The Barbarian
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Is Scripture still inerrant according to theistic evolution?
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The Barbarian
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One of the biggest embarrassments to the "see, ID is doing real science" campaign:
Intelligent design think tank’s “institute” is a Shutterstock image
A green screen plus a stock image of a lab equals instant credibility.
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The Barbarian
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Firstlightdawn
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Intelligent Design didn’t lose in court because the idea was disproven. It lost because the people responsible for presenting the case fumbled it. They weren’t unified, they weren’t consistent, and they weren’t prepared for the legal framework they walked into. The result is simple: ID failed to present its case effectively, and the opportunity was wasted. They could have, the opportunity was there, but they did not present their case.
And their position was essentially:
But here’s the problem
- They couldn’t explain the content of the books
- They hadn’t read the books themselves
- They contradicted each other on the stand
- They couldn’t defend the scientific arguments inside the books
It didn’t. It was a disaster. That’s why ID “failed to present its case.” Not because the science was disproven — but because the people presenting it were unprepared.
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The Barbarian
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Dr. Behe is one of the best-educated (in a biological science, no less) scholars in ID. And he fumbled it, because he would not lie about the relationship between ID and science. He was entirely prepared, a fellow of the Discovery Institute, familiar with all the arguments for (and against) ID. No one could have done a better job, and still honestly state the facts.
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Firstlightdawn
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I would like to see the Biology text book that they use in Christian schools. I should be able to find something on Amazon but they seem to be expensive and it is not clear just what sort of a book they are.
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The Barbarian
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Most Christian schools, especially those from Catholic, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, and Lutheran denominations, use standard texts. There are religious schools that teach creationism, flat Earth or whatever. But they aren't in the mainstream.
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Job 33:6
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I believe that at the time of the dover trials, 2005, Ken Miller was working on an edition of this particular text:
, it is 13 dollars pre owned on Amazon.
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The Barbarian
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Ken's a Christian, BTW. And a very nice guy. I had the opportunity to meet him years ago.
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Firstlightdawn
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yes, I have those. It is amazing you can buy a $150 book so cheap, When I was in collge my tuition was $600 and my books cost $300. Seemed like a lot of money at the time, when we could only make $100 a week. My son lived in a frat house where they share books. So that saved him a lot of money.
What I was wondering about was a Christian Science books, but it is not that important. The prices are higher on those.
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Firstlightdawn
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I was thinking about this the other day. In our state you have to pass a test to get a high‑school diploma, and in most states students are required by law to read and study evolution. I think that’s a good thing. People should understand how biodiverse ecosystems work.
Take biodiversity in our own city. On the community page, some people want all the wild cats killed. I remind them what happened in Europe when they wiped out the cats — the Black Plague exploded and half the population died. That usually shuts the conversation down fast. Cats protect the food supply by keeping rodents in check.
I wish I could make the same point about taxes. Detroit is the perfect example. They couldn’t resist gouging people for taxes, and it destroyed the city. People were evicted from beautiful homes that eventually got gutted and burned to the ground. When your house is worth $20,000 and the tax bill is $3,000–$4,000 a year, that’s not sustainable. People simply couldn’t pay, so they left. The abandonment was driven by taxes people couldn’t afford.
I spent a good portion of my life doing remodeling and renovation, so it hits me hard to see those beautiful homes destroyed — all because the so‑called elected officials didn’t know how to manage a city.
And now HUD ends up selling FHA‑foreclosed homes to local governments for $1 if they sit unsold for six months. That’s what happens when a tax system collapses: the city ends up begging someone to take the property just to get it back on the tax rolls.
HUD sells FHA‑foreclosed homes to local governments for $1 if they’ve sat unsold for six months.
Cities can then resell them cheaply (sometimes for $1) to:
- Homebuyers
- Nonprofits
- Developers
- Detroit
- Cleveland
- Buffalo
- St. Louis
- Baltimore
- Milwaukee
- Pittsburgh
- Dayton
- Toledo
- Youngstown
- Flint
- Saginaw
- Gary, Indiana
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