Sabbath Keeping and The Gospel

SabbathBlessings said:

Interesting, it sound like what God said....

Eze 20:16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

You are isolating just one of her writings and stripping it from the context.

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There’s more. Some has already been posted including her warning about the mark of the beast.

Hentenza said:

From EG White writings.

“This is the work that we are called upon to do. From the pulpits of the popular churches it is proclaimed that the first day of the week is the Sabbath of the Lord; but God has given us light, showing us that the fourth precept of the decalogue is as verily binding as are the other nine moral precepts. It is our work to make plain to our children that the first day of the week is not the true Sabbath, and that its observance after light has come to us as to what is the true Sabbath, is idolatry, and in plain contradiction to the law of God. In order to give them instruction in regard to the claims of the law of Jehovah, it is necessary that we separate our children from worldly associations and influences, and keep before them the Scriptures of truth, by educating them line upon line, and precept upon precept, that they may not prove disloyal to God.

Fundamentals of Christian Education
To the Students at Battle Creek College
-PG​

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Yeah according to Ellen White the SDA shouldn’t be teaching Christians to keep the sabbath because the odds are that they will most likely be sent to the lake of fire for rejecting it when if they would’ve remained ignorant about it they would’ve been saved. So every time the SDA preach about the sabbath to Christians they’re flipping a coin in regards to their salvation only the odds aren’t 50/50 since 98% of Christians reject Ellen White’s theology.

Its amazing that this doesn't cause anyone to re-think their position, this is God speaking, not EGW- God Himself related profaning the Sabbath as idol worship.

Eze 20:16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

Its cost a whole generation of entering their promise rest and lost their inheritance.

No wonder why we are told plainly not to follow in their rebellion, disbelief and disobedience, if we hear His voice Heb3:7-19 because we still have to enter our promise land Rev22:14

Instead we are too busy telling God what He deems as moral or not, as if idol worship has ever been moral and not doing what God deems as justice and righteous Isa 56:1-2 is.

Guess it will get sorted out in God's time.

SabbathBlessings said:

Its amazing that this doesn't cause anyone to re-think their position, this is God speaking, not EGW

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It is EGW not God.

SabbathBlessings said:

Eze 20:16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

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You once again ignore the context and audience of Ezekiel 20.

“Now in the seventh year, in the fifth month, on the tenth of the month, men from the elders of Israel came to inquire of the Lord, and they sat before me. Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Son of man, speak to the elders of Israel and say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Do you yourselves come to inquire of Me? As I live,” declares the Lord God, “I certainly will not be inquired of by you.” ’ Will you judge them, will you judge them, son of man? Make known to them the abominations of their fathers; and say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “On the day when I chose Israel and swore to the descendants of the house of Jacob and made Myself known to them in the land of Egypt, when I swore to them, saying, I am the Lord your God, on that day I swore to them, to bring them out from the land of Egypt into a land that I had selected for them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all the lands. But I acted for the sake of My name, that it would not be defiled in the sight of the nations among whom they lived, in whose sight I made Myself known to them by bringing them out of the land of Egypt. So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, which, if a person follows them, then he will live by them. Also I gave them My Sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, so that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them. But the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness. They did not walk in My statutes and they rejected My ordinances, which, if a person follows them, then he will live by them; and they greatly profaned My Sabbaths. Then I resolved to pour out My wrath on them in the wilderness, to annihilate them. But I acted for the sake of My name, so that it would not be defiled before the eyes of the nations, before whose eyes I had brought them out. Also I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all the lands, because they rejected My ordinances, and as for My statutes, they did not walk in them; they also profaned My Sabbaths, because their heart continually followed their idols.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭20‬:‭1‬-‭6‬, ‭9‬-‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

These verses are directed SPECIFiCALLY and ONLY to the house of Israel. Nothing in these verses are directed at anyone else including future Christians.

SabbathBlessings said:

Its cost a whole generation of entering their promise rest and lost their inheritance.

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Of Israelites not of Christians.

