Why is the extreme issue with ICE only in one state?

stevevw said:

You can't help yourself can you.

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We saw it happen.
From multiple angles.
And the regime reports it as the legitimate slaying of terrorists!

Yet for the life of me, I cannot see ONE thing they did that was actually ILLEGAL (on the day) - let alone worthy of summary execution.

eclipsenow said:

We saw it happen.
From multiple angles.
And the regime reports it as the legitimate slaying of terrorists!

Yet for the life of me, I cannot see ONE thing they did that was actually ILLEGAL (on the day) - let alone worthy of summary execution.

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Looks like you have already made up your mind.

eclipsenow said:

We saw it happen.
From multiple angles.
And the regime reports it as the legitimate slaying of terrorists!

Yet for the life of me, I cannot see ONE thing they did that was actually ILLEGAL (on the day) - let alone worthy of summary execution.

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FreeinChrist said:

The original videos were not fake. There was no reason to execute Alex Pretti that day. The domestic terrorists that day was ICE.

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With Pretti there was a struggle with multiple officers and someone yelled he had a gun in the struggle. Many of us are waiting for the results of the investigation. Shooting Ashli Babbitt, an unarmed woman going through a window thirty feet away, who posed no threat to the officer, was an execution.

Valletta said:

With Pretti there was a struggle with multiple officers and someone yelled he had a gun in the struggle.

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Looked more like a beatdown from cops to me.

Valletta said:

Many of us are waiting for the results of the investigation.

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The investigation is being killed.

Valletta said:

Shooting Ashli Babbitt, an unarmed woman going through a window thirty feet away, who posed no threat to the officer, was an execution.

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Give up this off-topic fantasy.

I don't understand, actually, why ICE is in Democrat led states at all. IT was Republican led states who were SO desperate for them to clean up their state. Texas had 2.1 million illegals. Minnesota had 130,000.

It's almost like...none of this is REALLY about making America safer or making America feel safer.

FreeinChrist said:

I saw what happened. And I saw Alex step between an ICE agent who had pushed a woman down in order to help here. Then he was attacked and disarmed and then shot in the back 3 times then shot 7 more times.


And to Ashli Babbitt, she was with a mob that broke into the Capitol and was threatening to enter the area where the House meets. That was still being evacuated.
AND DON'T spread an untruth! 30 feet away ?!?! More like one foot away.! She was trying to vault through a window when Capitol Police were just on the other side telling the mob no!

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Actually the policeman looked like he was hiding. And it was from quite a distance, you should watch the video for yourself. Being an unarmed woman in part of a group that is at a distance does not justify killing her.

FreeinChrist said:

No, he wasn't hiding. And protesters were calling that 'he has a gun'.

She was committing a crime, an actual crime. She was part of a mob that broke into the Capitol and headed to the Senate and House chambers with plans to disrupt the official certification of the race that Trump lost. They were at it for quite a while.
She ignored the shouted directions of the police and was going to climb through a window against police. Too bad she did not listen.

And no, it was not from 'quite a distance.' She collapsed right in front of the doors .
Look again:

She was right up against the windows and door.
NOT 30 feet away.

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You don't know that she was there to interrupt the challenge to the votes. That is an assumption. She was not within reach of the police officer, he was on the other side and nailed her as she was trying to climb through a window. Quite different than Pretti in close contact, and Pretti had a gun while she was unarmed. Pretti was impeding federal law enforcement, a crime. In just about any other jurisdiction that officer would have been charged with a crime.

Valletta said:

You don't know that she was there to interrupt the challenge to the votes. That is an assumption.

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While we can't read her mind, that is certainly not correct. No Trump supporter was "there to interrupt the challenge to the votes". At minimum the "protestors" at the Capitol were there either to "support the challenge to the count" or "interrupt the count". The challenge was the thing they wanted (at minimum). That goes for every attendee at the Ellipse rally to those who breached the Capitol armed for battle.

Valletta said:

She was not within reach of the police officer, he was on the other side and nailed her as she was trying to climb through a window.

