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How to be a non-political Christian

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Pope Leo XIV: “I do not look at my role as being political, a politician. I don’t want to get into a debate with him. I don’t think that the message of the Gospel is meant to be abused in the way that some people are doing.” This I admire. To rise above politics while being unafraid to speak the message of the Gospel.
 

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Of course, the Lord Jesus Christ is above politics!! Still, He is the KING OF KINGS, and the government over all things thus rests on His shoulders. So what are we talking about when we talk about politics and the Gospel??? The Good News (the Gospel) is that we have been given the King over all things and that to mean we can and are supposed to LISTEN to Him! So if someone (anyone) starts saying "No Kings" what are they tell you?? Are they just making a "political statement" or do we find the Word of God in our mouth? When are talk about the Prince of Persia are we talking about who has control in Iran or the spirit behind that part of the world? If we talk about our battle not being with flesh and blood but the powers, principalities, and the dark spiritual forces of this world, are we talking about Trump vs Iran or are we talking about the spiritual powers in this world and the rebellion against God in general?

Wars and rumor of wars go on, but the Lord personally gives us things to do, at least He will if we indeed to listen to Him. I am not saying we should be unaware and unknowledgeable as to what is going on in this world. Are we even worthy of heaven if we don't hate the things of this world? Never-the-less, that is not our concern. Our concern needs to be listening to and doing what our Lord Jesus Christ asks us to do. So I don't even say "I do not look at my role as being political" because I say my sole is serving the KING - Jesus Christ! Is that political? It is concerning the One who is over all things and it is concerning THE KING OF KINGS and the ruler over all - so maybe? And as for war and peace, it is written 'peace, peace, but there will be no peace' - so the one saying 'peace, peace' is like the one not confronting the truth. We say Jesus Christ is King, and try to make it so in our personal lives.

"Peace, Peace" is what politician say, isn't it. Seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him is what Christians say, because we know that there is not peace in our lives without Him!! So, if I really listen to politicians and political leaders I tend to hear the same thing - "Peace, Peace"! Yet if I really listen to a Christian I hear the Gospel message - which is that Jesus Christ is there for each of us personally! But who listens to Him. Is it the politician who says "peace peace" so they get elected - or is it the religious leader who says "peace peace" so they sound good and religious in front of men. They sound the same to me. The Good News, is not about war and peace in this world, it is about having the Prince of Peace in your life personally!!!

So even when I look at the events in this world, what to I know? Maybe it's best for this world that Trump and Isreal are bombing Iran??? Jesus said these things had to happen, didn't He?

Mark 3:17 “When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be frightened; those things must take place; but that is not yet the end.

So, who am I to say those things must not take place if the Lord said they most take place?? And then is even the religious leader saying they most stop and not take place matching up with what Jesus says to us today????? I am not saying it is good or bad, I am saying let us seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him!!! I tell you, that when I talk to Him about 'politics" of today He tells me it is about powers and principalities and about how He is still over all things!! I need to learn to hate them so I turn to Him. You see - they all want His power for themselves but Christians, real Christians understand that we should want Jesus Christ to have the power even in our lives personally. So we put Him on the throne of our lives - meaning we listen to Him personally and don't go around making ourselves the out to be Him.
 
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Of course, the Lord Jesus Christ is above politics!! Still, He is the KING OF KINGS, and the government over all things thus rests on His shoulders. So what are we talking about when we talk about politics and the Gospel??? The Good News (the Gospel) is that we have been given the King over all things and that to mean we can and are supposed to LISTEN to Him! So if someone (anyone) starts saying "No Kings" what are they tell you?? Are they just making a "political statement" or do we find the Word of God in our mouth? When are talk about the Prince of Persia are we talking about who has control in Iran or the spirit behind that part of the world? If we talk about our battle not being with flesh and blood but the powers, principalities, and the dark spiritual forces of this world, are we talking about Trump vs Iran or are we talking about the spiritual powers in this world and the rebellion against God in general?

Wars and rumor of wars go on, but the Lord personally gives us things to do, at least He will if we indeed to listen to Him. I am not saying we should be unaware and unknowledgeable as to what is going on in this world. Are we even worthy of heaven if we don't hate the things of this world? Never-the-less, that is not our concern. Our concern needs to be listening to and doing what our Lord Jesus Christ asks us to do. So I don't even say "I do not look at my role as being political" because I say my sole is serving the KING - Jesus Christ! Is that political? It is concerning the One who is over all things and it is concerning THE KING OF KINGS and the ruler over all - so maybe? And as for war and peace, it is written 'peace, peace, but there will be no peace' - so the one saying 'peace, peace' is like the one not confronting the truth. We say Jesus Christ is King, and try to make it so in our personal lives.

