NY Fed report says Americans pay for almost all of Trump's tariffs, water is wet

essentialsaltes · Tuesday at 3:11 PM

The Case for Trump’s Tariffs

Combined with tax cuts and deregulation, they’ll ensure that America’s economy booms again.

By
John [I'm a billionaire in the Epstein Files] Paulson

Trump donor who criticized offshoring to close Ohio plant and move work to China

Workers decried John Paulson’s plan after billionaire painted himself as advocate for domestic manufacturing

John Paulson, a hedge fund billionaire and one of Donald Trump’s earliest Wall Street backers, is planning to offshore an Ohio manufacturing plant to China despite heavy pushback from employees.

Conn Selmer, the largest US manufacturer of brass and orchestra instruments, told the union it planned to offshore most work at its Eastlake, Ohio, plant to China by the end of June 2026, eliminating 150 jobs.

United Auto Workers (UAW) Local 2359, which represents the 150 employees, said workers were informed of the closing when it first sat down to bargain over their new union contract last month.

[UAW local pres] Hines said offshoring the brass plant would be deeply offensive to workers after Paulson painted himself as an advocate for domestic manufacturing.

“To go publicly on CNBC to support the Trump administration’s positive views on tariffs and all that stuff, and then you turn around and [say you] want to go send the work right over to China,” Hines said. “It’s a slap in our face.”

Bradskii · Tuesday at 3:14 PM

Aldebaran said:
This thread is about tariffs. And water, apparently. Please keep up.

You don't seem to know what my argument is (regarding the effects of tariffs on manufacturing).

Aldebaran said:
One of many examples that dispel your argument.

Throwing out limp rebuttals to something that hasn't been argued is a waste of bandwidth. Can I suggest that you go back and read what I wrote and check the links that I gave you?

Bradskii · Tuesday at 3:16 PM

essentialsaltes said:
The Case for Trump’s Tariffs
Combined with tax cuts and deregulation, they’ll ensure that America’s economy booms again.
By
John [I'm a billionaire in the Epstein Files] Paulson

Trump donor who criticized offshoring to close Ohio plant and move work to China
Workers decried John Paulson’s plan after billionaire painted himself as advocate for domestic manufacturing

John Paulson, a hedge fund billionaire and one of Donald Trump’s earliest Wall Street backers, is planning to offshore an Ohio manufacturing plant to China despite heavy pushback from employees.

Conn Selmer, the largest US manufacturer of brass and orchestra instruments, told the union it planned to offshore most work at its Eastlake, Ohio, plant to China by the end of June 2026, eliminating 150 jobs.

United Auto Workers (UAW) Local 2359, which represents the 150 employees, said workers were informed of the closing when it first sat down to bargain over their new union contract last month.

[UAW local pres] Hines said offshoring the brass plant would be deeply offensive to workers after Paulson painted himself as an advocate for domestic manufacturing.

“To go publicly on CNBC to support the Trump administration’s positive views on tariffs and all that stuff, and then you turn around and [say you] want to go send the work right over to China,” Hines said. “It’s a slap in our face.”

But eggs are cheaper, so we can apparently ignore that.

Aldebaran · Tuesday at 3:23 PM

Bradskii said:
You don't seem to know what my argument is (regarding the effects of tariffs on manufacturing).

Throwing out limp rebuttals to something that hasn't been argued is a waste of bandwidth. Can I suggest that you go back and read what I wrote and check the links that I gave you?

Bradskii said:
But eggs are cheaper, so we can apparently ignore that.

So it is about eggs after all?
Now you know why I am talking about it. They're a major part of the American diet, and contribute to the cost of food in general. As for tariffs, they can be produced here in the good 'ole USA, which means we save on tariffs. How is that not a win?

Hentenza · Tuesday at 3:27 PM

essentialsaltes said:
……..Water is wet.

Not that I like Trump but I’m tired of all the anti Trump threads. I much rather debate the above from the title of this thread. Here is AI’s take on it.

“Whether water is "wet" is a subject of debate, largely depending on the definition of "wetness" used. Technically,
many scientists argue that water is not wet, but rather the agent that makes other materials wet, as wetness is defined by a liquid adhering to a solid surface. Conversely, if "wet" is defined as being covered in water molecules, then water is wet.

