The world is watching America lose its moral compass and its global credibility

FreeinChrist said:

No, the World War order after WWII did not need to go. A strong NATO is good.

The point of the OP is that America, under Trump, is betraying American values and how we and the world saw us. We can't admonish any country about human rights, and abuse.

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But Trump has always been upfront about not wanting the the USA to continue to fund the post-cold-war world-order.

Trying to scry any sort of “strategy” in Trump 2.0 is a task, I’ll grant you, but giving up on soft-power often leads to relying on hard power. 110 years ago this was called “Big Stick diplomacy.” He’s done this all, right out in the open, it shouldn’t be shocking, at this juncture.

Lukaris said:

Trump was ok during his first administration but has embraced reckless interventionism. That being said, the post World War 2 order had to go since all it did was perpetuate mass migration and endless wars so we have gone full circle in an instant on wars. When the demos get voted back in, broken borders, mass migration will resume & the circle will be complete.

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More doom & gloom? Lovely.

Bradskii said:

Don't forget they'll be eating your pets as well.

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No need to worry about the basement dog fighting, there's no room there because the Democrats are occupying it for the child sex trafficking, since the pizzeria got exposed.

MarkSB said:

2. What "economic benefits" are you referring to? The fact that many of them come here and work very hard in manual labor, and for low salaries? Or the ones that come here on student visas and get advanced degrees? Yes, the economic conditions here are better than in the countries which many immigrants come from. But what is being implied here when you say "economic benefit"? Are you implying that the majority of them have not earned what they are getting?

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A plentiful job market, law & order, ambulances that show up when you call, worker safety rules & regulations, etc...

MarkSB said:

3. What qualifies as "doing things your way"? What specifically is the "your way" in this statement which the majority of immigrants aren't adhering to?4. The social safety net comment implies that immigrants come here to take advantage of social welfare programs. Is that the implication that you are making here? If so, what evidence do you have that shows this is the majority case?

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Assimilating to the community you're moving into vs. building one's own insular community that still does things the old way, just with a change of venue, or trying to rebuild your old country in a new place.

MarkSB said:

5. Where are these immigrants who are "hitting the streets" and saying "how dare you ask me to learn English?" Can you provide evidence for widespread protests or attitudes like this? According to AI:There is no widespread evidence of U.S. immigrants being opposed to learning English. Research suggests the opposite: high demand for English classes, which often results in long waiting lists. Most immigrants, including over 87% of undocumented ones, support requiring English as part of legal integration, with over 83% of refugees learning English within a year of arrival.
6. That "beat down in the streets" would be illegal, would it not? You state it here like it is some good and wholesome thing.

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the "how dare you ask me to learn english" was just an example, basically, that can be replaced with any cultural norm that's already established here, that one doesn't want to adopt.

As far as an example, a few of those high profile college activists who were green card holders, who were leading radical student groups aimed at criticizing the US, who they choose to be allies with, and the social norms. (referring to the ones who were at the center of attention due to the deportation debates). If I went to Japan on a student visa, and started leading radical student groups aimed at bashing the Japanese government and critiquing their norms, that wouldn't be well-received.

MarkSB said:

Good grief. So correct me if I'm wrong here, but in your analogy, the neighbor who you can find some "middle ground" with comes from one of the following countries: "Italy, Ireland, England, Scotland, and Germany"? That's what was stated in the first part of your post as being more preferred cultures for immigration. Is that correct?

So if that is the case, what exactly makes those countries more preferred than Latino countries, which didn't make your 'favorable culture' list? I understand that a language barrier creates practical concerns, but two of the countries on your preferred country list (Italy and Germany) don't have English as their dominant language. So what makes Mexican / Central American / South American / Asian immigrants so different then? Or immigrants from any countries other than the ones that you have listed?

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Actually, I think people from Latin American countries can integrate quite well, and have in many places. I'd actually say the tend to integrate better than people from a several Asian countries in many respects.


I think the over-arching question that can highlight my train of thought on this:
"Are you demanding to bring things that made your country so bad that you wanted to leave it, and integrate those things into this society as part of the melting pot" vs. just other extraneous cultural customs/traditions/etc....

For instance, if I as an American stated that I was tired of gun violence and not having universal healthcare, and me and thousands of others wanted to move to Canada to get way from that, but then when we got there, advocated hard for (and voted for) loosening gun laws and giving more tax cuts to the rich (the kinds of policies that created the problems we claimed we were trying to get away from) and said "owning guns and keeping taxes low is part of our culture from the old country, you guys need to respect that and accommodate us to be welcoming...btw, a good sized chunk of the money we earn here, we're going to send back to our relatives in the US", Canadians would have every right to push back on that.

