Firstlightdawn
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How many times do I have to tell you I have DONE the MATH myself.
Exactly, nice talking to you.
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How Long have Humans Lived on Earth?
- Thread starter Dale
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Firstlightdawn
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Both books talk about the "generations" that are a big part of Genesis.
1. Genesis 2:4
“These are the generations of the heavens and the earth…” The creation account’s transition into human history.2. Genesis 5:1
“This is the book of the generations of Adam…” Adam’s line through Seth.3. Genesis 6:9
“These are the generations of Noah…” Noah’s character and the flood narrative.4. Genesis 10:1
“These are the generations of the sons of Noah…” The Table of Nations.5. Genesis 11:10
“These are the generations of Shem…” Shem’s line down to Abram.6. Genesis 11:27
“These are the generations of Terah…” The family of Abram, Nahor, and Haran.7. Genesis 25:12
“These are the generations of Ishmael…” Ishmael’s descendants.8. Genesis 25:19
“These are the generations of Isaac…” The story of Jacob and Esau begins.9. Genesis 36:1
“These are the generations of Esau (that is, Edom)…”10. Genesis 36:9
“These are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites…” A second toledot for Esau, focusing on chiefs and clans.11. Genesis 37:2
“These are the generations of Jacob…” The Joseph narrative.
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The Barbarian
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No, that won't work. God said that Adam would die the day he ate from the tree. But physically, he lived on for many years thereafter. If God is truthful, that death wasn't a physical death.
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o_mlly
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So you believe Adam is still physically alive?
... it is only about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden that God said, ‘You shall not eat it or even touch it, or else you will die.’”
(Gen 3:3)
All the translations of Gen 3:3 that I could find do not have the words "the day". Which translation are you using?
A doctor tells his patient, "The day you stop eating you will die from starvation." The next day the patient is still alive. Did the doctor lie?
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The Barbarian
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God said that Adam would die the day he ate from the tree. But physically, he lived on for many years thereafter.
Douay:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat. For in what day soever thou shalt eat of it, thou shalt die the death.
KJV:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
New Revised Standard Edition Catholic Version:
Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”
Why not just accept what God says?
God says that Adam lived on physically for many years and then died. I believe Him. You should, too.
Gen 3:3 is Eve talking. Gen 2:17 is God's word to Adam.
Douay:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat. For in what day soever thou shalt eat of it, thou shalt die the death.
KJV:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
New Revised Standard Edition Catholic Version:
Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”
Why not just accept what God says?
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o_mlly
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? Adam is physically dead.
Of course, we hope that Adam is awaiting his resurrection but he is now quite dead just as God told him he would be if he ate the forbidden fruit. I believe in a God that cannot deceive or be deceived. You should too.
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lismore
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Hello Dale. On the other hand I know of a church that is teaching theistic evolution and all the young people have left. Telling people what they want to hear doesn't always make you popular. God Bless You
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The Barbarian
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God says that Adam lived on physically for many years and then died. I believe Him. You should, too.
If you'll admit that much, why not admit everything God says?
Then why won't you believe him about this? God said that Adam would die the day he ate from the tree. But physically, he lived on for many years thereafter. If God is truthful, that death wasn't a physical death.
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The Barbarian
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A person won't go to hell for being a YEC. Most of them are no less Christians than the rest of us. But the real damage YEC does, is driving people away from His Church.
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The Barbarian
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Well, let's take a look...
The problem is, you won't believe Him.
If the doctor told a patient, "in the day that you stop eating, you will die of starvation." That would be false. No one dies in the day they stop eating. It takes weeks. Your (perhaps accidental) deletion of the preposition in changed the meaning.
1. In as preposition
As preposition, it covers range of meanings: inside a container, place, or area; into something; during a period of time; inclusion within a group or category; wearing or covered by something; and more. Like all prepositions, it is followed by a noun phrase.Why not just accept God's word as it is?
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Free2bHeretical4Him!