Arguments for Water Not Being Wet:

Interaction, Not State:
Wetness describes the interaction between a liquid and a solid surface, not a property of the liquid itself
.
- Cohesion vs. Adhesion: While water molecules adhere to solid surfaces (making them wet), they mostly exhibit cohesion (sticking to each other) within a body of water.
- Definition: Water is the substance that causes the sensation of wetness.

Arguments for Water Being Wet:

Molecular Interaction: Individual water molecules are surrounded by and "covered" by other water molecules, which fits the definition of being wet.
Common Definition: If "wet" simply means "made of liquid or moisture," then water is wet.

In short, while water makes surfaces wet, it is not considered "wet" itself in many scientific definitions of the term, as it is a liquid, not a solid experiencing the, often, cooling sensation of moisture.“

essentialsaltes · Tuesday at 3:32 PM

Aldebaran said:
So it is about eggs after all?

Not really.

Aldebaran said:
Now you know why I am talking about it.

You're talking about it because egg prices were artificially high because of avian flu in the US, but it has precious little to do with tariffs.

Aldebaran said:
As for tariffs, they can be produced here in the good 'ole USA

They are already largely produced in the US. Even when Trump increased the importation of foreign eggs last year in an attempt to get prices down, the total amount was less than 1% of total US production.

AI

- Total Volume: As of June 2025, the U.S. had imported over 26 million dozen shell eggs and 14 million dozen egg products (in shell-egg equivalents).
- Context: These imports are designed to bolster supply against domestic shortages, where 2024 production was roughly 109 billion-with-a-b eggs.

Prior to the 2025 spike, imports were generally low, for example, totaling only 15 million dozen in 2020, according to Statista.

Bradskii · Tuesday at 3:39 PM

Aldebaran said:
Now you know why I am talking about it.

Yes. Because you know Trump lied about the 'millions' of manufacturing jobs he was going to create by using tariffs and you'd rather talk about something else than address that reality.

Aldebaran · Tuesday at 3:40 PM

Bradskii said:
Yes. Because you know Trump lied about the 'millions' of manufacturing jobs he was going to create by using tariffs and you'd rather talk about something else than address that reality.

What makes you think he lied?

Bradskii · Tuesday at 3:45 PM

Aldebaran said:
What makes you think he lied?

Oh, good grief...do us both a favour and stop this nonsense.

Aldebaran · Tuesday at 8:54 PM

Bradskii said:
Oh, good grief...do us both a favour and stop this nonsense.

What nonsense? I'm simply attempting to engage you in the conversation regarding something that you said. Shall I not address the content of your own post?

Bradskii · Tuesday at 11:13 PM

Aldebaran said:
What nonsense? I'm simply attempting to engage you in the conversation regarding something that you said. Shall I not address the content of your own post?

This is what he said: Trump pledges sweeping tariffs, says they will keep jobs in US

"We're putting America first," Trump said. "This new American industrialism will create millions and millions of jobs."

That wasn't the truth. We know that because it didn't happen, isn't happening right now and will not happen. For umpteen reasons that I can't be bothered to repeat (I'm certain that you've heard them all) because you'd just hand wave them away. And not only has he not created them, you are going backwards: NEW DATA: During Trump’s First Year, the Manufacturing Industry Lost 108,000 Jobs - NEW DATA: During Trump’s First Year, the Manufacturing Industry Lost 108,000 Jobs - United States Joint Economic Committee

'...the manufacturing industry lost 108,000 jobs during the first year of President Trump’s second term. This new estimate shows that the manufacturing sector has lost even more than the 68,000 jobs that the Bureau of Labor Statistics previously estimated.'

When are you guys going to wake up and see what's happening? How long can you keep denying the undeniable? Nobody admits admitting that they were wrong. But one gets to a point where not doing so seems almost perverse.

Pommer · Tuesday at 11:31 PM

Bradskii said:
This is what he said: Trump pledges sweeping tariffs, says they will keep jobs in US

"We're putting America first," Trump said. "This new American industrialism will create millions and millions of jobs."

That wasn't the truth. We know that because it didn't happen, isn't happening right now and will not happen. For umpteen reasons that I can't be bothered to repeat (I'm certain that you've heard them all) because you'd just hand wave them away. And not only has he not created them, you are going backwards: NEW DATA: During Trump’s First Year, the Manufacturing Industry Lost 108,000 Jobs - NEW DATA: During Trump’s First Year, the Manufacturing Industry Lost 108,000 Jobs - United States Joint Economic Committee

'...the manufacturing industry lost 108,000 jobs during the first year of President Trump’s second term. This new estimate shows that the manufacturing sector has lost even more than the 68,000 jobs that the Bureau of Labor Statistics previously estimated.'