SabbathBlessings said:

No wonder why we are told plainly not to follow in their rebellion if we hear His voice Heb3:7-19

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Wrong interpretation but a reason why He had to choose “another” day.

SabbathBlessings said:

Instead we are too busy telling what what He deems as moral or not, as if idol worship has ever been moral and not doing what God deems as justice and righteous Isa 56:1-2 is.

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No. You are too busy trying to put the Christian back under the law. No thanks.

Sure, believe that Israel can profane God and go after idols, but Gentiles can do whatever we want, except 4 things that most don't even follow.

That God loves us more than everyone who sinned and came before us. Why Hebrews 4 specifically quotes their disobedience Heb4:6 and the cause of them being left out of their promised rest Eze20:15-16 and warned us of their trial and us doing the same thing by hardening our heart in rebellion Heb3:7-19 the same rebellion Eze20:13 Eze20:16 so we don't also fall because of the same example of disobedience Heb4:11. But we can always do the same thing and hope for a different result. I am not sure why anyone would if we want to serve our Lord and join ourself to Him Isa56:6

SabbathBlessings said:

Its amazing that this doesn't cause anyone to re-think their position, this is God speaking, not EGW

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It is EGW not God.

This is God speaking.....He related breaking the Sabbath with idol worship why breaking one commandment we break them all James 2:10-11 even in the NT as they are all interconnected. Replacing what God said with a voice of another.

SabbathBlessings said:

Eze 20:16 because they despised My (God) judgments and did not walk in My (God) statutes, but profaned My (God) Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

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BobRyan said:

vs 16 is not blotting out any of scripture not even ceremonial days. It is talking about "blotting out our certificate of debt". The "wages of sin" owed for transgression. It is not talking about blotting out one of the Ten commandments nor even one of the Lev 23 holy days.

His point of about "not judging" is the same one Christ brings up in Mark 7 and has nothing to do with deleting some command of God, nor even a change from something before the cross vs after. The animal sacrifices were a shadow pointing to Christ from their very start. And the Gen 2 Sabbath that Ex 20:11 directs us to, was there before any animal sacrifice ceremony

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I believe you were referring to Matthew 7 not Mark 7 and He wasn’t saying not to judge others, He was saying don’t be a hypocrite by judging others for doing things that you yourself do.

““Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What do you think the statement “first take the log out of your own eye, then you will see clearly enough to take the speck from your brother’s eye” means?

Furthermore He goes on to tell us how to identify false prophets in this passage saying “you will know them by their fruits”. He’s literally talking about judging them by their actions.

And on top of all this according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 5, the entire chapter is about judging those who are in the church who are willfully indulging in sinful behavior. So if the sabbath commandment remains intact in the New Covenant we would be obligated to judge those who are in the church who are willfully breaking that commandment which is precisely why the appointed times were removed so we wouldn’t have a bunch of Ellen White Pharisees going around judging everyone for not keeping the sabbath.

SabbathBlessings said:

Sure, believe that Israel can profane God and go after idols, but Gentiles can do whatever we want, except 4 things that most don't even follow.

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Strawman. My reply was about your incorrect use of the verses you posted not about the gentiles since the gentiles were not part of the audience of those verses.

SabbathBlessings said:

That God loves us more than everyone who sinned and came before us. Why Hebrews 4 specifically quotes their disobedience Heb4:6 and the cause of them being left out of their promised rest Eze20:15-16 and warned us of their trial and us doing the same thing by hardening our heart in rebellion Heb3:7-19 the same rebellion Eze20:13 Eze20:16 so we don't also fall because of the same example of disobedience Heb4:11. But we can always do the same thing and hope for a different result. I am not sure why anyone would if we want to serve our Lord and join ourself to Him Isa56:6

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Addressed already.

SabbathBlessings said:

Sure, believe that Israel can profane God and go after idols, but Gentiles can do whatever we want, except 4 things that most don't even follow.

