JD Vance says talks failed due to Iran’s refusal to give up nuclear programme

Michie said:

“We need to see an affirmative commitment that [Iran] will not seek a nuclear weapon, and they will not seek the tools that would enable them to quickly achieve a nuclear weapon,” he said. “That is the core goal of the president of the United States, and that’s what we’ve tried to achieve through these negotiations.”

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lol, they agreed to that deal 12 years ago. Trump ripped it up. So much winning.

Michie said:

Iranian delegates in Islamabad say Washington needs to do more to win their trust if talks to resolve US-Iran conflict are to be successful

The US vice-president, JD Vance, has blamed the failure of marathon negotiations with Iran on the country’s refusal to abandon its nuclear weapons programme, while Iranian delegates have claimed Washington needs to do more to win their trust.

Vance, who left Islamabad on Sunday morning after 21 hours of talks with Iranian officials in the Pakistani capital, said his team had been very clear on its red lines, as hopes faded of a quick end to the conflict that began on 28 February.

The vice-president said he spoke with Donald Trump at least half a dozen times during the talks, and one of the most significant points of difference between the two sides was on Iran’s nuclear programme.

“We need to see an affirmative commitment that [Iran] will not seek a nuclear weapon, and they will not seek the tools that would enable them to quickly achieve a nuclear weapon,” he said. “That is the core goal of the president of the United States, and that’s what we’ve tried to achieve through these negotiations.”

Vance added that while the failure to reach an agreement in Islamabad was “bad news”, it was “bad news for Iran much more than it’s bad news for the United States of America”.

Continued below.

JD Vance says talks failed due to Iran’s refusal to give up nuclear programme

Iranian delegates in Islamabad say Washington needs to do more to win their trust if talks to resolve US-Iran conflict are to be successful

www.theguardian.com

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Iran knows they cannot destroy Israel without an atomic bomb, evil so drives this regime that such a goal is the priority, a priority above the welfare of their people.

Valletta said:

Iran knows they cannot destroy Israel without an atomic bomb, evil so drives this regime that such a goal is the priority, a priority above the welfare of their people.

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The Twelver Shiite ideology of Iran does not require destroying Israel--that is the task of the Mahdi when he is finally revealed. It is very likely Iran could come to terms with an agreement that prevents Zionists (and American Christian Nationalists) from pursuing a "greater Israel" goal that would put Isreal on their border.

What Iran knows for sure--because the US keeps demonstrating it--is that the US will continue to attack them until they have an atomic bomb to protect themselves. The dead bones of Qaddafi and Saddam--and the fact that Kim Jong Un is still alive and kicking--confirm it.

RDKirk said:

The Twelver Shiite ideology of Iran does not require destroying Israel--that is the task of the Mahdi when he is finally revealed. It is very likely Iran could come to terms with an agreement that prevents Zionists (and American Christian Nationalists) from pursuing a "greater Israel" goal that would put Isreal on their border.

What Iran knows for sure--because the US keeps demonstrating it--is that the US will continue to attack them until they have an atomic bomb to protect themselves. The dead bones of Qaddafi and Saddam--and the fact that Kim Jong Un is still alive and kicking--confirm it.

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They are waiting until the 12th Imam is revealed.

iluvatar5150 said:

lol, they agreed to that deal 12 years ago. Trump ripped it up. So much winning.

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But Iran kept enriching uranium anyway. It's why Netanyahu said the Obama nuclear deal with Iran was a bad deal.

Valletta said:

They are waiting until the 12th Imam is revealed.

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Yes, they are.

Emphasis on "waiting." Or in their concept, they are "persisting."

It's their intention not to be overcome as a people, but "persisting" does not mean doing the Mahdi's job. It does mean fighting back when threatened or attacked. It does mean maintaining a geopolitical situation that allows them to persist.

JimR-OCDS said:

But Iran kept enriching uranium anyway.

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The deal put heavy restrictions on Iran's ability to enrich uranium. According to the inspectors, they were complying with the agreement when we backed out.

JimR-OCDS said:

It's why Netanyahu said the Obama nuclear deal with Iran was a bad deal.

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Right, because Netanyahu is an objective, unbiased actor in all of this.

But even if he was right and it was a bad deal, how is it in any way worse than the no deal that Mr. Art of the Deal gave us?