When are you guys going to wake up and see what's happening? How long can you keep denying the undeniable? Nobody admits admitting that they were wrong. But one gets to a point where not doing so seems almost perverse.

Coming down on “meh” on this one.
When you “‘change things’ for the better”, there’s going to be a lag-time while the markets figure out how to react. Two years is about the right amount of time to see the effects of this sized sea-change. (Things like employment might take a hit “at first”, this should be expected and is “normal”).

Whether or not Trump’s changes are wise is largely left-to-be-seen.
He might end up doing a profound amount of “good” overall, testing the resolve of the Institutions of our Democratic Republic and helping us see where legislative and ethical standards need to be tightened.

Oh I’m just an old softee, but should the NIH (under RFK Jr) actually “cure cancer”, I’ll gladly brag “but at least he ‘cured cancer’!”

Bradskii · 2026-02-18T00:28:54-0600

Pommer said:
Coming down on “meh” on this one.
When you “‘change things’ for the better”, there’s going to be a lag-time while the markets figure out how to react.

Therein lies the problem. Companies that might have thought of opening or increasing manufacturing in the US have absolutely no idea what the situation is going to be in a month from now. Let alone 2 or 3 years. I'm being serious when I say that Trump has no idea either. There is no long term plan. It's all act and react on a weekly basis. If a company is going to invest big bucks then it needs some clarity as to what the future holds. That's simply not available.

Plus the fact that other countries are already realigning with other states. Forming new alliances. The US can't be trusted to be a long term ally. Good grief, look what's happening to your neighbour and good friend Canada. They're looking to China now. Trump is even trying to stop them using a bridge they built!

There's a line in Springsteen's My Home Town: 'These jobs are going boys, and they ain't coming back.' That sums up large scale manufacturing, not just in the US, but everywhere.

Pommer · 2026-02-18T01:21:04-0600

Bradskii said:
Therein lies the problem. Companies that might have thought of opening or increasing manufacturing in the US have absolutely no idea what the situation is going to be in a month from now. Let alone 2 or 3 years. I'm being serious when I say that Trump has no idea either. There is no long term plan. It's all act and react on a weekly basis. If a company is going to invest big bucks then it needs some clarity as to what the future holds. That's simply not available.

Right, markets hate uncertainty. Trump is “President Uncertainty”. But they still have to make “pro-Trump” noises if they don’t want to garner his scrutiny.

Bradskii said:
Plus the fact that other countries are already realigning with other states. Forming new alliances. The US can't be trusted to be a long term ally. Good grief, look what's happening to your neighbour and good friend Canada. They're looking to China now. Trump is even trying to stop them using a bridge they built!

Pro-US allies try to stock up on electronics, since that’ll be the weak-link, once that move it made, it’ll (ironically enough), stabilize things until they “have enough” to ride out an electronics-embargo.

Plants will be built in record time…in locations where ICE is (currently) buying up real estate, to pump out all sorts of Apple products for only a few hundred dollars more!

Bradskii said:
There's a line in Springsteen's My Home Town: 'These jobs are going boys, and they ain't coming back.' That sums up large scale manufacturing, not just in the US, but everywhere.

We could go back to a manufacturing economy. It’d be rough, but we could do that.

Aryeh Jay · 2026-02-18T03:26:38-0600

Bradskii said:
There's a line in Springsteen's My Home Town: 'These jobs are going boys, and they ain't coming back.' That sums up large scale manufacturing, not just in the US, but everywhere.

It must have been terrible to see the Democrats destroying the economy and sending the good jobs overseas. Amnesty for millions of illegals! The inflation too! If only we had a good, loyal, proud to be an American Republican President, all that would have never happened.

Aldebaran · 2026-02-18T14:15:28-0600

Bradskii said:
This is what he said: Trump pledges sweeping tariffs, says they will keep jobs in US

"We're putting America first," Trump said. "This new American industrialism will create millions and millions of jobs."

That wasn't the truth. We know that because it didn't happen, isn't happening right now and will not happen. For umpteen reasons that I can't be bothered to repeat (I'm certain that you've heard them all) because you'd just hand wave them away. And not only has he not created them, you are going backwards: NEW DATA: During Trump’s First Year, the Manufacturing Industry Lost 108,000 Jobs - NEW DATA: During Trump’s First Year, the Manufacturing Industry Lost 108,000 Jobs - United States Joint Economic Committee

'...the manufacturing industry lost 108,000 jobs during the first year of President Trump’s second term. This new estimate shows that the manufacturing sector has lost even more than the 68,000 jobs that the Bureau of Labor Statistics previously estimated.'