That God loves us more than everyone who sinned and came before us. Why Hebrews 4 specifically quotes their disobedience Heb4:6 and the cause of them being left out of their promised rest Eze20:15-16 and warned us of their trial and us doing the same thing by hardening our heart in rebellion, the same rebellion Eze20:13 Eze20:16 so we don't follow in their same path of disobedience Heb4:11. But we can always do the same thing and hope for a different result. I am not sure why anyone would if we are want to serve our Lord Isa56:6

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Nope that’s just you misrepresenting our position again in an attempt to deceive others about what we actually believe thru false accusations. And the last statement in Hebrews 3 quotes their unbelief. And the very next word which is the first word in chapter 4 is “Therefore”. So yeah unbelief results in disobedience.

“And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

SabbathBlessings said:

So now I am convinced you do not read my posts or Scriptures presented.

Exo 19:8 The people all responded together, “We will do everything the Lord has said.” So Moses brought their answer back to the Lord.

God spoke directly to them the Ten Commandments Exo20:1-17 the law of God Exo20:6 and add no more Deut5:22

Moses wrote another law.....the law of Moses that was placed besides the ark Deut31:24-26 which is what Exo 24 is speaking of. The Ten Commandments that God wrote was inside the ark of God's covenant and it still is Rev11:19

If you don't read my posts and don't read the Scriptures that I have posted that answers all of these questions by Scripture, I do not see the point of continuing. This has been a pattern for a while now, and its not fruitful. If we are not interested in what God's Word really says, I personally do not see the point of a continued discussion.

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Exodus 19 was before the 10 commandments were given, wasn’t it? So where do they make the oath to keep the 10 commandments? Please show me where they made that oath.

tall73 said:

• It seems in your interpretation of Acts 21 you take issue with James, and with Paul going along with the proposal.

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How so? Is it a LAW of God that a man must make a "Vow"? Will you answer my questions?

Here is what I am seeing. The religious philosophy of this world that exists in the world God placed me in, and the Pharisees, which were the mainstream religion of the world God placed Paul in, are accusing Paul of "teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place"., and that Paul "teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs."

But Paul defended himself as to this accusation.

Acts. 24: 10 Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself: 11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship. 12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, "believing all things" which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Now to believe the Philosophy of this world in Paul's time and mine, I would have to believe Paul is lying to Felix, but the Jews who wanted to kill Paul, who stoned Stephen and crucified Jesus are telling the truth.. I would have to take the Pharisees, and the mainstream preaching that exists in my world's word over Paul's. What would be the incentive to do such a thing?

Where does Paul teach anywhere that parents shouldn't circumcise their 8 day old child? Here is what Paul actually said; "For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision."

Even Moses knew that his Glory would be done away with, replaced by the Glory of Christ. I know this because I heard Moses tell me in Duet. 18. And again you seem to assume that the Jew's customs and traditions were God's Laws.

But according to EVERY WORD Jesus spoke defining the Jews Religion, this popular belief is untrue.

So no, I do not take issue with James or Paul. I am simply pointing out a perspective that takes into account all of the Holy Scriptures, apart from the doctrines and traditions of the religions of the World God placed me in. No different than Paul did when he argued against the mainstream preachers of his time. No different than Jesus did, when He contended with the mainstream preachers of His Time. No different than John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah etc., as they are recorded contending with the mainstream preachers of their time.

Shall we not consider these things? Or should I follow the tradition of the Jews in Christ's Time, and just blindly follow the religions of this world God placed me in, regardless of Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God? Isn't this the choice we all must make?

tall73 said:

• Is that accurate? Did you agree with James and Peter in Acts 15? You seem generally to think, if I am understanding correctly, that Paul was led of God. But then you seem to suggest he was led astray in Acts 21. Why?

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You are not understanding my post, I know Paul was led by God, and no, my post doesn't suggest that Paul was led astray.

I don't believe the implications of modern religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting, that God treats people according to the DNA they were born with, and if a man isn't born with Jewish DNA, then the only limitations he is to place on his Free will is "that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."

