Sabbath Keeping and The Gospel

Leaf473 · Thursday at 10:23 AM

The Liturgist said:
I pray for everyone - including you. You should know I love you very much, @Studyman

Amen

BNR32FAN · Thursday at 12:22 PM

The Liturgist said:
On this point, I would note to you and to @BNR32FAN and @tall73 that regarding God resting - we really should interpret that as a prophecy of Christ reposing in the tomb on Holy Saturday, and also as God not making any changes in the world for one day after the initial creation of man - in the case of God in His divine nature, He is, it should be noted ,eternal and immutable, meaning He does not change, and does not experience time, for He created time, time is a property of this world and this life, which God exists outside of (and which hopefully we will as well in the life of the World to Come, in eternal life, since experiencing linear time for all eternity I believe would be torture, indeed on discussing the prospects of it with my bishop he remarked that my fear of linear time unending sounded very much like a description of Hell. Rather inheriting eternal life through theosis means escaping from the constraints imposed by the created attribute of this world known as time.

God Himself is clearly described in the Bible as unchanging, impassable and immutable, except in His incarnation as Christ Jesus, so language about Him for example changing his mind and so on should be interpreted in a non-anthropomorphological concept, for Scripture also makes it clear that God is, in his unoriginate divine essence, inscrutable and beyond comprehension. In Orthodoxy we specifically believe that God can be known only through His energies, such as uncreated grace, and in His incarnation as Jesus Christ, in which our humanity was united with His divinity without change, confusion, separation or division (the important principle of communicatio idiomatum, historically stressed among Protestants by the Lutherans and among ancient Christians most heavily emphasized by the likes of pre-Chalcedonian theologians such as St. Athanasius and St. Cyril of Alexandria, and the Cappadocians and St. John Chrysostom, Oriental Orthodox theologians such as St. Severus of Antioch and St. Philoxenus of Mabbug and the Syriac Orthodox hymnographer and “flute of the spirit”* St. Jacob of Sarugh, and Eastern Orthodox theologians such as St. John of Damascus).

* This is a reference to St. Ephraim the Syrian as Harp of the Spirit. The Nestorians of the time proposed Mar Narsai as ”flute of the Spirit”, but Mar Narsai is deeply uncomfortable for an Orthodox Christian, although some of his hymns remain in use in the Assyrian Church of the East and the Ancient Church of the East, some of his hymns were extremely ugly examples of Nestorianism at his worse, for example, he composed a him in which, contrary to the principle of communicatio idiomatum idiomatum, he specifically attributed individual acts of Christ to his divinity or to his humanity, in a dichotomistic way which contradicted the idea of the Incarnation and of Christ as Emanuel - God with Us.

By the way my fellow Orthodox friend @prodromos and my Lutheran friend @ViaCrucis have written eloquently about communicatio idiomatum. I feel it is an important principle which is also extremely relevant to this thread.

In addition, I believe we must not overlook the prophetic element of 1 Genesis - while I do not deny it refers to the creation of the universe, I believe it very clearly refers to the passion and resurrection of Christ and the light of the World to Come. Consider that the process of the creation of man began on the sixth day, not with “Let there be” as in a single action completed immediately, but rather uniquely, “Let us create man in our image”, implying a process, one which, the same day of the week many years later Christ remade us in His image on the Cross, before proclaiming “it is finished” - after Pontius Pilate upon seeing Christ having been suffered declared “Ecce homo” - behold the Man. Then, on the Seventh Day, Christ our God - who created all things (John 1:1-18) and cannot be contained, reposed in the tomb, just as He had been via a great mystery contained in the womb of our Glorious Lady Theotokos and Ever Virgin Mary. And on the first day, the day of creation, Christ rose from the dead, 49 days later, the Holy Spirit descended, and this also alludes to the mystical eigth day of creation - the light of the World to Come. Let there be light! And the structural similarity between John 1 and Genesis 1 I believe underscores the prophetic aspects of Genesis chapter 1.

Regarding Christ as the completion of man, and salvation as the process of becoming human, through Theosis, that is to say, putting on Christ in Baptism just as Christ our God put on our humanity, as attested by Galatians 3:27, which we Orthodox sing on the feast of the Baptism of our Lord - Theophany (january 6th) - “Whoever has been baptized in Christ has put on Christ! to which we add an ”Alleliuia”, the former dean of St. Vladimir’s Seminary and current successor of Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, memory eternal, at Oxford, Fr. John Behr, has spoken of this subject extensively. I particularly enjoyed his lecture “The Shocking Truth of Orthodoxy,” if memory serves he also wrote a book on Patrisitics on this theme entitled Becoming Human, which unfortunately I have not had the time to read but is high on my reading list.

