Florida Transgender Teen, Friend Charged in Alleged Plot to Kill Classmate to ‘Resurrect’ Sandy Hook Shooter

ThatRobGuy · Mar 13, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
About what? That trans people are at higher risk of suffering from psychiatric conditions? That is good to know for their doctors.

As I noted, there's data showing a connection between those conditions and homicidal ideation and violent behavior.

So if we know Personality disorders and Schizophrenia present a greater risk of that...

And Group A is 12x more likely to have those conditions than Group B, then it's not unreasonable to have some concerns about the uptick in people identifying with that group.

Let's use a simplistic non-controversial example.

Pretend that data showed that people who were Pittsburg Steelers fans were 12x more likely to have Schizophrenia.

If the number of people identifying as Steelers fans seemed to be growing by leaps and bounds, it wouldn't be unreasonable to be concerned by that, correct?

https://thehill.com/homenews/lgbtq/5462128-transgender-americans-population-williams-institute/

Stopped_lurking · Mar 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
As I noted, there's data showing a connection between those conditions and homicidal ideation and violent behavior.

So if we know Personality disorders and Schizophrenia present a greater risk of that...

You use that as your input to your risk assessment for homicidal ideation and violent behavior.

ThatRobGuy said:
And Group A is 12x more likely to have those conditions than Group B, then it's not unreasonable to have some concerns about the uptick in people identifying with that group.

Concerns about their mental health, as in they are likely to have psychiatric conditions? Of course not.

Remember if you could eliminate 100% of trans active shooters, you would have eliminated 4 or 7 in total. If you could eliminate all the active shooters with some or other psychiatric condition would that number be lower (there is not much room for lower) or higher? Why focus one the trans aspect? In Sweden we have had a grand total of 0 trans active shooters (or even mass shooters, which is a much wider category).

ThatRobGuy · Mar 13, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
Concerns about their mental health, as in they are likely to have psychiatric conditions? Of course not.

Also concerns about how society is treating it.

If there's a social ethos of sorts, that's desperately trying to normalize something and pretend it's not an issue at all, and suggests that "you all just need to be supportive and affirm", then that's overlooking a lot of potential underlying conditions.

If a person experiencing gender dysphoria as a manifestation of schizophrenia or a Cluster B Personality disorder - in which, gender dysphoria is comorbid in 25% & 52% (respectively) with those conditions, and everyone has been pressured and cajoled into just racing down the affirmation route, that's a problem.

Gender Dysphoria - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Because, if for some folks, it's a symptom and not a stand-alone thing, then social/physical transition and proper pronoun usage and showing support with a multicolored flag isn't going to solve the issue for those folks.

In an environment where it's become "taboo" to question, or deep dive in order to get to the root of the issue, and the only acceptable answer is "if they say they're a woman at 3pm, you must start treating them as such at 3:01", that could explain why the percentage of people in that category has seemingly tripled over the past 15 years.

We've basically allowed people to "self-diagnose" in a way.

It's like if a person's urge to drink is being caused by anxiety, and rather than get to the root of the anxiety issues, we just give them a martini whenever they ask for one.

Stopped_lurking · Mar 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
Also concerns about how society is treating it.

If there's a social ethos of sorts, that's desperately trying to normalize something and pretend it's not an issue at all, and suggests that "you all just need to be supportive and affirm", then that's overlooking a lot of potential underlying conditions.

So don't overlook other conditions.

ThatRobGuy said:
If a person experiencing gender dysphoria as a manifestation of schizophrenia or a Cluster B Personality disorder - in which, gender dysphoria is a symptom in 25% & 52% (respectively) with those conditions, and everyone has been pressured and cajoled into just racing down the affirmation route, that's a problem.

Not if the doctors catch the schizophrenia or a Cluster B Personality disorder

ThatRobGuy said:
Because, if for some folks, it's a symptom and not a stand-alone thing, then social/physical transition and proper pronoun usage and showing support with a multicolored flag isn't going to solve the issue for those folks.

So pick up those people.