The original plan would've had Iran cut their number of old centrifuges by 68% (19k down to 6k); give up all of their advanced centrifuges (1k to 0); cut their low-enriched uranium stockpiles by 96% (7100kg to 300kg); and give up all of their medium-enriched uranium (196kg to 0).... by 2025. Instead, what we got under the Trump plan was, over that same period of time, Iran more than doubling the size of the medium-enriched uranium stockpiles they had before the Obama deal.

You guys were afraid of Iran continuing to enrich uranium, so you tore up the one thing holding them back, replaced it with nothing, and then got exactly the outcome you said you didn't want. Now we're spending billions of dollars on a war to try to get the outcome that the JCPOA could've possibly provided.

Do you see why the rest of us see Trump's handling of this as idiotic? Do you see why the rest of us see MAGA's support of his actions and critique of the original plan as not serious? The only conclusion I can come to to explain MAGA's position is that you're all just blood-thirsty and looking for excuses to kill Iranians.

iluvatar5150 said:

The deal put heavy restrictions on Iran's ability to enrich uranium. According to the inspectors, they were complying with the agreement when we backed out.

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The Iranian government didn't allow inspectors into various parts of Iran during Obama's deal. In other words, they lied about their
goals to create a bomb, just as we recently discovered that they had long range missile capabilities which allowed them to reach Germany. They denied having such missiles for years. The current Iranian regime cannot be trusted and never could be for the past 47 years.

iluvatar5150 said:

The deal put heavy restrictions on Iran's ability to enrich uranium. According to the inspectors, they were complying with the agreement when we backed out.


Right, because Netanyahu is an objective, unbiased actor in all of this.

But even if he was right and it was a bad deal, how is it in any way worse than the no deal that Mr. Art of the Deal gave us?

The original plan would've had Iran cut their number of old centrifuges by 68% (19k down to 6k); give up all of their advanced centrifuges (1k to 0); cut their low-enriched uranium stockpiles by 96% (7100kg to 300kg); and give up all of their medium-enriched uranium (196kg to 0).... by 2025. Instead, what we got under the Trump plan was, over that same period of time, Iran more than doubling the size of the medium-enriched uranium stockpiles they had before the Obama deal.

You guys were afraid of Iran continuing to enrich uranium, so you tore up the one thing holding them back, replaced it with nothing, and then got exactly the outcome you said you didn't want. Now we're spending billions of dollars on a war to try to get the outcome that the JCPOA could've possibly provided.

Do you see why the rest of us see Trump's handling of this as idiotic? Do you see why the rest of us see MAGA's support of his actions and critique of the original plan as not serious? The only conclusion I can come to to explain MAGA's position is that you're all just blood-thirsty and looking for excuses to kill Iranians.

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I do see why so many are seeing Trumps' handling of Iran as idiotic, it's called "falling for fake new." The United States was just one of many countries that were signatory to the Iranian agreement. The agreement with Iran and the other signatories did not expire until late 2025. Trump spotted the flaws in the agreement right away and saw how it would be a path for Iran to create a nuclear weapon and wisely wanted no part of it. And Trump was proven right, Iran indeed cheated and was close to a nuclear weapon. Some were slow to call out Iran:
Others called them out earlier:

JimR-OCDS said:

The Iranian government didn't allow inspectors into various parts of Iran during Obama's deal. In other words, they lied about their
goals to create a bomb, just as we recently discovered that they had long range missile capabilities which allowed them to reach Germany. They denied having such missiles for years. The current Iranian regime cannot be trusted and never could be for the past 47 years.

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If they were violating the terms of the deal, why did Trump’s administration certify them as being in compliance? Was his administration lying? Were they tricked?

Valletta said:

I do see why so many are seeing Trumps' handling of Iran as idiotic, it's called "falling for fake new." The United States was just one of many countries that were signatory to the Iranian agreement. The agreement with Iran and the other signatories did not expire until late 2025. Trump spotted the flaws in the agreement right away and saw how it would be a path for Iran to create a nuclear weapon and wisely wanted no part of it. And Trump was proven right, Iran indeed cheated and was close to a nuclear weapon. Some were slow to call out Iran:

Watchdog finds Iran failing to meet nuclear obligations

Iran condemns the resolution passed by the IAEA's board of governors as "political" and says it will open a new uranium enrichment facility.

www.bbc.com

Others called them out earlier:

EU’s Mogherini: Iran breaches not ‘significant’ enough to escalate

EU ministers discuss pact as Washington and Tehran stick to hard lines.

www.politico.eu

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God this is such a stupid take.