No disrespect intended brother but I try to avoid typologies and things of that nature. I don’t have a big problem with anyone else doing it but I try not to make connections between things like this unless it’s specifically mentioned in scripture. I know there are some connections specifically mentioned in scriptures but I try not to go beyond those examples. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t like to make assumptions in my theology and I mean that in the nicest way possible not to imply or accuse you of making assumptions. I just know that sometimes superficial connections have been made in the past that were used to formulate outrageous doctrines. The gnostics were notorious for doing this.

Studyman · Thursday at 1:07 PM

BNR32FAN said:
Yeah nothing significant about the first day of creation or the day Jesus was resurrected huh?

I'm pretty sure when the Word of GOD Created His Feasts, He knew when He would be murdered, and raised from the dead, as I believe He knows the end from the beginning: I believe this in spite of the traditions and high days created by the religions of this world God placed me in. But it is my belief, you are free to believe as you wish.

BNR32FAN · Thursday at 3:33 PM

Studyman said:
I'm pretty sure when the Word of GOD Created His Feasts, He knew when He would be murdered, and raised from the dead, as I believe He knows the end from the beginning: I believe this in spite of the traditions and high days created by the religions of this world God placed me in. But it is my belief, you are free to believe as you wish.

Indeed He does know the end from the beginning which might be why He didn’t think it was necessary to make a commandment concerning it since appointed times aren’t a requirement under the New Covenant and He knew we would observe it anyway.

The Liturgist · Thursday at 6:24 PM

BNR32FAN said:
I don’t have a big problem with anyone else doing it but I try not to make connections between things like this unless it’s specifically mentioned in scripture.

In the case of the typological connection between Genesis 1 and John 1 - it is specifically Scriptural, since John 1 explicitly quotes Genesis 1

tall73 · Thursday at 8:20 PM

Studyman said:
Not "Despite Christ being the Substance", but to remember of the prophesies and events that are yet to be fulfilled, "BECAUSE" they are all about Christ. Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles, Last Great Day", they are not just worthless Jewish traditions as is promoted by "Many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord. They are shadows of things to come, that are of the very Body of Christ, not just worthless traditions. This is why Paul teaches the body of Christ, Jew and Gentile, not to let men judge in their respect, honor and obedience to God.

As opposed to the high days created by the religions of this world, which are "Shadows" of absolutely nothing yet to come.

You have already established you don't make pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Could you please explain how you observe these times?

tall73 · Thursday at 9:34 PM

Studyman said:
I'm pretty sure when the Word of GOD Created His Feasts, He knew when He would be murdered, and raised from the dead, as I believe He knows the end from the beginning: I believe this in spite of the traditions and high days created by the religions of this world God placed me in. But it is my belief, you are free to believe as you wish.

Yes, He knew what would happen, and so Jesus was the Passover Lamb, and the Firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep, as predicted:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8

For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (NKJV)

1 Corinthians 15:20

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. (NKJV)

tall73 · Thursday at 10:01 PM

BNR32FAN said:
Indeed He does know the end from the beginning which might be why He didn’t think it was necessary to make a commandment concerning it since appointed times aren’t a requirement under the New Covenant and He knew we would observe it anyway.

Could you please clarify your position on who the principalities who were disarmed are, and why you think that from the text?

Earlier you said you disagreed with the NKJV rendering. I responded to that, as I don't think the translation is much of an issue, but unless I missed it you didn't clarify.

BNR32FAN · 2026-02-27T06:06:48-0600

The Liturgist said:
In the case of the typological connection between Genesis 1 and John 1 - it is specifically Scriptural, since John 1 explicitly quotes Genesis 1

Yeah I think that’s obvious.

BNR32FAN · 2026-02-27T06:12:29-0600

tall73 said:
Could you please clarify your position on who the principalities who were disarmed are, and why you think that from the text?

Earlier you said you disagreed with the NKJV rendering. I responded to that, as I don't think the translation is much of an issue, but unless I missed it you didn't clarify.

I believe it’s referring to the Pharisees, they were disarmed by removing the appointed times therefore no one is to judge us according to appointed times.

tall73 · 2026-02-27T07:52:32-0600

BNR32FAN said:
I believe it’s referring to the Pharisees, they were disarmed by removing the appointed times therefore no one is to judge us according to appointed times.

