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Why do we do things not written in the Bible?

ARBITER01

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As per your request I will not dwell on this, but I do want to reiterate that’s not the case, that I have nothing but love for you, and if Christ our True God has given you a vocation to produce a new translation of Scripture I cannot object to that; I am not a cessationist I am also deeply frustrated with most recent translations of Scripture either for taking liberties with the text on the basis of popular sentiment among the mainline churches, for example, the use of “inclusive language” in the recent rewrite of the NIV, and the blatant attempt to water down St. Paul’s warning about the dangers of sodomy in the NRSVue, just for an example (thus my offer to help if you were to distribute your version publicly as

A lot of these same concerns were shown me by The Holy Spirit back in the early 90's. Bible committees are useless, scholars have basically given up on trying to find the original text, seminaries are producing atheists, using atheist textbooks,.. etc, etc. GOD is well aware of what mankind is currently doing with HIS word, hence why I think HE would rather trust an individual that is dependent upon The Holy Spirit than a committee anymore.

GOD had me go back to the text of the reformers and start updating it.

EDIT: Here is a section that I have of Romans that is somewhat complete, dealing with that topic you were talking about,....


24 ¶ Wherefore, GOD also giveth them over in the lusts of their hearts, to the uncleanliness of dishonoring their bodies amongst themselves,

25 Who change the truth of GOD into a lie, and worship and serve the creation over The CREATOR, Who is blessed for evermore. Amen.

26 ¶ For this reason, GOD giveth them over unto dishonorable passions, for even their females exchange the natural use for that which is against nature,

27 And likewise also the males, leaving the natural use of the female, burn in their lust for one another, males with males performing indecency, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error, which is due.

28 And accordingly, as they refuse to have GOD in their knowledge, GOD giveth them over to a reprobate mind, to be doing that which is not proper,

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and depravity;

30 Becoming whisperers, slanderers, haters of GOD, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient unto parents,

31 Unintelligent, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, and unmerciful,

32 Who, knowing the judgement of GOD, that those committing such things art worthy of death, not only do them, but also approve of those practicing them.



That’s very kind; I am a wretched sinner, but one who does care about you. God bless you.

As Christians, we are no longer dominated by sin, hence we are not sinners. We can possible be tempted into sin, but we do not have a day and night slavery to it anymore.
 
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Bro.T

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Even if that were true, which it is not, its also a red herring, since the preaching in question still happened on the First Day according to how days were reckoned.

So that proves nothing, since what we now regard ad Saturday Night, they regarded as the eve of the First Day, and thus, the first day is the first day.

However, we know that the descent of the Holy Spirit occurred in the morning of Sunday, because, well, Scripture:

Let’s take a look at Acts chapter 2:

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.” 14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:….

In some Bible translations, this is rendered as the third hour, which in antiquity in the Greek language, in which Acts was written, referred to the third hour from sunrise. The third hour is usually around 9 AM, hence the translation in question rendering it as such.

But let us say instead it was the third hour after sunset. Well, it would (a) still be Sunday, but (b) St. Peter’s remark would make no sense at all, since by the third hour after sunset, many people are quite drunk indeed, especially in mid May, when the Descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost happened.
In the scriptures it's written in Leviticus 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (verse 2) Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

Look at verse 2. Does it state the feast of the Jews, or the Feast of the Lord? These feasts are holy gatherings. These feasts are not a request, they are commandments. 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Leviticus 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Notice, once again the book states these are the feasts of the Lord, and they are Holy gatherings and must be observed in their season. We cannot observe these days when we get ready. They must be observed when the Lord says they must be observed. We also find the Lord's weekly Sabbath and also the Lord's High and Holy Days.

Now let’s return to Leviticus 23 and pick up the next High and Holy Day, this is Pentecost.
How long should we observe this day?

Leviticus 23:21 “And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.”

It shall be observed forever, no servile work shall be done on this day and you must have a holy gathering. These High and Holy Days are not a request, they are commandments.

Let's go into Acts chapter 2 and see what day all of Israel was keeping when the spirit of God fell on the brethren and they were speaking their own language, but the other brothers from all over the known world understood them. Remember what you are about to read is after the death of Jesus. This will let you know we are still to observe these days. Pay close attention and see what Pentecost is about.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

These Israelites weren't tarrying for the Holy Ghost. They were there observing the day of Pentecost. They were simply keeping the Law the Lord gave our forefathers in the wilderness. Thousands of years, later Peter and all the other Israelites that were present were simply keeping the Day of Pentecost.

Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

This rushing mighty wind John chapter 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (born of the spirit). Cloven tongues like as fire Psalms 104:4 “Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire

Let's continue.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Notice what it says Jews out of every nation. Why were they in Jerusalem? Because it was the Law. This Law is for everyone not only Israel, but for all the sons of Adam. One God One Law for all.

Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Notice what's being said. The multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. They were all amazed and marveled. Why were they amazed? Because Peter and the Apostles were Galileans, and the entire multitude understood them when they spoke in their own language.

Nowhere within these verses does it say, "Peter and the Apostles began to babble or run across the back of chairs. Where does it state, "they began to gyrate fall down on the floor and scream GLORAAAAY! The book doesn't state this anywhere. The verses state understanding not confusion.

The word Pentecost simply means fifty that's all. But we have people who have built entire doctrines around this word. All the yelling, screaming, and babbling are done in vain. In other words it's all for nothing.

It was the angels who did the interpreting. The "rushing mighty wind and the cloven tongues of fire" were simply angels. Peter was doing the talking and the angles interpreted. An example of this is the United Nation. Let's say the Russian ambassador stood up to speak. He would speak in his native tongue but each dignitary would understand him. How? They would have an interpreter speaking to them through a ear piece. But in Peter's and the apostle’s case, the angels did the interpreting

Let's continue.

Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Notice it states, "We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God." No confusion, simply understanding.

Acts 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, “What meaneth this?” 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

If you have ever seen someone drunk the person can barely speak their own language.

Now pay close attention to the next set of verses. Let's find out what the 50th day (Pentecost) is about.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Peter said this is what the Prophet Joel spoke about. This Prophecy will take place in the last days. We are in the last day’s sisters and brothers and this will take place not to far down in the future. Take a look at the 20th verse; it gives us a sign of the day of the Lord. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come. This Prophecy was called thousands of years before Jesus came in the flesh. Let us take a look at the Prophet Joel.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel and Peter were aware of this day. Now let's see what time this will take place. Let's go to Revelation the 6th chapter.

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

What time will this take place? Peter said the Prophet Joel talked about this and they also said this is the day of the Lord. The day of Pentecost is more than just a regular day, it is the Day of the Lord's return.

Let's finish this chapter in Revelation.

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

This is when Jesus will return and take the earth down by force. This will all take place in the year of Pentecost. Pentecost will be the year the Lord will return.
 
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Bro.T

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Before you ask this question, you must first establish the fact that all Christian truths are found in the Bible. And you must establish that using just the Bible.
Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.
 
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Jan001

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Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.
The heaven and earth (temple) of the Jews passed away in 70 AD.

Matthew 5:18
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

The Law of Moses was fulfilled/completed/finished by Jesus Christ. John 19:30

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.


Jesus stated that he came to earth fulfill the prophecies that were written about him in the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets.

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and every one enters it violently.


After the resurrection, Jesus explains that he fulfilled/finished the Law of Moses and the Prophets by his death on the cross.

Luke 24:44
Then he said to them, “These are my words which I spoke to you, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled.”


The new covenant Law of Christ (grace) is now in force. Romans 10:4, 1 Corinthians 9:21

Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Galatians 3:23-26
Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.


The Law of Moses with its sabbaths, new moon laws, etc., are obsolete. Hebrews 8:13 (It vanished completely in 70 AD).
 
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Hentenza

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I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was showing you with Scripture verses how I came to believe the way I do.

I do not know what you are expecting from me.
No need to apologize but I, of course, forgive you. The exchange of ideas in sites like this can get messy and sometimes the appearance of debate rather than conversation can lead to animosity. I’m guilty of that at times as I think just about everyone else is. These days, other than debating ideas on legalism where shall we say I let my worse side emerge, I prefer to just exchange ideas in a non judgmental, there does not have to be a winner, friendly manner. There is a lot to learn from all Christians from every denomination if one just listens. That doesn’t mean that one has to agree or change their beliefs.

I have friends here from just about every denomination and I value their individual contribution to how we understand Christianity. So among this group we respect and understand each other’s beliefs. Anyway we’ll have plenty of time to talk.
 
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The Liturgist

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Nowhere within these verses does it say, "Peter and the Apostles began to babble or run across the back of chairs. Where does it state, "they began to gyrate fall down on the floor and scream GLORAAAAY! The book doesn't state this anywhere. The verses state understanding not confusion.

