• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Daniel 7 Prophecy until the Kingdom of God

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
... and the Judgement before Christ and the end of the Wicked.

The Daniel 7 prophecy focuses on the vision of the four beasts and the little horn, which symbolize the four world empires and the rise of the Antichrist. The four beasts symbolize the rise of the Babylonian Empire, the Medo-Persian Empire, the Greek Empire, and the Roman Empire, and what rose from it, the little horn which represents the Antichrist entity that goes to the end. The prophecy foretells the establishment of God's eternal kingdom and the judgment of the world at the end. The Image of the Kings dream in Caniel 2, and the four beasts of Daniels dream in Daniel 7, are the same but now the details are expanded.

So lets look and see what we have as we see the four beasts in Daniels dream in chapter 7, which are also four kingdoms. Notice also when you read Daniel 7 how each preceding Kingdom conquers the former Kingdom, an event also taking place among the Kingdoms of the image in Daniel 2. See also how the fourth kingdom in Daniel 2 says that it “breaketh in pieces and subdueth”, which we see in verse 40:
Daniel 2:40
And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

The fourth kingdom of Daniel 7 also breaks "in pieces.” and "stamped the residue" or subdued it as in Daniel2.
Daniel 7:7
After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

So both dreams are about the same thing, but with different symbols. Chapter 7 only provides more information and clarifies who the Antichrist entity or "Little Horn" is with more detail. So lets take a look at the Kingdoms shown by the Beasts, and Little Horn power that we find in Daniel starting in chapter 7 and break it down;
Daniel 7:2-4
7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

Most everyone agrees this is Babylon...

Daniel 7:5
7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

Same agreement that this is Medi-Persia..

Daniel 7:6
7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Pretty much agreement this is Greece..

Daniel 7:7
7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Here we see Pagan Rome with the ten horns, which are the nations which came up with it. We also get a description in Daniel 2..
Daniel 2:33 &41-43
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

We see how the nations of the empire progressed and become Western Civilization in Europe, and still have not been able to unite in the manner of the Roman Empire and it describes the Little Horn that comes up out of it..
Daniel 7:20 &24
7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

So the ten toes mixed with iron and clay are of the fourth Beast who subdues three of the kings, and the Little Horn also comes out from the fourth Beast:
Daniel 7:8
7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

This is Papal Rome, as we shall see and there is much agreement in history..

"Out of the ruins of political Rome, arose the great moral Empire in the 'giant form' of the Roman Church." – A.C. Flick, "The Rise of the Medieval Church," 1900, p. 150.
 
Last edited:

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Now Daniel, while hearing the angels interpretation of this fourth beast, is told this beast (kingdom) has 10 horns, and one “little” horn came up out of these 10 horns and to make way three kingdoms were “plucked up” of the preceding horns.
Daniel 7:20
7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

Daniel 7:8
7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

So we see the Ten horns represent ten kings and another one rises up and is diverse or not just political in nature.
Daniel 7:24
7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Therefore, an “extra” king rose up out of these Ten, and he “plucked up” or destroyed “three” preceding kings.
We see the three of the first horns...

The three kingdoms were to be plucked up to give place for the Papacy. This prediction found the exact fulfillment in the destruction of the three Arian kingdoms: the Heruli, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths.

"I might cite that three that were eradicated from before the Pope out of the last first given; viz., the Heruli under Odoacer (AKA Odovacar), the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths."- 'Hora Apocalyptica, Vol. III, p. 168, Note 1, London: 1862.

Now we see in verse 8 and 25 that the little horn had eye`s like the eyes of a man and a mouth speaking great things and it "he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." or 1260 prophetic years.
Daniel 7:8
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Daniel 7:25
He shall speak words against the Most High and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

But at the end, the Little Horn power or the Antichrist entity will be destroyed at the coming of Christ...

Dan 7:26. But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end.
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So what happens with the ten horns or kingdoms that were in the fourth beast on his head?
Daniel 7:7
7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Well remember how this beast power is Rome and the Roman Empire has been divided. We now have these kingdoms or nations as western Europe, and this happened between 351 AD and 476 AD. Here are the 10 divisions by ancient and modern name:

(1) Alemanni – Germany
(2) Franks – France
(3) Anglo-Saxons – England
(4) Burgundians – Switzerland
(5) Visigoths – Spain
(6) Suevi – Portugal
(7) Lombards – Italy
(8) Heruli
(9) Vandals
(10) Ostrogoths

We dont see the last three, Heruli, Vandals and the Ostrogoths, because these are the 3 horns that were “plucked up.”