Do you think these were Pharisees in or out of Christianity? It seems the Judaizers Paul warned against were Christians. But were they principalities and powers?

They didn't even have buy-in from the church, as the Jerusalem council ruled against them.

Also, how were the uncircumcised in the flesh Gentiles (but circumcised with the circumcision of Christ) under the appointed times to start with?

Studyman · 2026-02-27T09:38:19-0600

The Liturgist said:
Interestingly all of the holy days you mentioned have been incorporated into the Church, for in every case their actual meaning was fulfilled in the incarnation of Christ, and we now await the fulfillment of His second coming.

And Yet "we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad". The Lamb of God has been slain, but the Judgment of God against the god's of Egypt has yet to come, as Paul tells you here, several years after the Christ had ascended to His Father. And Feast of Unleavened bread is a journey all men who believe God must partake of, as it represents the "coming out of sin", without which the Passover means nothing, as Paul points out in 1 Cor. 10, years after the Jesus of the Bible ascended up to His Father. And Pentecost, the event that signifies God's Promise to those who obey Him, is honored by every generation, not just first Church of God under God Prophesied New Priesthood Covenant, but their children, for "we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad"

It is true that there are "many", who come in Christ's Name, who say "ALL" has already been fulfilled. But in Colossians 2:16,17, which was spoken Years after Jesus was murdered and raised from the dead, and ascended to His Father, Paul is still telling us these events are Not Already Fulfilled, but are shadows of Events "Yet to Come". And as Jesus said, not one jot or title of God's Law will pass until "ALL" has been fulfilled. They certainly were not yet fulfilled when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Colossians, and I don't believe they are fulfilled in my life, but are still shadows of things yet to come, in the life of all believers.

I too, await the fulfillment of His 2nd Coming, as did Paul, therefore I labour, that, whether present or absent, I may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

As the Spirit of Christ also Inspired it to be written in 2 Peter 3: 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

I understand the popular religious tradition of creating high days in worship of an image of God. In my studies, the Faithful examples God gave us in Scriptures, didn't engage in this popular behavior. When Israel did it, God punished them until it became apparent they simply didn't believe Him. (Is. 1: 5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.".

Paul teaches these things were written so that we would not follow the same path as they did. I advocate that we follow Paul's teaching.

The Liturgist said:
Colossians 2:16 precludes us from judging each other on how we observe the Sabbath - which is why in this thread I do not criticize the practices of Adventists and other Sabbatarians.

According to the Text, Paul was speaking to the Body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile, and here is what he said:

"Let no man therefore "judge you" in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

"Let no man "beguile you" of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

So I think you are right not to judge men for their obedience to God, but if you did, Paul is instructing them not to be influenced by the judgment. And Paul is encouraging the Body of Christ, who has rejected the traditions and commandments of men the mainstream preachers of his time taught for doctrines, to remain steadfast, knowing they would be critical of them for rejecting their popular religious philosophies and traditions, just as they were of Jesus and Peter and the first Church of God under His Prophesied New Priesthood Covenant.

It's a great study.

The Liturgist · 2026-02-27T10:47:29-0600

Studyman said:
And Yet "we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad". The Lamb of God has been slain, but the Judgment of God against the god's of Egypt has yet to come, as Paul tells you here, several years after the Christ had ascended to His Father. And Feast of Unleavened bread is a journey all men who believe God must partake of, as it represents the "coming out of sin", without which the Passover means nothing, as Paul points out in 1 Cor. 10, years after the Jesus of the Bible ascended up to His Father. And Pentecost, the event that signifies God's Promise to those who obey Him, is honored by every generation, not just first Church of God under God Prophesied New Priesthood Covenant, but their children, for "we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad"

The feast of Pentecost is celebrated by all traditional Christian denominations.

Studyman said:
It is true that there are "many", who come in Christ's Name, who say "ALL" has already been fulfilled. But in Colossians 2:16,17, which was spoken Years after Jesus was murdered and raised from the dead, and ascended to His Father, Paul is still telling us these events are Not Already Fulfilled, but are shadows of Events "Yet to Come".

Indeed, but that’s another layer of prophecy - the life of the world to come. Only full preterists believe everything has been fulfilled, and full preterism is extremely controversial; no traditional Christian church teaches it. Rather the believe we see in the early church is that Christ will return, we shall stand before His dread judgement seat, and those who believe on Him and are saved by His uncreated grace, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will inherit eternal life.

