There is only 2 options, Life formed because of God, or by random chance from non-living matter

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-02-21T06:28:13-0600

Firstlightdawn said:
There is no such thing as the beginning of time and the expansion of the universe. Let me give this a wild guess. You are yec and think everything was created a week ago.

No, Hans is not YEC. In fact, he's as anti-YEC as they come!

Firstlightdawn · 2026-02-21T06:56:22-0600

Neogaia777 said:
The universe is "expanding" at the same equal rate equally everywhere at supergalactic scales

the universe has not always expanded at the same speed. In fact, cosmology tells us there were distinct eras where the expansion rate changed dramatically, including periods when it was far faster than it is today. But what you are saying is very interesting. The ONLY way everything can be expanding at the same rate is if everything (all) is perfectly balanced. Just as God's justice is perfectly balanced. Very exact and precise.

Neogaia777 said:
because there is no actual center to the universe

Actually there is a center to the universe. The is just nothing there, other than space. God took me there in a dream when I was 8 years old. There is also a place where the universe begain, but again there is nothing there today; They are not that far apart but there has been some drift.

In an expanding universe with no edges, every point behaves like the center. Although there are two edges. One is the furthest light has traveled, the other is the furthest physical matter has traveled.

Every point in the universe behaves as if it were the center,
because expansion is uniform everywhere,
expansion happens in the space between galaxies,

I am sure you can make some sort of a correction to this.

Firstlightdawn · 2026-02-21T06:57:55-0600

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
No, Hans is not YEC. In fact, he's as anti-YEC as they come!

Then why does he claim there is no beginning, even though that is the first word in the Bible. Also why does he say the universe is not expanding?

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-02-21T07:05:15-0600

Firstlightdawn said:
Then why does he claim there is no beginning, even though that is the first word in the Bible. Also why does he say the universe is not expanding?

That's not what he was saying "There's no such thing" in response to. Go back to his post and see what he was replying to.

Firstlightdawn · 2026-02-21T07:26:39-0600

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
That's not what he was saying "There's no such thing" in response to. Go back to his post and see what he was replying to.

There is no fixed ratio between time flow and cosmic expansion, but the two are connected. As the universe expands, the geometry of spacetime changes, and that affects how time flows in different regions.

Expansion may be uniform overall, which means there is no single constant rate. That’s why cosmology often uses averages from the beginning of time up to the present moment. I use the Planck unit because it’s the smallest scale where the laws of physics still apply.

This approach is the only one I’ve found that brings the structure of Genesis chapter one into alignment with modern science. Others may disagree, but no one else has offered a working model, and this framework resolves the issue in a consistent way.

The days in Genesis can not be the same length. This is not consistant with what we know about the age of the universe and the expansion of the universe. Even if people think there is no connection between age and the rate of expansion.

Time is passing and the universe is expanding.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-02-21T07:31:41-0600

Firstlightdawn said:
There is no fixed ratio between time flow and cosmic expansion, but the two are connected. As the universe expands, the geometry of spacetime changes, and that affects how time flows in different regions.

Expansion may be uniform overall, which means there is no single constant rate. That’s why cosmology often uses averages from the beginning of time up to the present moment. I use the Planck unit because it’s the smallest scale where the laws of physics still apply.

This approach is the only one I’ve found that brings the structure of Genesis chapter one into alignment with modern science. Others may disagree, but no one else has offered a working model, and this framework resolves the issue in a consistent way.

The days in Genesis can not be the same length. This is not consistant with what we know about the age of the universe and the expansion of the universe. Even if people think there is no connection between age and the rate of expansion.

Time is passing and the universe is expanding.

Do you think that the problem here is that you're taking a literalist reading of the Bible, specifically Genesis, which are a series of events that cannot be described by purely naturalistic means, and trying to force it together with science that only deals with the naturalistic?

Because that's the problem I see here with your writing.

Neogaia777 · 2026-02-21T07:39:21-0600

Firstlightdawn said:
the universe has not always expanded at the same speed. In fact, cosmology tells us there were distinct eras where the expansion rate changed dramatically, including periods when it was far faster than it is today.

The best theory that we have right now is that it expanded very much more a lot faster during the past, but it is my theory that it has now settled somewhat, or a lot more so now though.

Firstlightdawn said:
But what you are saying is very interesting. The ONLY way everything can be expanding at the same rate is if everything (all) is perfectly balanced. Just as God's justice is perfectly balanced. Very exact and precise.

No, that's not the only way, even though I do think it has achieved a kind of balance now much more recently, etc, but again, that part is just only my own theory right now currently, etc.

Firstlightdawn said:
Actually there is a center to the universe. The is just nothing there, other than space.

