Just in case you need cheering up, professor of accounting practice, Richard Murphy outlines the economic consequences of the war with Iran.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
The people will pay the price of Trump and Netanyahu's folly
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Matt5
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Professor of accounting.
What happens if we don't attack Iran?
Don't know. Don't care. Some people like to find out the hard way.
Basically, doing nothing will be much worse than doing something.
What happens if we don't attack Iran?
Don't know. Don't care. Some people like to find out the hard way.
Basically, doing nothing will be much worse than doing something.
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Matt5
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So once wrong, always wrong on everything for the rest of your life.
Some countries have an agenda of their own. Iran has it's own agenda. I'm pretty sure this is incomprehensible to a lot of people.
If we do nothing, Iran's terror war against America continues.
Here's a post on X that directly shows Iran's terror war on America since the 1979 Iranian Revolution.
"It's from U.S. Congressman Mark Green (@RepMarkGreen), a combat veteran and Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. Posted in June 2025, it frames “Death to America” as Tehran’s actual foreign policy and lists key attacks with casualty figures (sourced from U.S. government reports on Iran as the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism). It has strong engagement (over 2,300 likes and 250K+ views)." (Source: Grok AI)
Iran's theology is based on Twelver Shiism. They wish to hasten the arrival of Mahdi (Antichrist) and the Islamic Jesus (false prophet.) They need a lot of nukes to make that happen in order to produce the chaos required for the Mahdi's arrival.
[20-Jun-2025] Why Iran’s nuclear theology left Israel no choice | Opinion | Premier Christianity
"Behind Iran’s nuclear ambitions lies a dangerous theology that most Westerners are ignorant of, says Dr Michael A. Youssef. He argues Israel’s actions are a necessary attempt to stop a regime that is seeking to hasten Armageddon"
Here is a Grok summary of that article with a heavy focus on Iran's theology:
Key points on Iran's theology driving its agenda (focusing solely on the theological aspects as described in the article and related sources):
- Twelver Shiism as Iran's state religion: Since the Safavid dynasty in 1501, Iran has been centered on Twelver Shiism, the dominant branch of Shia Islam, which believes in a line of twelve divinely appointed Imams descending from Ali (Muhammad's son-in-law and cousin).
- The Twelfth Imam (Mahdi): The core belief is in the Twelfth Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, who as a child in the 9th century entered occultation (ghaybah, a state of miraculous hiddenness) and remains alive. He is expected to return one day as a messianic figure to defeat evil, establish global justice, and impose Islamic rule worldwide under a Shia caliphate.
- Apocalyptic conditions for the Mahdi's return: Radical factions among Iran's clerical leadership teach that the Mahdi's reappearance requires global chaos, destruction, injustice, and apocalyptic war as prerequisites. Conflict, particularly against oppressors (viewed as Israel and the West), is seen as part of a divine plan to create the necessary turmoil.
- Hastening the end times: Some influential scholars and clerics hold that aggressive actions—including potentially catastrophic conflict—are not just permissible but desirable to hasten the Mahdi's emergence. This creates a theological incentive for escalation, as fulfilling ancient prophecies and ushering in the messianic era outweighs rational self-preservation.
- Implications for deterrence: This belief system undermines traditional nuclear logic (like Mutually Assured Destruction), because certain apocalyptic-minded leaders might view initiating widespread destruction as a sacred duty to accelerate the prophesied events rather than something to avoid.
- Not universal among leaders: While not all in Iran's leadership subscribe to actively hastening the Mahdi through war, the presence and influence of these views within the clerical elite shape the regime's long-term agenda and make it uniquely threatening in Western and Israeli assessments.
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Ah yes base your foreign policy on Grok - that explains how the US government currently works. Given your level of expertise do you think Saddam Hussein was the good guy in the Iran-Iraq war? Who was the aggressor? Whom did the west support? And were the Iraqi WMD ever found after Saddam Hussein was defeated? Which countries has Iran invaded since the fall of the Shah?
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Laodicean60
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I wonder how many protesters have died, and people around the world are being killed, because a terrorist group backed by Iran wants to make a statement of hate.
Yep, this is our open aggression and the biggest blunder of my lifetime, and I'm sorry I got caught up in Western propaganda. But Iran, for over 45 years, has unleashed terror around the world since their regime change.
I guess these days a little terror is acceptable to get your way.
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I did read an eyewitness report casting doubt in the 30,000 figure and there are doubts about how the figure (and similar) were obtained. That doesn't mean it's ok of course but if Israel and/or the US bomb schools with children in, isn't that terror as well?
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Laodicean60
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It's sad that accidents happen in conflicts, but this was due to old targeting data dating back to 2015. We need AI to replace these lazy humans in updating information, especially if Wiki has it.