Insofar as the Jewish holy days might also be shadows of what is to come, well, as I’ve shown, traditional churches like the Eastern Orthodox still observe them, in a form that has been updated to reflect the Incarnation. For example, it would be absurd for us to celebrate Pentecost without commemorating the descent of God the Holy Spirit.

Studyman said:
And as Jesus said, not one jot or title of God's Law will pass until "ALL" has been fulfilled. They certainly were not yet fulfilled when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Colossians, and I don't believe they are fulfilled in my life, but are still shadows of things yet to come, in the life of all believers.

I too, await the fulfillment of His 2nd Coming, as did Paul, therefore I labour, that, whether present or absent, I may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

As the Spirit of Christ also Inspired it to be written in 2 Peter 3: 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

I understand the popular religious tradition of creating high days in worship of an image of God. In my studies, the Faithful examples God gave us in Scriptures, didn't engage in this popular behavior. When Israel did it, God punished them until it became apparent they simply didn't believe Him. (Is. 1: 5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.".

Paul teaches these things were written so that we would not follow the same path as they did. I advocate that we follow Paul's teaching.

Indeed, but the traditional churches did not create high days in worship of an image of God, but rather celebrated that which had already transpired, in a manner directly based upon Jewish worship, which included worship on the first day, as wee see in Exodus, as I pointed out.

Also St. Paul did establish that the Apostolic Tradition is authoritative, in 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15, and that we are not to fellowship with those who disregard it, in 2 Thessalonians 2:37 (and by implication, Galatians 1:8-9, since departure from this Tradition, which includes, for example, the Nicene Creed and the 27 book New Testament canon, entails preaching another gospel.

Studyman said:
According to the Text, Paul was speaking to the Body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile, and here is what he said:

"Let no man therefore "judge you" in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

"Let no man "beguile you" of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

So I think you are right not to judge men for their obedience to God, but if you did, Paul is instructing them not to be influenced by the judgment. And Paul is encouraging the Body of Christ, who has rejected the traditions and commandments of men the mainstream preachers of his time taught for doctrines, to remain steadfast, knowing they would be critical of them for rejecting their popular religious philosophies and traditions, just as they were of Jesus and Peter and the first Church of God under His Prophesied New Priesthood Covenant.

It's a great study.

Well, I haven’t judged anyone, and I would encourage you not to, insofar as your criticisms of the traditional churches and attacks upon us on allegations of not keeping the Sabbath or otherwise doing things that jeopardize our salvation for reasons of not following the Jewish holidays (which by the way, strictly speaking, we would not be obliged to follow insofar as they’re part of the Law which according to St. Paul in Galatians 3:15-5:15 inclusive, we are not under), seem contrary to Colossians 2:16 (and also the words of our Lord, “judge not, lest ye not be judged”).

BNR32FAN · 2026-02-27T11:00:36-0600

tall73 said:
Do you think these were Pharisees in or out of Christianity? It seems the Judaizers Paul warned against were Christians. But were they principalities and powers?

They didn't even have buy-in from the church, as the Jerusalem council ruled against them.

Also, how were the uncircumcised in the flesh Gentiles (but circumcised with the circumcision of Christ) under the appointed times to start with?

No I think the term “rulers and authorities” refers to the Jewish Pharisees outside of Christianity. There were other sects of Christians like the Ebionites who believed that we had to continue to keep the Mosaic law but I don’t see them in a position of authority like the Jewish Pharisees were. I would say that during the apostolic era all of the gods, including the God of Abraham, had appointed times of worship that were common knowledge to the people and until the apostles specifically told them otherwise everyone assumed that these appointed times were still in effect. Therefore the Pharisees could point to these Christians not observing the appointed times and accuse them of profaning God’s commandments which is why Paul had to address the problem otherwise we still to this day would have no idea whether or not we are obligated to observe these appointed times.

Studyman · 2026-02-27T14:13:58-0600

The Liturgist said:
Well, I haven’t judged anyone, and I would encourage you not to, insofar as your criticisms of the traditional churches and attacks upon us on allegations of not keeping the Sabbath or otherwise doing things that jeopardize our salvation for reasons of not following the Jewish holidays (which by the way, strictly speaking, we would not be obliged to follow insofar as they’re part of the Law which according to St. Paul in Galatians 3:15-5:15 inclusive, we are not under), seem contrary to Colossians 2:16 (and also the words of our Lord, “judge not, lest ye not be judged”).

