The Sabbath, Worship and the End Time

Jan001 · Friday at 9:19 AM

BobRyan said:
Isaiah 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship.

Isaiah 66:23 does not mean what you think it means. It is apocalyptic literature.

It seems that you do not comprehend that the first covenant is no longer in force. There aren't any sabbath or new moon commandments under Jesus Christ's' new covenant. Colossians 2:16

The first covenant's Sabbath laws and new moon laws were binding for the Israelites, but the new covenant Christians were and are not bound by them.

Exodus 31:13
“Say to the children of Israel, ‘You shall observe my Sabbaths, for the Sabbath is a sign between me and you for all your generations, so that you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

It seems that you do not comprehend that under the new covenant, there is now no distinction between the Israelites and the Gentiles. The importance of the generations of the Israelites ended with Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross.

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. The same Lord is Lord of all, and his generosity is manifested to all who call upon him.

It seems that you do not comprehend that the metaphorical "heaven and earth" passed away when Jesus Christ died on the cross.

Matthew 5:18
Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single letter, not even a tiny portion of a letter, will disappear from the Law until all things have been accomplished.

We know for sure that this heaven and earth was a metaphor because circumcision passed away.

For the Israelites under the first covenant, religious ritual circumcision was commanded and demanded.

Genesis 17:10
This is my covenant that you must observe, a covenant between me and your descendants after you: every male among you must be circumcised.

Genesis 17:14
The male who is not circumcised, the one whose flesh of his member is not circumcised, is to be cut off from his people. He will have violated my covenant.”

Exodus 12:48
“If a foreigner dwells among you and wishes to celebrate the Passover of the Lord, let each man in his household be circumcised. Then let him draw near to celebrate and he will be like a native of the land. But no one who is uncircumcised can eat it.

Under Jesus' new covenant, religious ritual circumcision is prohibited. It passed away. Therefore, "heaven and earth" have already passed away.

Galatians 5:1-3
It was for freedom that Christ set us free. Therefore, stand firm and refuse to submit again to the yoke of slavery (circumcision). 2 Listen to me! I, Paul, tell you that if you allow yourselves to be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you. 3 Once again, I testify that every man who accepts circumcision is under obligation to observe the entire Law. 4 Those of you who seek to be justified by the Law have cut yourselves off from Christ and have fallen away from grace. 5 For it is through the Spirit and by faith that we eagerly hope to attain righteousness, 6 since in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor lack of circumcision is worth anything. All that matters is faith expressing itself through love.

Under Jesus Christ's new covenant, religious ritualistic circumcision is prohibited. Therefore, "heaven and earth" have already passed away.

So, was the first covenant's circumcision law of Moses merely a single letter or a portion of a letter, or was the circumcision law much greater than these?

Circumcision was so great a part of the Law of Moses that under the new covenant, if a Christian male became circumcised, the grace of God no longer saved him.

Matthew 5:18
Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single letter, not even a tiny portion of a letter, will disappear from the Law until all things have been accomplished.

Heaven and earth passed away in the first century AD! The Law of Moses, the first covenant, is obsolete, no longer binding anyone. Hebrews 8:13

Hentenza · Friday at 9:31 AM

BobRyan said:
nope.

Rom 3:31 "what then ? do we NULLIFY the Law by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the Law!

Several passages of Scripture clearly establish that the coming of Christ has brought an end to the Mosaic Law so your interpretation of Rom. 3:31 interpreted out of context is incorrect.

Romans 10:4, “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”

Christ fulfilled the Ten Commandments by living a perfect and sinless life and so when man trusts in Christ as his Savior, Christ’s righteousness is imputed to that individual so we have justification (Romans 4) resulting in the fact that the Law can’t condemn us (Romans 4:4-8; 5:1, 7:1-6, 8:1).

Christ fulfilled the ceremonial ordinances, the shadows and types of His person and work, by dying on the cross for us and in our place.

Christ also fulfilled the Social Law, but now He replaces it with a new way of life fitting to our new salvation.

The believer now is under God’s new law, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2-4).

Therefore, the doctrine of justification by means of faith in Jesus Christ upholds the Law (Rom. 3:31) for three reasons:

(1) Jesus Christ’s death on the Cross satisfied the demands of God’s Law that required that human sin be judged (Romans 3:26).