So we see several points of history which show who the Little Horn power is as it came to power from among the ten divisions of Europe which were the ten horns. It began as "a little horn" or a little power at its beginning then after the three uprooted horns, the Heruli, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths were taken out of the way as history shows us. So as we look at the little horn, we see it has a man at its head and it is different than the others.
Daniel 7:8
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The little horn, not only had temporal or "state" powers, but we see it starts to blaspheme 'mouth speaking great things', so the little horn was a "church-state" combination, and we see more.
Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The Little Horn would speak 'great words against the most High' or blasphemy. And we see the definition of blasphemy from the Bible is to claim to be God and/or to claim to be able to forgive sin. The Little Horn power would persecute or 'wear out the saints' and kill many of the faithful. And we see this in the Dark Ages, during the 'time and times and the dividing of time' or 1,260 years this Little Horn entity's persecutions brought the death of millions, and the Little Horn power would think to change times and law.
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Well lets all look to see what this 'little horn' power is, as the text connects it to something very clear as the prophecy in Daniel gives us the key. Here the exact same time that the 'little horn' power is referred to as ' a time and times and the dividing of time' or 3 1/2 times, a meaning the period of 1260 days/years as found for the Beast of Revelation, lets compare.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

This verse in Daniel is referring to a period of time that the little horn or Antichrist power will persecute the true believers or true church, and it blasphemes for 1260 years\42 months. The same is true for the time given "that it shall be for a time, times, and an half" for Daniel 12:7
In fact we can connect it to many more and also what the length of the period is for the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation as seen in the use of "time, times and half a time" (i.e. 1+2+0.5=3.5), "1,260 days" and "42 months". These references represent a period of 1260 years as you have to take in account of the 360 day Jewish year multiplied by 3.5. These time periods occur eight times in scripture:
Daniel 7:25, "time, times and a half".
Daniel 9:27, "half one set of seven".
Daniel 12:7, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 11:2, "42 months".
Revelation 11:3, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:6, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:14, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 13:5, "42 months".

Notice it is in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation and clearly shows this period of 1260 years of the 'little horn/Beast' power prevailing in the church. Lets look closer.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The two witnesses is a reference to the Old and New Testament scriptures. For 1260 years scriptural truth would be suppressed, obscured by the traditions of men and all you have to do is ask what church set aside Gods Word and go by its own tradition.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The true church would flee persecution by the apostate church, with its burning at the stake and forming inquisitions to persecute the true believers.

This antichrist power would become a very powerful religious organization as well as political power as we saw before.
It would be guilty of blasphemy (Revelation 13:5, 6).
It would war with and persecute the saints (Revelation 13:7).
So who persecuted and destroyed millions of saints during the Dark Ages, history is pretty clear on that.

And lets look at how it would reign for 42 months, which equals 1,260 years, the "time, times and half a time". History shows its rise in A.D. 538 not long after the death of Theodoric the strong Ostrogothic king and the defeat of the barbarian tribes around Rome and the Roman code of law restored in Rome along with taking of temporal power as this antichrist power grew stronger, and that takes us to 1798. Lets see what events happened that year and see if any 'religious/political' powered were affected....

January–June​

 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There are many Bible scholars who have gone over it and are in agreement that it is these empires Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome, with the Roman Empire then what arose in Rome after, a entity composed of a religious aspect but a temporal one also. Here is from a main religious site on the empires represented by the beasts, What are the four beasts in Daniel chapter 7? | GotQuestions.org
'The first of Daniel’s four beasts is “like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle” (Daniel 7:4). As Daniel watches, the wings are torn off the beast, and the creature stands erect like a man and a human mind is given to it. Later, the angel who interprets the dream tells Daniel, “The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth” (verse 17). This first beast is representative of King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. Its rise to human-like status reflects Nebuchadnezzar’s deliverance from a beastly existence and his insight into the true nature of God (Daniel 4:34–35).

The second beast in Daniel’s vision is “like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth” (Daniel 7:5). A voice tells the second beast to devour flesh until it is satisfied. This beast represents the Medo-Persian Empire; the raising up of one side of the creature indicates that one of the kingdom’s parts (Persia) would be dominant. The three ribs in the creature’s mouth symbolize nations that were “devoured” by the Medes and the Persians. These three conquered nations are known to be Babylon, Lydia, and Egypt.

The third of the four beasts is “like a leopard,” except it has four bird-like wings on its back and four heads (Daniel 7:6). This beast is given authority to rule. The third beast represents Greece, an empire known for the swiftness of its conquests. The four heads are predictive of the four-way division of the empire following Alexander the Great’s death. Daniel’s vision of the ram and the goat gives further details of the second and third kingdoms (see Daniel 8).

