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If The World Ended Right Now, Would You Be Saved? Eph 2:1-10

Jan001

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Are you saying that to have faith we must obey Christ and that that is the way we create faith, belief? How can you say, "
Obeying God's commandments until our death will make us acceptable for eternal life." But then call salvation a free gift? You are saying that we are responsible for making ourselves acceptable for eternal life. How is that so when the bible clearly states, "he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" Titus 3:5
God gives to each person a measure of faith. Romans 12:3
If the person cooperates with God's initial measure of faith by believing in Jesus Christ, and he also received the baptism that Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:18-2, he has been saved. At this baptism he was given the Holy Spirit to help him to be a good disciple of Jesus Christ. Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38

Now, he must continue in his faith until his death if he wants to inherit eternal life. Revelation 2:10

For him to continue in his faith, he must obey God's commandments.

Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”

He will be cut off from Christ's kingdom if he does obey Christ's commandments.

Romans 11:22
Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.


Notice it says saved, not will save. Furthermore, how can this all be true if John states, "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 JOhn 5:13

It appears that good works are downstream from salvation and not its head waters.
Yes, we were saved. Now we must continue to be saved by obeying Jesus' commandments.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The people who are perishing are the people who are not obeying God's commandments.


1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.


If a person did not obey God's commandments, he is foolish to believe that he is still saved. He believed in vain. Unless he repents before he dies, he will not inherit eternal life.

Jesus said it is difficult for people to inherit eternal life. I believe him.
Luke 13:23-27, Matthew 7:12-14
 
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Mercy Shown

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God gives to each person a measure of faith. Romans 12:3
If the person cooperates with God's initial measure of faith by believing in Jesus Christ, and he also received the baptism that Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:18-2, he has been saved. At this baptism he was given the Holy Spirit to help him to be a good disciple of Jesus Christ. Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38
Yes, as long as it is possible.

To clarify your position:
If a man is genuinely convicted of his sin, truly repents, and turns to Jesus in faith — but is killed in a car accident on his way to be baptized before the baptism can take place — would you say he is saved or lost?

Now, he must continue in his faith until his death if he wants to inherit eternal life. Revelation 2:10
For him to continue in his faith, he must obey God's commandments.

Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”

He will be cut off from Christ's kingdom if he does obey Christ's commandments.

Romans 11:22
Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.



Yes, we were saved. Now we must continue to be saved by obeying Jesus' commandments.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The people who are perishing are the people who are not obeying God's commandments.


1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.


If a person did not obey God's commandments, he is foolish to believe that he is still saved. He believed in vain. Unless he repents before he dies, he will not inherit eternal life.

Jesus said it is difficult for people to inherit eternal life. I believe him.
Luke 13:23-27, Matthew 7:12-14
Yes, all of this is true.
 
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Mercy Shown

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The Bible disagrees with your conclusion. 1 Peter 3:20-21 tells us that Baptism saves. We are saved through Baptism and continue to be saved.
You should not base a doctrine on a single proof text. We can't exclude all other texts on the subject.

Salvation by Faith in Christ

Gospel of John 3:16
“Whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Gospel of John 5:24
The one who hears and believes “has passed from death unto life.”

Gospel of John 6:47
“He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

Gospel of John 11:25–26
“Whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.”

Salvation by Grace Through Faith

Epistle to the Ephesians 2:8–9
“By grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.”

Epistle to Titus 3:5
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.”

Second Epistle to Timothy 1:9
God “saved us… not according to our works.”

Justification by Faith

Epistle to the Romans 3:28
“A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”

Epistle to the Romans 5:1
“Being justified by faith, we have peace with God.”

Epistle to the Galatians 2:16
“A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.”

Salvation Through Calling on the Lord

Epistle to the Romans 10:9–10
Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart — “you shall be saved.”

Epistle to the Romans 10:13
“Whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Acts of the Apostles 16:30–31
“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.”

Forgiveness Through Christ’s Blood

Epistle to the Ephesians 1:7
“In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.”

First Epistle of John 1:7
“The blood of Jesus Christ… cleanses us from all sin.”

