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Sabbath Keeping and The Gospel

Studyman

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Genesis 2:2 doesn’t establish a Sabbath command for man. It simply states that God rested on the seventh day—meaning He ceased from creation. The passage describes God’s action, not an ordinance given to Adam and Eve.

It is true that there ware no or very few enumerated Laws of God until Moses, as can be clearly seen by study of Scriptures. But we know His Laws, Statutes and Commandments existed before Moses, based on what is written. Even Noah's children knew of God's Law not to look on the nakedness of their father. Clearly we are not privy to every conversation God had with Adam, Noah or Abraham. This seems quite evident according to the Scriptures. It seems foolish to create doctrine based on the assumption that we know everything God taught Adam, Noah and Abraham, because clearly we do not.

Jesus said the Sabbath was "made for man". For me, since HE was the Word of God who created the Sabbath in the first place, I would not contradict Him by assuming it wasn't "made for man", when HE made it. Nor would I assume or promote that His Word "MAN" didn't include men between Adam and Moses because there is nothing in Scriptures promoting such a teaching.

What I know for sure, based on what is written, is that the Word of God created a 7 day week, and He Esteemed the 7th Day above the other 6 days at creation. And I know it was Holy to God, and was to be Holy for God's People so much so that HE included this Commandments, along with His Commandment not to Kill, Steal, or create images of God in the likeness of men, showing me there is some significant importance in this Sanctified and set apart day.

I'm fine with that, I mean why wouldn't I be fine with that, He is God, Yes?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Hebrews said that Moses Sabbath cannot give true rest. It says that God denied that rest to them.
Please quote the verse that God's Sabbath is Moses Sabbath and where it says this in Hebrews please.

This is what God said- He both spoke and wrote this- where does it say Moses.

20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

The Sabbath predates Moses

Exo20: 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Hebrews says this rest was available from the foundation of the world

Heb 4:3
For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You know where its at im betting
If you knew you would post it since you are the one who claimed it, not me. Our faith comes from hearing the word of God. Rom10:17 God spoke directly on His Sabbath and who it belongs to. Is there anyone greater to express God's will and word than God Himself. If we don't accept His words- the word of God directly from God, nothing I can say will matter.
 
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weary2025

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If you knew you would post it since you are the one who claimed it, not me. Our faith comes from hearing the word of God. God spoke directly on His Sabbath. If we don't believe what God says directly nothing I will say will matter.
I suppose you believe one way and I believe another. I've studied the new testament commandments and I was never left with the impression that I must rest on Saturday or Sunday
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I suppose you believe one way and I believe another. I've studied the new testament commandments and I was never left with the impression that I must rest on Saturday or Sunday
I know that's popular- I believe the Sabbath is a commandment of God written by God, spoken by God. Exo31:18 And still a commandment in the NT Luke23:56. NT shows God's people keeping God's commandments Exo20:6 John14:15 1John5:3 Rev14:12 Rev22:14 God wrote and spoke His commandments and collectively God them His Exo20:6 Jesus said the Sabbath was made for mankind - so unless one is not a man, they may be missing out on some important blessings God is trying to give His faithful Isa 56:2 Isa 56:6
 
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Studyman

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Hebrews said that Moses Sabbath cannot give true rest. It says that God denied that rest to them.

Hebrews says they were denied because of unbelief. You can read this for yourself in Ezekiel.

Ez. 20: 10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. 11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

So they fell in the wilderness and did not enter, but God came to their children and promoted the same Gospel.

Ez. 20: 18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes "of your fathers", neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:

19 I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; 20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. 21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.

So what does Hebrews teach us?

Heb. 3: 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not "with them that had sinned",( Worked iniquity, Yes?) whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but "to them" that believed not? (Caleb and Joshua believed, Yes?) 19 So we see that "they could not enter in "because of unbelief". 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. (Caleb and Joshua entered, Yes?)

Paul confirms this teaching.

Rom. 11: 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; "because of unbelief" they were broken off, and thou standest by faith (Belief). Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Shall we not believe these Words?
 
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BobRyan

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Don't think highly of yourself as you ought to be. If you sin you're a "Slave to Sin" this the word of Jesus.

The reason why you follow God is because of God's choice Not yours. 1Corin 1
God's choice:
"God IS NOT WILLING that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance" 2 Pet 3
"if I be lifted up I will draw ALL mankind unto Me" John 12:32
"God so Loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son" John 3;16
"He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only, but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2
 
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weary2025

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Hebrews says they were denied because of unbelief. You can read this for yourself in Ezekiel.

Ez. 20: 10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. 11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

So they fell in the wilderness and did not enter, but God came to their children and promoted the same Gospel.