The final beast that Daniel sees rising from the sea is the most dreadful—“terrifying and frightening and very powerful” (Daniel 7:7). This fourth beast has “bronze claws” (verse 19) and “large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left” totally annihilating its prey (verse 7). The fourth beast has ten horns. This creature represents the Roman Empire, a mighty kingdom that indeed crushed all its foes.'....

Here is another...

The first beast: the Chaldean or Babylonian Empire​

The lion was symbolic of the kingdom of Babylon and the “man’s heart” was that of its most notable king, Nebuchadnezzar, who is written about considerably in the first four chapters of Daniel.

As The Expositor’s Bible Commentary explains, “The lion symbol was characteristic of Babylon, especially in Nebuchadnezzar’s time, when the Ishtar Gate entrance was adorned on either side with a long procession of yellow lions on blue-glazed brick, fashioned in high relief” (1985, Vol. 7, pp. 85-86).

The eagle’s wings plucked off the lion were symbolic of Nebuchadnezzar’s time of insanity when he was humbled by God to learn that “the Most High rules in the kingdom of men” (Daniel 4:17, 34-37).

Nebuchadnezzar ruled from Babylon to Asia Minor and from the Caspian Sea to Egypt. Biblically, his most notable conquest was that of the nation of Judah, with Daniel being the most famous captive from that nation.

Following his father’s death, Nebuchadnezzar reigned as king of Babylon for 43 years, from 604-561 B.C. (JewishEncyclopedia.com/Nebuchadnezzar). After his death, Babylon continued as a strong empire until 539 B.C., when it was conquered by the second rising power in Daniel’s vision, the Medo-Persian Empire.

The second beast: the Medo-Persian Empire​

Daniel 7:5 says, “And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’”

This beast’s being “raised up on one side” represents the Persians being greater than the Medes in this federated empire. This is made plain to Daniel in a vision two years later when he sees a ram with two horns, one being higher than the other. Daniel is told by the angel Gabriel that the ram represents the kings of Media and Persia (Daniel 8:3, 20).

The three ribs that are devoured represent three empires conquered by Persia’s first great king, Cyrus the Great, and his son, Cambyses II. Cyrus came to power in 558 B.C. and conquered the Lydian Empire (Asia Minor) in 546 and the Chaldean Empire (Babylon) in 539; and Cambyses conquered Egypt in 525 (ibid., p. 86).

The Medo-Persian Empire lasted for 200 years and, under later kings, expanded toward Greece in the west and to India in the east. At one point, the Persian Empire covered parts of three continents: Asia, Africa and Europe. But, like the Chaldean Empire, the Persian Empire finally came to an end. A new beast was rising in the west, and its appointed time had come.

The third beast: the Greco-Macedonian Empire​

Daniel 7:6 says, “After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.”

As with the second beast, the third beast is clearly identified by the angel Gabriel. It was Greece, and the “first king” was Alexander the Great. After his untimely death in 323 B.C., his empire was divided into four smaller kingdoms (Daniel 8:21-22).

The symbol of the leopard with four wings portrays the swiftness of Alexander’s sudden rise and conquest of the Persian Empire from 334-331 B.C. After his death, several years of struggle ensued that resulted in the division of his empire into four kingdoms. The new kingdoms were (1) Greece and Macedon, (2) Thrace and Asia Minor, (3) Middle East-Asia and (4) Egypt-Palestine.

“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.”The last two were ruled by Seleucus, who began the Seleucid Empire, and Ptolemy, who began the Ptolemaic Empire. These two kingdoms are called the king of North and the king of the South in Daniel 11.

Approximately two centuries later, the fourth beast conquered all of these kingdoms and expanded far beyond the lands conquered by the previous beasts.

Daniel 11 shows that the king of North and the king of the South will revive and play major roles in end-time prophecies.

The fourth beast, dreadful and terrible: the Roman Empire​

Next in Daniel 7:7 we read, “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.”

The devouring teeth of iron and the trampling feet correspond with Nebuchadnezzar’s vision of the fourth kingdom being strong as iron, breaking in pieces and crushing all others (Daniel 2:40-41). When the Roman Empire came to power under the Caesars (44 B.C.) it devoured, broke in pieces and trampled the residue of its enemies with its feet—as was described in Daniel’s vision in Daniel 7.

The fourth beast is quite different from the previous beasts, in that it has 10 horns. Daniel 7:24 says, “The ten horns are ten kings who shall arise from this kingdom.” Historically, these revivals began to rise after the fall of Rome in A.D. 476, with the later ones under a new name: the Holy Roman Empire. (For additional information, see “What Is Babylon?”).