That's very different than just bringing a new type of food, music, art, etc...

I think the internet and social media have proven that most Americans are not competent to be properly informed voters.

Hans Blaster said:

Are you sure? How do you make this assessment?

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Sounds like your excerpts below would validate my assessment.

When I said that people in the 1920's would have been less tolerant to that then they are now (so what's going on now doesn't represent a regression in that regard)

Hans Blaster said:

Like in 1925, today we have a major rising of anti-immigrant demonstrations and violence.

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Hans Blaster said:

1900-1950 is a weird periodization of American immigration history to anyone who knows anything. The biggest event in US immigration history occurs smack dab in the middle with the 1925 (klan-backed) immigration act. No change in immigration levels was ever higher before and for 100 years later. It also makes no sense relative to some reference to the current time. With the drop that occurs in 1925, the 1900-1925 immigrants dominate the 1900-1950 totals and only 2 of your source countries would be near the top: Italy and to lesser extent, Germany. (German immigration peaked around 1870.)

The dominant flows of immigrants in the first quarter of the 20th century were from southern and eastern Europe with few english speaking immigrants. Things get a little fuzzy as arriving immigrants were categorized by nation of origin, not ethnicity (though native language was usually recorded) and large, multi-ethnic empires like the Austro-Hungarian, Russian, and Ottoman Empires existed for the first portion of this period).

That you think the dominant immigrant stream was relatively conflict free with the culture, language, and religion of the dominant culture of the US (anglo-protestant) betrays great ignorance.

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On to the next bit:

Hans Blaster said:

Have you not seen the festival flashback scenes in Godfather, Part 2 with the Italian flags everywhere in Little Italy?

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The operative clause of my statement was "while yelling disparaging things about America"

A festival would be very different than an angry protest, would it not?

And perhaps it's just optics, but Italian Americans seemed to integrate (and engage in high levels of various civic participation) within a generation or two. Including high labor force participation rates.

One point of reference, Italian Americans joined the service for WW2 in massive numbers (I believe it was over 1.2 million but don't quote me on that) knowing that one of the enemies in that engagement was Italy - and participated in the Allied invasion of Sicily. -- indicating a stronger loyalty to their new home than their old one.

Would we see "feature parity" on that with regards to certain other groups today?

Lukaris said:

Never happened?

Graphic Truth: Illegal Immigration to the US hits record lows

The number of people attempting to cross the Southwest US border illegally has fallen to historic lows, with authorities reporting barely 8,000 “encounters” with undocumented migrants per month.

www.gzeromedia.com

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My name is X. I am here because I am being persecuted in my country and request asylum. That process is US law. That is a border encounter. Yes encounters have dramatically reduced under Trump because that law has been abandoned. Unless of course your white and from South Africa.

ThatRobGuy said:

A plentiful job market, law & order, ambulances that show up when you call, worker safety rules & regulations, etc...

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Let's not pretend that there are lines of Americans willing to do the work those who come here do. As one farmer put it, "don't like immigrants coming here to do work, then stop eating."

ThatRobGuy said:

Sounds like your excerpts below would validate my assessment.

When I said that people in the 1920's would have been less tolerant to that then they are now (so what's going on now doesn't represent a regression in that regard)




On to the next bit:

The operative clause of my statement was "while yelling disparaging things about America"

A festival would be very different than an angry protest, would it not?

And perhaps it's just optics, but Italian Americans seemed to integrate (and engage in high levels of various civic participation) within a generation or two. Including high labor force participation rates.

One point of reference, Italian Americans joined the service for WW2 in massive numbers (I believe it was over 1.2 million but don't quote me on that) knowing that one of the enemies in that engagement was Italy - and participated in the Allied invasion of Sicily. -- indicating a stronger loyalty to their new home than their old one.

Would we see "feature parity" on that with regards to certain other groups today?

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Here we are in a thread about America's (lost) moral advantage of being based on ideals rather than Blut und Kultur nationalism, and you generate a mass of garbage "history" of immigration and complain about immigrants not assimilating into your culture because you don't like the politics of a tiny portion of them. SMH.

Say it aint so said:

My name is X. I am here to because I am being persecuted in my country and request asylum. That process is US law. That is a border encounter. Yes encounters have dramatically reduced under Trump because that law has been abandoned. Unless of course you’re white and from South Africa.