Ez. 20: 18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes "of your fathers", neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:

19 I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; 20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. 21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.

So what does Hebrews teach us?

Heb. 3: 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not "with them that had sinned",( Worked iniquity, Yes?) whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but "to them" that believed not? (Caleb and Joshua believed, Yes?) 19 So we see that "they could not enter in "because of unbelief". 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Paul confirms this teaching.

Rom. 11: 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; "because of unbelief" they were broken off, and thou standest by faith (Belief). Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Shall we not believe these Words?
When Hebrews mentioned another day of rest it wasn't referring to Saturday Sabbath
 
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BobRyan

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I suppose you believe one way and I believe another. I've studied the new testament commandments and I was never left with the impression that I must rest on Saturday or Sunday
Many people take that line and say
"I was never left with the impression that I should not use graven images in worship service"
"I was never left with the impression that I should read the old testament"
"I was never left with the impression that something said by God before Jesus was resurrected, and in heaven with New Covenant "
"I was never left with the impression that I should ignore what the Pope says "
"I was never left with the impression that there is no such thing as Purgatory "
"I was never left with the impression that the Catholic church should not have persecuted Protestants "
"I was never left with the impression that Protestant nations should not not have persecuted their Catholic citizens "
...

Many many variations on that theme
 
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weary2025

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Many people take that line and say
"I was never left with the impression that I should not use graven images in worship service"
"I was never left with the impression that I should read the old testament"
"I was never left with the impression that something said by God before Jesus was resurrected, and in heaven with New Covenant "
"I was never left with the impression that I should ignore what the Pope says "
"I was never left with the impression that there is no such thing as Purgatory "
"I was never left with the impression that the Catholic church should not have persecuted Protestants "
"I was never left with the impression that Protestant nations should not not have persecuted their Catholic citizens "
...

Many many variations on that theme
There is a difference between graven images and Saturday Sabbath. There is no good reason to create and worship such images. But Sabbath is highly debatable. How do i know that God's Sabbath that he wants us to observe isn't on any certain day of the week but is some mystery of Christ?
 
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BobRyan

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When Hebrews mentioned another day of rest it wasn't referring to Saturday Sabbath
"Heb 3 and 4 reference "TODAY ' as the day to repent and turn to God

James 2 "he who breaks one of the commandments breaks them all"
Acts 18:4 Paul was preaching the Gospel in the synagogues to both gentiles and Jews "every Sabbath"
Acts 13 Gentiles wait for Jews to leave the synagogue then ask Paul for more Gospel to be scheduled "on the NEXT Sabbath"
Jer 31:31-34 God writes the moral "Law on the heart under the New Covenant" , the Law known to Jeremiah and his readers
Deut 4 say that it includes "The TEN Commandments"
Deut 5 says He spoke the TEN "And added no more" -- showing that at the very least the TEN are included in the Law
 
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BobRyan

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There is a difference between graven images and Saturday Sabbath
Commandments regarding both in the TEN

There is a difference between "do not take God's name in vain" and "Honor your father and mother" but BOTH are in the moral law of God
. There is no good reason to create and worship such images.
depending on which Christian denomination you are in
But Sabbath is highly debatable
Not in the Ten Conmmandments
. How do i know that God's Sabbath that he wants us to observe isn't on any certain day of the week but is some mystery of Christ?
Read the actual commandment and see for yourself
 
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weary2025

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"Heb 3 and 4 reference "TODAY ' as the day to repent and turn to God

James 2 "he who breaks one of the commandments breaks them all"
Acts 18:4 Paul was preaching the Gospel in the synagogues to both gentiles and Jews "every Sabbath"
Acts 13 Gentiles wait for Jews to leave the synagogue then ask Paul for more Gospel to be scheduled "on the NEXT Sabbath"
Jer 31:31-34 God writes the moral "Law on the heart under the New Covenant" , the Law known to Jeremiah and his readers
Deut 4 say that it includes "The TEN Commandments"
Deut 5 says He spoke the TEN "And added no more" -- showing that at the very least the TEN are included in the Law
The jews in the synagogues were circumcised too
 
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weary2025

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Commandments regarding both in the TEN

There is a difference between "do not take God's name in vain" and "Honor your father and mother" but BOTH are in the moral law of God

depending on which Christian denomination you are in

Not in the Ten Conmmandments

Read the actual commandment and see for yourself
So who decides how you observe Sabbath? Where are the rules?
 