And I come to this understanding, by considering all of Paul's teaching, and all of Jesus' teaching and everything written in the Law and Prophets, as opposed to selecting this sentence, separating it from the rest of the Bible, then creating doctrines based on these words alone.

tall73 said:

• By your standard we can't really trust anyone's voice in religious matters, because they might seem to promote God's law but really be undercutting it. Perhaps by that logic I should be suspicious of you. In which case I can only go by what I see in God's word.

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That isn't "MY" standard. It is God's Standard that I have adopted. It is Jesus "of the Bibles" Standard. Here are His Words.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take" heed that no man deceive you. 5 For "many" shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and "shall" deceive many.

You can see here in your own Bible that Jesus isn't warning about Islam here, or Buddhism, or Atheists or even satanists. He is warning about religious voices "who profess to know the God of Abraham". Men who call Him Lord, Lord, or as Paul warns, men who "Transform themselves into Apostles of Christ". From the beginning of the Bible, to the end we are warned about our choices concerning who we "Yield ourselves servants to obey"..

I advocate that we don't adopt the religious views of any "voice" other than God's, rather as Paul teaches, that "we present our bodies" (Voluntary humility) a living sacrifice, "holy, acceptable unto God", which is our reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world (It's religions, Yes?) but be transformed by the renewing of our mind, that we may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We are warned over and over and over and over and over and over about the "other voices" in the world God placed us in. Voices who professes to know God and even quotes some of God's Word to justify disobedience to God.

This is simply undeniable Biblical Truth.

The religions of this world that God placed you and I in, teach that those who would yield themselves servants to obey God, are blind and ignorant. That God's Laws are a Yoke of Bondage HE places on the necks of men who place their trust in Him. And the only way to be free from the Bondage God's Laws represent, is to break them, "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Break them) "then" your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

I don't believe this is the Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible". It is a gospel, but not Christ's in my view

tall73 said:

I am not asking these questions to be difficult. I still don't understand your position very well as to what you actually think folks should do, think, believe, etc.

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I think you would be better served spending your time seeking to understand God's Words, to seek to know what God wants men to do, think, eat, drink, believe etc.

That is what I advocate. My discussion with you is concerning popular religious philosophy that existed in this world God placed us in. Jesus told me, when I pondered the same questions you asked of me;

Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first "the kingdom of God, and his righteousness"; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I'm happy to share my understanding of Scriptures, but as Paul said, man must be "fully convinced in his own mind", because belief is of the heart, not the lips.

SabbathBlessings said:

So now I am convinced you do not read my posts or Scriptures presented.

Exo 19:8 The people all responded together, “We will do everything the Lord has said.” So Moses brought their answer back to the Lord.

God spoke directly to them the Ten Commandments Exo20:1-17 the law of God Exo20:6 and add no more Deut5:22

Moses wrote another law.....the law of Moses that was placed besides the ark Deut31:24-26 which is what Exo 24 is speaking of. The Ten Commandments that God wrote was inside the ark of God's covenant and it still is Rev11:19

If you don't read my posts and don't read the Scriptures that I have posted that answers all of these questions by Scripture, I do not see the point of continuing. This has been a pattern for a while now, and it’s not fruitful. If we are not interested in what God's Word really says, I personally do not see the point of a continued discussion.

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Deuteronomy 31 has nothing to do with Exodus 24. The word Deuteronomy literally means SECOND LAW. That’s not what Moses was writing in Exodus 24, you’re talking about 40 years later in a completely different place. Exodus 24 takes place at Mt Sinai, Deuteronomy 31 takes place 40 years later in Moab.

“In the third month after the sons of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, on that very day they came into the wilderness of Sinai.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭19‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“These are the words which Moses spoke to all Israel across the Jordan in the wilderness, in the Arabah opposite Suph, between Paran and Tophel and Laban and Hazeroth and Dizahab. It is eleven days’ journey from Horeb by the way of Mount Seir to Kadesh-barnea. In the fortieth year, on the first day of the eleventh month, Moses spoke to the children of Israel, according to all that the Lord had commanded him to give to them,”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

40 years later in a completely different place.