When are you guys going to wake up and see what's happening? How long can you keep denying the undeniable? Nobody admits admitting that they were wrong. But one gets to a point where not doing so seems almost perverse.

As I said, it's not immediate. Be patient. Or move to another country where instant gratification is the rule rather than the exception.

Aldebaran · 2026-02-18T14:21:03-0600

Bradskii said:
Therein lies the problem. Companies that might have thought of opening or increasing manufacturing in the US have absolutely no idea what the situation is going to be in a month from now. Let alone 2 or 3 years. I'm being serious when I say that Trump has no idea either. There is no long term plan. It's all act and react on a weekly basis. If a company is going to invest big bucks then it needs some clarity as to what the future holds. That's simply not available.

Why would things change to be worse in 3 years? Is that what the "democratic" plan is?

Bradskii said:
Plus the fact that other countries are already realigning with other states. Forming new alliances. The US can't be trusted to be a long term ally. Good grief, look what's happening to your neighbour and good friend Canada. They're looking to China now. Trump is even trying to stop them using a bridge they built!

It takes two to Tango.

Bradskii said:
There's a line in Springsteen's My Home Town: 'These jobs are going boys, and they ain't coming back.' That sums up large scale manufacturing, not just in the US, but everywhere.

Democrat-backed unions, and the past allowing of other countries to tariff our products while our government did not mandate the same in return had a lot to do with that; causing our products to cost much more to buy, which also caused manufacturing to go overseas. President Trump is now correcting that.

Elongated · 2026-02-18T14:29:32-0600

Two things can be true at the same time:
1. Water is wet
2. A tariff imposed by the US is paid by the importer. Therefore it is a tax paid by anyone buying the product or material in America.

Bradskii · 2026-02-18T15:08:33-0600

Aldebaran said:
As I said, it's not immediate.

So when he said it was all going to happen immediately - the drops in prices, the end of the Ukrainian war - where were you contradicting him then? When he said in his last term, that he'd bring 'millions and millions' of manufacturing jobs back, where was the balanced arguments from you countering that? When the employment figures have actually gone down, did you argue against them or willingly accept them as part of this great master plan?

Trumps polling is in the toilet. More and more people are realising that he has no plan. Less and less people are falling for his lies. You'll have the biggest wake up call of your life come the mid terms. And yet there'll still be a small minority saying 'No, wait. It's not going to happen overnight!'

Bradskii · 2026-02-18T15:25:48-0600

Aldebaran said:
It takes two to Tango.

Are you having a small joke to brighten up my morning? Was that sarcasm? It's common courtesy to end a sarcastic comment with [/s] because it's so difficult today to tell if someone is being serious or not. I'll assume, because of the galactic amount of evidence to the contrary, that you are not.

Aldebaran said:
Democrat-backed unions, and the past allowing of other countries to tariff our products while our government did not mandate the same in return had a lot to do with that; causing our products to cost much more to buy, which also caused manufacturing to go overseas. President Trump is now correcting that.

By increasing tariffs, so what you need to manufacture goods now costs you a lot more. Meanwhile, countries like Canada and the UK and huge economic zones like the EU are making plans with China and India and South America. Even Japan, who are having a lot of problems with China at the moment, increased their trade to China by 17% in January. And Trump just did a deal with Japan and dropped tariffs on their cars. Gee, I thought he was trying to protect US car manufacturing. And here he is ensuring that Japanese cars are cheaper to buy.

You are reaping what Trump has sown. And it's going to take a very long time for you to repair the damage. Starting from the moment when you actually realise the hole you're in. As it is at this moment, Trump is still digging.

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NY Fed report says Americans pay for almost all of Trump's tariffs, water is wet

Fact-Based Lifeform

The Case for Trump’s Tariffs​

Combined with tax cuts and deregulation, they’ll ensure that America’s economy booms again.​

Trump donor who criticized offshoring to close Ohio plant and move work to China​

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The Case for Trump’s Tariffs​

Combined with tax cuts and deregulation, they’ll ensure that America’s economy booms again.​

Trump donor who criticized offshoring to close Ohio plant and move work to China​

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