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Is misandry even justified as a response to misogyny?

zippy2006

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I see that this is apparently a mindset that exists today that misandry (which is contempt for men, either an attitude, policy or "all men suck" rage) is seen as justified or at least understandable because of mistreatment of women in the past and that still perceived to happen today. When men call out perceived misandry in society today, they are seen as just whining, privileged, etc. How is this right or fair?
There are three basic streams here. The first two are different approaches to justice and the third is just a natural phenomenon.

The first approach to justice is the classic approach (think Aristotle or Cicero). On this approach what is just is what is due. On this view reactionary misandry is unjust (as is reactionary misogyny, which is also happening).

The second approach to justice is Marxist, where the marginalized must be favored above everyone else. On this view reactionary misandry is just (as is reactionary misogyny). There is unfortunately a lot of this in the culture right now.

The natural phenomenon is a sort of tit-for-tat applied to groups. So if there is a lot of black crime in Chicago, people will tend to become racist against blacks. And if there is a lot of misogyny, people will tend towards misandry.

The first stream must be upheld, for it is true justice. The second stream must be opposed, for it is false justice. The third stream must be reckoned with, for it does exist (for good or for ill). What this means is that the causes of misandry are also men's problem; and the causes of misogyny are also women's problem. Men contribute to misandry and women contribute to misogyny, and even the ones who are not directly contributing must work to rectify the problems on their own side.
 
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pc_76

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I’m trying to figure who’s feminist leadership’s battle cry is “ex-boyfriends are blockheads.”
A lot of popular female music artists like Taylor Swift, Alanis Morrisette, etc.
 
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comana

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A lot of popular female music artists like Taylor Swift, Alanis Morrisette, etc.
I can’t t recall any songs from either of these artists referring to “ex boyfriends are blockheads“. Perhaps you are referring to Alanis’ popular song from the 90s that recounts a past relationship where an older man took advantage of her as a vulnerable 19 year old? I think the anger voiced in that song is justified.

Popular female artists write songs about failed relationships, other women find a connection to their own experiences in those songs, the result is a shared feeling of catharsis. Women relating to women is not misandry.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Some powerful men dominated or abused women years ago…? Some women perceive it’s still happening?

Somebody did not learn the lesson about women choosing the bear.
Yes, the same women who choose the bear will choose a man in a split second to fix their car. That's "Girl Power."
 
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Tropical Wilds

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A lot of popular female music artists like Taylor Swift, Alanis Morrisette, etc.
Both of them had complaints about very specific men, not all men. Which, frankly… Same.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Yes, the same women who choose the bear will choose a man in a split second to fix their car. That's "Girl Power."
Most women I know would actually choose a mechanic to fix their car, not simply “a man.”
 
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comana

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Yes, the same women who choose the bear will choose a man in a split second to fix their car. That's "Girl Power."
I don’t think you understood the whole bear vs man hypothetical.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Most women I know would actually choose a mechanic to fix their car, not simply “a man.”
Since over 95% of auto mechanics are men, the next time you need an oil change, call the bear. Not the auto shop.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Since over 95% of auto mechanics are men, the next time you need an oil change, call the bear. Not the auto shop.
You realize the bear analogy isn’t about asking if you’d prefer a bear or a male mechanic work on your car, right?
 
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Oompa Loompa

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You realize the bear analogy isn’t about asking if you’d prefer a bear or a male mechanic work on your car, right?
Yeah. If you were lost in the woods trying to survive and given a choice between coming across a man or a bear, some women would feel safer with the bear over a man. I am saying that these same women who chose the bear to survive in the wilderness should also choose the bear to survive in life. So good luck finding a bear on Angie's list to fix your broken toilet, repair your vehicle, or repair your roof. What I think is truly insane is that these same women who claim to choose the bear because of their perceived fear of men are completely okay with men participating in women's sports and exposing young little girls to men in the women's bathroom. Do you not see the absurdity? So forgive me, and the millions of other men who agree with me, that if a woman choose the bear, expect little to no support from men. Frankly, I think the bear is taking one for the team because I would find such a woman to be insufferable. But hey, if you would prefer a bear tearing you apart and eating your liver for breakfast over a man "mansplaining" to you as to why you are wrong, that is a personal choice that requires some level of consistency.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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I don’t think you understood the whole bear vs man hypothetical.
Yes. I understand it is a hypothetical question. But the answer reveals something, don't you think. What do you think is revealed from that question? Keep in mind that many of these same women who chose the bear are also fine with men competing in women's sports and using the women's bathroom. So riddle me that.
 