BNR32FAN said:

Nope that’s just you misrepresenting our position again in an attempt to deceive others about what we actually believe thru false accusations. And the last statement in Hebrews 3 quotes their unbelief. And the very next word which is the first word in chapter 4 is “Therefore”. So yeah unbelief results in disobedience.

“And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

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This was not quoted directly to you and yes there are many people who beleive exactly what I said, so no false accusations from my side.

You also seem to be refusing to allow the Bible to define what their rebellion was Eze20:13 what kept them out of the promised land of rest Eze20:15-16 what we are told not to follow in the same example of disobedience Heb4:11 if we hear His voice Heb3:7-19

BNR32FAN said:

Deuteronomy 31 has nothing to do with Exodus 24. The word Deuteronomy literally means SECOND LAW. That’s not what Moses was writing in Exodus 24, you’re talking about 40 years later in a completely different place. Exodus 24 takes place at Mt Sinai, Deuteronomy 31 takes place 40 years later in Moab.

“In the third month after the sons of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, on that very day they came into the wilderness of Sinai.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭19‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“These are the words which Moses spoke to all Israel across the Jordan in the wilderness, in the Arabah opposite Suph, between Paran and Tophel and Laban and Hazeroth and Dizahab. It is eleven days’ journey from Horeb by the way of Mount Seir to Kadesh-barnea. In the fortieth year, on the first day of the eleventh month, Moses spoke to the children of Israel, according to all that the Lord had commanded him to give to them,”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

40 years later in a completely different place.

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Exo 24 was when Moses started writing in the book of the law. Deut 31:24-26 is the completed copy 40 years later.

Still doesn't say Moses wrote the Ten Commandments in the Book because God wrote them Exo31:18 and they were never placed outside the ark, according to God but inside Exo 25:16 Exo40:20 and I beleive still is Rev11:19 because God's standard of righteousness Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-2 never change Psa 119:142, its the foundation of His Throne. Psa 89:14 and what we will all be accountable for His words John12:48, James 2:11 Mat5:19-30 Rev11:18-19

But beleive as you wish, I am OK agreeing to disagree, its best I move on but wish you well.

SabbathBlessings said:

This was not quoted directly to you and yes there are many people who beleive exactly what I said, so no false accusations from my side.

You also seem to be refusing to allow the Bible to define what their rebellion was Eze20:13 what kept them out of the promised land of rest Eze20:15-16 what we are told not to follow in the same example of disobedience Heb4:11 if we hear His voice Heb3:7-19

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No I simply included disbelief as the cause of their disobedience which you left out. I didn’t leave out disobedience, did I? And I quoted where both disbelief and disobedience were mentioned.

BNR32FAN said:

Why do you point out that Paul preached in the synagogues every sabbath but you don’t point out that Paul preached everyday? Please show me where he was gathering together with believers on the sabbath. In every passage that mentions him preaching in the synagogues on the sabbath he was preaching to unbelievers, that much is absolutely clear because they mention him preaching to Jews and Proselytes reasoning with them and persuading them. And as for Constantine all he did was close the stores and businesses on Sunday so people could worship. The Edict of Milan didn’t change the day of worship because there were pagans worshipping different gods every day of the week that’s why every day of the week is named after a different pagan god. What the Edict of Milan did was made every religion legal which ended the persecution of Christians but Christians had been worshipping on Sunday for over 200 years before Constantine was even born according to Ignatius of Antioch, Tertullian, Iranaeus, and Justin Martyr. So the Edict of Milan didn’t change anything that wasn’t already taking place hundreds of years before Constantine was born. And just to be clear I’ve never said that there’s anything wrong with worshipping on the sabbath, my only problem with people in this thread is that they’re accusing those of us who don’t observe the sabbath as being disobedient and breaking God’s commandments when Paul made it perfectly clear that we are no longer obligated to observe any of the appointed times anymore. So when someone tells me that they worship on Saturday I say that’s great it’s good to worship God on the sabbath, but when someone accuses me of breaking God’s commandments because I don’t observe the sabbath then I have a problem with that and I feel compelled to explain exactly why I don’t observe the sabbath by quoting scripture.