(2) Jesus Christ’s death on the Cross establishes the Law by fulfilling the purpose of the Law in driving men to Jesus Christ as their Savior (Galatians 3:24).

(3) Jesus Christ’s death on the Cross establishes the Law by providing believers the capacity to obey the Law through the ministry of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:3-4).

under grace1 · Friday at 9:49 AM

The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 The legally binding law with the power to condemn.

But as Paul states, the law, what is written in it is holy, just and good (Rom7:12)

So what was God to do? He obviously would want to remove the power of sin, but he would not want to remove what is holy just and good.
Law as we naturally understand law to mean comes in two parts, what is written in the law and the attached penalty for transgression. Nothing wrong at all with the first part, it is holy, just and good, its the second part that's the problem

So God did an incredible thing. He transferred the law/what is written in it, from an external law engraved in stone, and made it an internal law in the hearts and minds of believers(2Cor3:3&Heb10:15-17)) An external law does not mean you in your heart would want to obey it does it. But a law placed in your heart, does mean in your heart you want to follow it. So, what is holy, just and good remains intact, it is now in your heart and mind. It simply means in your mind you know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way. In your heart you do not want to murder, steal, commit adultery, covet, take the Lords name in vain etc. Hardly legalism! The law/what is written in the law that is now in your heart and mind cannot condemn you, you have no righteousness of obeying it, for Jesus died for your sins/your transgressions of the law: your sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more

And so, law as we naturally understand law to mean is abolished for the believer. But what is holy, just and good is now in the hearts and minds of believers.

Because, and only because you in your heart want to live as God desires you to live, he removed the penalty attached to the law for transgression from your life. He sent Jesus to die for your sins/your transgressions of the law. Therefore, the legally binding law with the power to condemn is removed from you. And therefore, the power of sin is also now removed from your life.

With the power of sin removed from your life, you can now live a far holier life, a life you in your heart want to live for that is where the law now is. And you can do that because you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Christ died to pay the penalty of your sin, and he died to break the power of sin. And so Paul states:

Do we then make void the law by faith/righteousness of faith in Christ not obeying the law? God forbid: Yea, we establish the law Rom3:31

In other words, a righteousness of faith in Christ rather than obeying the law does not mean we can or will then act however we like, but rather, with the power of sin removed from us, we will live a holier life, that is in line with what is written in what is holy, just and good.

And confirmation:

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/ righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Rom 6:14

BobRyan · Friday at 10:09 AM

Hentenza said:
Several passages of Scripture clearly establish that the coming of Christ has brought an end to the Mosaic Law

I assume your back after the ten again.

hmmm "antinomianism much"??

Eph 6:1-2 says the unit of TEN still remain having "Honor your father and mother as the first commandment WITH a promise"
as we all know by now.

James 2 says that "to break one is to break them all" then James quotes directly from the LAW of Moses.
as we all know by now.

James 2 is not a "pair down God's Commandments however you please, according to your preference" message.

Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the COMMANDMENTS of God" 1 Cor 7:19, even in the New Testament
where 'The first commandment with a promise is still, Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2
as we all know by now

When Paul says "WE ESTABLISH THE LAW" in Rom 3:31 he makes it clear in Rom 2 that the law is composed of very specific commands in the LAW of Moses (including Ex 20, the TEN)

Every time Paul provides examples of the LAW, he ALWAYS quotes from scripture, in the LAW of Moses.

But he does not reference animal sacrifice based ceremonies, rather in Heb 10:4-12 he explicitly says animal sacrifice and grain offerings ended at the cross.

Hentenza said:
Romans 10:4, “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”

end as as in "goal" or objective that the Law directs the lost sinner to, pointing out the sin of the lost and pointing to Christ.

Rom 10 is not a place where Paul says "taking God's name in vain is no longer a sin"
as we all know by now.

Rather, EVEN in the New Testament "SIN IS transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4 and "These things I write to you that you sin not" 1 John 2;2

Hentenza said:
Christ fulfilled the Ten Commandments by living a perfect and sinless life

but did not say it is now ok to take god's name in vain.
I guess we all know that by now.

