need to love our neighbor, but rather we need to keep following Christ's example of fulfilling it in perpetuity. Where does the Bible say that Jesus completed the Mosaic Law in our place. In Titus 2:11-13, it describes the content of our gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is part of the content of His gift of salvation, but if Jesus had completed it for instead, then he would have been removing the content of our gift of salvation from us, so thankfully he did not do that. Indeed, Jesus embodied everything that the Mosaic Law demanded and as his followers we are told to follow his example.
Everything in the Mosaic Law is either in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit idolatry, murder, adultery, theft, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Mosaic Law. Someone who was correctly living in obedience to the greatest two commandments would be indistinguishable from someone who was correctly living in obedience to the rest of the Mosaic Law because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow.
Paul described the Law of God as being the good that he wanted to do and the law of sin as being what was hindering him from doing the good that he wanted to do. In Romans 6:14, Paul described the law that we are not under as being a law where sin had dominion over him, which is clearly not describing the good that he wanted to do, but rather that is the role of the law of sin. If we were not under the Mosaic Law, then we would be free to become doers of what it reveals to be sin and sin would have dominion over us, which is the opposite of what Paul said. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so we are still under it but are not under the law of sin. In Romans 6:16, Paul contrasted these two direction by saying that we are slaves to the one that we obey, either the law of sin, which leads to death, or obedience to the Law of God, which leads to righteousness. Moreover, everything else in Romans 6 speaks in favor of obedience to the Mosaic Law and against sin.
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I already mentioned errant translations.
Contrary to popular belief, a week does not elapse from sundown to midnight.
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(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.
(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.
(CLV) Jb 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz. Job was his name. This man was flawless and upright, fearing Elohim and keeping away from evil.
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His whole ministry was about repentance to Yah's torah, just like Moses, and all of the Prophets, including John the Baptist
Here are some glaring examples of his passion for ministering repentance to Yah's torah.
(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.
(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.
(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 7:21
"Not everyone saying to Me `Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 7:22
Many will be declaring to Me in that day, `Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?'
(CLV) Mt 7:23
And then shall I be avowing to them that `I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of lawlessness!'
Every time you see the word law in the Bible, you can replace it with the Hebrew word torah.
Law is a very poor translation of the word torah.
A much better translation would be the word direction.
These are Yah's directions to his children. By following them, we move in his direction, or walk in his way.
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(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.
Neither heaven nor earth have passed by.
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The real fact is that God has never required Gentiles to observe any day. Since that is a fact, where do those who believe we must observe days get their information? Why did God give the World the new and better covenant if it, as day observers claim, the new is just the old warmed over?
If these questions cannot be answered, then what is the justification for posting something that God never intended to be part of being a Christian?
If these questions cannot be answered, then what is the justification for posting something that God never intended to be part of being a Christian?
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One would then have to throw the rest of the Ten out the window as well.
If have other gods, or make graven images or take His name in vain are not binding for the Gentile, then we are free to worship other gods, practice idolatry and take the Lord's name in vain, all without consequence. Likewise, we are free to dishonor our parents, murder anyone we want, commit adultery, steal what we want, bear false witness and covet.
- We know this is not the case, because scripture keeps telling us to keep the commandments of God.
- The worship issue of the end time requires that we keep the first four worship commandments. Why? Satan has a counterfeit. There will be two choices concerning worship, and the first four commandments are front and center.
- Worship the beast and his image; other gods, idolatry, taking the Lord's name in vain, false sabbath foreshadowed by blue laws. See Revelation 13.
- Worship God the Creator; have no other gods, make no graven images, do not take the Lord's name in vain, Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. See Revelation 14:6-12.
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None of the AIs know squat!!!
The early Church did not have the impedement of AI to contend with. Humanity is getting stupider and stupider as time marches on. It won't be long and we won't be able to wipe our noses (and other places) unless instructed by AI. I grieve for mankind and the Church subjecting themselves to a power other than God and His Word. My AI is better than your AI. The new penis envy?
Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.
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LOL!
I had already come to that conclusion in my research. AI scans the common narrative, and spits out a summary.
Yep, garbage in, garbage out.
If our predecessors hadn't tested the common narrative; most would still subscribe to a flat earth.
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Wait just a second Freth. Gentiles have never been under the Ten Commandments. They were given exclusively to Israel. Why do you hang your faith on the ministry of death? 2Cor3:7 The Ten Commandments didn't even include the greatest Law ever given to mankind, love.
God has given man many laws besides the Ten Commandments. If your foot is still in the Old Covenant laws, then how do you cull any of them? Man has not been given any authority to cull even one jot of all the laws God has given, if you do not believe Jesus fulfilled and brought to an end all of them. Matt5:16-17
Yes, there does remain my rest for everyone, but it does not mean it is a day; it is our rest in Jesus. The Jews were well aware of the Sabbath requirement, and rested every Sabbath, but Hebrews says they never entered His Rest. It would be a conundrum to say the verses were explaining that they should rest on the Sabbath. Again, our rest is in Jesus, not in a day.
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Hark wrote: We already covered this here.
Eph 2 in no way asks Gentiles to observe the Sabbath. Your CLR version creates a controversy. "Many scholars and mainstream Christians argue that these changes can alter the theological nuance of verses, potentially emphasizing a "Jewish-only" identity for the early church or downplaying the universal scope of the New Testament message." Leo AI
Eph2: NIV
11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,
Ehh2 is not referring to dogma and Talmud. It refers to the Torah. Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. He brought the prophecies about His coming to an end and also did the same for the Law. Gal 3:19 tells us the same thing as does many more passages in the New and better covenant.
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Referencing poor translations does not validate the dogma that Yah's eternal torah is nullified.
Clearly the Greek text shows us the it was not Yah's Torah that was nullified. It was the nomon of the entolOn in dogmasin that was nullified.
dog·ma ˈdȯg-mə
plural dogmas also dogmata ˈdȯg-mə-tə
1a: something held as an established opinion
especially: a definite authoritative tenet
b: a code of such tenets
c: a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dogma
Yah's torah is not dogma. Dogma is an invention of man.
Yah never commanded division within the assembly.
Again:
(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian (FOREVER) statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.
I don't know how Paul could have made it any more clear that Yah's torah is not nullified.
(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.
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