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No one is requesting you to observe the Sabbath and it is between you and God how you interpret his Word..

Hentenza said:

Read the works of EG White and the belief of a good portion of SDAs that those that rest of Sunday are sinning and in danger of being lost.

Check out this thread.

Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

I’ve had several people that keep the sabbath argue that the sabbath is a moral commandment, therefore, those that do not worship on Saturday are sinning and consequently living in sin. The poll is self explanatory. If you choose maybe please post why. Be blessed.

www.christianforums.com

Of course that is part of the argument.

Nope. Never said that. What I said was that the 10 were repeated into Jesus two love commandments and for the 4th commandment Jesus is our rest. Funny how misunderstanding happens.

Bunk. My answer to this verse has always been which commandments to which I reply Jesus two love commandments. I am a devoted Christ follower so I would appreciate you not bearing false witness against me.

The 4th commandment is not a moral commandment but a ceremonial commandment and it was given to Israel not to the Christian church. In the Christian church Christ is our rest.

Yep. We both have the same Bible. These are two commandments from which all of the law and the prophets hang from.

He did fulfill them. He completed them. The law remains in effect for unbelievers to realize that they need a savior. The Christian believer is not under the law (see Galatians).

Right. Answer above.

Right. That is Jesus two love commandments not the 613 commandments of the Mosaic law.

If what you posted above is your usual I’m not surprise that you would not agree with me and that’s ok with me. But I will always fight legalism.

Human factor. But Jesus is powerful enough to take care of His church.

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As is your God-given right to believe as you choose, to interpret his scripture as you believe.

And I say again the church's divided on so many things.

Bye

BNR32FAN said:

No I simply included disbelief as the cause of their disobedience which you left out. I didn’t leave out disobedience, did I? And I quoted where both disbelief and disobedience were mentioned.

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Heb 3:7-19 indicates unbelief rebellion sin and disobedience are all used interchangeably

Heb4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

We are free to hear His voice and make corrections Heb 3:7-19 or continue on in the same path. Eze20:13 Eze20:15-16 we still have our rest to enter into the Promise Land Rev22:14 There is no rebellion to God's commandments in His rest, just peace and righteousness Isa 48:18

The Liturgist said:

It is judgemental when you say that someone who declares that they do follow the fourth commandment to be not following it, simply because they do not follow it in a manner consistent with the teachings of your denomination, and a small number of others.

For my view, it seems reasonable to observe the Sabbath in the same way as St. Athanasius, who defined the 27 book New Testament canon we now use, and who also played a vital role in defining the initial version of the Nicene Creed at the Council of Nicaea, and from whose writings the hymn Quincunque Vult, also known as the Athanasian Creed, was extracted; these being essential guides to a correct understanding of the nature of Christ our God as being fully God and fully man, of one essence with the Father, part of the Trinity together with the Holy Spirit.

Of course many people like to make false statements about the Council of Nicaea, for example, the allegation that Nicaea tried to suppress worship on the Sabbath, which is not the case (the only edict pertaining to days of the week, among other things, being Canon 20, which proscribed prostrations on Sundays and during the Pentecost, that is to say, from Pascha until Pentecost), and also the adoption of the Paschalion, which is of course based on the fact that our Lord rose on the First Day, but which did not abolish the Sabbath.

By the way, were you aware that the majority of worship services on the Seventh Day are held by Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches? What is more, far from trying to change the Sabbath to Sunday, the RCC changed the Latin word (and thus the words in all Latin-derived languages still spoken, from Catalan to Corsican, Spanish to Sicillain, Italian to Portuguese, French to Romanian) from Dies Saturni to Sabato. So, clearly they did not do a very good job if their intention was, as some claim, to suppress worship on the Sabbath.