This fourth beast would continue to be revived off and on for over 1,500 years until the end-time 10th revival. The 10th and final revival will be destroyed by Jesus Christ at His second coming (Daniel 7:26-27).

This leads to one other unusual feature of the prophecy of the fourth beast.

The little horn​

Daniel 7:8 says, “I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.”

This little horn represents a powerful religious system that would align with the last seven of the 10 political horns that were to arise after the fall of Rome. This coordination between church and state produced what ultimately became known as the Holy Roman Empire.

In verses 21-22 and 25, this little horn makes war against the saints, speaks pompous words against God, intends to change times and law, and persecutes the saints for a “time and times and half a time” (literally three and a half years, but using the day-for-a-year principle of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, 1,260 years).

Evidence of this persecution can be seen through the centuries, as hundreds and thousands of people in Europe lost their lives...'

And many others although some try to place Antiochus Epiphanes as the 'little horn power', and this cant be as he doesnt fit at the time given.
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So lets take a look at Antiochus Epiphanes as the 'little horn power', and we have to understand that most Bible scholars acknowledge that the first beast is Babylon, so no issue there and the other 3. But then we have the Preterist interpretation which tries to the claim the second and third beast of Daniel 7 as Media and then Persia, with the fourth beast being Greece and the little horn coming out of Greece as Antiochus Epiphanes. This argument, however, falls apart quickly on numerous grounds, including the lack of historical data to warrant that separation of Media and Persia into two successive kingdoms. The majority of Bible scholars through the centuries, agree that interpretation of the fourth world power of Daniel 2 and 7 is Rome, as the Roman Empire. This was early taught by Jewish writers, even including Josephus and later in the early church by Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Eusebius, Aphrahat, Cyril, Chrysostom, Isidore, Sulpicius Severus, Jerome, and Theodoret, etc.. Then by the majority of the Reformation, and post-Reformation scholars and reformers. Beginning in the thirteenth century and onward in the time of the Reformers, they began to see that the 'little horn' power of Daniel 7, coming out of the ten divisions of Rome, was the Papacy.

We also find Bible scholars supporting the interpretation of Daniel 7 as being Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome in Daniel 8 in the interpretation of the ram 'which had two horns'. Its two disproportionate horns are specifically identified as the kings of Media and Persia together 'having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.' Thus, if in Daniel 7 Media-Persia is the second beast, and Greece the third, then the fourth beast in the prophecy, must represent Rome, the great power that arose after Greece. Therefore, the little horn that came from this fourth beast cannot represent Antiochus IV, who arose prior to, and not after, Rome.

If one looks the little horns in Daniel 7 and 8 are the same historical entity.
Both are identified with the same symbol, a 'little horn'.
Both are described as being 'little' but becoming 'great' later on.
Both are described as persecuting powers.
Both have the same people as object of their persecution.
Both are described as blasphemous powers.
Both are described as intelligent.
Both extend to the time of the end.
Both are to be supernaturally destroyed.

The little horn power of Daniel 7 and the littler horn power of Daniel 8 are both clearly the same entity, and because the little horn in Daniel 7 cannot be Antiochus Epiphanes, the little horn in Daniel 8 clearly cant be either as we see.
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Then when we compare with Daniel 2, and see how the four beasts are brought to view, and the angel tells Daniel that they represent four "kings" that should arise out of the earth. We know that "Kings" here represent kingdoms, since we know from Daniel 2 that Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome are represented by the symbols as we see in the image, and its parts.

Daniel 2:19-45
19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.
20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.
23 I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast now made known unto us the king's matter.
24 Therefore Daniel went in unto Arioch, whom the king had ordained to destroy the wise men of Babylon: he went and said thus unto him; Destroy not the wise men of Babylon: bring me in before the king, and I will shew unto the king the interpretation.
25 Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste, and said thus unto him, I have found a man of the captives of Judah, that will make known unto the king the interpretation.
26 The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?
27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.
31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

And so we see that they come all the way to our present situation in the kingdoms of the feet, 'part of iron and part of clay.' It describes pretty well and distinctly the kingdoms that came out of the Roman Empire and we have today trying to come together in what they call themselves 'the European Union'. They keep saying they are united but cant agree on much anything or even come to the level the Roman Empire was, and some rather not even be in it is they weren't across from the others. Now look at what it has in Revelation and compare to Daniel remembering that a day equals a year in Bible Prophecy..
Daniel 7:25, "time, times and a half".
Daniel 9:27, "half one set of seven".
Daniel 12:7, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 11:2, "42 months".
Revelation 11:3, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:6, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:14, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 13:5, "42 months".