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Both Israel and USA are energy independent and are making a lot of money off exports right now. Big Oil a key Republican supporter is making enormous profits off the war
Higher energy prices in the long run could cause a recession in both countries and so a resolution to this crisis before the October elections in Israel and the November Mid terms in the USA is probably a priority for both Trump and Netanayhu.
The Saudis are pumping a lot of oil (maybe as high as 7 m barrels a day to the Red Sea) - which makes the recent Houthi attacks symbolically significant. The UAE has a similar pipeline to the Indian Ocean bypassing the strait of Hormuz but this is not enough to make up the deficit in supply. India and China are the worst effected by the blockade.
Economically the key objective is focused on resuming traffic through the strait of Hormuz. Occupying the islands in the strait or Kharg island which controls 90% of Irans export capability that could be secured by ground troops without any major threat of American force attrition could be objectives, also eliminating Irans navy and coastal missile and drone launch sites, would also be a part of any plan.
Maybe it was a mistake to start this war but now it has to be won. The key decision now that the USA and Israel are in the war is how to remove Iran's last major lever toward preventing peace negotiations which is its ability to threaten traffic through the strait of Hormuz and also threats to local Arab oil infrastructure. If this lever is not removed then Iran can prolong the war as long as they want until the American public cave into its demands and force a peace agreement on its government. That would be a disaster for the long term energy supply and market across the globe and for the world economy of which these two countries are a part and may well mean that a more motivated Iranian regime acquires nukes to accompany its hostile intent. Israel has no choice but to see this war through to victory. The USA has a choice but this requires a political will that might be lacking in its local circumstances.
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What is victory? Regime change? Why would the next regime be better? A western compliant puppet government might not last. Iran has more reason now to want nukes. Nukes = security from attack.
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The people of Iran have been paying the price of previous adminstrations lack of fortitude to confront Irans dictatorial suppression, desire to wipe Israel off the map with nuclear weapons and support sissy targeting of innocent lives around the globe.
Those in charge in Iran are rabid dogs and have needed correction for decades.
This lack of resolve has allowed to become a stronger, more difficult issue to deal with.
The western worlds policy of burying their head in the sand and hoping this avoidance would not be noticed while pretending this response is somehow the moral highground has seduced many self righteous cowards.
'Can't we all just get along,' is a fools fantasy.
The revolution in Iran may have been understandable and perhaps a righteous movement, however it resulted in tyranny and death to those who oppose the suppression.
Iran foments terror and supports fanatical militant jihad and believes it is just. There is no reasoning with such tyrants. Attempts to appease them only increases their confidance and capabilities.
Those in charge in Iran are rabid dogs and have needed correction for decades.
This lack of resolve has allowed to become a stronger, more difficult issue to deal with.
The western worlds policy of burying their head in the sand and hoping this avoidance would not be noticed while pretending this response is somehow the moral highground has seduced many self righteous cowards.
'Can't we all just get along,' is a fools fantasy.
The revolution in Iran may have been understandable and perhaps a righteous movement, however it resulted in tyranny and death to those who oppose the suppression.
Iran foments terror and supports fanatical militant jihad and believes it is just. There is no reasoning with such tyrants. Attempts to appease them only increases their confidance and capabilities.
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Maybe the west should not have not enabled the overthrow of the secular Mosaddegh government in 1953, or for that matter the overthrow of the secular Najibullah government in Afghanistan. The latter hasn't worked out too well nor did the former.
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Or Iraq, Afghanistan, Libia...
It most often does not seem to improve relationships or the lives of the populace.
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Nukes in this case = a threat to its neighbors and to Americas ally Israel. Iran even fires missiles at some of the holiest sites in the Islamic world while claiming a religious rationale for their actions. They cannot be trusted with nukes because they are actually likely to use them offensively.
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This is the government liberals wish to continue in Iran.
"Security forces have warned parents of suspected agitators that their children could be jailed or executed,"
"Security forces have warned parents of suspected agitators that their children could be jailed or executed,"
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eclipsenow
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I hear you!
Netanyahu said Iran were 2 weeks away from having a nuke, and Trump believed him!
I guess it must have been even MORE 2 weeks away than when Bibi said it was 2 weeks away 5 years ago!
That's an awful lot more 2 weeks! I mean - the 2 weeks must be accelerating its 2 weeksness!
Trump 'totally obliterated' their nuclear program - then Iran went and 're-bliterated' it overnight!
How dare they! How dare they!
2 weeks away!
Why don't we all get it - this was an emergency!
But - maybe we need to give Trump & Co. a break?
Trump was unfairly fined for tax avoidance and defrauding NYC.
Got to have SOME way for the family empire to do some good old fashioned insider trading and get some green back!
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