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Sabbath Keeping and The Gospel

truthuprootsevil

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Sadly, its starting to happen again with the national Sunday law. History repeats, Jesus was persecuted for not keeping the Jews man-made sabbath, when we start legislating beliefs and religion, persecution is always to follow. Our only safeguard is to stay true to God and keep Him close. God bless!
Now I fully understand why some are against it.

Here in the US before the 1970s there was a blue law used for Sundays which was not to work, even though some had to - the only stores allowed to open were those that sell groceries. I thought this worldwide Sunday law that maybe being pushed would be something as that of those days. Now I understand it seems to be about totally trying to erase The Seventh-Day Sabbath of God.

Thank you again and I will use the information that you gave me to point out how the church ordered Christians to disobey God's Sabbath.
 
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truthuprootsevil

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St. Constantine neither banned worship or rest on the Seventh Day, nor did he mandate worship on the First Day, so this argument is irrelevant.
It is Well recorded Constantine made it law / law is mandating / worship to be on the first day and to top it off I have just learned the church ruled to people to ignore the Seventh-Day Sabbath and not regarded as a day of rest but to work on the seventh day. And it is my belief as well as the belief of others Constantine also wanted to eliminate the 7th day worship.

Philip Schaff: NPNF2-14. The Seven Ecumenical Councils - Christian Classics Ethereal Library Philip Schaff: NPNF2-14. The Seven Ecumenical Councils - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
 
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Hentenza

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My sources are from Scripture and my own Bible study unless noted. I consider this goading so I am asking you to stop responding to me now and in the future.
It is not goading but I will not touch this subject again unless you don’t cite your sources but I will continue to confront your arguments. I can post where I want.

ETA: other posters are also entitled to question your sources in particular if it looks copied from somewhere and you are obligated by site rules to cite your sources. This is why questioning your sources is not goading.
 
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Bob S

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Jesus came to save mankind. Studying the Old Testament, we find that only through faith can man be rewarded with eternal life. All of man's law-keeping could not save him. Ex 19:
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


Nothing is said by God that the covenant pertained to salvation. It took the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross to give mankind the promise of salvation and over and over, New Testament scripture explains we are not under the old Law, yet there are some that keep posting that where it says keep the commandments means the old law. Nowhere in the New Testament can we find it telling us to keep the Ten Commandments. In fact, in 2Cor 3:7-11, it tells us just the opposite. Matthew 5:17-18 tells us that Jesus came to fulfill (bring to an end) the Old Law and the prophecies concerning His coming, but it would not happen until Jesus completed His mission to give His life so that we all can have eternal life.
 

The Liturgist

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It is Well recorded Constantine made it law / law is mandating / worship to be on the first day and to top it off I have just learned the church ruled to people to ignore the Seventh-Day Sabbath and not regarded as a day of rest but to work on the seventh day.

That’s simply not true - have you bothered to read St. Constantine’s decree? Because if you had you would note it did not require worship on the First Day, it merely required the closure of the markets and certain other things, making Sunday a day of rest in urban areas; but did not compel church attendance. Indeed even the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]os Populos of St. Thedosius, which banned Paganism, Arianism, and other non-Christian religions, making Christianity the state religion, and was the act by which the complete closure of all Pagan temples in the Roman Empire began (which was complete by around 400 AD), did not actually mandate church attendance.

The Council of Laodicea, which is what you are referring to and linked to, furthermore, was not, as I noted in reply to the member who posted it, an ecumenical council, meaning its decrees did not apply to the entire Church, but were limited to the Greek Orthodox Church in Laodicea*.

And it is my belief as well as the belief of others Constantine also wanted to eliminate the 7th day worship.

I would urge you to conduct an impartial, dispassionate, critical analysis of the subject matter. For example, the actual legislation of the 321 decree is as follows:

"On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.
In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits;
because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost."

Source:
Codex Justinianus, Book 3, Title 12, Law 3

* Laodicea is located in what is now Turkey, but at the time was part of Phrygia, a region of Asia Minor, which had a substantial Christian population until the genocide of Armenians, Assyrians and Pontic Greeks in 1915 and the subsequent population transfers and pogroms targeting Christians therein
 
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The Liturgist

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Thank you for that I didn't know that the churches at that point in time initiated such rules. I have to keep personal notes of this. God bless you

They did not, as a whole, Laodicea being a local council, not an ecumenical one. Furthermore it did not prohibit rest on the Seventh Day, merely rest in accordance with the requirements of Jewish law (such as a prohibition on gathering food - which Christ engaged in and was criticized for by the Pharisees). The tradition of the Pharisees was the Tradition of Men referred to by Christ our True God in Mark 7:13 (which some people attempt to apply to the tradition followed by the Orthodox or Roman Catholics).
 