Of course from an Orthodox Christian perspective the annoyance from this line of argumentation stems from the false claim that the Council of Nicaea was particular to the Roman Catholic Church, when only two legates out of the 318 Holy Fathers present at Nicaea were from Rome and the Western church, the majority of bishops being Eastern Christians who are now members of the Greek and Cypriot Orthodox churches, the Antiochian Orthodox Church, the Syriac Orthodox Church and the Coptic Orthodox Church (I can’t recall if any delegates from the newly converted churches in Ethiopia or Georgia were present, but there was one Armenian, St. Aristakes; it should be noted that Edessa (a city state in Mesopotamia), Armenia, Ethiopia and Georgia were the only countries that had at the time of Nicaea even made Christianity their state religion - in Rome it had been legalized, but would not be imposed until the decree of St. Theodosius in 380 AD, Cunctos Populos, also known as the Edict of Thessalonika, which firmly established Christianity as the religion of the Empire while banning Paganism and the Arian heresy (Arians being those who denied the Incarnation, more specifically the deity of Christ and His co-eternity, coequality and consubstantiality with God the Father (and also by extension, the doctrine of the Holy Trinity) - every Roman Emperor after the death of St. Constantine was an Arian until St. Theodosius came to power, with the exception of Julian, who embraced Neo-Platonist Paganism, but who ironically actually wound up helping the cause of Christianity by releasing St. Athanasius from exile, allowing him to return to Alexandria; rather than causing chaos, this was a moment of healing and unity for Christians across the Empire, who had been aggressively persecuted by Arian heretics.

The irony therefore is that the Council of Nicaea did not seek to ban worship on the Saturday; its concern, Arianism, being rather more important, and the actual persecution inflicted by Rome on Christians in the Fourth Century was persecution by Arians who denied the deity of Christ (but there exists no evidence to suggest either the Arians or Christians were analogous in their beliefs to Sabbatarians).

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No it is not judgmental when one sees scripture any Scripture differently than another but if you think it is continue to do so.

Believe is you choose interpret as you choose that is the right God gave you and whatever you believe is between you and God.

Bye

SabbathBlessings said:

God tells us the Sabbath is a holy convocation Lev23:3 He wants us coming together to worship Him in one body Isa 56:6-7 much like the apostles did Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 Acts 15:21

There are a lot of Sabbath-keeping churches here is a list someone came up with. I am an Adventist and love my church, we usually meet for Sabbath school first and than church service. You don' t have to go to Sabbath school and just church service, but I really love both.

A Partial List of 7th Day Assemblies

1st Chronicles of the Living God Ministries Inc 11th Hour Apostolic Sabbatarian Church 7th Day Bible Church 7th Day Church of God A Church of God Ministry A Congregation in St. Louis Aaronic Order (House of Aharon) Abiding Faith In Truth Church Inc. Abunda Life Church Active Bible Church of God...

www.christianforums.com

God bless!

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In Houston we have or had seven Seventh Day Evangelist Churches that was listed. I don't attend them regularly but I have attended Sabbath services from time to time.

And I add Doug Batchelor if he were here in Houston, I would attend every Sabbath. He is in excellent teacher and I make sure I listen to him every Sunday when he is aired.

truthuprootsevil said:

In Houston we have or had seven Seventh Day Evangelist Churches that was listed. I don't attend them regularly but I have attended Sabbath services from time to time.

And I add Doug Batchelor if he were here in Houston, I would attend every Sabbath. He is in excellent teacher and I make sure I listen to him every Sunday when he is aired.

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Pastor Doug is my old pastor when I lived in CA. He had a huge influence on me reclaiming my faith. When I moved it took me a long time to find the right church but I finally did and love it. It’s much smaller SDA church, but can be a good thing sometimes. I still listen to Pastor Doug. Keep praying God will guide you to the right church! I love my church family.