First Epistle of John 5:11–12
“He that hath the Son hath life.”
I answered this in #6. It is God who saves us through the sacrament of Baptism. The water does not, water is a sign of the sacrament. God sometimes uses objects, for example, Jesus used spittle, spat into the clay and put it on the blind man's eyes. Then the man washed in the water. This points toward Baptism. It was not the water that healed the blind man, it was Jesus. Water is the normal sign of the sacrament, there is also Baptism by desire such as in Luke 23:39-43
The difficulty with "sacramental grace" (the idea that the act itself conveys salvation) is the doctrine of Justification by Faith.

In Romans 4:9–11, Paul argues that Abraham was declared righteous before he was circumcised. Circumcision was a "seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised."

In Luke 23:43, Jesus assures the thief of paradise despite the absence of baptism or the Eucharist. This suggests that while sacraments are good, they are not strictly necessary for salvation if faith is present.

Traditional orthodoxy leans heavily on ex opere operato (from the work performed), suggesting the sacrament works by its own power. However, Scripture emphasizes the internal state of the believer:

1 Peter 3:21: While Peter mentions baptism saving us, he immediately clarifies: "...not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God." The "saving" power is linked to the appeal to God, not the water itself.
1 Corinthians 11:27–29: Paul warns that partaking in the Lord’s Supper in an "unworthy manner" brings judgment. If the bread and wine had inherent salvific power regardless of the heart, the spiritual state of the recipient would be secondary to the physical act.

Acknowledging the critique does not mean dismissing these acts as unimportant but their true biblical power lies in their role as visible words—vivid symbols of a spiritual reality that has already occurred.

SacramentThe Symbolic RealityThe Timing of Grace
BaptismBurial and Resurrection with Christ (Romans 6:4).Follows the internal "circumcision of the heart."
The Lord's SupperCommunion with the Body of Christ and proclamation of His death.A "remembrance" ($ἀνάμνησις$) of a finished work on the Cross.

These practices are most beautiful when viewed as a public seal of an internal reality. By grace, the believer has already been washed; by grace, the believer is already sustained by the life of Christ. The act as a "means of grace" not by creating salvation, but by nourishing the faith of the person who has already been redeemed and making a public profession of their faith.
 
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Valletta

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1 Peter 3:21: While Peter mentions baptism saving us, he immediately clarifies: "...not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God." The "saving" power is linked to the appeal to God, not the water itself.
1 Corinthians 11:27–29: Paul warns that partaking in the Lord’s Supper in an "unworthy manner" brings judgment. If the bread and wine had inherent salvific power regardless of the heart, the spiritual state of the recipient would be secondary to the physical act.
I'm one of the last people to base a belief on a single Bible text. I am not even a Bible-only Christian. I have repeatedly told you that the power is not in the water but from God, yet you continue to imply I believe otherwise. Bread and wine have no salvific power either. As I explained to you with the blind man and Jesus using spit and mixing it with clay, neither the clay nor spit nor water possessed power, the healing power came from Jesus.
 
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Mercy Shown

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Christ's law contains these same commandments.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
This text is not about salvation. It is about the controversy in the church at corinth over whether christians should be required to be circumcised. Paul is trying to focus them on what is important. Obeying God because we love him is what is important. But we don't love God unless we are already saved.
1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
This is also not salvific. This is a description of a born again saved Christian. Those who obey him, do so because they are in a saved relationship with him already. Obedience is a fruit of salvation. Not a means to it. In order to achieve salvation by keeping the law, one would have to obey it perfectly. God does not grade on the curve. If one believes that they do, then they surely do not.
1 John 3:24
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
Again, this flows from being saved. As Jesus says, "If you abide in me, you will bear much fruit. A branch bears fruit not by effort or striving but by abiding in the vine. We bear fruit by abiding in Christ just as naturally as the branch bears fruit by abiding in the vine.
If you do not obey his commandments, you are deceiving yourself if you believe that you will inherit eternal life.
If you believe that you are obeying his commandments perfectly enough to inherit eternal life, you are deceiving yourself.
James 1:22
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Most rich men use their wealth to help themselves to become powerful, influential, and admired men. They buy expensive things to showcase their wealth. They judge other people by their possessions instead of by their character. They do not pay living wages to their employees.