Revelation 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Daniel 7:8
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Here is the same text from one of the other translations which is very telling..
Daniel's Vision of the Four Beasts
…7After this, as I watched in my vision in the night, suddenly a fourth beast appeared, and it was terrifying—dreadful and extremely strong—with large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed; then it trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the beasts before it, and it had ten horns. 8While I was contemplating the horns, suddenly another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like those of a man and a mouth that spoke words of arrogance.

The Beast from the Sea
…4They worshiped the dragon who had given authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can wage war against it?” 5 The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months. 6And the beast opened its mouth to speak blasphemies against God and to slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven.…
Berean Standard Bible
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Now for those who say it all happened in the past, or its just a future thing, you have to understand that Preterism, and Futurism were attempts to divert the attention away from the Little Horn power or Papal Rome as being the antichrist, which had begun to be made clear from the prophecy. So these two things were brought up to confuse and put aside what the Protestant believed, who looked upon the Papacy as the antichrist power. By the time of the convening of the Council of Trent in 1545, Bibles in German, Danish, Swedish, Icelandic, and English with Tyndale’s New Testament and other complete Bibles had been published, and the Reformation established in Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, and England. The Roman Catholic church and the Reformers stood in complete opposition at the Council of Trent, where the council under control of the Catholic element condemned what the Reformation taught. The Council of Trent also made decrees that became permanent law of the Catholic church. Reformation truths were there rejected and and branded heresy in what became know as the Counter-Reformation, and we see the introduction of Futurism and Preterism as the Jesuits sought to blunt the charge of the Pope being the antichrist power of Daniel and Revelation.

The Reformation studied the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation and showed how the Papacy was the antichrist of prophecy. The Jesuits were called upon to provide this method to refute the Reformation and they responded, determined to lift the stigma from the Papacy by locating the Antichrist at some point where it could not be applied to the Pope and the Roman church. The Jesuits Ribera, of Spain, and Bellarmine, of Rome put out futurist interpretation. Almost simultaneously Alcazar, Spanish Jesuit of Seville, advanced the preterist interpretation. These were designed to meet and overwhelm the Historical interpretation of the Protestants. The Preterism claim accomplished it by making prophecy stop altogether short of papal Rome's career. The Futurism view achieved it by making it basically jump over the full timeline of papal dominance, putting the Antichrist into the distant future, but history shows the true facts that cant be changed.

If one looks, the prophecy gives a general outline in history of these kingdoms in Daniel 2, 7, and 8 but it also gives specific marks that identify it. For instance, the fourth beast had ten "horns," and three of these horns were plucked up by another "little horn." So lets see what history tells us on this part, "behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots"

The prophecy is that the "little horn" should come up among the "horns" that divided the Roman Empire, and these were the ones that began the decline of the Empire. History shows that around 250 A. D., the Goths invaded the Roman Empire; and the Romans suffered a serious defeat, and the emperor Decius and his son were slain. The successor, Gallus, purchased peace by paying an annual tribute to the Goths. The Goths however, continued the attacks until about 271 the emperor Aurelian concluded a treaty with the Goths and Vandals, in which the Romans agreed to withdraw their forces from the great province of Dacia, and give it to the Goths and Vandals. This was the beginning of the dismemberment of the Roman Empire. The Allemani overran the country from the Danube to the river Po in Italy, and they remained in the northern part of the empire, never retreating beyond the bounds of the Roman Empire.

Then the Emperor Constantine gave permission to the Vandals to settle in the provinces of Pannonia and Noricum. Now this is the same emperor Constantine who united the Catholic Church to the Roman state, and became the leader in religious legislation, and in its execution. As a pagan emperor, Constantine was the 'Pontifex Maximus' of the state religion; and now as a 'Christian emperor' he claims the same power, but now also calls himself a "bishop," and can rule over the church. In Rome the Roman Senate was still in power, and Constantine was tolerant of them; but in the East he enforced his power mostly unfettered. One of the reasons that Constantine's transferred the seat of government from Rome to Constantinople in 330 A. D., was to meet the onslaughts of the Goths in what is now Bulgaria.