Hentenza said:
Christ fulfilled the ceremonial ordinances, the shadows and types of His person and work, by dying on the cross for us and in our place.

Yes Heb 10:4-11 points out that He ended animal sacrifice and grain offerings.

Hentenza said:
The believer now is under God’s new law, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2-4).

There is no "NEW LAW:" statement in all of Romans 8
I guess we all know that by now

Hentenza said:
Therefore, the doctrine of justification by means of faith in Jesus Christ upholds the Law (Rom. 3:31)

indeed "We ESTABLISH the LAW" by our faith as Rom 3:31 states.

Heb 8 says it is CHRIST speaking His TEN Commandments at Sinai

Hentenza said:
(1) Jesus Christ’s death on the Cross satisfied the demands of God’s Law that required that human sin be judged (Romans 3:26).

true. The debt for sin was paid.
Yet there are still people that are lost to this very day because without accepting Christ that old covenant condition of "obey and live" applies and the problem is that "all have sinned".

Where "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

Hentenza said:
(2) Jesus Christ’s death on the Cross establishes the Law by fulfilling the purpose of the Law in driving men to Jesus Christ as their Savior (Galatians 3:24).

God's Law was convicting men of sin long before the cross.

Hentenza said:
(3) Jesus Christ’s death on the Cross establishes the Law by providing believers the capacity to obey the Law through the ministry of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:3-4).

IN fact all through history the only way to obey God's commandments was through the new birth, Holy Spirit filled life of the believer.

Which is how it is that before the cross Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory in Matt 17.

BobRyan · Friday at 10:21 AM

BobRyan said:

Isaiah 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship.

Jan001 said:
Isaiah 66:23 does not mean what you think it means. It is apocalyptic literature.

It appears to mean exactly what I think it means. It speaks of a future event long after the cross, in the New Earth as I point out.

Jan001 said:
It seems that you do not comprehend that the first covenant is no longer in force.

The old covenant as Rom 3:19-20 points out, still to this day convicts the lost as sinners.
And the New Covenant of Jer 31 writes the law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers "on the heart and mind" under the gospel of grace.

Jan001 said:
The first covenant's Sabbath laws and new moon laws were binding for the Israelites,

Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for mankind" not "just Jews" according to Christ
Is 66:23 it is "ALL MANKIND" that worships on Sabbath in the New Earth
Acts 13 it is "gentiles" not Jews, that ask Paul for more gospel preaching to be scheduled for them "NEXT Sabbath"
Acts 18:4 Paul was preaching the gospel to gentiles and Jews "every Sabbath"

IT is in fact one of the "Commandments of God" as we all know

Jan001 said:
It seems that you do not comprehend that under the new covenant, there is now no distinction between the Israelites and the Gentiles.

The NEW Covenant is made with "The House of Israel and the house of Judah" as we see in Heb 8.
They are all one and the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND Their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Jan001 said:
The importance of the generations of the Israelites ended with Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross.

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. The same Lord is Lord of all, and his generosity is manifested to all who call upon him.

Indeed all the saints "KEEP The Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Jan001 said:
It seems that you do not comprehend that the metaphorical "heaven and earth" passed away when Jesus Christ died on the cross.

Matthew 5:18
Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single letter, not even a tiny portion of a letter, will disappear from the Law until all things have been accomplished.

makes no reference to "Earth passes away when I die on the cross"
as we all know by now.

Jan001 said:
We know for sure that this heaven and earth was a metaphor because circumcision passed away.

nope.

Heb 10:4-12 states that the ceremonial laws end at the cross without saying "because Earth has passed away"
In fact 2 Peter 3 says "The Present heaven and earth" are being PRESERVED for a future day

2 Peter 3: 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Hentenza · Friday at 11:09 AM

BobRyan said:
I assume your back after the ten again.

hmmm "antinomianism much"??

I see you continue with your either/or fallacy.

BobRyan said:
Eph 6:1-2 says the unit of TEN still remain having "Honor your father and mother as the first commandment WITH a promise"
as we all know by now.

James 2 says that "to break one is to break them all" then James quotes directly from the LAW of Moses.
as we all know by now.