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It seems like most things go to extremes and limiting refugees to 7,500 a year is not good. Yet if our borders were properly secured maybe such an extreme wouldn’t happen. It is ok for you to sweep matters under the rug when borders are neglected and a border state like Texas tries to maintain itself in the chaos. Texas is about the only state that keeps reliable statistics on migrant crime and there are significant stats from 2011-26. Of course, the counter argument is that illegal migrants commit far less crimes….so what? Anyway:


According to DHS status indicators, over 466,000 criminal noncitizens have been booked into local Texas jails between June 1, 2011, and February 28, 2026, of which over 335,000 were classified as illegal noncitizens by DHS.

Between June 1, 2011, and February 28, 2026, these 335,000 illegal noncitizens were charged with more than 597,000 criminal offenses which included arrests for 1,123 homicide charges; 78,122 assault charges; 10,556 burglary charges; 69,851 drug charges; 1,519 kidnapping charges; 30,388 theft charges; 47,270 obstructing police charges; 3,394 robbery charges; 7,629 sexual assault charges; 8,670 sexual offense charges; and 7,577 weapon charges. DPS criminal history records reflect those criminal charges have thus far resulted in over 224,000 convictions including 595 homicide convictions; 29,158 assault convictions; 5,441 burglary convictions; 28,829 drug convictions; 441 kidnapping convictions; 11,586 theft convictions; 18,282 obstructing police convictions; 1,981 robbery convictions; 3,876 sexual assault convictions; 3,957 sexual offense convictions; and 2,477 weapon




Getting rid of diversity lotteries could have made room for more legitimate refugees. I think Trump has gone too far to the other extreme but his reasons are not unsound. Is a lax “diversity lottery” a good thing when extreme terrorism like the 2013 Boston ( sanctuary city) marathon massacre happened? The culprits were pretty much white ( from the Caucuses region):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Tsarnaev#:~:text=Tamerlan%20Tsarnaev's%20boxing%20coach%20said,U.S.%20citizen%20while%20in%20college.

FreeinChrist said:

This matches what I see happening.

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/5764825-the-world-is-watching-america-lose-its-moral-compass-and-its-global-credibility/

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For decades, America’s true strategic advantage lay in something less tangible but more potent: its capacity to attract. Its ideals, openness and professed commitment to universal values conferred a moral authority that made alliances easier, its influence deeper and its leadership more legitimate. That advantage is now being squandered.​

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The current focus on the U.S.-Israeli war against Iran should not obscure a larger reality: The damage the second Trump presidency is inflicting on U.S. soft power — on the very credibility that made American leadership possible — is profound and likely to outlast the administration itself.....​

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The most visible fracture is domestic. President Trump’s rhetoric has normalized a form of racialized politics that previous generations of American leaders, from both parties, publicly rejected. His disparaging comments about Somali immigrants, like his circulation of dehumanizing imagery of the Obamas, revives some of the ugliest tropes in the long history of racial oppression. These are not isolated excesses — they signal to the world that the U.S. is retreating from the very values it once claimed as its moral core.....​

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No mainstream Western leader has voiced such unvarnished neo-imperial yearning in decades. For European allies who have spent 80 years publicly renouncing colonialism, and for countries across the Global South that fought to escape it, the implications are jarring. When American leaders speak this way, they do more than offend; they delegitimize the very international order the U.S. claims to uphold....​

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The consequences are already visible. Allies hedge. Partners question U.S. commitments. Countries across the Global South, long lectured by Washington on democracy and human rights, now hear such rhetoric with growing skepticism. Rivals, from Beijing to Moscow, find it easier to portray the U.S. as hypocritical and self-serving.​

​

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It seems that Trump is about it to abandon NATO and ally with Russia to crush democracy, especially liberal democracy across the world.

Goonie said:

It seems that Trump is about it to abandon NATO and ally with Russia to crush democracy, especially liberal democracy across the world.

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Besides cutting off an oil supply to Russia - Selling weapons and tech support to Russia's enemies (Ukraine), imposing, forcing Lukoil Asset liquidation, and extending all US sanctions against them - how has Trump aided Russia?

I appreciate the opinion poll in the OP and defend their right to express it. Personally, i feel to come to that opinion it has to completely ignore some very clear facts

1. While not complimenting NATO Trump has been strengthened
2. The Active role he played in ending nine wars
3. Freeing Venezuelans and helping set up a Democratic form of government (on going)
4. Supporting our Allies in Ukraine
5. Promoting the Save America act (supported by 83% of Voters)
6. Exposing fraud and corruption within the Federal system.

And there is so much more.