The label "Sabbatarian" is a judgment adopted by many that was created by this world's religions for the very purpose of dividing religions of this world, "Sabbatarians" from "Non-Sabbatarians", whatever that means. This was not done by the direction of the Holy Scriptures, but by religious men "who professed to know God". Placing labels on the Feast of the Lord, such as "Jewish Holidays" is another judgment of God's Word that doesn't exist in Scriptures. Paul warns of the "Philosophies and traditions of men". Specifically "Religious philosophies" as opposed to "Secular Philosophies". Paul said to beware of them. Jesus too, warned of being deceived by the teaching of "many", not secular teaching, but the teaching of religious men, specifically men who "come in His Name". I'm not sure why this teaching offends some men, but if a person stopped reading scriptures that offended men, the Bible would only be one page long, in my view. After all, it is written "For correction and reproof and instruction in Righteousness". Shall we not therefore let the Word of God correct us, reprove us, and instruct us unto God's Righteousness?

Paul warned about a temporary Law that was added 430 years after Abraham, that the Pharisees were still promoting, at least a corrupted version of it. It was ADDED "Because" of Transgressions, and was only to be in force and effect, "Till the True Lamb of God should come, AKA "THE SEED".

If a man hears Moses, as Jesus instructed the multitudes and the Disciples to do, they will find a Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi after the Golden calf.

Here is the Law Paul is speaking to that the Pharisees had corrupted but were still promoting.

Lev. 4: 27 And if any one of the common people "sin through ignorance", while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; 28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, "come to his knowledge":

OK, here comes the Law that Abraham didn't have, that wasn't "added" until 430 years after Abraham, and was Added "Because" of Sin (Transgression), as you can see, and was only ADDED "Until the Seed should come". It's right here in our own Bible. So here is the Law that was ADDED to God's Commandments, Statutes and Judgments, because of Sin, thta was to be in place "till the Seed should come".

"then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish,"for his sin" (Transgression) which he hath sinned"."

29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and "slay the sin offering" in the place of the burnt offering. 30 And "the priest" shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. 31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and "the priest" shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

And Paul knew Jesus was the Prophesied Priest of the New Priesthood Covenant promised by Christ (Word of God) through Jeremiah, and that men were no longer "Under this added Law" that was added 430 years after Abraham, because the Priest "After the Order of Melchizedek" and already come and already replaced the Levitical Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron". Although this is right there in our Bibles, most of this world's religions promote a different religious philosophy. I think this is why both Jesus and Paul warned me to beware and take heed, specifically concerning the religious, "not Secular" philosophy of men who professed to know God.

It is my understanding that to know a message from someone, it is important to consider all the words given in the the message. When a person does this, they are able to more correctly discern the intent of the message, in my view.

Matt. 7: 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, "ye shall be judged": and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; "and then shalt thou see clearly" to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

It seems clear that we are to make a judgement, of ourselves first, then we can Love our brothers.

In this way we can Love our Neighbor as we first loved ourself.

So you can see that Jesus message is not "Judge not", because HE knows it is impossible to be a believer and Yield oneself to God and their bodies as instruments unto God, without making a judgment.

Since I have no religious sect to defend or religious philosophy of man to promote, I am free to accept every Word of God, even when it exposes, actually especially if it exposed a deception or untruth lodged in my mind.

I advocate that all men be free from the yoke of bondage this world's religions place on the backs of those who adopt them, freed by the Spirit of Christ to enable men to "Live By" Every Word of God, no longer held captive, not by secular philosophies, but by the religious philosophies of men.

It was the Love of God that showed me these things. It is the same Love I now share with others.

Studyman · 2026-02-27T14:56:20-0600

tall73 said:
You have already established you don't make pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Could you please explain how you observe these times?

We did established that there is no Law of God commanding that men must go to physical Israel to honor and respect God in His Holy Feasts. Just as there was no Law of God requiring that a man cut the lose skin off his penis before God would save him. Such judgments against God are absurd, in my view, yet they are promoted by many.

Duet. 6: 1 Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the LORD thy God: for in the month of Abib the LORD thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night. 2 Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there.

Since the Kingdom of God is within me, and the Temple of God is in my mind, then wherever God chooses to place me, is the place God chooses to place His Name. And it is there that I can honor and respect God in His Feasts.

