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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Jesus gives everlasting life, eternal life, not temporary conditional life
- Thread starter Cockcrow
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Would it surprise you to know that I have never, ever studied or looked into Calvinism in my entire life, and don't even know what it is?
My learning has been mostly on my own, and under the ministry of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, etc.
And that probably so that it could be pure/free from bias, and so I also wouldn't have to accept labels/accusations like this probably, etc.
Seriously, I don't even know what Calvinism is, but I sure do get accused of it a lot though, etc.
God Bless.
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Aussie52
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Why I am against the doctrine of 'Eternal Security' or 'Once saved, always saved' is firstly, because I believe that it is not Scriptural.
Secondly, and more to the point, is some of the alarming statements and examples OSAS proponents make.
There are so many examples where it is said that it does not matter how you live, if you have 'believed in Jesus for eternal life' you are safe & sound and will make it to heaven.
I have read & heard testimonies of people saying things like, 'I wandered away from the Lord, got into drugs, multiple sex partners and heavy drinking. But you know something wonderful, in all that time, I was safe in Jesus' arms'.
I don't know what you would call such stories, but I call it, heresy! We are called to holiness. How we live is eternally important.
A doctrine is known by its fruits. And OSAS is rotten to the core. Multitudes of careless Christians are heading for Hell, deceived by this insidious doctrine.
Secondly, and more to the point, is some of the alarming statements and examples OSAS proponents make.
There are so many examples where it is said that it does not matter how you live, if you have 'believed in Jesus for eternal life' you are safe & sound and will make it to heaven.
I have read & heard testimonies of people saying things like, 'I wandered away from the Lord, got into drugs, multiple sex partners and heavy drinking. But you know something wonderful, in all that time, I was safe in Jesus' arms'.
I don't know what you would call such stories, but I call it, heresy! We are called to holiness. How we live is eternally important.
A doctrine is known by its fruits. And OSAS is rotten to the core. Multitudes of careless Christians are heading for Hell, deceived by this insidious doctrine.
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Each person's path is different, and some do have to go through a lot first, but not all always though, and I do agree with you that we need to always be improving once we are saved in regards to sin, and I too might question anyone who doesn't think that this still isn't the goal/aim in life or of life after being saved, etc.
And as for all of the rotten fruit out there due to various teachings/doctrines, I'd have to ask you where you'd want me to begin, etc?
God Bless.
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Might want to tell some of these OSAS people that lip service has never been a good indicator of that, and that Jesus basically said that mere lip service doesn't at all matter unless there is some actual change/action, etc.
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Salvation offers more than only a ticket to heaven. It offers salvavation from sin. Salavtion empowers us to resist and reject sin beyond our limited means. To overcome. It empowers us to love otthers and do good. That's why we are given the Holy Spirit.
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Aussie52
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I respect the Calvinist that believes that regeneration changes one's life. That is why I admired the late John Macarthur despite some of his theology. Holiness should be the 'mark' of the Christian. Surely, Calvinist & Arminian can agree on that.
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Danthemailman
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Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
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Aussie52
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My reading of the Bible is that salvation is a probation, it is conditional, and I am not alone in this view.
Eternal life is not a 'thing' that God inserts into us. Rather it is an abiding or union in God's nature. John 15 states that if we cease to abide in Him, we are cast forth and burned.
The 'door' is a metaphor. We enter salvation through Him. It is a relationship. And like any relationship, one who has entered into it, can also 'walk away' from it.
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This question is unessesary to prove the OSAS doctrine. We both know the answer.
Instead, I will share my experience as an OSAS proponent that justified sin in my life. You see,I personally lived it and know for a fact that if I had continued in unrightous behavior under the umbrella of OSAS, I would have been believing I was saved, in vain. This is the end result of such a path. I even have a Charismatic, tongue speaking Christian relative who has justified her sinful life ( divorced 10 times) by using OSAS as her crutch, " OH, I am saved, Jesus Christ of Nazareth died for my sins , past, present and future".
My friend, there is a a deep danger with this theology that you have not taken into consideration.
I will leave you with some chilling words that Jesus Christ of Nazareth shared with all who are in the Flock:
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonderful works in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'" (Matthew 7:21–23, NKJV).
Be blessed.
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And yet,Jesus of Nazareth said, no one who is in him shall ever perish or be cast out.
Many can claim to know Christ. However,I would suggest the only factor worthy of consideration in the overall equation is, whether Jesus of Nazareth knows them by name.
When they do,they are sealed as his forever. Which is why we know, Jesus is the grace giver of eternal life. Not conditional reprieve.
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And yet those experiences are derived from
mortal judgement.
The only factor that applies to Mr.Ehrman or any mortal is whether God knows them by name as His.
Only God knows if Bart Ehrman is that name in the Lamb's Book of Eternal Life.
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Well if this is true then its good for both of us however, if there is a condition of obedience then I'm affraid OSAS would have been a false Gospel.
Thanks for sharing!
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Jesus never once taught we would lose our Salvation if we disobeyed him.
Jesus said Salvation is eternal and irrevocable.
That is very good news indeed. I can't imagine calling Jesus false.
You're welcome.
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Aussie52
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Here are just 2 examples of Jesus teaching loss of salvation.
Matt 18:21-35. Parable of the unforgiving servant.
vv34,35.
"And his master was angry and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. So My heavenly Father also will do to you IF each of you, from his heart does not forgive his brother his trespasses."
Jn 15: 2,6.
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away".
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire
and they are burned".
There can be no mistaking the meaning of what Jesus is saying. One can through unforgiveness or failing to abide in Christ, loose their salvation.
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I accept that Jesus died to secure a new covenant of eternal Salvation.
That which would be a gift of God through His grace.Not an act of our own ,so that we would not be able to boast at Saving ourselves.
Therefore,we who are His,and do not make a habit of sinning,for if we do we show we have never known him, cannot as mere mortals undo by our deed what Jesus secured and sealed through His power on our behalf and for the sake of our souls.
Ephesians 1:13–14
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest [pledge/down payment] of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession..."
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