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Studyman

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When Hebrews mentioned another day of rest it wasn't referring to Saturday Sabbath

Of course not, it was referring to the Promised Land, Yes? Eternal Life with God, no fear, no tears, etc., isn't that what the "Promised Land" represents? But for those who didn't believe in Him, shown by their refusal to respect and honor His Judgments, walking not in His Commandments, and polluting His Sabbaths, these men were not allowed into the Promised Land, because of unbelief. (Children in whom was no faith) But Joshua and Caleb were allowed to enter, because they believed God, shown by their Faith, as they followed God fully. You can find these undeniable Biblical Truths in the Scriptures. But not from listening to other voices in the world God placed us in, that don't believe God.

My friend, Seek the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness, and you will find the "Good Works" God before ordained that men should walk in them. And then believe Him by walking in them, it's called "Faith". If all men seek is justification for an adopted religion that despises HIS Judgments, refuses to walk in His Commandments, and pollutes God's Sabbaths creating their own high days instead, then as Jesus said, you already have your reward, and will not be allowed to enter "HIS" Rest.

Rom. 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

There are "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that don't believe Him, just as I didn't, "Wherein in time past I walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

But now, as for me and my family, we believe the Word of God, and I am simply advocating that others do as well.
 
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weary2025

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Of course not, it was referring to the Promised Land, Yes? Eternal Life with God, no fear, no tears, etc., isn't that what the "Promised Land" represents? But for those who didn't believe in Him, shown by their refusal to respect and honor His Judgments, walking not in His Commandments, and polluting His Sabbaths, these men were not allowed into the Promised Land, because of unbelief. (Children in whom was no faith) But Joshua and Caleb were allowed to enter, because they believed God, shown by their Faith, as they followed God fully. You can find these undeniable Biblical Truths in the Scriptures. But not from listening to other voices in the world God placed us in, that don't believe God.

My friend, Seek the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness, and you will find the "Good Works" God before ordained that men should walk in them. And then believe Him by walking in them, it's called "Faith". If all men seek is justification for an adopted religion that despises HIS Judgments, refuses to walk in His Commandments, and pollutes God's Sabbaths creating their own high days instead, then as Jesus said, you already have your reward, and will not be allowed to enter "HIS" Rest.

Rom. 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

There are "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that don't believe Him, just as I didn't, "Wherein in time past I walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

But now, as for me and my family, we believe the Word of God, and I am simply advocating that others do as well.
You see land that isn't mentioned but I see another rest that is mentioned in contrast to Saturday Sabbath
 
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Mercy Shown

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Not so fast you write:

Scripture also makes clear that faith itself is not a self-generated achievement. Ephesians 2:8–9 states: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Even the faith through which we receive salvation is described as a gift. God grants us “a measure of faith” (Romans 12:3), enabling us to respond to Him. Apart from His gracious initiative, we would remain spiritually inert.

My response:
The following is 100 % my knowledge of Salvation from 43 years of study. Not AI. For clarity and organization I utilize AI to organize my input into a format that is easier to read.


I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. The New Testament does not explicitly teach that salvation is 100% entirely by God’s grace alone in the sense you are presenting it, and I believe your position reflects a misunderstanding of both grace and faith.




1. Clarifying Ephesians 2:8–9​


You will likely appeal to:




However, your premise needs to be examined more carefully in light of how Scripture defines faith.




2. What Is “Faith”? — Defined by Jesus​


Consider:




Here, Jesus connects Abraham not merely to belief, but to what he did.


What were Abraham’s defining works?​


  1. Believing God’s promise
    – That he would have a son despite old age and Sarah’s barrenness
  2. Obedience to God
    – Being willing to sacrifice Isaac



Key Point:​


Jesus presents Abraham’s example in a way that shows:


  • Faith is not passive—it is something expressed in action
  • Obedience is something you do

Faith and obedience are inseparable. Faith is not mere mental agreement—it is something actively exercised.




3. Re-examining “Not of Works”​


If faith involves action, we must be careful not to create a contradiction within the same passage when Paul says “not of works” (Ephesians 2:9).


Because Paul also says:




So in the same statement:


  • Salvation is through faith
  • And not of works



The Key Issue:​


If faith is defined as a “work” in the same sense Paul is rejecting, then the passage would contradict itself:


  • “Saved through faith”
  • but “not of works”

That would reduce to:
“You are saved by a work, but not by works” — which is inconsistent.




Therefore, a necessary distinction must be made:​


Paul is using the term “works” in a specific sense, not in the broad sense of “anything a person does.”




What kind of “works” is Paul rejecting?​


Paul is excluding meritorious and ritual works, such as:


  • Circumcision
  • Works of the Law
  • External religious acts done to establish one’s own righteousness

These are works that produce grounds for boasting.