Studyman · 2026-02-27T14:59:58-0600

tall73 said:
Yes, He knew what would happen, and so Jesus was the Passover Lamb, and the Firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep, as predicted:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8
For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (NKJV)

1 Corinthians 15:20
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. (NKJV)

My point was that the Same Word of God knew all these things, when HE created, set apart and sanctified as Holy, His Sabbaths and Feasts. At least that is my belief.

Studyman · 2026-02-28T08:14:20-0600

As a student of Scriptures, I did a Word study on the Word Love, probably 20 years ago now. I wanted to understand the difference between God's Love and man's love. It was a harsh study as it exposed a lot of deception in my mind, which I supposed was the reason for the study in the first place. Probably the most known and perfect example of the huge difference between God's Love and man's, is in Matt. 16.

Jesus, in God's Love, was preparing His Disciples for what was to come.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Then Peter, expressing his human love for Jesus said:

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

As can be clearly seen, there was no malice here. Peter was like, "No, don't let them do this", and it was certainly out of his love for Jesus.

Here is Jesus' response;

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, "but those that be of men".

I Jesus was on this forum, HE would get at least a warning for this Love, possibly even banned. But consider the Love of God here.

God's Love for Peter through His Son Jesus, wasn't selfish, self serving or spoken for the praise of men. He only cared for the Life of Peter. We see this difference exhibited all through Scriptures. Eve didn't offer Adam the forbidden fruit in malice or hatred towards Adam, but from human love. In like manner, Adam received the offering from Eve, out of human love, not malice.

I think it's important to seek for the understanding of God's "LOVE", and then submit ourselves to it first, as Jesus instructs; "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." This would include discerning the beam in our own eyes, judging ourselves through the Word of God, turning away from the religion of our fathers, and submitting to the Righteousness of God that we refused to do "Wherein in time past we walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

God's Love is the enemy of pride, the opposite of selfishness. It rebukes, chastises, humiliates, and exposes the darkness hidden in our hearts. And this to save us.

1 Peter 1: 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

2 Thess. 1: 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Then when these things are added to us, we are then capable of Loving others as Jesus Loved us. A Love not of this world.

It is a great Study, but a humbling one. I advocate that men do the study, not for the purpose of justifying ones own love, but in diligent seeking to know God's Love.

The Liturgist · 2026-02-28T08:35:14-0600

Studyman said:
As a student of Scriptures, I did a Word study on the Word Love, probably 20 years ago now. I wanted to understand the difference between God's Love and man's love. It was a harsh study as it exposed a lot of deception in my mind, which I supposed was the reason for the study in the first place. Probably the most known and perfect example of the huge difference between God's Love and man's, is in Matt. 16.

Jesus, in God's Love, was preparing His Disciples for what was to come.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Then Peter, expressing his human love for Jesus said:

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

As can be clearly seen, there was no malice here. Peter was like, "No, don't let them do this", and it was certainly out of his love for Jesus.

Here is Jesus' response;

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, "but those that be of men".

I Jesus was on this forum, HE would get at least a warning for this Love, possibly even banned. But consider the Love of God here.

God's Love for Peter through His Son Jesus, wasn't selfish, self serving or spoken for the praise of men. He only cared for the Life of Peter. We see this difference exhibited all through Scriptures. Eve didn't offer Adam the forbidden fruit in malice or hatred towards Adam, but from human love. In like manner, Adam received the offering from Eve, out of human love, not malice.

I think it's important to seek for the understanding of God's "LOVE", and then submit ourselves to it first, as Jesus instructs; "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." This would include discerning the beam in our own eyes, judging ourselves through the Word of God, turning away from the religion of our fathers, and submitting to the Righteousness of God that we refused to do "Wherein in time past we walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

God's Love is the enemy of pride, the opposite of selfishness. It rebukes, chastises, humiliates, and exposes the darkness hidden in our hearts. And this to save us.

1 Peter 1: 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

2 Thess. 1: 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Then when these things are added to us, we are then capable of Loving others as Jesus Loved us. A Love not of this world.

It is a great Study, but a humbling one. I advocate that men do the study, not for the purpose of justifying ones own love, but in diligent seeking to know God's Love.

It comes to precisely the same conclusion as the words of the Nicene Fathers who you claim taught a false “religious theology,” and says nothing about keeping the Sabbath or other aspects of the old Law, which we are not under, according to Galatians 3:15-5:15.

Have you read Galatians?

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