James 2 is not a "pair down God's Commandments however you please, according to your preference" message.

Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the COMMANDMENTS of God" 1 Cor 7:19, even in the New Testament
where 'The first commandment with a promise is still, Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2
as we all know by now

When Paul says "WE ESTABLISH THE LAW" in Rom 3:31 he makes it clear in Rom 2 that the law is composed of very specific commands in the LAW of Moses (including Ex 20, the TEN)

Every time Paul provides examples of the LAW, he ALWAYS quotes from scripture, in the LAW of Moses.

But he does not reference animal sacrifice based ceremonies, rather in Heb 10:4-12 he explicitly says animal sacrifice and grain offerings ended at the cross.

end as as in "goal" or objective that the Law directs the lost sinner to, pointing out the sin of the lost and pointing to Christ.

Rom 10 is not a place where Paul says "taking God's name in vain is no longer a sin"
as we all know by now.

Rather, EVEN in the New Testament "SIN IS transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4 and "These things I write to you that you sin not" 1 John 2;2

but did not say it is now ok to take god's name in vain.
I guess we all know that by now.

Yes Heb 10:4-11 points out that He ended animal sacrifice and grain offerings.

There is no "NEW LAW:" statement in all of Romans 8
I guess we all know that by now

indeed "We ESTABLISH the LAW" by our faith as Rom 3:31 states.

Heb 8 says it is CHRIST speaking His TEN Commandments at Sinai

true. The debt for sin was paid.
Yet there are still people that are lost to this very day because without accepting Christ that old covenant condition of "obey and live" applies and the problem is that "all have sinned".

Where "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

God's Law was convicting men of sin long before the cross.

IN fact all through history the only way to obey God's commandments was through the new birth, Holy Spirit filled life of the believer.

Which is how it is that before the cross Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory in Matt 17.

I’m not surprised that again you avoided my post and continue in your Strawman. No one has argued that the ten have gone away. Show me from my post where I argued that the ten have gone away. But you live under the law when the rest of Christianity live under grace. If you would have read my post you would have seen my argument and maybe comprehend my argument.

Jan001 · Friday at 12:16 PM

BobRyan said:
Heb 10:4-12 states that the ceremonial laws end at the cross without saying "because Earth has passed away"
In fact 2 Peter 3 says "The Present heaven and earth" are being PRESERVED for a future day

2 Peter 3: 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

In 2 Peter, I think he is referring to the physical heaven and earth. The will and power of God are what are keeping the physical heaven and earth in existence. If he did not use his sovereign power to do this, they would not be here.

Matthew 5:18 refers to the first covenant and its temple.

Colossians 2:13b and 16 show us which of the laws of Moses Jesus nailed to the cross, making them obsolete. When someone claims that we must keep the sabbaths of the Jews, we are told to ignore them.

For it is in him that the entire fullness of deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and you share this fullness in him who is the head of every ruler and power. 11 In him also you were circumcised, not with a physical circumcision but with a spiritual stripping away of the old nature with the circumcision of Christ.

12 When you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God who raised him from the dead. 13 And even when you were dead in your sins and your flesh was uncircumcised, God gave you new life along with him. He has forgiven us all our sins, 14 erasing the record against us with its decrees that are hostile to us. He set this aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 Disarming the rulers and powers, he made a public spectacle of them, parading them in his triumphal procession.

16 Therefore, do not allow anyone to pass judgment on you in regard to what you eat or drink, or about the observance of Festivals, New Moons, or Sabbaths. 17 These are only a shadow of what is to come. The reality is Christ.

From TLB:

13 You were dead in sins, and your sinful desires were not yet cut away. Then he gave you a share in the very life of Christ, for he forgave all your sins, 14 and blotted out the charges proved against you, the list of his commandments which you had not obeyed. He took this list of sins and destroyed it by nailing it to Christ’s cross. 15 In this way God took away Satan’s power to accuse you of sin, and God openly displayed to the whole world Christ’s triumph at the cross where your sins were all taken away. 16 So don’t let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing—of Christ himself.

Jan001 · Friday at 12:25 PM

BobRyan said:
Heb 10:4-12 states that the ceremonial laws end at the cross without saying "because Earth has passed away"

Colossians 2 shows us examples of the first covenant laws that ended at the cross.