Prophecy says that the "little horn" was "diverse" from the other horns, and we see the power it got in the head being the 'Pontifex Maximus'. In 445 A. D. the Roman emperor in the West, Valentinian III, by imperial decree made the bishop of Rome head of all the Western bishops. Leo the Great was pope at that time, and claimed and exercised all the prerogatives this decree included, calling himself the "Vicar of St. Peter." So the papacy came into power among the ten barbarian tribes of Europe, and three of these tribes were uprooted or basically taken out,

This little horn represents Rome in both its phases, Pagan Rome and Papal Rome. And there then comes the persecution of the saints by the Little Horn as the early church who were Sabbath keepers and then any who stood against the Papacy were severely afflicted and suffered with burning at the stake, torture, and punished in many ways to destroy their resistance and break them to recant of what they held, and many did give up their beliefs.
Daniel 7:21
I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
History records what happened exactly in this timeline as the prophecy of Daniel (and Revelation) laid out.. Here is a good description....' let us review what happened during those 1260 years of Papal domination. One writer described this horrible period of the Dark Ages as follows:

“In the sixth century the papacy had become firmly established. Its seat of power was fixed in the imperial city, and the bishop of Rome was declared to be the head over the entire church. Paganism had given place to the papacy. The dragon had given to the beast "his power, and his seat, and great authority." [REVELATION 13:2] And now began the 1260 years of papal oppression foretold in the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation. [DANIEL 7:25; REVELATION 13:5-7.] Christians were forced to choose, either to yield their integrity and accept the papal ceremonies and worship, or to wear away their lives in dungeons or suffer death by the rack, the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], or the headsman's ax.”

“The accession of the Roman Church to power marked the beginning of the Dark Ages. As her power increased, the darkness deepened. Faith was transferred from Christ, the true foundation, to the pope of Rome. Instead of trusting in the Son of God for forgiveness of sins and for eternal salvation, the people looked to the pope, and to the priests and prelates to whom he delegated authority. They were taught that the pope was their earthly mediator, and that none could approach God except through him, and, further, that he stood in the place of God to them, and was therefore to be implicitly obeyed. A deviation from his requirements was sufficient cause for the severest punishment to be visited upon the bodies and souls of the offenders. Thus the minds of the people were turned away from God to fallible, erring, and cruel men, nay more, to the prince of darkness himself, who exercised his power through them.”

1260 Years of Medieval Darkness​

Although the Darkest period of the history of this world was during the 1260 year reign of the medieval Papacy, God raised great dignitaries of faith who proclaimed the Word of God and make it shine in the midst of darkness. Examples of such men of renown are: the Germans Martin Luther and Melanchthon, from Prague: John Huss and Jerome, the Swiss Ulric Zwingli, the Scot John Knox, the Englishmen: John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, Cranmer, Hugh Latimer, John and Charles Wesley, the Huguenots of France. They are such, “Of whom the world was not worthy” (Hebrews 11:38).

The Word of God Banned for 1260 years​

The same Dark Ages period of 1260 years is depicted in the Word of God as 1260 days when the two witnesses prophesied in sackcloth (Revelation 11:3). This was the period when the Word of God, depicted as the two witnesses, the Old and New Testaments was proscribed under penalty of death. “During the greater part of this period, God's witnesses remained in a state of obscurity. The papal power sought to hide from the people the word of truth, and set before them false witnesses to contradict its testimony. When the Word of God was proscribed by religious and secular authority; when its testimony was perverted, and every effort made that men and demons could invent to turn the minds of the people from it; when those who dared proclaim its sacred truths were hunted, betrayed, tortured, buried in dungeon cells, martyred for their faith, or compelled to flee to mountain fastness, and to dens and caves of the earth--then the faithful witnesses prophesied in sackcloth. Yet they continued their testimony throughout the entire period of 1260 years. In the darkest times there were faithful men who loved God's word and were jealous for His honor.”

The Word of God was banned because it reveals the Papacy’s schemes of deception and it reveals their span of temporal power during the Middle Ages. This period is also portrayed as the period 1260 days during which the woman flees into the wilderness. This is a reference to the Christian Church that had been persecuted during that dreadful period of the Dark Ages (Revelation 12:6).
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Now what is really interesting is that the 1260 years of this antichrist entity, which is seen as the Papal Supremacy, is attested to by many sources, not just a few:

Long ages ago, when Rome through the neglect of the Western emperors was left to the mercy of barbarous hordes, Romans turned to one figure for aid and protection and asked him to rule them; and thus in this simple manner, the best title of all to kingly right, commenced the temporal sovereignty of the Popes. And meekly stepping to the throne of Caesar, the Vicar of Christ took up the sceptre to which the emperors and kings of Europe were to bow in reverence through so many ages, from sentiments of respect for the dignity of his office and because he was the only mediator whom they recognized in their almost interminable wars.