"Peace, Peace" is what politician say, isn't it. Seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him is what Christians say, because we know that there is not peace in our lives without Him!! So, if I really listen to politicians and political leaders I tend to hear the same thing - "Peace, Peace"! Yet if I really listen to a Christian I hear the Gospel message - which is that Jesus Christ is there for each of us personally! But who listens to Him. Is it the politician who says "peace peace" so they get elected - or is it the religious leader who says "peace peace" so they sound good and religious in front of men. They sound the same to me. The Good News, is not about war and peace in this world, it is about having the Prince of Peace in your life personally!!!

So even when I look at the events in this world, what to I know? Maybe it's best for this world that Trump and Isreal are bombing Iran??? Jesus said these things had to happen, didn't He?

Mark 3:17 “When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be frightened; those things must take place; but that is not yet the end.

So, who am I to say those things must not take place if the Lord said they most take place?? And then is even the religious leader saying they most stop and not take place matching up with what Jesus says to us today????? I am not saying it is good or bad, I am saying let us seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him!!! I tell you, that when I talk to Him about 'politics" of today He tells me it is about powers and principalities and about how He is still over all things!! I need to learn to hate them so I turn to Him. You see - they all want His power for themselves but Christians, real Christians understand that we should want Jesus Christ to have the power even in our lives personally. So we put Him on the throne of our lives - meaning we listen to Him personally and don't go around making ourselves the out to be Him.
You have much thoughtful words to share here. Forgive me if I go too far in responding. It is not my intent to oppose you. I would only ask three things. 1) When you say "is it the religious leader who says "peace peace" so they sound good and religious in front of men?" I would urge you not to judge the Pope as having any such motivation. I'm sure you know leaders in your faith whom you respect and listen to. The Pope is placed in his position by faithful Christians who, right or wrong, rely on him to give leadership, to speak the gospel, to hold church together. He is 100 times more responsible to speak the gospel than any other Christian leader you know. I'm not saying he's right. But he isn't doing it to "sound good and religious in front of men". 2) Jesus is indeed King of Kings. He has a heavenly kingdom. He told us the basic principles for Christians who are part of that kingdom. It's called the Beatitudes. If you say "we put Him on the throne of our lives" then we servants show that by actively carrying out our King's orders issued to us in the Beatitudes. We don't hide our light under a bushel. 3) You are probably aware that you are talking about the Second Coming and how that guides your faith. Many Christians follow your path believing that this world is destined for destruction and doomed. There's nothing to be done except hold to the faith and wait. “Those things must take place". Sit tight and pray for the sound of the trumpet. Maranatha. I won't fault you for such faith held by many. I have a slightly different faith derived directly from Scripture. Simply that Christ's coming has already begun in us. That we participate in bringing about God's Kingdom by expanding kindness and charity throughout the world. I will not fault you for the way you view the Second Coming. I just wanted to let you know that many Christians see it the way I do.
 
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Of course, the Lord Jesus Christ is above politics!! Still, He is the KING OF KINGS, and the government over all things thus rests on His shoulders. So what are we talking about when we talk about politics and the Gospel??? The Good News (the Gospel) is that we have been given the King over all things and that to mean we can and are supposed to LISTEN to Him! So if someone (anyone) starts saying "No Kings" what are they tell you?? Are they just making a "political statement" or do we find the Word of God in our mouth? When are talk about the Prince of Persia are we talking about who has control in Iran or the spirit behind that part of the world? If we talk about our battle not being with flesh and blood but the powers, principalities, and the dark spiritual forces of this world, are we talking about Trump vs Iran or are we talking about the spiritual powers in this world and the rebellion against God in general?