16 So don’t let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing—of Christ himself.

Acts 15:27-29 shows us which of the first covenant Jewish laws are relevant for uncircumcised Christians.

Acts 15:27-29
“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no greater burden of Jewish laws on you than to abstain from eating food offered to idols and from unbled meat of strangled animals, and, of course, from fornication. If you do this, it is enough. Farewell.”

Freth · Friday at 6:40 PM

Jan001 said:
Colossians 2 shows us examples of the first covenant laws that ended at the cross.

16 So don’t let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing—of Christ himself.

Acts 15:27-29 shows us which of the first covenant Jewish laws are relevant for uncircumcised Christians.

Acts 15:27-29
“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no greater burden of Jewish laws on you than to abstain from eating food offered to idols and from unbled meat of strangled animals, and, of course, from fornication. If you do this, it is enough. Farewell.”

The context of Colossians 2:16 is seen in the surrounding text.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

What was "contrary to us"?

Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

The book of the law is the handwriting of ordinances. How do we know? It was put "in the side" or "beside" the ark, not in it (see NKJV, et al). The tables of stone were put in the ark.

Deuteronomy 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.

The subject established in verse 14 is the handwriting of ordinances.

The identifier established in verse 17 specifies that the handwriting of ordinance, or the days mentioned in verse 16, are a shadow of things to come.

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Leviticus 23 differentiates between the seventh-day Sabbath and the feast days.

Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

Leviticus 23:4-36 (feasts listed)

Leviticus 23:37-38 These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: Beside the sabbaths of the Lord, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the Lord.

The very chapter that lists the feast days shows the weekly Sabbath to be separate/set apart as "the Sabbath of the Lord". Jesus verifies this in Mark 2:27-28.

Conclusion:

The seventh-day Sabbath was not nailed to the cross. The context is clear; Colossians 2:16 cannot be used to negate the weekly Sabbath. This is further solidified by the fact that the seventh-day Sabbath was established as a perpetual covenant and a sign in Exodus 31:13-16.

Perpetual means forever. Google defines it as "never ending or changing". This is also solidified by the fact that God does not change (Malachi 3:6) and Jesus does not change (Hebrews 13:8). Jesus in His own words says that heaven and earth must pass for one jot or tittle to pass from the law (Matthew 5:17-20).

A mound of evidence can be stacked against one verse taken out of context.

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Jan001 · Friday at 7:06 PM

Freth said:
Conclusion:

Perpetual means forever. Google defines it as "never ending or changing". This is also solidified by the fact that God does not change (Malachi 3:6) and Jesus does not change (Hebrews 13:8). Jesus in His own words says that heaven and earth must pass for one jot or tittle to pass from the law (Matthew 22:36-40).

"Everlasting" in this context means for as long as the covenant is in force. God's definition is what is important, not Google's.

Genesis 17:10-13
This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your descendants after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 He that is eight days old among you shall be circumcised; every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house, or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, 13 both he that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money, shall be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.

This "everlasting" circumcision covenant lasted until Jesus' death on the cross made it obsolete. His death also made the Sabbath laws, dietary laws, new moon, and festival laws irrelevant for all Christians.

Freth said:
A mound of evidence can be stacked against one verse taken out of context.

These Scripture passages I posted are true. I showed the contexts of both Acts and Colossians.. You chose to disregard them.

BobRyan · Friday at 10:40 PM

Jan001 said:
Colossians 2 shows us examples of the first covenant laws that ended at the cross.

Col 2 makes a statement about not judging others, so does Christ in Matt 7 before the cross even happens.
Not judging others is not the same thing as deleting God's commandments.

Col 2 speaks of a number of things that are not remotely God's commandments including the worship of angels and some of the other Gnostic teachings it addresses as "man made ideas" with no basis in scripture.

Jan001 said:
16 So don’t let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing—of Christ himself.

There are a number of annual Sabbaths in Lev 23 that were indeed ceremonial animal sacrifice based Sabbaths that Rom 14 states as optional but not prohibited.