It’s not “cheating” if there was no deal, which there wasn’t after Trump backed out. Trump supposedly saw that the deal was flawed, so he tore up the deal and replaced it with nothing, resulting in the very outcome you guys supposedly feared.

The most charitable way to describe the outcome of Trump’s actions is that they made no difference in the trajectory of Iran’s nuclear program, but removed the political cover that would’ve been provided by working within Obama’s framework. IOW, Trump can’t blame Obama, since we’ve been living under Trump’s plan for 9 years.

None of this is “fake news.” It’s reality. The only fake news here is the idolatrous propaganda fog you seem to be living within.

iluvatar5150 said:

If they were violating the terms of the deal, why did Trump’s administration certify them as being in compliance? Was his administration lying? Were they tricked?

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In 2017 the Trump administration was critical but did not drop out:

The Trump administration declined to certify in 2018.

iluvatar5150 said:

God this is such a stupid take.

It’s not “cheating” if there was no deal, which there wasn’t after Trump backed out. Trump supposedly saw that the deal was flawed, so he tore up the deal and replaced it with nothing, resulting in the very outcome you guys supposedly feared.

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Again, multiple countries were part of the accord with Iran until the accord came to an end in late 2025. Obviously Iran believed they were part of the deal until 2025, see the article:

Valletta said:

In 2017 the Trump administration was critical but did not drop out:

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/trump-says-iran-is-violating-spirit-of-iran-nuclear-deal-idUSKCN1BP2UZ/

The Trump administration declined to certify in 2018.

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They didn't just decline to certify. They officially backed us out of it.

Valletta said:

Again, multiple countries were part of the accord with Iran until the accord came to an end in late 2025. Obviously Iran believed they were part of the deal until 2025, see the article:

Iran says restrictions on nuclear programme ‘terminated’ as deal expires

Iran also expresses commitment to diplomacy as landmark 10-year nuclear deal with Western powers officially ends.

www.aljazeera.com

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That's not what happened.

They said they'd be abide by the terms if the US lifted our sanctions, which didn't happen. We re-implemented sanctions in 2018 and that was basically it. This pronouncement in 2025 is just sort of an acknowledgement of the official end of the original agreement.

iluvatar5150 said:

That's not what happened.

They said they'd be abide by the terms if the US lifted our sanctions, which didn't happen. We re-implemented sanctions in 2018 and that was basically it. This pronouncement in 2025 is just sort of an acknowledgement of the official end of the original agreement.

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You have a good imagination. The U.K. was a major signatory to the deal, here's an assessment from 2024 by the House of Commons:

The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA or Iran nuclear deal) is an
agreement reached in 2015 between Iran, the UK, China, France, Germany,
Russia, and the US (the P5+1), to limit the Iranian nuclear programme in
exchange for sanctions relief. It was endorsed by UN Security Council
Resolution 2231 (2015).
The JCPOA agreement does not expire until October 2025. However, a
significant milestone was reached on 18 October 2023 (Transition Day) when
all remaining nuclear-related sanctions against Iran under UN Security
Council Resolution 2231, including restrictions on ballistic missile and sensitive
technologies, expired.
The UK, France and Germany (referred to as the E3) said, however, that Iran’s
“consistent and severe non-compliance with its JCPOA commitments”
warranted the retention of sanctions and, as such, the nuclear-related
sanctions set out in UNSCR 2231 would instead be transferred into their
domestic sanctions regimes and existing UK and EU nuclear-related sanctions
would be maintained beyond the October deadline.
Status of Iran’s nuclear programme
Iran maintains that its nuclear programme is peaceful and that it has no
plans to develop nuclear weapons.
Since May 2019, however, Iran has continued to violate the terms of the JCPOA
agreement. It has lifted the cap on its stockpile of uranium, which is now 30
times the level permitted; increased its enrichment activities to 60%,
significantly beyond the 3.67% permitted under the JCPOA

Valletta said:

You have a good imagination. The U.K. was a major signatory to the deal, here's an assessment from 2024 by the House of Commons:

The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA or Iran nuclear deal) is an
agreement reached in 2015 between Iran, the UK, China, France, Germany,
Russia, and the US (the P5+1), to limit the Iranian nuclear programme in
exchange for sanctions relief. It was endorsed by UN Security Council
Resolution 2231 (2015).
The JCPOA agreement does not expire until October 2025. However, a
significant milestone was reached on 18 October 2023 (Transition Day) when
all remaining nuclear-related sanctions against Iran under UN Security
Council Resolution 2231, including restrictions on ballistic missile and sensitive
technologies, expired.
The UK, France and Germany (referred to as the E3) said, however, that Iran’s
“consistent and severe non-compliance with its JCPOA commitments”
warranted the retention of sanctions and, as such, the nuclear-related
sanctions set out in UNSCR 2231 would instead be transferred into their
domestic sanctions regimes and existing UK and EU nuclear-related sanctions
would be maintained beyond the October deadline.
Status of Iran’s nuclear programme
Iran maintains that its nuclear programme is peaceful and that it has no
plans to develop nuclear weapons.
Since May 2019, however, Iran has continued to violate the terms of the JCPOA
agreement. It has lifted the cap on its stockpile of uranium, which is now 30
times the level permitted; increased its enrichment activities to 60%,
significantly beyond the 3.67% permitted under the JCPOA

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9870/CBP-9870.pdf

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I have a good imagination, huh?

This is from your link:


It doesn’t matter that the other signatories didn’t impose their own sanctions when the sanctions with real teeth come from the US.

iluvatar5150 said:

If they were violating the terms of the deal, why did Trump’s administration certify them as being in compliance? Was his administration lying? Were they tricked?

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If I remember correctly, Trump threw out the Obama Iran nuke deal. I don't remember that Trump certified that they were in compliance.
If he did, he was wrong as it was proven.

iluvatar5150 said:

I have a good imagination, huh?

This is from your link:

The Iranian Government has linked its violations to the failure of JCPOA​

signatories to meet their commitments under the deal and to deliver​

sanctions relief. It has also stated that it would return to its obligations under​

the JCPOA if sanctions were lifted.​

​

Adoption of the JCPOA was declared on 18 October 2015 (Adoption Day), after​

which the provisions of the JCPOA came into effect. The lifting of sanctions​

occurred on 16 January 2016 (Implementation Day). Despite Iran’s verified compliance with the agreement by the IAEA, the US withdrew from the deal in​

2018 and reimposed all US sanctions. The remaining signatories to the JCPOA​

did not follow suit.​

​

As stated above, in May 2018 the United States withdrew from the agreement​

and unilaterally re-imposed sanctions. The remaining signatories to the​

JCPOA did not follow suit.​

​

It doesn’t matter that the other signatories didn’t impose their own sanctions when the sanctions with real teeth come from the US.

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The JCPOA didn't essentially disappear when the U.S. left as you claimed. Are you arguing that when one country dropped out Iran then had every right to work on a nuclear weapon and missiles that could reach London? A number of countries involved ignored the sanctions and some even did workarounds for Iran. Iran never dropped out, they simply continued to lie and continued their program of evil. We should, as a country, celebrate how successful the bombing of Iran has been rather than jump through hoops and claim that Trump, the only president with enough smarts to realize the Obama plan was a path to a nuclear weapon and enough fortitude to act, so successfully reigned destruction upon Iran's ability to wage war. Instead people are, once again, jumping through hoops to shift any blame they can on Trump, this time for Iran's evil actions.

JimR-OCDS said:

If I remember correctly, Trump threw out the Obama Iran nuke deal. I don't remember that Trump certified that they were in compliance.

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Perhaps you ought to bone up on details like that before arguing about it.

JimR-OCDS said:

If he did, he was wrong as it was proven.

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That they have more enriched uranium now doesn't mean they had it in 2018 when he pulled out. The other signatorees agreed that they were in compliance at the time.

Valletta said:

The JCPOA didn't essentially disappear when the U.S. left as you claimed. Are you arguing that when one country dropped out Iran then had every right to work on a nuclear weapon and missiles that could reach London?

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I don't contend that anybody has a right to do anything. This isn't about rights. The deal was for Iran to do a certain set of things (e.g. sell off the uranium, mothball the centrifuges) and, in exchange, sanctions would be lifted.

Trump unilaterally re-imposed sanctions at a time when everybody else agreed that Iran was holding up their end of the bargain. WE were the ones who broke the deal.

Typically, when one party breaches the terms of an agreement, that releases the other party from their obligation to abide by the terms of the agreement. Things are more complicated with a multi-party agreement, but the US is a behemoth with control over the global banking system, we have more weight to throw around than the rest of the parties and whatever we decide is what matters the most. So, even though the agreement still existed on paper, in any practical sense, it was toast, since the Europeans can't do a whole lot to ease the burden of our sanctions. Where's Iran's incentive to follow along when they're already being punished?