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I simply cannot understand why people insist on man “having“ a soul, as though it were a separate part of him. Perhaps it is required to make their theological paradigms fit their narrative taught to them by orthodoxy?
”And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.“
Genesis 2:7 ASV
Genesis 2:7 (ASV) - And Jehovah God formed man of the d | YouVersion
And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
bible.com
”And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.“
Genesis 2:7 NKJV
Genesis 2:7 (NKJV) - And the LORD God formed man of the | YouVersion
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
bible.com
”And Jehovah God formeth the man — dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.“
Genesis 2:7 YLT98
Genesis 2:7 (YLT98) - And JEHOVAH God formeth the man — d | YouVersion
And JEHOVAH God formeth the man — dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.
bible.com
Just let God mean what He says and form our theology/narrative around that, and we would probably all find ourselves on more common ground.
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o_mlly
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Sorry, cherry picking translations does not help you in your misinterpretation.
From the USCCB commentary on Gen 2:17:
[2:17] You shall die: since they do not die as soon as they eat from the forbidden tree, the meaning seems to be that human beings have become mortal, destined to die by virtue of being human. Genesis, CHAPTER 2
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The Barbarian
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The Barbarian
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Why not just accept God's word as it is?
Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”
I'll go with God's opinion. Notice that God acknowledges that man was not created immortal, and even expresses concern that he might become so,
Genesis 3:22 And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.
From God's word:
Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”
I'll go with God's opinion. Notice that God acknowledges that man was not created immortal, and even expresses concern that he might become so,
Genesis 3:22 And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.
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o_mlly
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No. We have a body but we are not a soul. Catholics profess that the human beings are by nature a composite of body and soul.
CCC# 365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form" of the body: 234 i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.
234 Council of Vienne 1311-1312 A.D. In order that all may know the truth of the faith in its purity and all error may be excluded, we define that anyone who presumes henceforth to assert defend or hold stubbornly that the rational or intellectual soul is not the form of the human body of itself and essentially, is to be considered a heretic.
Council of Vienne 1311-1312 A.D. - Papal Encyclicals
The general council of Vienne was summoned by pope Clement V with the bull Regnans in caelis, which he had written on 12 August 1308 at Poitiers.
www.papalencyclicals.net
Would you like to learn more about the essential relationship of matter and form?
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o_mlly
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No that is not God's opinion; that again is only your mistaken opinion. Catholics believe we were created immortal. Note that 3:22 reads "is become" indicating a change has occurred since Adam's creation.
From the USCCB commentary in Post #93 "... that human beings have become mortal, destined to die by virtue of being human."
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The Barbarian
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I don't think you understand what Catholic doctrine teaches about this...
From the Catechism:
363 In Sacred Scripture the term “soul” often refers to human life or the entire human person. But “soul” also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him, that by which he is most especially in God's image; “soul” signifies the spiritual principle in man.
The term has two meanings in Sacred Scripture, and I think you've conflated them here into one meaning. The soul, as pointed out, is the "innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him, that by which he is most especially in God's image" as well as the entire person. This is why God says that man became a living soul, not that he was given a living soul.
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The Barbarian
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Well, let's take a look...
INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION
COMMUNION AND STEWARDSHIP:
Human Persons Created in the Image of God*
COMMUNION AND STEWARDSHIP:
Human Persons Created in the Image of God*
"While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5-4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution. While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage. However it is to be explained, the decisive factor in human origins was a continually increasing brain size, culminating in that of homo sapiens. With the development of the human brain, the nature and rate of evolution were permanently altered: with the introduction of the uniquely human factors of consciousness, intentionality, freedom and creativity, biological evolution was recast as social and cultural evolution."
Doesn't seem so. None of this is contrary to the idea that there were two original ancestors of all humans on Earth today, my thought is that they were able to potentially live forever by God's gift of the Tree of Life in the Garden, and once that was closed to them, immortality was closed to them as well, as God says in Genesis 3.
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There are 2 deaths
Although they did not fall down dead immediately, the act of eating the fruit fundamentally altered their existence from immortal to mortal on that day.
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