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The Liturgist

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No - Southern Baptist but I do agree with a lot of their teachings concerning the Sabbath.

I have time to time attended Sabbath worship but primary day of worship for me is the first day, Sunday as I was raised to do.

What I do now that I can -- is respect the seventh day Sabbath -- remembering the seventh day Sabbath -- refraining from or doing my best to refrain from that which God would have me to.

Have you talked to your minister about this issue?

For example, Matthew 12:1-8, Mark 2:23-28 and Luke 6:1-5 describe Christ our True God and His disciples gathering wheat on the Sabbath, for which they were criticized (also for Christ healing the sick on the Sabbath). Adventists in my experience regard shopping on the Sabbath, even to obtain food, as prohibited, but clearly obtaining food on the Sabbath is permissible, since our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ did so. This takes us to the whole complex issue as to what does and does not constitute a sinful breach of the Sabbath, which takes us into legalism.

I would also note the hardline Adventist position is that worship on Sunday is “the mark of the beast” so in their view, you are sinning by attending worship on Sunday even if you rest and/or also attend worship on Saturday (this being what I particularly take issue with; if it were not for the fact that a minority Adventists aggressive attack and criticize other Christians and aggressively promote their Christianity as being superior and as an ideal form of Sola Scriptura Christianity (which is debatable given the definition of Sola Scriptura we find from, for instance, Martin Luther), I would not be critical of them; I have no objection to them doing their own thing as long as that thing does not involve attacks directed against non-Sabbatarian Christians (or, in some cases, the mistreatment of veterans who felt morally compelled to engage in military service contra the pacifist position of the SDA denomination).
 
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tall73

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You go outside of the Bible constantly to arrive at your interpretation because your arguments are based on SDA Bible commentaries and EG white which are not scripture.


I don’t gaslight. Some of your interpretations and arguments come from the SDA commentaries as @tall73 has shown in his posts to you.

Well, no, you misunderstood. If you go back and read again even the SDA scholars disagreed with Sabbathblessings regarding the use of Sabbatismos there. They don't think the passage is talking about two Sabbaths as she alleges, and think it is talking about entering into the rest of faith.

So, whatever you think of her interpretation, she did not just go with the Adventist commentary.
 
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Hentenza

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Well, no, you misunderstood. If you go back and read again even the SDA scholars disagreed with Sabbathblessings regarding the use of Sabbatismos there. They don't think the passage is talking about two Sabbaths as she alleges, and think it is talking about entering into the rest of faith.

So, whatever you think of her interpretation, she did not just go with the Adventist commentary.
Thanks for the clarification.
 
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Mercy Shown

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The gospel teaches that salvation is accomplished entirely by God’s grace in Christ and received through faith apart from works. Because justification is finished, obedience is no longer a means of earning acceptance but a grateful response to it. Within this framework, seventh-day Sabbath observance can be understood not as a legal requirement but as a freely chosen act of worship that confesses God as Creator and Redeemer. Resting on the seventh day does not compete with Christ’s finished work; it bears witness to it by declaring that human striving is not the ground of salvation.


The Sabbath itself precedes the Mosaic covenant and is rooted in God’s creational rest, indicating that its purpose is not merely ceremonial but formative—shaping human life around dependence on God rather than productivity. In Christ, the Sabbath’s deepest meaning is fulfilled, not erased: believers enter true rest by trusting in Jesus’ completed work. Observing the seventh day, therefore, can function as a gospel-shaped practice that reinforces this truth rather than undermining it, much like prayer or generosity—disciplines that do not justify but express faith.


New Testament freedom does not require the abandonment of embodied practices, but their reorientation. Paul’s insistence that believers not judge one another regarding days protects consciences from compulsion, not from devotion. A Christian who honors the seventh day “to the Lord” does so in freedom, not obligation, and thus remains fully aligned with justification by faith alone. Such observance is not a denial of fulfillment in Christ but a voluntary participation in a creational rhythm that points to the rest He provides.