Wars and rumor of wars go on, but the Lord personally gives us things to do, at least He will if we indeed to listen to Him. I am not saying we should be unaware and unknowledgeable as to what is going on in this world. Are we even worthy of heaven if we don't hate the things of this world? Never-the-less, that is not our concern. Our concern needs to be listening to and doing what our Lord Jesus Christ asks us to do. So I don't even say "I do not look at my role as being political" because I say my sole is serving the KING - Jesus Christ! Is that political? It is concerning the One who is over all things and it is concerning THE KING OF KINGS and the ruler over all - so maybe? And as for war and peace, it is written 'peace, peace, but there will be no peace' - so the one saying 'peace, peace' is like the one not confronting the truth. We say Jesus Christ is King, and try to make it so in our personal lives.

"Peace, Peace" is what politician say, isn't it. Seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him is what Christians say, because we know that there is not peace in our lives without Him!! So, if I really listen to politicians and political leaders I tend to hear the same thing - "Peace, Peace"! Yet if I really listen to a Christian I hear the Gospel message - which is that Jesus Christ is there for each of us personally! But who listens to Him. Is it the politician who says "peace peace" so they get elected - or is it the religious leader who says "peace peace" so they sound good and religious in front of men. They sound the same to me. The Good News, is not about war and peace in this world, it is about having the Prince of Peace in your life personally!!!

So even when I look at the events in this world, what to I know? Maybe it's best for this world that Trump and Isreal are bombing Iran??? Jesus said these things had to happen, didn't He?

Mark 3:17 “When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be frightened; those things must take place; but that is not yet the end.

So, who am I to say those things must not take place if the Lord said they most take place?? And then is even the religious leader saying they most stop and not take place matching up with what Jesus says to us today????? I am not saying it is good or bad, I am saying let us seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him!!! I tell you, that when I talk to Him about 'politics" of today He tells me it is about powers and principalities and about how He is still over all things!! I need to learn to hate them so I turn to Him. You see - they all want His power for themselves but Christians, real Christians understand that we should want Jesus Christ to have the power even in our lives personally. So we put Him on the throne of our lives - meaning we listen to Him personally and don't go around making ourselves the out to be Him.
Just because there is a war it does not mean God is behind it or even favors one side or another. I do agree though God allows war and like you believe the truths of the bible. Perhaps the war could benefit many bringing revival/renewal or even something like the Great Awakening. Why? because it shifts the narrative and gets people thinking about God. 9/11 was short lived in that regard, covid had little reaction about God in it, so now we are moving on to bigger stuff (wider and deeper). At some point God will get the world's attention through events beyond our control.
Better if we would just humble ourselves first, but the reality is that the love of money and pride are quite heavy. I am not sure of this war's outcome, or how fast it might end. I am sure that if it is not resolved soon, the country I am in will run out of oil in about 60 days and others nearby will be similar. That is sobering to me. Some might think that will not effect the USA. Really? Yes, you will have electricity, (I may not, unless I leave) but the price changes and some of the strain will still be certain through the whole world. Over dramatic to suggest a worldwide recession with currency collapses is a real possibility? Maybe, but at some point (might not be Iran vs USA) things seem likely to spin out of control far beyond what I can think or imagine.
I think the Pope is right to avoid debate. It a year or less such debate will be meaningless because we will see things more clearly as God sees them and the garbage many have accumulated thinking they were clutching pearls will be thrown out.
 
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Well, I am looking at an article in People. It seems Donald has called Pope Leo "WEAK on Crime". And Leo says he is not afraid of Donald. And Leo intends to preach the Gospel and he is not trying to do something "political". And ones are abusing the Gospel, he says. He will speak against war, and says we need negotiation, instead. He says people are suffering and many are innocent, who are being killed.

So . . . I would say . . . of course we should not have war. But many are not God's people. And they have produced the evil leaders. Their evil leaders started in wombs . . . of mothers . . . who often enough brought them up. So, who am I to say ones noncombatant are innocent victims . . . if their culture produced the ones at the top?

A giant iceberg has a hard and pointed tip. But the tip is not the only part of the iceberg that is ice. Plus, the tip of the iceberg is supported by the giant mass of ice below that tip.

In the United Sates, for example > right now, there are ones at the top who are so criticized. But they came from mother's wombs, and were brought up in "American" families, including by their mothers . . . like pretty much all of us. They were brought up in "democracy". And yet, about half of Americans are ok with killing unborn people and destroying even little children's ability to reproduce.

My real character makes me able to think and do what I do. My character . . . in the sight of God . . . has so much to do with what I can have, for attitudes and perspective, and if I am capable of loving the way God's word means, and following how Jesus is our example.