ThatRobGuy said:
In an environment where it's become "taboo" to question, or deep dive in order to get to the root of the issue, and the only acceptable answer is "if they say they're a woman at 3pm, you must start treating them as such at 3:01", that could explain why the percentage of people in that category has seemingly tripled over the past 15 years.

We've basically allowed people to "self-diagnose" in a way.

It's like if a person's urge to drink is being caused by anxiety, and rather than get to the root of the anxiety issues, we just give them a martini whenever they ask for one.

I just added a paragraph to my post.

But I'll post it again here.

Remember if you could eliminate 100% of trans active shooters, you would have eliminated 4 or 7 in total. If you could eliminate all the active shooters with some or other psychiatric condition would that number be lower (there is not much room for lower) or higher? Why focus one the trans aspect? In Sweden we have had a grand total of 0 trans active shooters (or even mass shooters, which is a much wider category).

ThatRobGuy · Mar 13, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
Remember if you could eliminate 100% of trans active shooters, you would have eliminated 4 or 7 in total. If you could eliminate all the active shooters with some or other psychiatric condition would that number be lower (there is not much room for lower) or higher? Why focus one the trans aspect? In Sweden we have had a grand total of 0 trans active shooters (or even mass shooters, which is a much wider category).

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, the concern is the uptick in people identifying that way, and the fact that a percentage of the society is trying to actively put on blinders.

As I cited before, a 52% comorbid rate with Cluster B personality disorders indicate problems that go beyond just active shooting scenarios.

Just as a cheat sheet at what the Cluster B disorders are:
Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) — Characterized by unstable self-image, impulsivity, emotional dysregulation, and chronic feelings of emptiness. Self-harm and suicidal behavior are common features.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) — Characterized by grandiosity, need for admiration, sense of entitlement, and extreme sensitivity to perceived slights or criticism. The "wounded narcissism" pathway — where a self-image collides with real-world rejection — is well-documented in literature specifically.

Histrionic Personality Disorder (HPD) — Characterized by excessive emotionality, attention-seeking behavior, discomfort when not the center of attention, and tendency toward dramatic or theatrical behavior.

Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) — Characterized by persistent disregard for others' rights, deceitfulness, impulsivity, aggression, recklessness, and lack of remorse.

So even if we eliminated guns from the US tomorrow and active shootings weren't even part of the equation.

Increasing numbers of these conditions (that are being ignored in the name of "just affirm so feelings don't get hurt") still present a problem for society.

Stopped_lurking · Mar 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, the concern is the uptick in people identifying that way, and the fact that a percentage of the society is trying to actively put on blinders.

As I cited before, a 52% comorbid rate with Cluster B personality disorders indicate problems that go beyond just active shooting scenarios.

Just as a cheat sheet at what the Cluster B disorders are:
Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) — Characterized by unstable self-image, impulsivity, emotional dysregulation, and chronic feelings of emptiness. Self-harm and suicidal behavior are common features.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) — Characterized by grandiosity, need for admiration, sense of entitlement, and extreme sensitivity to perceived slights or criticism. The "wounded narcissism" pathway — where a self-image collides with real-world rejection — is well-documented in literature specifically.

Histrionic Personality Disorder (HPD) — Characterized by excessive emotionality, attention-seeking behavior, discomfort when not the center of attention, and tendency toward dramatic or theatrical behavior.

Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) — Characterized by persistent disregard for others' rights, deceitfulness, impulsivity, aggression, recklessness, and lack of remorse.

So even if we eliminated guns from the US tomorrow and active shootings weren't even part of the equation.

Increasing numbers of these conditions (that are being ignored in the name of "just affirm so feelings don't get hurt") still present a problem for society.

So how much of the uptick (if any) in cluster b personality disorders are due to people also identifying as trans? Are you proposing a causal link, first they identify as trans then they develop cluster b personality disorders? If you convince someone they are not trans anymore, they stop having a cluster b personality disorder?

Belk · Mar 13, 2026

Valletta said:
Just put the address in your browser if you want the information.

It's on your local drive. Go ahead and send me your router IP address and I'll root around and find them. ^_^

loveofourlord · Mar 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
That's why I noted that data can be framed different ways based on narrative.

