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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
TRUMP "MISSED THE DEADLINE" TO CALL OFF TX GERRYMANDERING; CALIFORNIA WILL NOW DRAW NEW, MORE “BEAUTIFUL MAPS”
- Thread starter essentialsaltes
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Really?
Look closely:
States with All-Democratic Delegations
| State | Dem Seats | GOP Seats | Trump 2024 Vote % | Potential Mismatch |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Massachusetts | 9 | 0 | ~36% | ~36% voted GOP, 0% of seats |
| Connecticut | 5 | 0 | ~39% | Moderate mismatch |
| Hawaii | 2 | 0 | ~34% | Small delegation limits options |
| New Hampshire | 2 | 0 | ~47% | Notable mismatch |
| Maine | 2 | 0 | ~45% | Notable mismatch |
| New Mexico | 3 | 0 | ~44% | Moderate mismatch |
| Vermont | 1 | 0 | ~33% | At-large, winner-take-all |
States with All-Republican Delegations
| State | Dem Seats | GOP Seats | Harris 2024 Vote % | Potential Mismatch |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wyoming | 0 | 1 | ~27% | At-large, winner-take-all |
| Arkansas | 0 | 4 | ~34% | ~34% voted Dem, 0% of seats |
| Oklahoma | 0 | 5 | ~33% | Moderate mismatch |
| West Virginia | 0 | 2 | ~29% | Small mismatch |
| Utah | 0 | 4 | ~38% | Moderate mismatch |
| Idaho | 0 | 2 | ~31% | Small mismatch |
| Montana | 0 | 2 | ~41% | Notable mismatch |
| Iowa | 0 | 4 | ~43% | Notable mismatch |
| Nebraska | 0 | 3 | ~39% | Moderate mismatch |
Neither side is innocent.
Would anyone support seats assigned in proportion of votes received.
Example - Arkansas would go from 0 Democrat Seats to 2
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- Oct 17, 2011
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Those results really tell us nothing about gerrymandering. If Rs and Ds were evenly distributed throughout a state, then no matter how you drew the maps, the majority party would win all the seats.
For example, Montana is a 'notable mismatch' but has an independent committee draw its lines and gets an A from the Gerrymandering Project.
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- Aug 3, 2012
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Making an analogy between two things does not constitute "equating" them.
As in this post, much or your argumentation in this thread has been based on strawmen resulting from a very coarse parsing of language. If you slowed down and tried to appreciate just a bit of nuance, this would all make a lot more sense.
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probinson
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OK. You apparently think there is some similarity between violent attacks and voting. I do not.
I understand the hypocrisy of voting for something one says they don't support. I don't agree with it.
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What is wrong with ENDING the practice of gerrymandering. Assigning seats by vote tabulation - would that not be more Democratic in practice?
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- Oct 17, 2011
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Eh, maybe, but it would require a constitutional amendment, and then you wouldn't have 'your' representative in Congress who lives in your district and represents you. Maybe that would be less democratic.
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SimplyMe
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At least one of the things this particular straw man misses, is that Utah should be 3 Republicans and 1 Democrat according to the law. Utah had a 2018 referendum to have an independent commission create the maps. What happened, the commission met, created the maps, and then the legislature decided they didn't like any of them and approved a map that they created that gerrymandered the state.
The courts, though it took a couple of years, found that the legislature violated the law in creating its own map. The Republicans, very unhappy about the court ruling, decided to try and repeal the referendum. The ironic thing, they tried to use language claiming that this was judges overruling the "will of the people" -- not being honest since it was the will of the people that wanted maps created by the committee, where the Republicans just tried to claim it was judges trying to push their politics on to the state.
So odd that your chart tries to claim Utah is just a "moderate mismatch" when it was in fact illegal gerrymandering, and that the state -- once the new map goes into effect this election cycle, should no longer be on your chart as a state with All-Republican delegations.
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The Barbarian
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Rather, that's responding to a violent attack. I suppose that part of it is that we're seeing the bullywhimp response from republicans; "no fair, you're fighting back." But I'm beginning to see that republicans are also outraged because democrats were putting the idea to a vote, rather than having public officials impose it on them.
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That's because you continue to lean on strawmen, because, I guess, it wins you internet points or something.
Among other things, "violent" and "voting" have most of their letters in common, some of them even in the same order, so there's at least some similarity between them.
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The Barbarian
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In fact, democrats have placed bills to ban gerrymandering in Congress, and republicans have repeatedly shot them down. Granted, democrats would likely benefit from such bans, and republicans would likely be hurt by them. But the fact remains. The people who are really being hurt by this corrupt practice are the voters. As one honest person remarked, voters should pick their representatives; representatives should not be picking their voters.
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- Oct 17, 2011
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Graham says South Carolina should consider redistricting after Virginia vote
“After the Virginia Democrats’ efforts to redistrict in order to increase Democrat seats in the House of Representatives, South Carolina should consider fighting fire with fire,” Graham wrote in a Wednesday afternoon post on the social platform X.Graham,
You know that it would be untrue
You know that you would be a liar
If you was to say to me
That Virginia started up this fire
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- Aug 3, 2012
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I wonder if the good senator has looked at a map of SC's congressional districts lately. They only have one Democrat district, which encompasses all of Charleston.
South Carolina's congressional districts - Wikipedia
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Hans Blaster
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How about eliminating gerrymandering all together and assign seats by voter count? if 40% of the state votes for Party A then Party A gets 40% of the seats.
Sounds like Democracy to me.
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Hans Blaster
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What is your source? Who was making that judgement?
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