God's love in one's character makes a person > all-loving > not picking and judging who is good enough for us to love >

"For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" Jesus says in Matthew 5:46.

And Jesus has us loving our enemies. God loves every person. And His love in our character has us likewise loving any and all people. It is in our character . . . so there is no "choosing" to love . . . because Jesus in us shares with us how He so loves because of how He is.

And this character of Christ has Jesus so He is "gentle and lowly in heart" > in Matthew 11:29. So, in our loving in Jesus we have gentle and humble emotions and feelings . . . not those cruel things of hate and unforgiveness and depression and boredom and loneliness and anger and frustration and fear and worry. God's love loves us, ourselves, then, by sharing with us His own immunity almighty against any and all cruel and dominating feelings and emotions which are of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2). Satanic feelings and ways of reacting can work so hard, but they can not overcome how our Father's love in us protects us >

"You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world." (1 John 4:4)

And God does not have us abuse each other with arguing and complaining >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing," (Philippians 2:14)

But, in America claiming to be democratic > how much arguing is there? Arguing can be abusive, hurting families and giving kids a bad example so they grow up not knowing how to relate in a close relationship of marriage and other intimate sharing and caring as family.

Arguing is violence, then. I wonder if Pope Leo gives this much attention. Arguing could be in the bottom of the iceberg > so that, at home, ones do not learn how to love and relate; and so then they grow up with others who don't know how to love; and together they can go after the drinking and smoking and immorality and drugs and abortion and perversion . . . all in seeking pleasure to make them feel something nicer than their own selfish sin nature. They are desperate, then, for pleasure. And they even can make an identity out of their preference for pleasure > preferences not being really sexual, but the preference is for pleasure. And from this come the wars >

"Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?" (James 4:1)

Arguing, then, can be fighting which comes from what we demand and expect for pleasure and the control to get it. And this is not loving, then, but abuse. Arguing, then, is a basic sin . . . down in the dark 2/3 of the iceberg which is at home > below the iceberg's political and other part that is showing above water. Arguing can be supporting children to grow up not knowing how to love, so that they are dark and weak enough to give in to various cruel feelings and emotions that drive them to pleasure and to fighting to get it and keep it. And from the culture of this are produced the corrupt and ruined people in higher politics.

So, if Pope Leo tries to have a sword fight with the tip of the iceberg and even were to chop off the top . . . of the violence > that could be like how killing the Iranian top people only makes room for the next ones. You can decry the violence so cold and anti-love; however . . . there's a whole iceberg of it and negotiation won't get rid of it.

What works is if God warms us in His love and changes our character to be gentle and humble like Jesus (Matthew 11:29) and all-loving and generously forgiving in prayer with hope for any and all people > here is what our Apostle Paul says to do, in prayer > "first of all" > 1 Timothy 2:1-4. God uses prayer, and our good example, at home.

This will get all that God is going to do.

"Therefore submit to God." (in James 4:7)

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

May God do all He is able, then, to change us to how He desires for us to be submissive to Him, in His own peace ruling us. And this is now, how God is able . . . and already doing this in us who obey God in His own peace.
 
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Well, I am looking at an article in People. It seems Donald has called Pope Leo "WEAK on Crime". And Leo says he is not afraid of Donald. And Leo intends to preach the Gospel and he is not trying to do something "political". And ones are abusing the Gospel, he says. He will speak against war, and says we need negotiation, instead. He says people are suffering and many are innocent, who are being killed.

So . . . I would say . . . of course we should not have war. But many are not God's people. And they have produced the evil leaders. Their evil leaders started in wombs . . . of mothers . . . who often enough brought them up. So, who am I to say ones noncombatant are innocent victims . . . if their culture produced the ones at the top?

A giant iceberg has a hard and pointed tip. But the tip is not the only part of the iceberg that is ice. Plus, the tip of the iceberg is supported by the giant mass of ice below that tip.

In the United Sates, for example > right now, there are ones at the top who are so criticized. But they came from mother's wombs, and were brought up in "American" families, including by their mothers . . . like pretty much all of us. They were brought up in "democracy". And yet, about half of Americans are ok with killing unborn people and destroying even little children's ability to reproduce.

My real character makes me able to think and do what I do. My character . . . in the sight of God . . . has so much to do with what I can have, for attitudes and perspective, and if I am capable of loving the way God's word means, and following how Jesus is our example.