Which is why I followed up by posting links discussing a risk assessment profile of sorts.

If we know that certain psychiatric conditions associated with increased homicidal ideation, then it's only reasonable to have concerns pertaining to a group that have rates of those conditions that far exceeds that of the general population.

We're not talking about a trivial difference here

Mental Health Diagnoses Among Transgender Patients in the Clinical Setting: An All-Payer Electronic Health Record Study - PMC

We performed a cross-sectional analysis of the prevalence of psychiatric diagnoses among transgender patients in clinical care using an all-payer electronic health record database. Of 10,270 transgender patients identified, 58% (n=5940) had at least ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

View attachment 377527

If it were any other group or cohort (that wasn't considered to be aligned and protected class)
And we were talking about 12x the rate of schizophrenia, 10x the rate of dissociative disorder, 5x the rate of anxiety disorder, and 15x the rate of personality disorder

...And numerous high-profile recent incidents have involved people from that group

...And social trends and polling are indicating that there's a huge uptick in young people identifying with that group

Would anyone have any objections to the concerns?

This can't be purely dismissed as "this is just conservative pearl clutching just like they did about gay people 10 years ago".

To your other part
In the case of the 2024 Lakewood Church shooting, the shooter (Genesee Moreno, female) had gone by the name Jeffrey at various points in the past, which is what fuels the speculation that there was perhaps some gender issues going on. In the case of the Perry HS shooting, the speculation on that was fueled by the fact that the social media accounts for the person used symbols, hashtags, and posted pictures that seemed to align with "genderfluid".

That's another area where the over-granularity of how many designations and labels there are now can be used to artificially deflate certain numbers as well. Really what they need to do is just break it out between Cis vs. non-Cis.

Otherwise it'll just keep being this shell game of "The shooter wasn't trans, they were a divergent demigender two-spirit, so it doesn't count toward the stats"

can christians stop pointing to problems THEY cause as if the problem has anything to do with what someone is. notice how many of those are things that can be caused by the way christians and others treat them?

ThatRobGuy · Mar 13, 2026

loveofourlord said:
can christians stop pointing to problems THEY cause as if the problem has anything to do with what someone is. notice how many of those are things that can be caused by the way christians and others treat them?

A) I'm not a Christian

B) While that rationale can be used for things like certain milder forms of anxiety and depression, the same is not true for severe psychiatric conditions like Schizophrenia and Cluster B disorders I was referring to. Those are caused by genetic and biological vulnerability.

Meaning, while a person getting teased or ostracized can explain elevated rates of anxiety and depression, it doesn't cause a person to develop schizophrenia or the aforementioned Cluster B disorders.

Nithavela · Mar 13, 2026

iluvatar5150 said:
yeah? How's that supposed to work? You linked to a file on your C: drive.

ThatRobGuy · Mar 13, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
So how much of the uptick (if any) in cluster b personality disorders are due to people also identifying as trans? Are you proposing a causal link, first they identify as trans then they develop cluster b personality disorders? If you convince someone they are not trans anymore, they stop having a cluster b personality disorder?

No, I'm suggesting that gender dysphoria can be a manifestation/symptom of schizophrenia and personality disorders (with a high degree of overlap)
- 25% of people with Schizophrenia experience periods of gender identity issues as a symptom -- over 50% for the personality disorders

The DSM changes that took place made some subtle changes. In the past, before a diagnosis of stand-alone gender dysphoria was considered, clinicians first needed to rule out those other disorders being a cause. Now that's not the case.

So what means in practical terms, is that before:
17 year old presents to a psychiatrist with gender identity issues, that clinician would determine if that person had one of the other aforementioned issues, and treat those, and see if the gender identity issues resolve.

Now that doesn't happen:
That same 17 year old goes to a gender clinic and gets hormones (potentially leaving a case of schizophrenia or personality disorder untreated)

DaisyDay · Mar 13, 2026

Huh. I would've thought that fascination with Sandy Hook and school shootings would be more concerning than any transgender ideation.

essentialsaltes · Mar 13, 2026

DaisyDay said:
Huh. I would've thought that fascination with Sandy Hook and school shootings would be more concerning than any transgender ideation.