That's why sanctions should be used more like a scalpel than a sledgehammer. They only work then there's a way to get out of them. If you're going to be punished regardless, then there's no incentive to shape up.

Valletta said:

A number of countries involved ignored the sanctions and some even did workarounds for Iran. Iran never dropped out, they simply continued to lie and continued their program of evil.

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They were in compliance until 2019, a year after Trump reimposed sanctions.

Valletta said:

We should, as a country, celebrate how successful the bombing of Iran has been

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Yes, I celebrate the bombing of a girls' school. Death to Iran(ian children)!!!

Valletta said:

rather than jump through hoops and claim that Trump, the only president with enough smarts to realize the Obama plan was a path to a nuclear weapon and enough fortitude to act

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He didn't act. He waited eight years to act. It was under his arrangement that Iran kept developing nukes.

I don't have any misguided hope about being able to convince you, but I hope some other folks reading this can realize how delusional the MAGA position on this is. We had the Obama plan in place for 1 year, during which Iran was abiding by its terms and starting to draw down their stockpiles. Then we had 8 years of the Trump plan, during which Iran reversed course and started building their stockpiles again.

You don't have to have any faith in the good will of the Iranian leadership to realize that Trump's actions completely undermined any efficacy the original plan could have had and any willingness on Iran's part to play ball. What Trump did was akin to making every prison sentence a life sentence, then complain about prison violence going up. After all, if there are fewer incentives for good behavior, you're going to wind up with less good behavior.

iluvatar5150 said:

Perhaps you ought to bone up on details like that before arguing about it.



That they have more enriched uranium now doesn't mean they had it in 2018 when he pulled out. The other signatorees agreed that they were in compliance at the time.




I don't contend that anybody has a right to do anything. This isn't about rights. The deal was for Iran to do a certain set of things (e.g. sell off the uranium, mothball the centrifuges) and, in exchange, sanctions would be lifted.

Trump unilaterally re-imposed sanctions at a time when everybody else agreed that Iran was holding up their end of the bargain. WE were the ones who broke the deal.

Typically, when one party breaches the terms of an agreement, that releases the other party from their obligation to abide by the terms of the agreement. Things are more complicated with a multi-party agreement, but the US is a behemoth with control over the global banking system, we have more weight to throw around than the rest of the parties and whatever we decide is what matters the most. So, even though the agreement still existed on paper, in any practical sense, it was toast, since the Europeans can't do a whole lot to ease the burden of our sanctions. Where's Iran's incentive to follow along when they're already being punished?

That's why sanctions should be used more like a scalpel than a sledgehammer. They only work then there's a way to get out of them. If you're going to be punished regardless, then there's no incentive to shape up.



They were in compliance until 2019, a year after Trump reimposed sanctions.



Yes, I celebrate the bombing of a girls' school. Death to Iran(ian children)!!!



He didn't act. He waited eight years to act. It was under his arrangement that Iran kept developing nukes.

I don't have any misguided hope about being able to convince you, but I hope some other folks reading this can realize how delusional the MAGA position on this is. We had the Obama plan in place for 1 year, during which Iran was abiding by its terms and starting to draw down their stockpiles. Then we had 8 years of the Trump plan, during which Iran reversed course and started building their stockpiles again.

You don't have to have any faith in the good will of the Iranian leadership to realize that Trump's actions completely undermined any efficacy the original plan could have had and any willingness on Iran's part to play ball. What Trump did was akin to making every prison sentence a life sentence, then complain about prison violence going up. After all, if there are fewer incentives for good behavior, you're going to wind up with less good behavior.

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Trump simply didn't want our country to be part of a deal that gave Iran a clear path to a nuclear weapon. So Trump ACTED by withdrawing the United States from the deal. When Trump pulled the U.S. out of the deal Iran and other countries could have withdrawn from the deal. NONE DID. Iran stayed in the deal as did the U.K. and Germany and France and China and Russia. From that decision on Iran and Iran alone violated the treaty still in place with those countries. There is no justification to make excuses for the Iranian regime. They have massacred tens of thousands of people, spread terrorism throughout the world more than any other regime, developed missiles that can reach London and Berlin, mined international waters, and attacked many countries in the region.