God's love in one's character makes a person > all-loving > not picking and judging who is good enough for us to love >

"For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" Jesus says in Matthew 5:46.

And Jesus has us loving our enemies. God loves every person. And His love in our character has us likewise loving any and all people. It is in our character . . . so there is no "choosing" to love . . . because Jesus in us shares with us how He so loves because of how He is.

And this character of Christ has Jesus so He is "gentle and lowly in heart" > in Matthew 11:29. So, in our loving in Jesus we have gentle and humble emotions and feelings . . . not those cruel things of hate and unforgiveness and depression and boredom and loneliness and anger and frustration and fear and worry. God's love loves us, ourselves, then, by sharing with us His own immunity almighty against any and all cruel and dominating feelings and emotions which are of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2). Satanic feelings and ways of reacting can work so hard, but they can not overcome how our Father's love in us protects us >

"You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world." (1 John 4:4)

And God does not have us abuse each other with arguing and complaining >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing," (Philippians 2:14)

But, in America claiming to be democratic > how much arguing is there? Arguing can be abusive, hurting families and giving kids a bad example so they grow up not knowing how to relate in a close relationship of marriage and other intimate sharing and caring as family.

Arguing is violence, then. I wonder if Pope Leo gives this much attention. Arguing could be in the bottom of the iceberg > so that, at home, ones do not learn how to love and relate; and so then they grow up with others who don't know how to love; and together they can go after the drinking and smoking and immorality and drugs and abortion and perversion . . . all in seeking pleasure to make them feel something nicer than their own selfish sin nature. They are desperate, then, for pleasure. And they even can make an identity out of their preference for pleasure > preferences not being really sexual, but the preference is for pleasure. And from this come the wars >

"Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?" (James 4:1)

Arguing, then, can be fighting which comes from what we demand and expect for pleasure and the control to get it. And this is not loving, then, but abuse. Arguing, then, is a basic sin . . . down in the dark 2/3 of the iceberg which is at home > below the iceberg's political and other part that is showing above water. Arguing can be supporting children to grow up not knowing how to love, so that they are dark and weak enough to give in to various cruel feelings and emotions that drive them to pleasure and to fighting to get it and keep it. And from the culture of this are produced the corrupt and ruined people in higher politics.

So, if Pope Leo tries to have a sword fight with the tip of the iceberg and even were to chop off the top . . . of the violence > that could be like how killing the Iranian top people only makes room for the next ones. You can decry the violence so cold and anti-love; however . . . there's a whole iceberg of it and negotiation won't get rid of it.

What works is if God warms us in His love and changes our character to be gentle and humble like Jesus (Matthew 11:29) and all-loving and generously forgiving in prayer with hope for any and all people > here is what our Apostle Paul says to do, in prayer > "first of all" > 1 Timothy 2:1-4. God uses prayer, and our good example, at home.

This will get all that God is going to do.

"Therefore submit to God." (in James 4:7)

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

May God do all He is able, then, to change us to how He desires for us to be submissive to Him, in His own peace ruling us. And this is now, how God is able . . . and already doing this in us who obey God in His own peace.
First, especially in this case, I want to thank you for this long, thoughtful reply. I hope you realize I mean that. And I am grateful for the depth of your faith. And I would not change it. I say all that because what I must say, what my conscience demands me to say, and what my faith requires me to say will almost certainly infuriate you. (And, in a way, this is pretty much doing what I'm telling you not to do.) I am sorry for that. "So, if Pope Leo tries to have a sword fight with the tip of the iceberg." What you have presented here is sophistry. Threading the needle of logic to stitch together a conclusion that is not right. I know you mean well. But please think more. 1) You cannot call the Pope's words arguing. He has no interest in arguing with the U.S. Administration. You don't have to believe what he says. But it is not arguing. When an unbeliever gives you a chance to witness, are you starting an argument? Are you having a dispute? No. You are witnessing. You need not agree with the Pope's witness, but he is witnessing, not arguing. If the unbeliever you are witnessing to responds angrily and accuses you of some bad thing, does that mean you react and fight with him? No. We know the world will often not take kindly to our witness. For that reason, disagree with the Pope if you will, but don't accuse him of being bad or fighting back. He is proclaiming the Gospel as he knows it to be. Perhaps he is wrong. But anyone who calls him evil is such themselves for they do the same things. 2) "if their culture produced the ones at the top". Therefore, they are complicit in evil. Think of ourselves. Did our Evangelical Christian culture result in Trump being president? Many will argue that it did. Does that mean we also are all the bad things that have been shown to be true of Trump? No, of course not. We cannot use ‘they allow evil rulers' to excuse being slaughtered in war. Nowhere in the New Testament is it written that the slaughter of unbelievers is their own fault. Our calling is to bring the Good News to them. Not slaughter them all and let God sort them out. There will be a day of Judgement. God makes it clear in the Bible that it will be His day. It will not be delegated to a human army.