Obsession with guns is normal.

RocksInMyHead · Mar 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
The DSM changes that took place made some subtle changes. In the past, before a diagnosis of stand-alone gender dysphoria was considered, clinicians first needed to rule out those other disorders being a cause. Now that's not the case.

So what means in practical terms, is that before:
17 year old presents to a psychiatrist with gender identity issues, that clinician would determine if that person had one of the other aforementioned issues, and treat those, and see if the gender identity issues resolve.

Now that doesn't happen:
That same 17 year old goes to a gender clinic and gets hormones (potentially leaving a case of schizophrenia or personality disorder untreated)

I assume you speak with the authority of your long practice of psychiatry here?

Stopped_lurking · Mar 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
No, I'm suggesting that gender dysphoria can be a manifestation/symptom of schizophrenia and personality disorders (with a high degree of overlap)
- 25% of people with Schizophrenia experience periods of gender identity issues as a symptom -- over 50% for the personality disorders

The DSM changes that took place made some subtle changes. In the past, before a diagnosis of stand-alone gender dysphoria was considered, clinicians first needed to rule out those other disorders being a cause. Now that's not the case.

So what means in practical terms, is that before:
17 year old presents to a psychiatrist with gender identity issues, that clinician would determine if that person had one of the other aforementioned issues, and treat those, and see if the gender identity issues resolve.

Now that doesn't happen:
That same 17 year old goes to a gender clinic and gets hormones (potentially leaving a case of schizophrenia or personality disorder untreated)

Per the table you presented only a minority of trans people deal with schizophrenia (2.5%) or cluster b personality disorders (3.4%). If those numbers and the ones in this post are correct, It would make more sense to check those with schizophrenia or personality disorders for gender dysphoria (pretty sure it would have been picked up by the doctor anyway).

How many of the trans people with schizophrenia and concurrent gender dysphoria, loses their gender dysphoria when treated for schizophrenia? All of them? Half? Being trans is not a very strong predictor for schizophrenia.

Desk trauma · Mar 13, 2026

DaisyDay said:
Huh. I would've thought that fascination with Sandy Hook and school shootings would be more concerning than any transgender ideation.

If school shootings were the important issue it would be. What really matters is if they can be used as a cudgel against trans folks.

Valletta · Mar 13, 2026

Desk trauma said:
If school shootings were the important issue it would be. What really matters is if they can be used as a cudgel against trans folks.

Not at all, it's similar to showing the numerous smokers who die of long cancer. Denial only results in more negative outcomes.

ThatRobGuy · Mar 14, 2026

RocksInMyHead said:
I assume you speak with the authority of your long practice of psychiatry here?

The various DSM versions are publicly available.

DSM-III Diagnostic Criteria
A. Sense of discomfort and inappropriateness about one's anatomic sex.
B. Wish to live as a member of the other sex.
C. The disturbance has been continuous (not limited to periods of stress)
for at least two years.
D. Absence of physical intersex or genetic abnormality.
E. Not due to another mental disorder, such as Schizophrenia.

At DSM-V
The diagnostic criteria is as follows
If two or more of the following criteria are experienced for at least six months' duration

A strong desire to be rid of one's sexual characteristics due to incongruence with one's experienced or expressed gender
A strong desire for the sexual characteristics of a gender other than one's assigned gender
A strong desire to be of a gender other than one's assigned gender
A strong desire to be treated as a gender other than one's assigned gender
A strong conviction that one has the typical reactions and feelings of a gender other than one's assigned gender

So the 2 years has turned into 6 months, and the provision to rule out other mental disorders has been removed.

And some gender clinics aren't even doing the 6-months thing

Hormone Therapy - First Visit

What to expect on your first visit for gender affirming hormone therapy.

www.plannedparenthood.org

We can all agree that Planned Parenthood is a major organization right? (not just some fringe outlier tiny practice)
Their website states:

What to Expect on Your First Visit and Beyond

Before you visit, please call to make an appointment and request gender affirming hormone therapy.
In most cases your clinician will be able to prescribe hormones the same day as your first visit. No letter from a mental health provider is required.