Red herring fallacy, strawman fallacy and non-sequitur. I am not a Pentecostal or Charismatic Christian, I am an Orthodox Christian; the practices you discuss do not constitute, according to leading Orthodox figures, what the spiritual gifts look like, and indeed the Orthodox Church finds the kind of thing you are discussing (I believe you’re referring to the “Toronto Blessing” but it could be any number of Charismatic practices) to be … very troubling (see Orthodoxy and The Religion of the Future by Fr. Seraphim Rose, which also addressed the issues posed by popular interest in Buddhism, Hinduism and non-Christian religions or “spiritualities” as people liked to call them from the Orient, religious syncretism, and warned of the dangers of UFO cults, among other things, and was written two decades before the tragedy involving the Heaven’s Gate cult; for that matter also Orthodox and Heterodoxy, Second Edition, by Archpriest Michael S. Damick explores in detail in a tone much less polemical than the controversial first edition the difference between Orthodoxy and most other religious perspectives both within Christianity and outside of Christianity).

Thus your post has the interesting attribute in that it does not respond to any point I actually made in the post; rather it constitutes an anti-Charismatic/Pentecostal tract, and the fact you fired it off at me is … concerning, because it suggests you looked at my post, saw the word “Pentecost” and my remarks about the deity of God the Holy Spirit and then went, hmm, this man is a Pentecostal, and so dispatched an anti-Charismatic tract in my direction, which is … ridiculous, since I’ve never advocated for that particular form of Christianity, which you would know had you been paying attention to my posts.

In particular, nothing I said in my last reply to you has anything whatsoever to do with Charismatic practices, instead being focused precisely on the issue of the time of day when the Spirit descended on the disciples on Pentecost according to Acts chapter 2.

Also, did you write that tract yourself? If not, please provide a URL to the source where you found that material.
 
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ARBITER01

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It was the angels who did the interpreting. The "rushing mighty wind and the cloven tongues of fire" were simply angels. Peter was doing the talking and the angles interpreted.

Lol,......

There's always that one person on here who tries to glean from scripture what the gifts are about and then thinks they can teach others about them without having any experience in them. It's like a person that reads a book on rocket science and then thinks they are a professional at it.

Book knowledge has never been good enough,....

Heb 5:13 For every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the word of righteousness; for he is a babe.

- Original: ἄπειρος
- Transliteration: Apeiros
- Phonetic: ap'-i-ros
- Definition:
1. inexperienced in, without experience of
- Origin: from G1 (as a negative particle) and G3984
- TDNT entry: None
- Part(s) of speech: Adjective

- Strong's: From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3984; inexperienced that is ignorant: - unskillful.

The gift of tongues always requires the gift of the interpretation of tongues to understand it.

Angels,...... hahahahahaha
 
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The Liturgist

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Lol,......

There's always that one person on here who tries to glean from scripture what the gifts are about and then thinks they can teach others about them without having any experience in them. It's like a person that reads a book on rocket science and then thinks they are a professional at it.

Book knowledge has never been good enough,....

Heb 5:13 For every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the word of righteousness; for he is a babe.

- Original: ἄπειρος
- Transliteration: Apeiros
- Phonetic: ap'-i-ros
- Definition:
1. inexperienced in, without experience of
- Origin: from G1 (as a negative particle) and G3984
- TDNT entry: None
- Part(s) of speech: Adjective

- Strong's: From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3984; inexperienced that is ignorant: - unskillful.

The gift of tongues always requires the gift of the interpretation of tongues to understand it.

Angels,...... hahahahahaha

Oh, I did not even notice that; I was so shocked at being the recipient of an anti-Charismatic screed that I did not realize he was attributing the descent of God the Holy Spirit to … angels, which is completely, totally wrong (I suppose the dove that descended on Christ at His Baptism was also angels?)

I mean good heavens, you and I may disagree on a number of issues but on this point we are in lockstep (that being, that that was the Holy Spirit on Pentecost and not angels).

It even says as much in the Scriptural text.
 
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The Liturgist

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@Bro.T please let us know whether or not you believe the Holy Spirit is God, together with the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ, one God abiding in three persons, the Holy Trinity, as confessed in the Nicene Creed.

Because while I am not a Charismatic or Pentecostal Christian and the polemic you fired in my direction was totally inapplicable (especially since my last reply to you concerned the hour at which the Holy Spirit descended on Pentecost, which you had attempted to assert was at night following sunset, rather than in the morning), since you now appear to be claiming the Holy Spirit did not descend on the Apostles at Pentecost, if I’m reading your uncited unsourced tract correctly, that indicates you might well be one who disagrees with the the deity of the Holy Spirit.
 
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