By contrast the Ten Commandment creation Sabbath of Gen 2:2-3, Ex 20:8-11 kept for all eternity Is 66:23 by all mankind, did not end just because someone is told in Matt 7 and Col 2 not to judge other people.

Jan001 said:
Acts 15:27-29 shows us which of the first covenant Jewish laws are relevant for uncircumcised Christians.

Acts 15:27-29
“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no greater burden of Jewish laws on you than to abstain from eating food offered to idols and from unbled meat of strangled animals, and, of course, from fornication. If you do this, it is enough. Farewell.”

Acts 15 did not mention the OT Law to "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
Acts 15 did not mention the OT Law to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Acts 15 did not mention the OT Law "do not murder"
Acts 15 did not mention the OT Law "do not take God's name in vain"

Your suggestion that all the Laws that are to be kept are found in Acts 15, is simply an unworkable suggestion. Your suggestion appears to be along the path of the antinomian problem settled early in the church age.

under grace1 · 2026-02-28T00:30:50-0600

BobRyan said:
There are a number of annual Sabbaths in Lev 23 that were indeed ceremonial animal sacrifice based Sabbaths that Rom 14 states as optional but not prohibited.

Here's something from the same chapter that is optional but not prohibited:
I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. verse14

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. verse20

BobRyan · 2026-02-28T07:18:56-0600

under grace1 said:
Here's something from the same chapter that is optional but not prohibited:
I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. verse14

It is a reference to the same problem that Paul addresses in 1 Cor 8.

So instead of the much hoped for attack on God's Word, Paul is addressing the confused ideas of man.

1 Cor 8:
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

It is the same weak conscience issue in Rom 14, the same issue about what one eats.

8 But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. 9 But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? 11 For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died. 12 And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

under grace1 said:
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. verse20

It is not the much-hoped for statement approving the eating of rats, cats and dogs. Rather it is the fully described issue that we see in 1 Cor 8

Jan001 · 2026-02-28T07:35:55-0600

BobRyan said:
Col 2 makes a statement about not judging others, so does Christ in Matt 7 before the cross even happens.
Not judging others is not the same thing as deleting God's commandments.

Col 2 speaks of a number of things that are not remotely God's commandments including the worship of angels and some of the other Gnostic teachings it addresses as "man made ideas" with no basis in scripture.

There are a number of annual Sabbaths in Lev 23 that were indeed ceremonial animal sacrifice based Sabbaths that Rom 14 states as optional but not prohibited.

By contrast the Ten Commandment creation Sabbath of Gen 2:2-3, Ex 20:8-11 kept for all eternity Is 66:23 by all mankind, did not end just because someone is told in Matt 7 and Col 2 not to judge other people.

Acts 15 did not mention the OT Law to "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
Acts 15 did not mention the OT Law to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Acts 15 did not mention the OT Law "do not murder"
Acts 15 did not mention the OT Law "do not take God's name in vain"

Your suggestion that all the Laws that are to be kept are found in Acts 15, is simply an unworkable suggestion. Your suggestion appears to be along the path of the antinomian problem settled early in the church age.

You believe the "perpetual" Sabbath covenant is still required under the new covenant law.

We have proof that the "everlasting" circumcision covenant is not required under the new covenant law.

We know the new covenant changed the circumcision law; therefore, "heaven and earth" have already passed away.

Exodus 31:16, Genesis 17:11-14, 1 Corinthians 7:17-19

under grace1 · 2026-02-28T07:47:28-0600

BobRyan said:
It is a reference to the same problem that Paul addresses in 1 Cor 8.

Its just a plain statement to reference:
ALL(ALL) food is clean.
But I appreciate, in this instance sola scripture must be abandoned for you

Studyman · 2026-02-28T11:03:32-0600

under grace1 said:
Its just a plain statement to reference:
ALL(ALL) food is clean.
But I appreciate, in this instance sola scripture must be abandoned for you

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

under grace1 · 2026-03-01T01:37:29-0600

Studyman said:
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

So is your view, if a pig was killed with a spear its ok to eat bacon as it hadn't been strangled?
Most understand they only gave the four laws to bring unity at the meeting
BTW
In 1Cor ch8 Paul said there is nothing wrong with eating meat sacrificed to idols, confirming the fact as to why those four laws were given

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