From what we can observe right now, there is no definable center, and the universe at supergalactic scales is expanding equally everywhere, etc.

Firstlightdawn said:
God took me there in a dream when I was 8 years old. There is also a place where the universe begain, but again there is nothing there today; They are not that far apart but there has been some drift.

I don't put much faith in dreams, sorry.

Firstlightdawn said:
In an expanding universe with no edges, every point behaves like the center. Although there are two edges. One is the furthest light has traveled, the other is the furthest physical matter has traveled.

Every point in the universe behaves as if it were the center,

because expansion is uniform everywhere,

expansion happens in the space between galaxies,

I am sure you can make some sort of a correction to this.

Asked AI huh?

But, yeah, this is pretty much correct, even though I am not seeing the contradiction, etc?

But as for the barrier that light has supposedly traveled, it reaches a point that it appears to be moving out away from us as the center faster than it can travel back to us, and that is why we can't ever see any further than that, etc, but again that "picture" (or that last part) is just only an illusion though, etc.

God Bless.

Firstlightdawn · 2026-02-21T08:17:36-0600

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Do you think that the problem here is that you're taking a literalist reading of the Bible, specifically Genesis, which are a series of events that cannot be described by purely naturalistic means, and trying to force it together with science that only deals with the naturalistic?

It takes roughly 250,000 scientific books to explain what we know from just 20 words in the Bible.

And we are talking about Genesis chapter one only. Take anything out of chapter one and we can look to see what science tells us. Pick any verse. For example, Genesis 1:11:

“And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.”

It takes roughly 250,000 scientific books to explain what we know from just 20 words in the Bible.

And we are talking about Genesis chapter one only. Take anything out of chapter one and we can look to see what science tells us. Pick any verse. For example, Genesis 1:11:

“And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.”

In science, this entire subject is called botany.

Gerald Schroeder puts it this way:

“The Six Days of Genesis, which have given people so many headaches, are confined to 31 sentences! At MIT, in the Hayden Library, we had about 50,000 books that deal with the development of the universe: cosmology, chemistry, thermodynamics, paleontology, archaeology, the high‑energy physics of creation. Up the river at Harvard, at the Widener Library, they probably have 200,000 books on these same topics. The Bible gives us 31 sentences. Don’t expect that by a simple reading of those sentences, you’ll know every detail that is held within the text. It’s obvious that we have to dig deeper to get the information out.”

So yes — it takes about 250,000 scientific books to unpack what we learn from 31 biblical sentences.

And we know it’s better to read peer‑reviewed scientific journals, where the consensus of experts in each field is tested, challenged, and refined. Science gives us the mechanisms; Genesis gives us the meaning.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-02-21T08:29:10-0600

Firstlightdawn said:
It takes roughly 250,000 scientific books to explain what we know from just 20 words in the Bible.

And we are talking about Genesis chapter one only. Take anything out of chapter one and we can look to see what science tells us. Pick any verse. For example, Genesis 1:11:

It takes roughly 250,000 scientific books to explain what we know from just 20 words in the Bible.

And we are talking about Genesis chapter one only. Take anything out of chapter one and we can look to see what science tells us. Pick any verse. For example, Genesis 1:11:

In science, this entire subject is called botany.

Gerald Schroeder puts it this way:

So yes — it takes about 250,000 scientific books to unpack what we learn from 31 biblical sentences.

And we know it’s better to read peer‑reviewed scientific journals, where the consensus of experts in each field is tested, challenged, and refined. Science gives us the mechanisms; Genesis gives us the meaning.

No. Just a flat no.

weary2025 · 2026-02-21T08:39:47-0600

You cant create something from nothing. Therefore something had to always exist to create everything. Only God makes sense in that narrative

Firstlightdawn · 2026-02-21T09:29:29-0600

Neogaia777 said:
But as for the barrier that light has supposedly traveled

The Bible says beginning. I am trying to understand what that word means.
Everyone seems to want to say that Bible does not say what it says.

According to Science
At the beginning of the universe, time, space, and energy come into existence together.
None of the three can exist alone, and none can begin before the others.

They are a single event, not a sequence.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-02-21T09:33:26-0600

Firstlightdawn said:
The Bible says beginning. I am trying to understand what that word means.
Everyone seems to want to say that Bible does not say what it says.

According to Science
At the beginning of the universe, time, space, and energy come into existence together.
None of the three can exist alone, and none can begin before the others.

They are a single event, not a sequence.

You are SO CLOSE to figuring out what your problem is.

Neogaia777 · 2026-02-21T09:40:05-0600

Firstlightdawn said:
The Bible says beginning. I am trying to understand what that word means.