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Larniavc

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How is this right or fair?
It’s strictly speaking fair but it is very understandable. And it can be an important lesson for young men to learn that there are some behaviours that they engage in that lead to reciprocal responses.
 
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Larniavc

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I think it is well known in counseling how anyone who has been hurt by a man might then tend to distrust all men.
But the same goes for guys. Some guys haven’t even been hurt by women and they seem to despise them.
 
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Larniavc

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Was that justified, though? No.
I’d say totally understandable. Regrettable that it happened but that’s a perfectly normal human reaction.
 
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Larniavc

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Most women I know would actually choose a mechanic to fix their car, not simply “a man.”
And you would be correct to do so. I for example am a man with next to zero ability to fix a car but one of my exes is an engineer.
 
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comana

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Yes. I understand it is a hypothetical question. But the answer reveals something, don't you think. What do you think is revealed from that question? Keep in mind that many of these same women who chose the bear are also fine with men competing in women's sports and using the women's bathroom. So riddle me that.
No, it’s not that deep. Simple, despite men supposedly being the protector of women, they a greater fear for women when confronting them alone, even if they may be in a situation that is dangerous, such as a bear also on the path in the woods. The intentions of that man may be far worse than being killed by the bear, so risk the bear over the man. It’s not about auto mechanics or transgender in bathroom or sports. Its just simply a thought exercise over what a vulnerable woman fears more- the strange man or the bear.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Yeah. If you were lost in the woods trying to survive and given a choice between coming across a man or a bear, some women would feel safer with the bear over a man. I am saying that these same women who chose the bear to survive in the wilderness should also choose the bear to survive in life.
So instead of acknowledging women feel unsafe around men and asking why or examining if you’re the problem, you act petulant. You’re not helping your cause, my dude.

So good luck finding a bear on Angie's list to fix your broken toilet, repair your vehicle, or repair your roof.
So because men dominate some industries, women have no right to be afraid of men…? You’ll just gloss over how women (and their husbands) will only pick contractors/mechanics they trust or ask for home repairs be done when a wife isn’t alone or that all details of the gigs be
managed by men because they think that means they’ll get a better deal?

What I think is truly insane is that these same women who claim to choose the bear because of their perceived fear of men are completely okay with men participating in women's sports and exposing young little girls to men in the women's bathroom. Do you not see the absurdity?
I do see the absurdity, but it’s your tangent, not mine. If women are stupid for choosing the bear because men aren’t dangerous, you should have no issues with men (trans or not) being in women’s bathrooms and locker rooms. If men are safe to be around, why are you so afraid of them being in a women’s bathroom?
So forgive me, and the millions of other men who agree with me, that if a woman choose the bear, expect little to no support from men.
So if we don’t want to put ourselves in a position where we feel unsafe with strange men, we are undeserving of having access to professional men…?

You need to pick a lane and stick with it. We should be afraid of them in bathrooms, but not afraid of them when we are alone in compromising situations, and if we are afraid we have cut ourselves off from any professional services that are male dominated.
Frankly, I think the bear is taking one for the team because I would find such a woman to be insufferable. But hey, if you would prefer a bear tearing you apart and eating your liver for breakfast over a man "mansplaining" to you as to why you are wrong, that is a personal choice that requires some level of consistency.
Number of times I have run into a bear? Dozens.
Number of times I have been attacked by a bear? 0
Number of times I’ve been attacked by a man? Definitely not zero.
Number of times I’ve changed my plans, edited my behavior, or adapted myself to not be an enticing target to men? Definitely not zero.

Frankly, I think the number of men don’t get why women choose the bear shoe a fundamental lack of knowledge on men, women, and bears. They’re the same men who say “don’t get drunk in public, it’s not safe” or “wearing clothing that’s too provocative invites being raped” or “I don’t want my wife alone when the plumber comes to fix the sink” or “let me negotiate with the mechanic because he’ll rip you off.”

Everybody I know has run into a bear and come out fine, just like every woman I know has a story about the time she ran into a man and didn’t.
 
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