Seen this way, seventh-day Sabbath keeping is not a rival to Sunday worship nor a boundary marker of spiritual status. It is a, grace-driven response to the gospel—an enacted confession that God alone creates, redeems, and restores His people. Far from contradicting gospel theology, this posture applies its central insight: that the gospel does not abolish obedience, but transforms its motive, meaning, and spirit.
What started out as way to show that Sabbath Keeping can fit into the gospel of Grace has descended into a dog fight over rules and regulations. Nowhere in this is Christ the center of our discussion and praise. Sabbath has been elevated to an idol that is revered and worshiped instead of Jesus Christ. If anyone believes in, adheres to and trusts in Jesus he or she will receive eternal life and this should be our praise rather than the keeping of a day or obedience to a rule. The shepherd never scolded or required penance from the little lamb that caused so much trouble by wandering off not obeying the shepherd. Instead the shepherd went out into the dark stormy night and sought and found the lamb. Picked it up and tucked it inside his own vestments to warm it with his own body heat. Never did the shepherd worry about what rules it had broken or what day it kept holy.
 
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tall73

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Jesus tells you the answer to this question in Matt. 23:1-4. As I pointed out in earlier post, the Apostles also understood that the Gentiles would grow in the knowledge of God by hearing the Holy Scriptures
that Paul taught both Jew and Gentile were trustworthy

I agree the Gentiles would hear the Scriptures, and that often would be in synagogues since they were read there, until the point in a given region they were put out of the synagogue.

"for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.". Why else would the Gentiles be in the Temple in Jerusalem in Acts 21? Why is Paul bringing Gentiles into the Temple in the first place, if not to hear Moses?
Acts 21:27-29​
27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, “Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.” 29 (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.) (NKJV)

The text doesn't say he brought them in.

It is believing "all" of Paul teaching that caused me to "prove" the popular religious philosophy promoted by religions that existed in the world God placed me in, that in Acts 15 the Pharisees and religious leaders of Jerusalem were trying to persuade people to obey God's Commandments, but the Apostles turned the Gentiles away from God's Commandments, accept the 4 mentioned.

That philosophy can only stand if you take a sentence or two from the chapter, separate them from the rest of the Bible, then create doctrine by them alone.

Now let me ask you a question if it is allowed. According to your understanding, "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?", is this Yoke here the Laws of God, or the commandments and religious traditions of man?

Acts 15:5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” 6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.” (NKJV)​
In context Peter appears to be indicating the Pharisee contingent is speaking of justification by law, and he notes that God already accepted the Gentiles, giving them the Spirit, and purified their hearts by faith. The Jewish believers too are saved by faith.

He is not saying that the law could not be kept:

Deu 30:11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you today, by loving the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess.​


How so? Is it a LAW of God that a man must make a "Vow"? Will you answer my questions?

Deuteronomy 23:21-23​
21 “When you make a vow to the LORD your God, you shall not delay to pay it; for the LORD your God will surely require it of you, and it would be sin to you. 22 But if you abstain from vowing, it shall not be sin to you. 23 That which has gone from your lips you shall keep and perform, for you voluntarily vowed to the LORD your God what you have promised with your mouth. (NKJV)​

In context this is a Nazarite vow, and likely purification for the men who started a vow and then were defiled.

Here is what I am seeing. The religious philosophy of this world that exists in the world God placed me in, and the Pharisees, which were the mainstream religion of the world God placed Paul in, are accusing Paul of "teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place"., and that Paul "teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs."

But Paul defended himself as to this accusation.

Well before he defended himself the Jerusalem church defended him on this point:

Acts 21:20-24​
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. (NKJV)​


The Jewish believers in Jerusalem did not think these accusations against Paul were true, and believed he also kept the law.

So no, I do not take issue with James or Paul.

Good.

You are not understanding my post, I know Paul was led by God, and no, my post doesn't suggest that Paul was led astray.
Good.

I don't believe the implications of modern religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting, that God treats people according to the DNA they were born with, and if a man isn't born with Jewish DNA, then the only limitations he is to place on his Free will is "that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."

Acts 21:25​
25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.” (NKJV)​

James and the church in Jerusalem, who you said you have no issue with, are the ones who said this, referring back to the same decision of the council years earlier.

And I come to this understanding, by considering all of Paul's teaching, and all of Jesus' teaching and everything written in the Law and Prophets, as opposed to selecting this sentence, separating it from the rest of the Bible, then creating doctrines based on these words alone.

Not just those, but the ones from the whole church, that seemed good to the Holy Spirit.

Acts 15:28-29​
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. (NKJV)​


I advocate that we don't adopt the religious views of any "voice" other than God's,

Ok, then I will go with what I read in the Scriptures, including what was of the Holy Spirit for the Gentiles.


We are warned over and over and over and over and over and over about the "other voices" in the world God placed us in. Voices who professes to know God and even quotes some of God's Word to justify disobedience to God.

Kind of like you are doing by saying that not being required to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses means they are actually to keep the law of Moses, but just work up to it?

Even though years later James still stuck by what the council decided?

If you have no objection to Paul or James in Acts 21, you have no reason to change what was said.
 
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