Why do you not understand the word beginning?

Or are you just trying to find out what beginning it is talking about maybe?

Firstlightdawn said:
Everyone seems to want to say that Bible does not say what it says.

I think people are just only in disagreement over different interpretations probably.

Finding one that's even still possible nowadays is somewhat difficult/hard, etc.

Firstlightdawn said:
According to Science
At the beginning of the universe, time, space, and energy come into existence together.
None of the three can exist alone, and none can begin before the others.

They are a single event, not a sequence.

Yes, and...?

Those are the current right now prevailing theories, etc?

So what is/what are your questions about them, etc?

Hans Blaster · 2026-02-21T09:43:46-0600

Firstlightdawn said:
Well, no reason to waste our time on "pseudoscience nonsense".

What else would I be doing here than countering pseudoscience...

Firstlightdawn said:
There is no such thing as the beginning of time and the expansion of the universe.

I don't know if there a "beginning of time" or not (no one does), but there is definitely a beginning of the expansion of the Universe.

Firstlightdawn said:
Let me give this a wild guess. You are yec and think everything was created a week ago.

LOL. I went 20+ years before I even realized YECs were still around. I first learned about the development of the Universe, Earth, and life from Carl Sagan when I was a child. I always assumed all of that "creator of heaven and earth" business in church was some sort of metaphor.

(YECs think the world was all created *in a week* not one week ago. The latter is "Last Thursdayism".

Firstlightdawn · 2026-02-21T09:44:02-0600

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
No. Just a flat no.

no the first word in the Hebrew Bible is not beginning?

no genesis 1 11 does not say: Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. no genesis 1 11 is NOT the third day?

no the library at harvard and mit do not have 250,000 books? Did you count them yourself?

no we are not talking about time, space and matter. or you just think there is no connection between time, space and matter. Or you do not beleive the equation e=mc2?

Hans Blaster · 2026-02-21T09:52:22-0600

Firstlightdawn said:
Then why does he claim there is no beginning, even though that is the first word in the Bible.

As I said in the previous post, I don't know if there is a beginning or not. A universe that always existed works perfectly

Firstlightdawn said:
Also why does he say the universe is not expanding?

I certainly don't say that. It was "time flow' and the "ratio" with expansion that was nonsense.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-02-21T09:54:17-0600

Firstlightdawn said:
no the first word in the Hebrew Bible is not beginning?

no genesis 1 11 does not say: Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. no genesis 1 11 is NOT the third day?

no the library at harvard and mit do not have 250,000 books? Did you count them yourself?

no we are not talking about time, space and matter. or you just think there is no connection between time, space and matter. Or you do not beleive the equation e=mc2?

No, to your claim that it takes 250,000 books to explain what you claim we know from 31 words in the Bible. It's just an asinine claim all around.

Firstlightdawn · 2026-02-21T09:58:20-0600

weary2025 said:
You cant create something from nothing. Therefore something had to always exist to create everything. Only God makes sense in that narrative

In the beginning was God and God created. I have found that God is absolute perfection, exact and precise and perfectly balanced. The Beginning is the begining of what we can observe. Also the beginning of what the laws of physics can explain. Nothing is a interesting word. There is NOTHING at the North Pole, but there is a invisable point that connects with a straight line to the south pole on a axis that the earth spins or rotates on. Simular to a top because the earth and a top both have a wobble. A perfectly balanced top would not wobble.

As long as we are on the subject. The Earth and the Moon attract each other. So the center they rotate around is not even in the Earth. It is out in space between the Earth and the Moon.

Firstlightdawn · 2026-02-21T10:04:10-0600

Hans Blaster said:
I don't know if there is a beginning or not

But do you agree that the word Beginning is the first word in our Hebrew Bible. I could agree with you if you were to say we do not know what the word means or how to define the first word.

Hans Blaster said:
I certainly don't say that. It was "time flow' and the "ratio" with expansion that was nonsense.

So you do agree that time, space and energy (matter) are all one and you cannot have one without the other. Even you do go a step further to say there could be an exact ratio that is consistant between them.

What dictionary do you want to use to determine the meaning of these words? God gave us a Bible, so He must have given us something that we are able to understand.

Firstlightdawn · 2026-02-21T10:09:18-0600

Hans Blaster said:
I don't know if there a "beginning of time" or not (no one does), but there is definitely a beginning of the expansion of the Universe.

Was there a time the universe began to expand? Time, space and energy are all one in science. They say you cannot have one without the other. But lots of science has been proven to be wrong. Even we know the Sun does not revolve around the Earth. So there is nothing wrong if we do not agree with Science.

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