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I'm glad you recognize that Babbitt was trying to climb through a window when she was shot, but I think you get the tactical usage of a handgun very wrong. Handguns are short range, non-contact weapons. The whole point of them is that the provide protection at a stand-off distance greater than the reach of threat with non-firearm weapons. Something like 10-30 feet is the ideal range. Too far away for the threat to directly attack you (or take your gun) and close enough to hit the right target.

More importantly, the purpose of his use of the firearm was not *personal protection* or the protection of his fellow officers (the usual reason to own and use a handgun, especially for "civilians"). The officers in the Speaker's Lobby were protecting a *space* and the people inside it. I think we need the floor plan:



This event took place around the House Chamber on the south end of the Capitol's main (second) floor. The chamber is the large room on the left. The first breach occurred at 2:12 on the lower level of the Senate (north) wing. At 2:30 the House went into recess and started to evacuate and a crowd of "protestors" had built up at the main entrance at the back of the chamber (on the right side of the chamber). The crowd had passed through the Rotunda and then Statuary Hall. With the crowd building and their failure to gain access to the chamber as they repeatedly exclaimed, a group of them broke to the left and traveled around the chamber. About 20, including Babbitt, ended up in the corridor outside the Speaker's Lobby.

On the left of the chamber there is a narrow, unlabeled room (the Speaker's Lobby) next to the rooms labeled H-214, H-213, and H-212. On either side (east and west) there are doors to a corridor with a stairs to the lower floor. The House chamber was evacuated through the Speaker's Lobby to the west side and down the stairs. The east side was barricaded and USCP officers stood ready in protection of the room and its occupants.

As the last persons were still exiting the Chamber and the Speaker's Lobby, the splinter group from the mob arrived outside the east doors of the Speaker's lobby. The officers protecting the outside of the Lobby called for support from a "tactical team" and withdraw from their position between the rioters and the doors (a gap about 2 feet wide). With the last obstacle removed, several rioters break through the windows in the doors with flagpoles and a helmet. At least one USCP officer in the Speaker's Lobby draws his weapon and aims at the breaches. One rioter notices the drawn weapon calling out a full 10 seconds before the shot is fired. After this warning is shouted, Ms. Babbitt climbs up to go through the window. Then she is shot.

The anticipated backup arrives moments later and the crowd (which was just a splinter group of an ad hoc angry mob, and not a planned attack to breach the chamber) dispersed.

Valletta said:

Quite different than Pretti in close contact,

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CBP officers make contact with Pretti, then assault him, not the other way around.

Valletta said:

and Pretti had a gun while she was unarmed.

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Both Babbitt and Pretti were armed and neither had pulled their weapons when they were shot. He had a pistol in the back of his pants (tucked into his waistband?), she had a folding knife in her backpack.

Valletta said:

Pretti was impeding federal law enforcement, a crime.

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The weird thing is that there is not obvious law enforcement action going on in the scene before his shooting.

Valletta said:

In just about any other jurisdiction that officer would have been charged with a crime.

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LOL.

I really wish this was a "debate" between "most cop shootings are good" and "most cop shootings are bad" instead of the politically coded version where of the two "protestors" one "left coded" and the other "right coded"

I can't be abolutely certain, but I'd bet good money that no one on that Minneapolis street was thinking about the shooting of Ashli Babbitt that Saturday morning. The two police shootings are not related, so can we now stop the pointless references to Ms. Babbitt in this thread?

rambot said:

I don't understand, actually, why ICE is in Democrat led states at all. IT was Republican led states who were SO desperate for them to clean up their state. Texas had 2.1 million illegals. Minnesota had 130,000.

It's almost like...none of this is REALLY about making America safer or making America feel safer.

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I don't exactly feel safer.


And it looks like Massachusetts may be next.

-- A2SG, lucky us.....

A2SG said:

I don't exactly feel safer.

And it looks like Massachusetts may be next.

-- A2SG, lucky us.....

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Home of the Patriots, huh?
We’ll find out!

Pommer said:

Home of the Patriots, huh?

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Pretty much, yeah. John and Samuel Adams were from here, as were Paul Revere and John Hancock, among others. I wonder how they'd feel about how ICE is representing the government they helped create.

Pommer said:

We’ll find out!

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Lucky us.

-- A2SG, guess it was just a matter of time, Massachusetts being so close to the border and all.....