Clarified Understanding:​


  • Faith does involve action (as seen in Abraham)
  • But it is not a meritorious or ritual work like circumcision
  • It is the means of receiving, not the basis for earning



Restated Conclusion:​


Ephesians 2:8–9 is not denying that we must respond—it is denying that salvation comes through works that earn merit or produce boasting.


Faith is active and obedient, but it does not earn salvation. It is the response God requires.




4. What Is Grace?​


At its core, grace means favor. Scripture shows this favor operating in two ways:


  1. Unconditional Grace (Offer of Favor)
  2. Conditional Grace (Reception of the Benefit)



5. The Parable of the Great Supper (Luke 14)​




What do we observe?​


  • The invitation was given freely (unconditional grace)
  • No qualifications were required to receive the invitation

However:




And the result:






Key Conclusion from the Parable:​


  • The offer was unconditional
  • The benefit was conditional upon response

They were invited—but they did not respond—and therefore did not receive the benefit.




6. Applying This to Salvation​


This aligns with:




Notice:


  • Salvation is tied to conditions
  • Believing and confessing are required responses



7. Final Summary​


  • Grace provides the invitation (unearned favor)
  • Faith is the response (active, obedient trust)
  • The benefit of salvation is conditional upon that response

So while salvation originates with God’s grace, it is not accurate to say it is entirely accomplished apart from any human participation, because Scripture consistently presents faith as something we must actively exercise.




If we follow Jesus’ teaching in John 8:39, faith is not passive—it is demonstrated through action. Therefore, salvation involves both:


  • God’s gracious initiative
  • Man’s obedient response of faith
I can't believe I am debating AI on spiritual issues but I think some clarification is needed. After reading AI's outline here let me boil it down to the key takeaways. I put AI's words in italics. Also it is good to note that AI has never experienced God or anything else for that matter.

Faith Is Not Passive - Jesus presents Abraham as an example of true faith (John 8:39). Abraham’s faith was expressed in action—believing God’s promise and obeying Him. Therefore, biblical faith is active and obedient, not mere mental agreement.

My response to this point is to ask the question, how does a dead man have faith? Paul describes our initial condition as "dead in our sins and tresspasses." So to have faith as a work one must be alive. So how is life achieved by a dead man? It can't be done unless an outside force or power does it. Thank God that He did this for us. He "made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions"

“Not of Works” Must Be Properly Defined (Ephesians 2:8–9) If faith involves action, Paul cannot be rejecting all action when he says “not of works.” Otherwise, the passage would contradict itself (“saved through faith” but “not by works”).
Therefore, Paul is rejecting meritorious or ritual works (e.g., works of the Law, circumcision) that produce boasting—not the obedient response of faith.


Of course this all hinges on us being alive which I have already outlined in my previous response. "Faith involves action" is a phrase that means one of two things. Either it means that we take action to create faith or that faith produces action. For legalists it is the former but faith is a gift, a measure given to each person when they are made alive. When Paul says, "not by works." That is exactly what he means. Our salvation came upon us even when we were dead in our sins. Does that mean that works are not performed by believers? Of course not, but it would be a huge mistake to think that they were in any way a causative factor in our salvation because they are only the fruit of it.

Faith Is the Means, Not the Merit Faith involves response and action, but it does not earn salvation. It receives what grace provides. It is not a work that merits salvation, but the God-required response to grace.

In order to have faith we must first have been made alive. So salvation must come upon us first. This implies that the only thing we do in being saved is to not resist.

Grace Includes Invitation and Required Response In the Parable of the Great Supper (Luke 14), the invitation is freely given (grace), but participation requires response. Those who refuse the invitation do not receive the benefit.
Thus, grace is freely offered, but its benefits are received conditionally upon response.

One must be made alive in order to respond.

Salvation Is Tied to Response. Scripture connects salvation to believing and confessing (Romans 10:9–13). These are required responses, not meritorious works.

I would argue all are made alive by Christs death and those who do not resist it will be made fit for eternal life through Christ and grow in good works onto a likeness of Christ. Those who once have been made alive who choose to resist will fall back into death.
 
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Mercy Shown

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There is something we can do according to Jesus

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Jesus is not going to force anyone to love Him - during the day when someone asks us a question, we can choose to lie or tell the truth, God never made us robots, we should know which direction to answer is right in the eyes of God and practice what is doing right.1John3:7 While no one can live up to His perfect standard and will without the power of the Holy Spirit, we still have our part- we can hear His voice Heb3:7-19 respond to His call and love Him enough to cooperate with Him and the Holy Spirit to give us victory over temptation and sin. He works in us to do His good will and pleasure, we have to cooperate and love Him more than we love our sins. John3:19-21
You can't love him unless you have been made alive. None of these things you mention are possible unless we are saved first.
 
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