3) "abortion and perversion". You, as a Christian in a democratic America, have every right to hold sin to be what you believe it to be. I don't contest that. However, I will say very, very few people you accuse of falling into sin are doing it to get pleasure or to serve their own selfish interests. In almost every case where you point a finger, you would learn the real and human circumstances leading them to make their choices. Further, I believe you would discover their choices were the healthiest ones for both them and society at large. And last of all, I believe we, as Christians, are always looking to define sin in a way that allows us to victimize those least able to defend themselves. And sadly, that is not driven by intended cruelty. It is, instead, driven by the innate insecurity of humanity that drives us to feel fearful and find targets for our anxiety. Many Christians have found freedom from that innate anxiety through Christ and begin to see the good in others. But many have not.
 
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The Bible is a political book. Jesus was crucified over politics. Religion and politics go hand in hand.

Neither Candace Owens, Charlie Kirk are/were political.

It is impossible for religion to not be political..

This is why I am kind of a proponent of Christian Nationalism.

This country needs to return to Jesus, and Pastors need to be able to talk about most subjects from the pulpits.

Confusing religion, with being political only prevents important topics from being discussed in church.
We need to be able to talk about both!
 
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In the United States, I know of no subject that cannot be expounded from the pulpit. There are many subjects which a given congregation would never tolerate. There are certain subjects which will, like physics, generate an equal and opposite reaction. There are certain subjects which a given denomination will not allow. And those are all within the bounds of a given religion. The U.S. has never and never will restrain the free speech of preachers...but they love to use the fear of it to motivate their parishioners. If a group of Christians cannot get their message across in a land that guarantees free speech and freedom of religion, perhaps their message is bad or their communication skills are. (Just kidding. It isn't true. It's not the inability to preach the message. It's the underlying fear and anxiety that chooses to perceive opposing arguments as persecution. To perceive any violent act, however rare, not as a tragedy, but as clear evidence of a vast conspiracy to destroy them all.) (I’m limiting my responses to one. More mansplaining feels like discounting your kindness shown by offering a comment.)
 
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tobelieveinHim

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While I don't mind mansplaining, and have no problem with the term, either
This is not a subject I need mansplaining about. I am well aware some of the subjects Pastors avoid
And we might have some very differing beliefs on what that is..
Not that I don't understand
 
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Well, I am a Christian but I think of myself as non-political too. =\ And I don't shove my beliefs on other people either.

I am actually more of what you call a closed-closet Christian. Meaning that I read my Bible, pray, and worship at home or at church but never out in public. I never do anything religious out in public. You could be looking right at me and not know I was a Christian. You might even think I was secular!
 
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RDKirk

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Well, I am a Christian but I think of myself as non-political too. =\ And I don't shove my beliefs on other people either.

I am actually more of what you call a closed-closet Christian. Meaning that I read my Bible, pray, and worship at home or at church but never out in public. I never do anything religious out in public. You could be looking right at me and not know I was a Christian. You might even think I was secular!
That's not the flex you think it is.
 
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RDKirk

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Agreed! As Christians we are called to be set apart!! Amen.
“Let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.” -- Matthew 5

“Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that… they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.” -- 1 Peter 2

“Do all things without grumbling... that you may be blameless and innocent... among whom you shine as lights in the world.” -- Philippians 2

“Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works… so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.” -- Titus 2

Good works are meant to be observable -->
Observation leads to evaluation by others -->
That evaluation ideally results in glory directed toward God, or at minimum, the disarming of criticism.
 
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com7fy8

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2) "if their culture produced the ones at the top". Therefore, they are complicit in evil. Think of ourselves. Did our Evangelical Christian culture result in Trump being president? Many will argue that it did. Does that mean we also are all the bad things that have been shown to be true of Trump?
I did not say they are complicit, but they have helped to produce the product. They didn't actually plan the result; so they are not really complicit. When you do things the wrong way, you do not control what will come as the result.