They didn't use their wealth to help others. This proves that they did not love their neighbors as themselves.
Most poor people do the same. You can't be a perfect doer of the word by effort. It must be given you by God that takes a life time or more but meanwhile He covers you with His righteousness. Heb 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Luke 3:9-11
And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
10 So the people asked him, saying, “What shall we do then?
11 He answered and said to them, “He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise.
A bad tree can't bear good fruit nor can a bad tree make itself a good one. One doesn't need a "do-good" list in order to be saved. One needs a saviour to bear all of his or her shortcomings and sins. And to create in us a clean heart and a new spirit.
Romans 13:8-10
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
(Law of Christ)

If rich men desire to be saved and inherit eternal life, they have to listen to the Holy Spirit; he will guide them on how to use their wealth for the betterment of their neighbors.
We all need a new heart and a right spirit to be made in us by the author and finisher of our faith.
 
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Mercy Shown

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I'm one of the last people to base a belief on a single Bible text. I am not even a Bible-only Christian. I have repeatedly told you that the power is not in the water but from God, yet you continue to imply I believe otherwise. Bread and wine have no salvific power either. As I explained to you with the blind man and Jesus using spit and mixing it with clay, neither the clay nor spit nor water possessed power, the healing power came from Jesus.
Sorry but when you post a truth statement like this: "The Bible disagrees with your conclusion. 1 Peter 3:20-21 tells us that Baptism saves." you are claiming that baptisms saves. That is attributing salvation to baptism and not Jesus substitutionary sacrifice. You can't blame me for taking you at your word. So, am I to believe you do not believe that baptism saves?
 
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Valletta

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Sorry but when you post a truth statement like this: "The Bible disagrees with your conclusion. 1 Peter 3:20-21 tells us that Baptism saves." you are claiming that baptisms saves. That is attributing salvation to baptism and not Jesus substitutionary sacrifice. You can't blame me for taking you at your word. So, am I to believe you do not believe that baptism saves?
I have told you over and over that water does not save us. It is a sign of the sacrament. Implying that I think water has the power to save us is the opposite of taking me at my word. Baptism is a sacrament, an action of God. Does an action of God save us? I say yes. Do you maintain no action of God saves us or can save us? It is not the human being speaking the words that save us, nor the water, it is the Holy Spirit acting through the sacrament of Baptism that saves us. God continues to save us by His actions, God be praised. The Bible contains many other references to Baptism, for example:
1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. RSVCE
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. RSVCE
Col 2:12 and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. RSVCE
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, RSVCE
 
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Jan001

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To clarify your position:
If a man is genuinely convicted of his sin, truly repents, and turns to Jesus in faith — but is killed in a car accident on his way to be baptized before the baptism can take place — would you say he is saved or lost?
Saved, in my opinion, by his desire for baptism. Jesus is a merciful judge. He knows this person's heart, that he had repented of his sins, and that he desired baptism. He was prevented from receiving it before his death by circumstances beyond his control.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
 
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Jan001

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1 Peter 3:21: While Peter mentions baptism saving us, he immediately clarifies: "...not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God." The "saving" power is linked to the appeal to God, not the water itself.
We now have a clear conscience toward God because all the sins on our souls were cleansed/washed away by the water of baptism.

This water baptism is what saves us. Matthew 28:18-20, John 3:5, Ephesians 5:26

God uses the water of this baptismal rite to apply the merits of Jesus' sacrificial blood to the soul. His blood thereby cleanses it of all sins. This baptism sanctifies us and makes us righteous, and it gives us the Holy Spirit to guide us.

1 Peter 3:21
And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


1 Corinthians 6:11
And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
 
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Jan001

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If you believe that you are obeying his commandments perfectly enough to inherit eternal life, you are deceiving yourself.

I don't believe that I am perfectly obeying his commandments, so I am not deceiving myself. :)

I am striving to perfectly obey his commandments. I keep failing. :disrelieved:
I am striving to be worthy to inherit eternal life. Luke 13:24


Revelation 3:4
But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their (baptismal) garments, and they will walk with me in white (in heaven), for they are worthy.
 
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