There was a time that the global community laughed at us - they are not laughing anymore - they are following strong leadership.

That is just my opinion on the OP article

Lukaris said:

It seems like most things go to extremes and limiting refugees to 7,500 a year is not good. Yet if our borders were properly secured maybe such an extreme wouldn’t happen. It is ok for you to sweep matters under the rug when borders are neglected and a border state like Texas tries to maintain itself in the chaos. Texas is about the only state that keeps reliable statistics on migrant crime and there are significant stats from 2011-26. Of course, the counter argument is that illegal migrants commit far less crimes….so what? Anyway:


According to DHS status indicators, over 466,000 criminal noncitizens have been booked into local Texas jails between June 1, 2011, and February 28, 2026, of which over 335,000 were classified as illegal noncitizens by DHS.

Between June 1, 2011, and February 28, 2026, these 335,000 illegal noncitizens were charged with more than 597,000 criminal offenses which included arrests for 1,123 homicide charges; 78,122 assault charges; 10,556 burglary charges; 69,851 drug charges; 1,519 kidnapping charges; 30,388 theft charges; 47,270 obstructing police charges; 3,394 robbery charges; 7,629 sexual assault charges; 8,670 sexual offense charges; and 7,577 weapon charges. DPS criminal history records reflect those criminal charges have thus far resulted in over 224,000 convictions including 595 homicide convictions; 29,158 assault convictions; 5,441 burglary convictions; 28,829 drug convictions; 441 kidnapping convictions; 11,586 theft convictions; 18,282 obstructing police convictions; 1,981 robbery convictions; 3,876 sexual assault convictions; 3,957 sexual offense convictions; and 2,477 weapon

Texas Criminal Illegal Noncitizen Data | Department of Public Safety

www.dps.texas.gov

Getting rid of diversity lotteries could have made room for more legitimate refugees. I think Trump has gone too far to the other extreme but his reasons are not unsound. Is a lax “diversity lottery” a good thing when extreme terrorism like the 2013 Boston ( sanctuary city) marathon massacre happened? The culprits were pretty much white ( from the Caucuses region):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Tsarnaev#:~:text=Tamerlan%20Tsarnaev's%20boxing%20coach%20said,U.S.%20citizen%20while%20in%20college.

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Again, the bulk of the reduction is through those seeking asylum who no longer can. I am not under the illusion that some of those may have committed crimes. Your site doesn't give that breakdown, and I'm quite sure they are not the majority of those numbers.

Pommer said:

But Trump has always been upfront about not wanting the the USA to continue to fund the post-cold-war world-order.

Trying to scry any sort of “strategy” in Trump 2.0 is a task, I’ll grant you, but giving up on soft-power often leads to relying on hard power. 110 years ago this was called “Big Stick diplomacy.” He’s done this all, right out in the open, it shouldn’t be shocking, at this juncture.

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I would like to point out the fact that everything in this op is incorrect.

FreeinChrist said:

Currently immigration is down all over the world. I don't blame people from avoiding the US because of the abuse of ICE, with the lack of due process that applies to ALL persons in the USA.

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Trump closed the boarders - so illegal immigration has all but stopped - are there any facts showing the effect on LEGAL immigration?

How Trump Has Strengthened NATO

Donald Trump's confrontational approach to NATO has, paradoxically, produced tangible results for the alliance's collective defense. By repeatedly and publicly demanding that member states meet the 2% GDP defense spending target, Trump introduced an accountability pressure that more diplomatic predecessors had failed to generate.

The results speak for themselves. During his first term, European NATO members and Canada added over $100 billion in additional defense spending. Countries like Germany, long criticized for free-riding on American security guarantees, began — however reluctantly — moving toward the spending benchmark. Poland and the Baltic states accelerated their military buildups, energized in part by the urgency Trump injected into burden-sharing debates.

Supporters argue that Trump's blunt transactionalism cut through decades of diplomatic complacency. By making American commitment feel conditional, he forced allies to internalize that European security could not be indefinitely outsourced to Washington. The uncomfortable message, however crudely delivered, was strategically sound: a NATO in which members contribute meaningfully is a stronger NATO.

Whether intentional or incidental, the pressure campaign produced a more financially committed alliance — one better resourced to deter adversaries than the underfunded coalition Trump inherited.

Always in His Presence said:

Trump closed the boarders - so illegal immigration has all but stopped - are there any facts showing the effect on LEGAL immigration?

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I was in Mexico a couple days ago. Obviously this is not true. It looks like a Canadian invasion of Mexico. They'll Conquer Mexico with their kindness and friendship and good manners.