If the United States ever was really a Christian country . . . how could what is Christian give rise to what is now? God gives "increase" > 1 Corinthians 3:6-7 > once He gets His thing started, He keeps improving on it.

I have heard ones say things like, vote for the lesser of two evils. Of course, this can mean they can't produce a genuinely Christian person who is qualified to lead the country. And this could mean they don't have enough genuinely Christian people to vote in a genuinely Christian person.

And I have noted that in the United States there has been something like a fifty-percent divorce rate for both Christian and non-Christian marriages. So, have children of such marriages been brought up to know how to love in a close relationship?? And in case they do not know how to love, they can go after what is not love . . . with peers who likewise do not know. And then they can be into drugs and immorality and other stuff.

But I don't hear more-public "Christian" leaders and activists talking about this. If we don't like a product, we need to stop doing what is helping to produce it!! Just fighting with the product is not going to work.
 
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Well, I am a Christian but I think of myself as non-political too. =\ And I don't shove my beliefs on other people either.

I am actually more of what you call a closed-closet Christian. Meaning that I read my Bible, pray, and worship at home or at church but never out in public. I never do anything religious out in public. You could be looking right at me and not know I was a Christian. You might even think I was secular!
Definitely. This is a healing, self-sustaining path that many Christians choose. I would just point out that a great many totally secular, even atheistic people are deeply involved in charity and social justice. So I would encourage you to do that as well and none need know why.
 
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Maine Progressive

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I did not say they are complicit, but they have helped to produce the product. They didn't actually plan the result; so they are not really complicit. When you do things the wrong way, you do not control what will come as the result.

If the United States ever was really a Christian country . . . how could what is Christian give rise to what is now? God gives "increase" > 1 Corinthians 3:6-7 > once He gets His thing started, He keeps improving on it.

I have heard ones say things like, vote for the lesser of two evils. Of course, this can mean they can't produce a genuinely Christian person who is qualified to lead the country. And this could mean they don't have enough genuinely Christian people to vote in a genuinely Christian person.

And I have noted that in the United States there has been something like a fifty-percent divorce rate for both Christian and non-Christian marriages. So, have children of such marriages been brought up to know how to love in a close relationship?? And in case they do not know how to love, they can go after what is not love . . . with peers who likewise do not know. And then they can be into drugs and immorality and other stuff.

But I don't hear more-public "Christian" leaders and activists talking about this. If we don't like a product, we need to stop doing what is helping to produce it!! Just fighting with the product is not going to work.
"If we don't like a product, we need to stop doing what is helping to produce it!! Just fighting with the product is not going to work." That last line is what I adamantly agree with. As far as I can tell that is exactly what many conservative Christians are enabling and choosing to ignore the resulting consequences. Look at all the rising excuses for cruelty done in the name of the Bible. For example, yes divorce is overwhelming our culture. Do we look at the real causes? No. We waste our time on the immorality of women and froth at the mouth about abortion. Donning our holy robe to pick out a verse that was aimed at the Pharisees for loosening the rules against divorce in order to aid the patriarchy by avoiding responsibility for the harm divorce would cause the woman in that society. Instead we use that verse improperly to condemn something Christ wasn't even referring to in our modern society which causes no one any harm....just makes us look holier than the rest. As you say, I believe this stuff is exactly "helping to produce it!!" Cheap morality.
 
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Pope Leo XIV: “I do not look at my role as being political, a politician. I don’t want to get into a debate with him. I don’t think that the message of the Gospel is meant to be abused in the way that some people are doing.” This I admire. To rise above politics while being unafraid to speak the message of the Gospel.
Yeah, far too many are using the "Gospel" for their own agenda and financial gain, instead of simply seeking to point people to God. At the end of the day, we each must choose between the allure of money, popularity and influence vs the sincere milk of the word.
 
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joechristianwarrior

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Well, I am a Christian but I think of myself as non-political too. =\ And I don't shove my beliefs on other people either.

I am actually more of what you call a closed-closet Christian. Meaning that I read my Bible, pray, and worship at home or at church but never out in public. I never do anything religious out in public. You could be looking right at me and not know I was a Christian. You might even think I was secular!
What do you think of Jesus saying to go out into all the world to share His good news with others? (Matthew 28:19-20) Or His command for us to let our light shine?
 
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