Source: Two Romes, by James P. Conry, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, Volume XXXVI (36), edited by James Andrew Corcoran, Patrick John Ryan, Edmond Francis Prendergast, 1911, pgs. 193-194.

... the right to her Temporal Sovereignty is an integral right of the Church as constituted by her Divine Founder. It has prevailed de facto for more than twelve hundred years, and has been possessed de jure by Divine Natural Law from the beginning of Christianity,... Source: The Victories of Rome and the Temporal Monarchy of the Church, 5th edition, By Kenelm Digby Best, London, 1906, pg. xii.

Rome has been a government under the Popes for some twelve hundred years. Source: Complete Works of the Most Rev. John Hughes, Archbishop of New York, 1866, Volume 2. pg. 778

... In books of all sizes, and from the pulpit of every church, we have been taught from our infancy, that the "beast, the man of sin, and the scarlet harlot," mentioned in the Revelations, were names which God himself had given to the Pope; and we have all been taught to believe of the Catholic Church, that her worship was "idolatrous," and that her doctrines were "damnable.".... Now let us put a plain question or two to ourselves, and to these our readers; and we shall quickly be able to form a just estimate of the modesty, sincerity, and consistency of these revilers of the Catholic religion: they will not, because they cannot, deny, that this religion was the ONLY CHRISTIAN religion in the world for fifteen hundred years after the death of Christ. They may say, indeed, that for the first three hundred years there was no Pope seated at Rome. But, then, for twelve hundred years there had been; and, during that period, all the nations of Europe, and some part of America, had become Christian, and all acknowledged the Pope as their head in religious matters; and, in short, there was no other Christian Church known in the world, nor had any other ever been thought of. Can we believe, then, that Christ, who died to save sinners, who sent forth his gospel as the means of their salvation, would have suffered a false Christian religion, and no other than a false Christian religion, to be known amongst men all this while? Will these modest assailants of the faith of their and our ancestors assert to our faces, that, for twelve hundred years at least, there were no true Christians in the world? Will they tell us, that Christ, who promised to be with the teachers of his word to the end of the world, wholly left them, and gave up hundreds upon hundreds of millions of people to be led in darkness to their eternal perdition, by one whom his inspired followers had denominated the "man of sin, and the scarlet harlot"? Will they, indeed, dare to tell us, that Christ gave up the world wholly to "Antichrist" for twelve hundred years?
Source: History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland, Showing How That Event Has Impoverished and Degraded the Main Body of the People in Those Countries, by William Cobbett, published in 1832 in New York by John Doyle, 12 Liberty-street; and Thomas Doyle, Market-street, Providence R.I., pages 6 and 7.

So the prophecy of the 1260 years is unveiled by the Day/Year Principle and Daniel 7 and 12, Revelation 11, 12 and 13, all mention this same persecuting power with its false system of worship, who enforce a church and state union, causing the kings of the earth to bow down and worship it. And history gives us a timeline which outlines just how the Pope first took it's powers over church and state:

533 AD - Emperor Justinian decrees John, as the Bishop of Rome, Chief Bishop of all the churches and he was not to be questioned that in her was the supremacy of the pontificate. Edicts of Novellae, 131st chap. II. This was not the first time that the Bishop of Rome declared himself to be ruler of all the churches, but it is the first time the claim was backed up by the secular sword and temporal powers granted to the Papal System.

536 AD - General Belisarius, under the command of Justinian, marched to Rome, deposed the Ostrogoth installed Bishop of Rome (Silverius) and exiled him.

537 AD - Belisarius installed Vigilius as Bishop of Rome

538 AD - General Belisarius broke the siege and the Ostrogoths withdrew from Rome. Pope Silverius died in prison, marking it the first time Justinians Decree, the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome over the Church could actually be implemented by Vigilius.

1798 AD - General Berthier marched to Rome, entered it unopposed and proclaimed it a Roman Republic, demanded of the Pope the renunciation of his temporal authority, then take prisoner.

The Original Catholic Encyclopedia states on Pope Vigilius beginning pontificate and his temporal powers:

"From this time on the popes, more and more involved in worldly events, no longer belong solely to the Church; they are men of the state, and then rules of the state.[ EDITORS' NOTE : Some writers hold that the beginning of Vigilius' legitimate pontificate should be reckoned from 538 rather than 537, because his deposed predecessor, Silverius, did not die until June, 538." Original Catholic Encyclopedia - Home of the largest Catholic Encyclopedia resource on the web...
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So we can identify the little horn as Papal Rome, not merely as a political entity, but as a religio-political system. Understanding what is meant by its striving to “change times and law” is crucial to the intentions of this entity.