Getting prescribed hormones the same day as your first visit, no referral from a mental health provider... Doesn't that feel a tad bit rushed?

They're treating it like is a prescription for Claritin for seasonal allergies.

ThatRobGuy · Mar 14, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
Per the table you presented only a minority of trans people deal with schizophrenia (2.5%) or cluster b personality disorders (3.4%). If those numbers and the ones in this post are correct, It would make more sense to check those with schizophrenia or personality disorders for gender dysphoria (pretty sure it would have been picked up by the doctor anyway).

How many of the trans people with schizophrenia and concurrent gender dysphoria, loses their gender dysphoria when treated for schizophrenia? All of them? Half? Being trans is not a very strong predictor for schizophrenia.

Given that among the general population, the rate of schizophrenia is 0.3%, and Cluster B disorders is 0.1%... that would suggest that the rate is a lot higher.

I don't know if the second thing you're asking for is available in terms of large scale studies (and given the political environment, I don't know if any research teams would even want to dive on that political landmine at this point), but there are some smaller scale published reports and cases in the medical literature.

The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with pimozide - PubMed

Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.160.7.1332

This case suggests that cross-gender delusions in patients with schizophrenia may mimic the persistent and stable cross-gender identification seen in patients with gender identity disorder. The psychiatric literature offers several anecdotal reports of cases in which cross-gender identification disappeared when patients were treated with antipsychotic medication (12–17). There are also case descriptions of patients whose cross-gender identification returned after antipsychotic medication was stopped (18).

Unfortunately, there's another pubMed/NIH citation that I can't link directly because it shows the picture of the aftermath of a man (amid an episode) who did a "self-amputation" of his "parts", so no way that will pass forum rules.

However, the text in that citation notes:
Gender dysphoria as a positive symptom of schizophrenia is estimated at around 30% of schizophrenia patients, and crucially, in patients where gender dysphoria presents as a positive symptom of schizophrenia, it dissipates with appropriate antipsychotic treatment, as opposed to patients with true comorbid gender dysphoria and schizophrenia where it persists despite antipsychotics.

hedrick · Mar 14, 2026

Valletta said:
Florida Transgender Teen, Friend Charged in Alleged Plot to Kill Classmate to ‘Resurrect’ Sandy Hook Shooter [WATCH]

Two teenagers in Florida are facing attempted premeditated murder charges after authorities say they plotted to kill a fellow student at Lake Brantley

www.lifezette.com

People need to acknowledge a disproportionate number of transgenders are involved in violent crimes. I don't think children should be transitioned at all or encouraged by public schools to be transitioned. It should be a choice only for an adult.

I think the ideological concerns are diverting attention from the actual policy and moral questions. Gender dysphoria exists. No amount of moral outrage will stop it. I'm not a psychologist, but I'm not shocked that it might sometimes be accompanied by other problems. The policy question is whether it's best to try to get these people to accept the gender they were born with or to live as the gender they prefer. Neither alternative is perfect, nor if they are also schizophrenic, it's not obvious to me that telling them they are deluded about their gender is likely to improve that. Even if all gender dysphoria were a result of schizophrenia (which surely is not the case) would that say anything about the most effective way to deal with it.

I've checked several different stories about this incident. They suggest that one of the teens identified as trans. I saw no suggestion that they had transitioned, except for a desire to be called by a name of a different gender (which is basically just an indication that they suffer from gender dysphoria), nor was anything said about other types of treatment. Since this is Florida, my best guess is that their school did not consider them as transitioned. There's no description whether they were being treated that way in other aspects of their life. So there's nothing in the news accounts suggesting that transitioning would be less effective than counseling them to accept their gender. Shouting at them for being deluded is less likely than either approach to result in an improvement in their condition.

If you want to put ideological spin on this story, it could just as well be spun as a result of Florida's attempt deal with gender dysphoria by denial. But whether that's true or not would require knowing more about the history of the people involved.

Florida Transgender Teen, Friend Charged in Alleged Plot to Kill Classmate to ‘Resurrect’ Sandy Hook Shooter

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