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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

We must do the commandments in 1John 3:20-24 to bear fruit

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BelieveItOarKnot

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fli said:
In Matt 32:39, Mk 14: 36 and Lk 14: 42 Jesus clearly expresses there is a difference of wills between what His Father wanted and what He wanted. It only takes 2 witnesses to establish the truth.
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Yes, The Father and the Son, the Two witnesses, confirmed.

The Son willed nothing apart from His Father.

You read division of wills where there is none to be had.

And your position then uses that basic error to justify your SELF will when in fact there is no such thing as self justifications or self works based salvation to start with.
 
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fli

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BelieveItOarKnot said:
Yes, The Father and the Son, the Two witnesses, confirmed.

The Son willed nothing apart from His Father.

You read division of wills where there is none to be had.

And your position then uses that basic error to justify your SELF will when in fact there is no such thing as self justifications or self works based salvation to start with.
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Is your position that the three gospel writers did not record Jesus' words and actions accurately? The 3 witnesses that I cited are Mathew, Mark who wrote Peter's account and Luke who wrote Paul's account given to him by Jesus' Himself. I choose to believe scripture, not you or whoever taught you to ignore scripture. I am not justifying myself. I posted scripture that clearly states Jesus and the Father had different wills in the event cited.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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fli said:
Is your position that the three gospel writers did not record Jesus' words and actions accurately?
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Nope. Never said such a thing.

Obviously the item in question here, as usual, is hearing.

Maybe a question you could ask yourself is, is Jesus God?
fli said:
The 3 witnesses that I cited are Mathew, Mark who wrote Peter's account and Luke who wrote Paul's account given to him by Jesus' Himself. I choose to believe scripture,
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Everyone claims that. Doesn't mean they're right.

In fact any honest reader should know they are always part wrong, regardless.
fli said:
not you or whoever taught you to ignore scripture.
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You hear conflict between God and God the Son. I don't. I hear the Son aligning with the Will of the Father, not a unilateral motion.
fli said:
I am not justifying myself. I posted scripture that clearly states Jesus and the Father had different wills in the event cited.
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You're simply parroting a surface analysis without much thought put to it.
 
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fli

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BelieveItOarKnot said:
Nope. Never said such a thing.

Obviously the item in question here, as usual, is hearing.

Maybe a question you could ask yourself is, is Jesus God?
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You have been denying their testimony of Jesus so you are denying thy wrote the truth.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. NKJV

I know Jesus is God. I have confessed Him as my Lord and savior.

I also know that He was fully man also and as a Man his will was different that His Father's will, yet He obeyed the Father. Because He was obedient, He could identify with my sinfulness and be my advocate in Heaven.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Everyone claims that. Doesn't mean they're right.

In fact any honest reader should know they are always part wrong, regardless.
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I accept their writing as scripture.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
You hear conflict between God and God the Son. I don't. I hear the Son aligning with the Will of the Father, not a unilateral motion.

You're simply parroting a surface analysis without much thought put to it.
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1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. NKJV

I know that the gospel writers have shown me Jesus. I know that I abide in love because I abide in God.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. NKJV

And because I believe in Jesus His blood justifies me without me doing any work for that justification. I have eternal life because I believe in Jesu
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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fli said:
You have been denying their testimony of Jesus so you are denying thy wrote the truth.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. NKJV

I know Jesus is God. I have confessed Him as my Lord and savior.

I also know that He was fully man also and as a Man his will was different that His Father's will, yet He obeyed the Father. Because He was obedient, He could identify with my sinfulness and be my advocate in Heaven.



I accept their writing as scripture.



1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. NKJV

I know that the gospel writers have shown me Jesus. I know that I abide in love because I abide in God.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. NKJV

And because I believe in Jesus His blood justifies me without me doing any work for that justification. I have eternal life because I believe in Jesu
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I think we've wrenched this out as far as necessary.

Just wanted to point out that you have a technical heresy on your hands in the classic sense. It's pretty common, this particular heresy. Nothing personal. God in CHRIST will save you, regardless if you happen to not pick up on a jot or tittle here and there.
 
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fli

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BelieveItOarKnot said:
I think we've wrenched this out as far as necessary.

Just wanted to point out that you have a technical heresy on your hands in the classic sense. It's pretty common, this particular heresy. Nothing personal. God in CHRIST will save you, regardless if you happen to not pick up on a jot or tittle here and there.
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As long as I believe in Jesus, in God's eyes, I have the righteousness of Jesus
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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fli said:
As long as I believe in Jesus, in God's eyes, I have the righteousness of Jesus
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I don't believe whistling our evil present past the pearly gates is an option. Mark 7:21-23 is real for everyone, believer and unbeliever
 
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fli

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BelieveItOarKnot said:
I don't believe whistling our evil present past the pearly gates is an option. Mark 7:21-23 is real for everyone, believer and unbeliever
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Romans 6:7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. NKJV

Only a prophet, as the apostles were, would know if someone has died with Christ or not. Therefore, a prophet would know if a person was a sinner or not. I am in Christ and am no longer a sinner.
 
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