God’s law includes only one commandment involving time, the Sabbath. So the attempted substitution of Sunday for the seventh day as the fulfillment of this claim. The prophet Daniel saw this power which, according to Bible prophecy, would attempt to "change times and laws".

SOP sheds some light on this..
“The papacy has attempted to change the law of God… The change of the Sabbath is the sign of her authority.”
(Great Controversy, ch. 25)
The church of Rome boastfully acknowledges that she substituted Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh and last day of the week. It also makes clear its intent with the altered the reading of the Ten Commandments in her official Catechism. The chuich of Rome has many writings which are full of very elaborate explanations as to why she made the change from Saturday to Sunday.

But the Bible facts remain, that Saturday, the last day of the week, is the Lord’s day, the Christian Sabbath. It was made for man by Jesus Christ when He created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. And He tells us of His creation.
Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

But we need not fear, as there is a judgement awaiting this Little Horn power of Papal Rome as we see, and a eternal Kingdom for the faithful.
Daniel 7:22
Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
 
Upvote 0

BibleDaniel7

Active Member
Jun 14, 2024
27
8
Reading
Visit site
✟26,893.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Hi reddogs

Great to see your interest in Daniel 7, which is an interest of mine as well. However my understanding is that unlike Daniel 2, in Daniel 7 the four beasts, or kingdoms exist simultaneously. See the following verses:

Daniel said: "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea....
..."Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

Daniel 7:2-3,11-12 (NIV)

verse 13 then describes the Return of Christ, so it is clear these four beasts are end-times superpowers (corresponding to the four winds: North, South, East and West) that will be in place when Jesus returns. In addition, if you doubt this, Revelation 13 very clearly refers to Daniel 7, as the beast described in Revelation 13 has the attributes of all four of the beasts in Daniel 7 combined. My website Bible Daniel 7 Website has more details on this, including an interpretation of the four beasts, and an explanation of how John and Daniel are describing the same thing.
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,550
577
✟650,616.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hi reddogs

Great to see your interest in Daniel 7, which is an interest of mine as well. However my understanding is that unlike Daniel 2, in Daniel 7 the four beasts, or kingdoms exist simultaneously. See the following verses:

Daniel said: "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea....
..."Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

Daniel 7:2-3,11-12 (NIV)

verse 13 then describes the Return of Christ, so it is clear these four beasts are end-times superpowers (corresponding to the four winds: North, South, East and West) that will be in place when Jesus returns. In addition, if you doubt this, Revelation 13 very clearly refers to Daniel 7, as the beast described in Revelation 13 has the attributes of all four of the beasts in Daniel 7 combined. My website Bible Daniel 7 Website has more details on this, including an interpretation of the four beasts, and an explanation of how John and Daniel are describing the same thing.
Yes, but thats not what Gods Word tells us in Daniel and Revelation, and FYI this is a teaching forum for those who are joining the church, so let me create a thread to kindly invite you to discussion. Here we can discuss it further here... Daniel 7 discussion
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
54,525
12,297
Georgia
✟1,208,113.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Hi reddogs

Great to see your interest in Daniel 7, which is an interest of mine as well. However my understanding is that unlike Daniel 2, in Daniel 7 the four beasts, or kingdoms exist simultaneously. See the following verses:

Daniel said: "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea....
..."Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

Daniel 7:2-3,11-12 (NIV)

verse 13 then describes the Return of Christ, so it is clear these four beasts are end-times superpowers (corresponding to the four winds: North, South, East and West) that will be in place when Jesus returns. In addition, if you doubt this, Revelation 13 very clearly refers to Daniel 7, as the beast described in Revelation 13 has the attributes of all four of the beasts in Daniel 7 combined. My website Bible Daniel 7 Website has more details on this, including an interpretation of the four beasts, and an explanation of how John and Daniel are describing the same thing.
You agree then that when we see these exact same empires in Dan 2 they come up sequentially and in the same Sequence given in Dan 7:2-8

In the case of the first beast " vs 4 I kept looking until its wings were plucked,"... looks like a sequence. And Daniel already says he lives in the time of the first beast.

In the case of the second beast... "vs 6 After this I kept looking, and behold, another one, like a leopard,"

It is explicitly stated as a sequence and does not lend itself to "and 3000 years later" as the starting point as if all arise again 3000 years later.

It is true that when we get to Rev 13 we see the combined group mentioned in reverse order Iron beast, leopard, bear , lion since in history John is looking back in time at the point where Rev 13 is after the 1260 days of Rev 12.
 
Upvote 0